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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:29 NeoIllusions wrote: That confused me a bit. What's the difference between "cast" and "commentate"? Think play by play and color. Caster is play by play (ie Tobi Wan, Totalbiscut) and commentator is the color guy (Day9, Jatt, ect) | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:20 NeoIllusions wrote: Someone explained the reasoning for the extended series to me in the LR thread and I came around and decided it was fair. But it still feels like a drag for the team coming out of the losers bracket because of the number of games they have to play on the final day. General question to all: what formats could you suggest if not the one used at IPL4? I think that it's 100% fair for the team that didn't drop a series to have an advantage. However, I don't think that this format works as well for LoL as it does for SC2 or Counter-Strike or other games. Just because of the fact that other games tend to end at 30 minutes whereas in LoL professional matches generally last 40-50 minutes. I think that group stages work a lot better for the kind of game that LoL is while allowing teams to have equal footing all tournament long. It also removes the possibility of having 2-2 finals or a 2-2 in losers finals (like assume Dig won semifinals 2-0 but then lost 2-0 to CLG in losers finals, the two teams went 2-2 throughout the tournament but because CLG won the 2-0 later on they advance). I realize that CLG vs Dig this tournament was 3-2 in favor of CLG but there's still the possibility that those two teams could've gone "even" on games. I dunno, maybe it's not that big of a deal but I don't really like double elim for LoL personally. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:29 NeoIllusions wrote: That confused me a bit. What's the difference between "cast" and "commentate"? Maybe I'm splitting hairs with the names, but I've always viewed a caster as someone who explains the play-by-play for the less-acquainted audience so that people can understand what's going on, points of excitement, etc. The commentator gives in-depth analysis and has insight into the thought process of the players. If the caster tries too hard to commentate, you get someone with not a lot of game knowledge saying things that are wrong. If the commentator tries too hard to cast, you get him muddled up in his analysis and following the game, like Phreak missing kills or spending too long looking at things that are uninteresting to a lot of people (like cs counts). | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
+ The venue created a great atmosphere, excellent fans. Accentuation by the multitude of hosts and activities to get the crowd involved. Good mix of personalities and + Kpop! <3 + Great job filling in downtime with various activities/kpop/commercials/interviews... etc. Even just sitting at home it never felt like "Gah, nothing happing.." + I really enjoyed event in general, was a good use of my easter weekend. ^_^ Negatives - We missed like half the sets of the tournament because we only got one stream. ZZzzz.... - Player Cams spoiled every game (and like every skirmish/teamfight) three minutes early. The nice, but should be delayed like the client and then have it switch to crowd/casters etc much like you see on OGN's "The Champions" tournament. - Split prize ceremony definitely kind of disrespectful to 2nd/3rd place teams. Should have big presentation then give everyone trophy, not give second third trophy, sweep them under the rug, then give first place. - Mediocre at best sound quality. Everyones Mic seemed to be different, when mic switched or ads aired or whatever often times they not the same sound level. SOmetimes mics would cut out/fluctuate randomly even sometimes just randomly killing your ears.  -Double elimination tournament not the best format for a game like league of legends where games can last long times. I much prefer the group stage system that OGN, Dreamhack, IEM, Go4LoL etc uses because it doesn't put someone who makes an early mistake at such a disadvantage while still giving teams rewards for playing well early. CLG had to play twice as many games as TSM did throughout the entirety of the tournament, and 6 hours on the day of the finals. This fine for FPS games or shorter games, but having one team play so much more is a huge disadvantage. I know for a fact I play considerably better in my first couple games of the day then I do after having a long long playtime. (And yes, I am a biased CLG fanboi. <_<) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
having hottie christina v for eye candy. having kpop (but wish they had better kpop songs) <3 interview couch, really nice sotl was really nice. Negatives Delay, there's no need for delay for lan event. the room looked cramped, definitely needs bigger room for LoL crowd. wished for more casters, felt like caster combo was limited. Suggestions: sound booths for players. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:32 overt wrote: I think that it's 100% fair for the team that didn't drop a series to have an advantage. However, I don't think that this format works as well for LoL as it does for SC2 or Counter-Strike or other games. Just because of the fact that other games tend to end at 30 minutes whereas in LoL professional matches generally last 40-50 minutes. I think that group stages work a lot better for the kind of game that LoL is while allowing teams to have equal footing all tournament long. It also removes the possibility of having 2-2 finals or a 2-2 in losers finals (like assume Dig won semifinals 2-0 but then lost 2-0 to CLG in losers finals, the two teams went 2-2 throughout the tournament but because CLG won the 2-0 later on they advance). I realize that CLG vs Dig this tournament was 3-2 in favor of CLG but there's still the possibility that those two teams could've gone "even" on games. I dunno, maybe it's not that big of a deal but I don't really like double elim for LoL personally. Bo5 with 1 game advantage for the Winner's Bracket finalist should work. Again, it's a similar amount of "advantage" to the winner's bracket finalist as having a 1 set advantage with 2x Bo3, but you have a maximum of 4 games, instead of 6. It's also a tried and true finals format in both Western and Chinese DotA tournaments. | ||
