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When any newer player starts playing Leagues, items are really confusing and obnoxious. Not because they are tricky at all, but because you just have to know what is considered efficient and memorize what they all do.
I though I'd just throw out a quicky reference guide to allow less familiar players to start actually thinking and building their champ as needed instead of just mindlessly following a guide. The game is much more fun when you control the itemization.
This guide is intended to be very simple, so people can just tab in needing a defensive item and look to see what could be good. I am only pointing out more basic item choices, just trying to get newer players some idea of good builds. If I don't mention an item, it is probably a much more unconventional and situational pick, whereas this guide is designed to let people just go to a category and pick an item and have it turn out solid.
BOOTS:
+ Show Spoiler + Berserkers Greaves: Buy these if your damage is based on attack speed, and if they dont have a ton of stuns (if they do you might want Merc Treads). Mercury's Treads: Buy these if you are more tankish, or if you are fragile and really need to avoid specific disables. If in doubt, get these, you cannot go wrong with them and they are considered by most as the best boots in the game. Sorcerers Shoes: Buy these if you are AP and are mostly concerned with max damage. Ionian Boots of Lucidity: Buy these if you are mostly concerned with CD's that you wish you could spam. Mostly bought on support to allow more heals or on manaless champs. Ninja Tabi: Alternate tanky boots to merc treads, their main benefit is their low cost. Buy if you need to tank physical damage and need boots fast. Boots of Swiftness: DON'T BUY THESE. Community opinion is that they are very cost and slot inefficient.
MANA REGEN:
+ Show Spoiler + Doran's Ring: Buy this if you need mana and are AP. You can buy up to 3 if you want more regen. Also provides a nice buffer of health against burst damage and ganks. Philosopher's Stone: Buy this if you need mana but are not an AP. It gives gold so buy it earlygame if you are going to buy it. Chalice of Harmony: Buy this if you REALLY need mana and cant seem to get a blue buff from your jungler. I mean REALLLY need mana. If you do really need that mana though, it can be really good.
AP DAMAGE:
+ Show Spoiler + Rabadon's Deathcap: Buy this on pretty much every AP if you need pure damage. Rod of Ages: Buy this if you need less damage but also need a little bit of tankyness, such as if you have short range. Abyssal Scepter: Buy this if you need mostly damage and a bit of defense from magic and at least someone else on your team will benefit from the MR reducing aura. Rylai's Crystal Scepter: Buy this if you need tankyness and if you have some single target spells. Best if they have several melee champs without gap closers. Will of the Ancients: Buy this if you have another mage that will benefit from the aura, or if you have enough health to not die in one burst and need survivability, or if you are getting into poke wars. Void Staff: Buy this if important targets are getting high MR (~90) Athene's Grail: Buy this if you got a chalice early, or need lots of mana and some cooldown reduction.
AD DAMAGE:
+ Show Spoiler + Infinity Edge: Buy this if you need pure damage, usually on AD carrys. Bloodthirster: Buy this if you need pure damage and some sustain. Wit's End: Buy this if you need attack speed and a bit of tankyness. Extremely common on melee AD, ranged will usually buy Phantom Dancer so they can kite better. Phantom Dancer: Buy if you need attack speed and your survival depends on kiting or chasing. Ranged AD almost always buy one. Needs to be comboed with a damage item. Trinity Force: Buy this if you need tankyness and damage (you are probably a bruiser), and you have damage skills with short CD's to proc bonus damage. Atma's Impaler: Buy this if you are tanky damage (probably melee) and have over 2k health. The more health you have the better. Last Whisper: Buy this if important targets are approaching 200armor. Wriggles Lantern: Buy this if you need sustain and a ward for your lane. If you dont really need armor or the ward just buy a Vampiric Sceptre for sustain.
DEFENSIVE:
+ Show Spoiler + Randuin's Omen: Buy this if you need health and Armor and they have more than one autoattacker you want to shut down (which pretty much every team does). Remember to use the active ability. Buy Heart of Gold early and get money then build this. Warmogs: Buy this if you need pure health, buy it earlier so you have time to charge it up. Frozen Heart: Buy this if you have some health already and need armor, and they have more than one champ who relys on autoattacks primarily. Also great if CDR is needed on important skills. Force of Nature: Buy if you need MR. Do not buy if you dont have any health to back up the MR. Guardian Angel: Buy this if you are carrying hard and need to avoid dying. Best if you have some sort of ability that you can use to get out of the thick of things after reviving. Banshee's Veil: Buy this if they have a powerful AP who can ruin your day in one spell. Or just need more magic damage survivability. Spirit Visage: Buy this if you need a small survivability boost in midgame and have some sort of self heal (big lifesteal/heal). Frozen Mallet: Buy this if you need the slow to help your team catch someone or to slow down melee's with no gap closer trying to get to your teams squishies.
SUPPORT/UTILITY:
+ Show Spoiler + Shurelya's Reverie: Buy this, its really good on anyone who isnt pure damage. Remember to use the active. Buy Philo stone early for money then build into this. Aegis of Legion:Buy this on anyone who isnt pure damage who will be taking a few hits, earlier you get it the better it is. Zekes Herald: Buy this if you have several autoattackers. Locket of the Iron Solari: Buy this as soon as early teamfighting at dragon starts, so you can use the HP5 in lane and the active. Also just good lategame. Quicksilver Sash: Buy this if you are squishy and cannot afford to be disabled at all. Remember to use it.
STARTING ITEMS:
Top:
+ Show Spoiler +Boots 3 Healthpots: Go this if you will benefit from staying at range (if you have some ranged harass), or to avoid skillshots. This is an all around good start with good sustain and power, if you arent sure what to start, start boots3.
Regrowth Pendant 1 Health Potion: Go this if you arent as worried about just getting jumped on and dying early, maybe there will just be a bit of harass from both champs in lane. You probably wont go this unless you are planning on building a very fast Philo Stone to get gold and mana you need in lane.
Cloth 5 Health Potions: Go this if you are going to be extremely heavily harassed in lane.
After starting items, Top's will commonly pick up one or more rarely two GP5 items (Philo Stone and Heart of Gold), then maybe pick up a sustain item such as Wriggles or Vamp Sceptre if they don't have built in sustain and need it. Stacking one to three Dorans Blades is also common on more aggressive tops. Maybe they will buy either a Brutalizer for a bit of midgame damage boost, or spirit visage form a midgame survivability boost.
Mid:
+ Show Spoiler +Boots 3 Healthpots: just do it, especially if they have skillshots you need to dodge.
After Starting items, Mids will commonly stack one or two (sometimes three) Doran's rings for mana regen/buffer health/lane presence with AP, before starting their first big item (usually Rabadons Deathcap or Rod of Ages). If you are planning on getting a Rod Of Ages, you will probably skip most or all of the rings and instead rush to buy a Catalyst as fast as possible.
Bot AD:
+ Show Spoiler +Dorans Blade: Buy this if you have a healing support
Boots 3 Healthpots: Buy this if you have a non healing support, you need those potions to stay in lane.
After Starting items, AD bots will commonly stack one to three Dorans blade to allow lane presence and easy last hitting. A Vampiric Sceptre is very commonly bought as well to allow for more sustain, and you can also buy a Wriggles instead of the Dorans if you really need sustain. After this, AD will typically try to farm to either Infinity Edge or Bloodthirster, then pick up a Phantom Dancer.
Bot Support:
+ Show Spoiler +Faerie Charm 2 Sight Wards Vision Ward 1Health Pot: Ward your lane and the bush if neccesary, pay attention to their support, and use your vision ward to clear their ward and allow for a nice gank.
After Starting Items, supports will typically try to rush and buy a Philosophers Stone and a Heart of Gold as fast as possible (along with basic boots) to get some sort of income (as they wont be last hitting creeps). The most important thing is to maintain ward coverage over the lane and dragon at all times. After GP5's, support will move on to buying aura items such as Shurelyas Reverie/Aegis of Legion/Zekes etc.
Jungle
+ Show Spoiler +Jungle starts are usually either Cloth Armor 5 Healthpots, Vampiric Sceptre, Regrowth Pendant, or Boots3HealthPots. These starts are heavily champion and rune specific, so consult a real jungle guide for you champion, which should explain why a certain start is better than others.
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You should add a section on early item buys for each role. IE dorans stacks, gp10, wriggles, ect.