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lethal111
Canada460 Posts
I enjoyed the teams that were there. They showed great matches Christina Vee, Future wife right there LOL The tournment was runned fine, stream was very reliable. I loved Dan Dinh casting. I love the times when the stream started The Negative Commentators too loud sometimes. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Seriously. It needs to happen. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
Camera control during the games is sometimes pretty bad. It's generally accepted that it's very hard to both commentate and control the camera, so it would be wise to have someone dedicated to camera control. 720p being subscriber only is a let down, but if that's the business model you choose to go with then shrug. I personally don't think it's worth it and feel you should generate revenue in other areas. EDIT: Oh yeah, and please run dual streams in the future with this format, as it would be nice to not miss half the games. It's resource intensive, but let's face it, League is very popular. It's definitely something that IPL should shoot for. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:36 Two_DoWn wrote: Oh and its time to switch to dota style bans. Seriously. It needs to happen. There is nothing IGN can do about this. -_- | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:39 NeoIllusions wrote: There is nothing IGN can do about this. -_- Do it on paper and use a drag and drop app like they used to until riot gets their shit together. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
+Cristina Vee as host was a great idea; would like to see her host again +Kpop was lol +Great venue +Overall very well run Negatives +Cristina Vee's random quip at the very end of the tourney during awards was out-of-place and made things really awkward. I can just chalk that up to inexperience or w/e tho +Kpop +Only one stream was kinda annoying, but the games that were shown were overall very good so this is minor +Need better casters; this one's more of a statement towards pro-LoL in general tho +Do Bo5 with one game advantage instead of two Bo3's with a one set advantage. Makes more sense for LoL imo | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
+ Enthusiastic Crowd + Professional Set up Negatives - Mediocre to bad commentator/caster. No where near SC2 caster level. Annoying at times. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
-Camera control was done well, didn't miss many important events and focused exactly where it needed to be -Good entertainment value outside games with the interviews, showmatches, etc -Kpop Negatives -The troll faces -Christina sometimes didn't know what to say, so it became apparent that she's forcing out dialogue, making it kinda awkward. If this is her first time emceeing an event like this, I think she did a pretty good job still. -The person casting with Dan Dinh made it more like an interview rather than a duo cast. It was a nonstop question period. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
-I enjoyed the pros vs rioter/fans -Personally I thought the double elim was well spaced out with the losers finals early in the day and the grand finals later on in the day; potentially 6-hours, but that's worst, worst, worst scenario. -I enjoyed SOTL and the interviews; would've preferred more winners interviews (didn't see one for day 2's winner brackets winners), maybe a short 10-15 group interview with the entire winning team. -Christina V.'s involvement. Pretty cool having one of the voice actors in the hosting. -Redbaron improved from before, though not enough that putting him with hatperson made the casting bearable. Negatives -Hatperson; seems like a nice guy, but just doesn't add anything. Sure he yells and gets excitable, but "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON" is just annoying, and he seemed constantly not to know what was going on and would say the wrong things. It'd be nice to have someone who can do colour casting and actually have some idea what's going on. -Would prefer better casting in general; 1 color+ 1 analysis. Most combos seemed mostly color and the analysis was sort of shallow for the most part as I believe no one other than Dan Dinh plays professionally. -On the flip side, Christina V obviously did not know what to say/ask at certain points; asking HSGG "what's your favourite part of the tournament" just seemed really out of place. If you want to keep her as an MC, preferably do it so that she does co-hosting with an experienced person or give her a list of things to say/do. -Trophies were very underwhelming. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