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On April 11 2012 04:23 Two_DoWn wrote: You should add a section on early item buys for each role. IE dorans stacks, gp10, wriggles, ect.
oh yeah I was gonna do that but I forgot
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I think for newer players it's better to always get RoA before Dcap on the vast majority of AP's. Many newer players don't know how to manage mana, so it's better to start with a big mana pool and shrink it, especially when you are unlikely to get blue any time during lane phase.
EDIT: Also Potions. Wards and stuff optional, because gold is unlikely to be in excess.
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Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list.
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On April 11 2012 04:33 Sabin010 wrote: Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list.
Like I said, I would only go mobility on maybe Twitch/Shaco and Sion, very niche conditional pick so I left them off the list.
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Few more thoughts:
You should make the priority of boots Mercs>everything else. I always start off in the position where I assume I will need mercs and move on from there if there arent enough stuns to justify the purchase.
Move Mallet ahead of Mogs. Mallet is the better buy in nearly every circumstance now.
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I think you should put tear of the goddess in mana regen item. Maybe it's just me, but I always buy that if I'm going to use a lot of mana abilities. I agree that the items it transition into are kinda poor though
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On April 11 2012 04:41 Two_DoWn wrote: Few more thoughts:
You should make the priority of boots Mercs>everything else. I always start off in the position where I assume I will need mercs and move on from there if there arent enough stuns to justify the purchase.
Move Mallet ahead of Mogs. Mallet is the better buy in nearly every circumstance now.
I disagree on the Mallet vs Mogs. Mogs is flat out tank and mallet is actually more offensive. With Mallet you are paying 250 more gold for an eventual 570 less health. Thats a lot of health. For a newer player with bad team coordination the slow effect you really pay for on Mallet is going to be used less and less effectively.
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On April 11 2012 04:55 Diks wrote: I think you should put tear of the goddess in mana regen item. Maybe it's just me, but I always buy that if I'm going to use a lot of mana abilities. I agree that the items it transition into are kinda poor though
I'm not adding Tear, Its a good idea on maybe Karthus, Anivia, Ryze, and can be built controversially on like 2 other champs. It leads to a very weak early game and the last thing I want to encourage starting players to begin getting is tear on every mid because ONE THOUSAND MANA.
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You do need to add chalice though.
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On April 11 2012 05:29 Two_DoWn wrote: You do need to add chalice though.
I guess I'll add chalice considering how poorly blue is allocated in low level games, also I like chalice.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
Black Cleaver Buy when playing with Shyvana/Taric? :p
For starting items for Bot AD I would always recommend Boots3pots, and Dblade only if you're with Soraka. Boots3pots just lets you be so much more mobile in comparison, and the pots gives you much more room for error, which is essential in soloqueue.
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On April 11 2012 05:38 3 Lions wrote: Black Cleaver Buy when playing with Shyvana/Taric? :p
For starting items for Bot AD I would always recommend Boots3pots, and Dblade only if you're with Soraka. Boots3pots just lets you be so much more mobile in comparison, and the pots gives you much more room for error, which is essential in soloqueue.
Dblade gives you much more room for error CSing though, which is also pretty important. Hell, look at all the pro Ad's running damage reds.
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On April 11 2012 04:38 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 04:33 Sabin010 wrote: Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list. Like I said, I would only go mobility on maybe Twitch/Shaco and Sion, very niche conditional pick so I left them off the list.
Jungle Alistars also often get these. You can get them on supports with roaming potential too when the situation calls for roaming. But I guess they are still kind of specific, just like TF and AP Ezreal must build a Lichbane, while it isn't really core for anyone else.
I would however put Zhonyas into the AP item list. Amazing item, players should learn that.
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Couple things. Regarding your solo top starting items you said "Sheen is a common early item in Champions that will use it in lane and to build Trinity Force." That's not exactly true. If a champion wants Triforce, the most common item that they'll get is Phage. I wouldn't ever go Sheen before Phage on my solo top bruisers. In fact, off the top of my head the only solo top champ that I would ever get Sheen before Phage on is Poppy.
Also, it's not as common, but if you plan on getting Wriggles opening cloth5 on AD bot isn't completely unheard of/bad. I know M5 did that a few times at IEM.
Additionally, Frozen Heart is also extremely good on bruisers that want CDR but don't want to go too far out of their way to itemize for it. Zhonyas should be in the AP items list. Frozen Mallet should also trump Warmogs. Part of the reason why you don't see many Warmogs builds nowadays is because after the nerf, Frozen Mallet is almost always a more useful pickup than Warmogs.
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LW's breakeven point against PD is about 200 armor once you get a IE and PD in terms of DPS. I wouldn't even consider it until two targets got 200 armor.
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On April 11 2012 06:58 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 04:38 sob3k wrote:On April 11 2012 04:33 Sabin010 wrote: Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list. Like I said, I would only go mobility on maybe Twitch/Shaco and Sion, very niche conditional pick so I left them off the list. Jungle Alistars also often get these. You can get them on supports with roaming potential too when the situation calls for roaming. But I guess they are still kind of specific, just like TF and AP Ezreal must build a Lichbane, while it isn't really core for anyone else. I would however put Zhonyas into the AP item list. Amazing item, players should learn that.
Lich core on Fizz too, but like you said its situational compared to the stuff I have up.
Zhonyas I also left off because its actually pretty rare when you think about it, we just see it alot because the champs that run it get a ton of tourney play. Who would you commonly buy Zhonyas on other than Morg/Kennen and maybe Swain/Fiddle.......Vlad? Thats pretty uncommon.
On April 11 2012 07:02 Ryuu314 wrote: Couple things. Regarding your solo top starting items you said "Sheen is a common early item in Champions that will use it in lane and to build Trinity Force." That's not exactly true. If a champion wants Triforce, the most common item that they'll get is Phage. I wouldn't ever go Sheen before Phage on my solo top bruisers. In fact, off the top of my head the only solo top champ that I would ever get Sheen before Phage on is Poppy.
Also, it's not as common, but if you plan on getting Wriggles opening cloth5 on AD bot isn't completely unheard of/bad. I know M5 did that a few times at IEM.
Additionally, Frozen Heart is also extremely good on bruisers that want CDR but don't want to go too far out of their way to itemize for it. Zhonyas should be in the AP items list. Frozen Mallet should also trump Warmogs. Part of the reason why you don't see many Warmogs builds nowadays is because after the nerf, Frozen Mallet is almost always a more useful pickup than Warmogs.
Yeah, I removed that bit. The only champ I play who I build Tri on is Nasus and Fizz who I would build sheen first.
The Warmogs Mallet thing, like I said earlier I don't think they are tremendously overlapping items. Warmogs gives a huge amount more health and Mallet obviously a bit of AD and the slow. I think people just got turned off mogs after the tiny nerf. Warmogs is still very gold efficient.
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This is a good idea for a guide! I know I would have benefited a lot from this as a starting player. A few things to possibly include: - waiting for a 4th pot w/ boots opening in top lane - using the starting gold mastery (iirc the pink ward opening needs 1 point, so if it does you should mention that, but i'm not very sure) - alternate support openings (i often go for 4 wards in passive lanes against aggressive brush control supports like alistar) - more generally, thinking about what stats your champion scales with. i think reading navi's riven guide made my overall item choices better even on other champs because i started thinking more about what stats synergize the best with the champion's kit (i.e. favoring resists over health on champions with shields or heals, favoring AD and crit on champions with AS steroids)
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As a low-level noob still learning, this looks like a good place to throw out an item build question. Ok, so I often play range AD champs going bot (being low level there's almost never a support). I have been opening with DB but I think I'll go with boots + 3 heals from now on. I will usually get 2-3 DBs, boots (Berserker's), then Zeal and then either IE or BT (liked BT for the sustain but I see now that IE is probably better to get first to get more damage).
So the question is: should I finish Zeal into PD before moving on to IE, should I keep doing what I've been doing, or should I skip Zeal and get IE first and then make a PD? This applies to intermediate items in general, should you finish one build at a time or is it sometimes a good idea to make a partial build, move onto another build and then come back to finish it later?
Also, reading this guide makes me think I should try getting Wriggles, since nobody ever buys wards in low level games, just to have peace of mind not to get ganked from the river.
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United States37500 Posts
sob3k! This is a very good initiative. I'm wondering why we didn't have this before. :o
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United States37500 Posts
On April 11 2012 10:28 Goragoth wrote: As a low-level noob still learning, this looks like a good place to throw out an item build question. Ok, so I often play range AD champs going bot (being low level there's almost never a support). I have been opening with DB but I think I'll go with boots + 3 heals from now on. I will usually get 2-3 DBs, boots (Berserker's), then Zeal and then either IE or BT (liked BT for the sustain but I see now that IE is probably better to get first to get more damage).
So the question is: should I finish Zeal into PD before moving on to IE, should I keep doing what I've been doing, or should I skip Zeal and get IE first and then make a PD? This applies to intermediate items in general, should you finish one build at a time or is it sometimes a good idea to make a partial build, move onto another build and then come back to finish it later?
Also, reading this guide makes me think I should try getting Wriggles, since nobody ever buys wards in low level games, just to have peace of mind not to get ganked from the river.
Outside of Blade stacking, the two trends for AD atm is BF builds or Wriggle's. I only recall seeing PD rushes on Kog and that's because of his W skill. Besides him, I'd recommend you stay with BF if you're ahead in lane. Wriggle's if you got behind.
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On April 11 2012 10:35 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 10:28 Goragoth wrote: As a low-level noob still learning, this looks like a good place to throw out an item build question. Ok, so I often play range AD champs going bot (being low level there's almost never a support). I have been opening with DB but I think I'll go with boots + 3 heals from now on. I will usually get 2-3 DBs, boots (Berserker's), then Zeal and then either IE or BT (liked BT for the sustain but I see now that IE is probably better to get first to get more damage).
So the question is: should I finish Zeal into PD before moving on to IE, should I keep doing what I've been doing, or should I skip Zeal and get IE first and then make a PD? This applies to intermediate items in general, should you finish one build at a time or is it sometimes a good idea to make a partial build, move onto another build and then come back to finish it later?
Also, reading this guide makes me think I should try getting Wriggles, since nobody ever buys wards in low level games, just to have peace of mind not to get ganked from the river. Outside of Blade stacking, the two trends for AD atm is BF builds or Wriggle's. I only recall seeing PD rushes on Kog and that's because of his W skill. Besides him, I'd recommend you stay with BF if you're ahead in lane. Wriggle's if you got behind.
To clarify a little, safest bet is boots3pot, 2-3 dblades, IE, then PD. That will give you the health and sustain to stick around in lane, and has the smoothest power curve leading into a beastly lategame. PD first is situational on Vayne and Kog'Maw cause of both of their W's, BT is similarly situational, and I like going BT instead of IE on the AD's with really short range like Vayne. I normally get a vampiric scepter after my BF sword for sustain, and just sit on it until lategame, but the timing on that depends on how the lane is going and if you think you need wriggles instead of a doran's stack. Don't just get wriggles for the ward, wards are so cheap they're basically free, the most important part of wriggles over dstack or vamp stick is the armor to mitigate harass.
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Thanks for the info NeoIllusions and SpaceToaster. That's quite helpful. Coming from DotA I'm used to only support buying wards but I gather in LoL it is common for all players to buy wards, correct?
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United States37500 Posts
On April 11 2012 12:21 Goragoth wrote: Thanks for the info NeoIllusions and SpaceToaster. That's quite helpful. Coming from DotA I'm used to only support buying wards but I gather in LoL it is common for all players to buy wards, correct?
Support will buy the most wards by far but it is normal for good teams to have multiple ward buyers.
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Is there a good Newbie's Guide to LoL here or any other website? I've tried finding a good guide that explains the game, terms, and concepts of LoL, but most of them are either to basic (example: You can buy items at the shop, killing the big building in the corner wins the game) or way to complicated (uses a lot of terms that I don't understand). Is there a guide that explains builds, what categories Champions fall into, what buffs are, etc? I'm really new to LoL and I don't understand the majority of the things I read or hear from casts. x_x
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On April 11 2012 12:21 Goragoth wrote: Thanks for the info NeoIllusions and SpaceToaster. That's quite helpful. Coming from DotA I'm used to only support buying wards but I gather in LoL it is common for all players to buy wards, correct?
If I have 75 gold and a free slot after I head back, I buy a ward, regardless of my role. There's so many places to ward on SR, there's no way the Support can do it on their own.
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I'd like to see a little discussion about when you want to get pieces of different items instead of finishing one item and which pieces to prioritize. Ect. This was a very uncomfortable thing to learn for me while I was leveling up.
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Not including boots of mobility is really irking me. There's champs where it's straight up good on, usually ones who rely on getting into close-mid range to use a hard CC to open a can of whoopass on someone. Blitz, Sion, Taric, etc. It has about as many good uses as CDR boots.
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On April 11 2012 04:38 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 04:33 Sabin010 wrote: Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list. Like I said, I would only go mobility on maybe Twitch/Shaco and Sion, very niche conditional pick so I left them off the list. Mobility on every hero, es numero uno
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On April 11 2012 15:01 Terranasaur wrote: I'd like to see a little discussion about when you want to get pieces of different items instead of finishing one item and which pieces to prioritize. Ect. This was a very uncomfortable thing to learn for me while I was leveling up. There's not much to say. It's pretty much almost always the biggest item in the recipe that you want to get first.
You rush phage towards tri/mallet, belt in mogs/rylais, etc. Exceptions (off the top of my head) would be negatron and chain vest towards bv and atmas, or gp5 components. Oh and you don't need to finish negatron into fon until really late. + Show Spoiler [don't build these either :<] +
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On April 11 2012 13:14 NationInArms wrote: Is there a good Newbie's Guide to LoL here or any other website? I've tried finding a good guide that explains the game, terms, and concepts of LoL, but most of them are either to basic (example: You can buy items at the shop, killing the big building in the corner wins the game) or way to complicated (uses a lot of terms that I don't understand). Is there a guide that explains builds, what categories Champions fall into, what buffs are, etc? I'm really new to LoL and I don't understand the majority of the things I read or hear from casts. x_x There's no Newbie's guide of the kind that you're talking about, at least not to my knowledge. I do know that Neo and co. plan on releasing a series of guides detailing different roles and stuff soon*.
If you have specific questions you can always ask in the General Discussion thread or the Simple Answers thread. We're usually pretty good at answering questions.
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"Wit's End: Buy this if you need attack speed and a bit of tankyness. Extremely common on melee AD, ranged will usually buy Phantom Dancer so they can kite better."
you should change the reasoning for wits end vs phantom dancer on ranged ads. its because of crit. has nothing to do with kiting. or else you could say get pd on melees to chase better =/ ranged carries will buy mr in the form of qss.
edit: qss would make more sense in the defensive items section instead of support lol.
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On April 11 2012 15:01 Terranasaur wrote: I'd like to see a little discussion about when you want to get pieces of different items instead of finishing one item and which pieces to prioritize. Ect. This was a very uncomfortable thing to learn for me while I was leveling up.
Pieces of items that are cost efficient are good. Examples would be brutalizer, phage, hexdrinker. Brutalizer is very good/efficient, but you don't usually want to get ghostblade without some tank items first so you don't blow up(generally building glass cannon is bad except for ranged AD carries). Phage is good for the slow proc and extra health in lane, but you don't need it in mallet very quickly because you don't need the extra health that badly, nor does having 100% slow proc help you all too much in lane for what you pay early on. Hexdrinker's another example. You needed some MR to lane, but building the full MoM would mean you blow up in teamfights because of their AD/jungler's physical damage, so you built hexdrinker and then bought a chain vest to build into something else.
Also Gp10 items. General rule of thumb is if you are going to get them, do it before 15 minutes. Also delay upgrading them if you can get away with it, because that's the whole point of buying GP10.
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United States37500 Posts
On April 11 2012 13:14 NationInArms wrote: Is there a good Newbie's Guide to LoL here or any other website? I've tried finding a good guide that explains the game, terms, and concepts of LoL, but most of them are either to basic (example: You can buy items at the shop, killing the big building in the corner wins the game) or way to complicated (uses a lot of terms that I don't understand). Is there a guide that explains builds, what categories Champions fall into, what buffs are, etc? I'm really new to LoL and I don't understand the majority of the things I read or hear from casts. x_x
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166096 Somewhat out of date but has a lot of the basics you might be looking for.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 11 2012 12:21 Goragoth wrote: Thanks for the info NeoIllusions and SpaceToaster. That's quite helpful. Coming from DotA I'm used to only support buying wards but I gather in LoL it is common for all players to buy wards, correct? Supports buy almost all the wards in DotA because the number of wards is capped.
In LoL everyone buys wards because wards are infinite, and obviously having more wards is better because ward vision is OP as hell.
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Why not add a section on situational/champion dependant items. Explain why a few champs can use lichbane (fizz), manamune (blitz, corki if you are not good at mana management), sunfire (rare and only on poorly farming tanks), thornmail (rammus if they are heavy AD?) and other items that you should not get in normal cases (if ever + Show Spoiler +).
This may help new players to see why they should NOT get those items on [insert generic AD/AP/support], but why it is okay to build if you are playing a character with unusual itemisation.
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Remove regrowth+pot from top starting items. I laugh at everyone who tries this. Its HORRIBLE. Never do it, dont encourage new players to do it.
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If you're laning against an AP top with some champs who don't need the extra pots immediately but kinda want philo it's not bad at all.
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On April 11 2012 22:52 Slayer91 wrote: If you're laning against an AP top with some champs who don't need the extra pots immediately but kinda want philo it's not bad at all. True, but then again, we are talking about a list of items for new players who are probably gonna need the extra regen from pots because they are, well, not very good yet. Not to mention they arent gonna be able to diferentiate between those situations yet.
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But it's still almost no sustain and no potions, and I see so much new guys use it whoever their lane opponent is just because they have their guide where there is a philostone so they rush it. I've seen it so much as Pantheon, for example... Also stubborn people "I read it in a guide, I'll do it". I feel it's too situational to let them believe they can realistically get away with it ("yeah it's Fiora but that guide says philostone first").
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pendant + pot first is great on top laners that have great survivability but struggle with sustain without wriggles (Poppy and Singed comes to mind, Panth to a lesser degree). Its basically less immediate sustain than cloth 5, but results in faster philo and better midgame (no wriggles = 300 wasted gold on cloth).
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On April 11 2012 23:57 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: pendant + pot first is great on top laners that have great survivability but struggle with sustain without wriggles (Poppy and Singed comes to mind, Panth to a lesser degree). Its basically less immediate sustain than cloth 5, but results in faster philo and better midgame (no wriggles = 300 wasted gold on cloth).
Singed tends to eat harass and can't trade very well in his earliest levels and doing that without more than a single potion is suicide. Not sure how Poppy's early laning works well enough to say whether or not she can get away with it. When Pantheon doesn't need potions, he should probably be opening dorans blade and trucking his opponent, not buying regrowth.
The only time cloth is a wasted 300 gold is when you're against a magic-damage top lane, in which case why are you considering opening cloth5? Even if you're sitting on it for AGES and not building it into anything until you're building a frozen heart or randuins or something, it's a perfectly fine item by itself.
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On April 11 2012 16:42 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 13:14 NationInArms wrote: Is there a good Newbie's Guide to LoL here or any other website? I've tried finding a good guide that explains the game, terms, and concepts of LoL, but most of them are either to basic (example: You can buy items at the shop, killing the big building in the corner wins the game) or way to complicated (uses a lot of terms that I don't understand). Is there a guide that explains builds, what categories Champions fall into, what buffs are, etc? I'm really new to LoL and I don't understand the majority of the things I read or hear from casts. x_x http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166096Somewhat out of date but has a lot of the basics you might be looking for.
Thanks, I trying to get into LoL, but some weird errors popped up so now I have to repair. T_T
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Should catalyst be in the mana regen section? Its slightly implied by listing ROA for champions that need to get tanky but new players could end up with the impression 2-3 rings into ROA is a good idea and its probably not.
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On April 11 2012 04:38 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 04:33 Sabin010 wrote: Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list. Like I said, I would only go mobility on maybe Twitch/Shaco and Sion, very niche conditional pick so I left them off the list. Your opinion doesn't match with what many people do.
Mobility boots are common on champions like AP Sion and show up with some regularity on Jungle Alistar and Skarner. You should include the boot with an explanation on how it's used and why it's situational, not try to pretend nobody does it or that it isn't viable just because you never do it. If you aren't willing to do that much, you should leave writing guides to those who are. Objectivity is key.
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The three Dorans Ring mid is not really ONLY used as a mana regen tool, it provides hp buffer, damage and the mana regen. Something you need as a mid to survive ganks and burst damage.
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On April 12 2012 06:11 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 04:38 sob3k wrote:On April 11 2012 04:33 Sabin010 wrote: Mobility boots are great on roamers. You completely left them out of the list. Like I said, I would only go mobility on maybe Twitch/Shaco and Sion, very niche conditional pick so I left them off the list. Your opinion doesn't match with what many people do. Mobility boots are common on champions like AP Sion and show up with some regularity on Jungle Alistar and Skarner. You should include the boot with an explanation on how it's used and why it's situational, not try to pretend nobody does it or that it isn't viable just because you never do it. If you aren't willing to do that much, you should leave writing guides to those who are. Objectivity is key.
I said Sion...
The entire point of this guide is that it is not objective in the slightest. As opposed to me just going through every item in the game and writing a page on each detailing their use in every matchup (and having it be useless), I'm just trying to make a quick and dirty help sheet to get newer players to start building viable items. I seriously considered just having the boot section just be Zerkers, Mercs, and Sorcs, because all the other boots are much more uncommon and I think new player will have better success just building one of those three than getting confused by choices. Mobility boots being used on 2-5 specific builds (jungle alistar probably wont even be seen until you have played like 300 games) out of 95+ champs is not going to make my cut. Once people have a basic handle on building for different champs there are literally thousands of incredibly detailed guides to help them zero in on exactly what is optimal in a given matchup.
On April 12 2012 06:17 Fawkes wrote: The three Dorans Ring mid is not really ONLY used as a mana regen tool, it provides hp buffer, damage and the mana regen. Something you need as a mid to survive ganks and burst damage.
I though I mentioned that but I guess I didn't, added.
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Is Dring not a viable mid opening any more?
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On April 11 2012 07:02 Ryuu314 wrote: Couple things. Regarding your solo top starting items you said "Sheen is a common early item in Champions that will use it in lane and to build Trinity Force." That's not exactly true. If a champion wants Triforce, the most common item that they'll get is Phage. I wouldn't ever go Sheen before Phage on my solo top bruisers. In fact, off the top of my head the only solo top champ that I would ever get Sheen before Phage on is Poppy.
Also, it's not as common, but if you plan on getting Wriggles opening cloth5 on AD bot isn't completely unheard of/bad. I know M5 did that a few times at IEM.
Additionally, Frozen Heart is also extremely good on bruisers that want CDR but don't want to go too far out of their way to itemize for it. Zhonyas should be in the AP items list. Frozen Mallet should also trump Warmogs. Part of the reason why you don't see many Warmogs builds nowadays is because after the nerf, Frozen Mallet is almost always a more useful pickup than Warmogs. forgot nasus
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On April 12 2012 07:56 Leeoku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:02 Ryuu314 wrote: Couple things. Regarding your solo top starting items you said "Sheen is a common early item in Champions that will use it in lane and to build Trinity Force." That's not exactly true. If a champion wants Triforce, the most common item that they'll get is Phage. I wouldn't ever go Sheen before Phage on my solo top bruisers. In fact, off the top of my head the only solo top champ that I would ever get Sheen before Phage on is Poppy.
Also, it's not as common, but if you plan on getting Wriggles opening cloth5 on AD bot isn't completely unheard of/bad. I know M5 did that a few times at IEM.
Additionally, Frozen Heart is also extremely good on bruisers that want CDR but don't want to go too far out of their way to itemize for it. Zhonyas should be in the AP items list. Frozen Mallet should also trump Warmogs. Part of the reason why you don't see many Warmogs builds nowadays is because after the nerf, Frozen Mallet is almost always a more useful pickup than Warmogs. forgot nasus Yea forgot about him. But with Nasus it's pretty situational which one u want first imo. I haven't played him in a long time tho so iunno.
On April 12 2012 07:49 57 Corvette wrote: Is Dring not a viable mid opening any more? It's not particularly all that good. If you open Dring and the other guy has boots+3, they will be able to punish you for having lower movespeed and no sustain.
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On April 12 2012 07:49 57 Corvette wrote: Is Dring not a viable mid opening any more? You become too vulnerable to skill shots and ganks.
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On April 12 2012 07:49 57 Corvette wrote: Is Dring not a viable mid opening any more?
Skillshots as time passes by become more and more powerful( as they are intended) so Dring wont help you as much as boots mid cuz of many nukers with powerful skill shots(at least thats what i think how it goes).
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On April 12 2012 07:49 57 Corvette wrote: Is Dring not a viable mid opening any more?
It depends on the hero. Like on lux for example I just cannot manage without a Dring as her mana pool and damages were too low for me to have any impact on the enemy. Boots 2 hp and 1 mana pot might work though. But on heroes like say brand its not such a great item.
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