female hosters were less annoying than in previous events doing a proper extended series instead of best of 3 and giving 1 game advantage dyrus negatives at the very least hatperson needs to stop screaming random stuff when he doesnt know what to say his cocaster needs to not just ask questions when casting with someone competent. those two casters need to learn the game more, they flat out say wrong stuff all the time casters need to improve camerawork badly microphones picking up too much noise and are too focused on the crowd to make them sound louder and more exiting than in other events, but this makes certain annoying crowd people stand out too much ingame sound was poor quality kpop is not somthing i can support also, travis is one of the very few males that looks worse in a suit  | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
The interviews in between the games with the players Negative: The people who interviewed the players sucked. Please get some people who are charismatic. The fat guy who does SOTL does not represent the E-sports image well, doesn't take care of himself, and his questions, and game knowledge suck, and he's not charismatic. Watching E-sports should be like watching basketball. You need to bring about a surreal image, give me a positive motivating reason to go pro, when I grow up, I should want to be part of E-sports. I shouldn't think that E-sports is something that only nerds do. I want to bring people into E-sports, and people are turned off by non-charismatic people. Positive: You had commentating Negative: All the commentators except Phreak and Dan Dinh were bad. Please get people who know the game/are charismatic, and have the commentating enhance the experience of watching IPL, not detract from it. Extra additions that would make watching IPL better: OGN switches cams and stuff from the dude controlling the camera, to the player's faces, to first person views, and stuff like that. It fills up dead time during the early game and makes the game more exciting to watch because most people have small attention spans. Cuts in between aka camera tricks can make the game more fun to watch. Another addition: More player knowledge. Like there should be more knowledge about the players I am watching. Honestly, I know nothing about the EU teams/players and the NA teams/players. I don't know who they are, what their elos are, what champions they play, what they look like, their history playing LoL. I have very little information about them. For a casual LoL player and viewer like me, please fill me in to everything about the people that I am actually watching and hype them up please. The players who go to live tourneys get more exposure and coverage, their sponsors are happy, and the viewers are happy. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
+ Definite improvement from last time. It was very well done last time as well, and I enjoy that the IPL crew is working to make improvements. + Kpop was hilariously good. Reactions about it were entertaining. Doesn't really need to be there, BUT it was A LOT better than dead air during ads. + Great venue and crowd excitement was amazing. + It was a very well run tournament. Most games started on time. The 2nd day was delayed I believe, but I enjoyed that they started casting extra games during some down time. I believe they covered a surprisingly high amount of games played. + I'm actually a pretty big fan of 480p. It's the middle ground between paying for something or not, and I think IPL did a nice choice of it. I hope they keep a maximum of 480p(rather than 360p), and keep anything higher for sell. I find LoL to be reasonably easy to follow in 480p. Just a suggestion though, I think their advertisement for the higher quality stream was not really the best. As in, I'm not sure if people knew this was an available option. 5$ for HQ is a very decent amount, and is not too much. If I have the time to watch all of it, I'd consider buying it. + Great games by everyone that attended. I know this is more about the teams/players, but they all played so well. The games were exciting, and I enjoyed watching all I could catch. Negatives - The casting/commentating is sub-par. The worst part is not that these people are doing it, but that they don't seem to have any practice. Sometimes, I wonder if they are prepared, or if they just randomly got sucked into it. As funny as it is to see the audience shout to the observer to change to a lane, it's so embarrassing in terms of a professional environment. I feel the casters/ commentators played into it, and didn't take it seriously. It's a huge problem. Please have a third party observer who listens and can sometimes direct the casters/ commentators to where the action is. At the very least, please have a third party observer who's ONLY looking at the mini-map(for the most part), call out the plays in their headsets. People missing fights in LoL is so sad. I mean even if someone is talking, let them finish talking, but at least move the camera to the fight. It's okay if you miss some play-by-play if you get the fight on screen.(This is where a lot of the highlights come from anyways) I also believe that commentators(game analysis) are good for the overall feel of the tournament, but they are not as exciting to listen to. If you can find a good duo (commentator + caster), I think it would work well. Dan Dinh is decent at commentating, and explaining some of the more intricate decisions for the crowd is nice. The problem comes in is that Dan Dinh sometimes lessens the excitement overall. So, you need a better caster who can hype the crowd back up. RedBaron and Hatperson don't cut it at the moment. I think this issue will happen for any commentator, because they look at the game in an analytical way, and not in the "WHOA LOOK AT THAT FLASH" way. - Please get some sound-proof booths/ stage for the teams. This hurt both the players and the audience. I think the audience was amazing, and the fact that they had to keep their excitement to a minimum is a shame. There were player complaints about the noise level as well. - Sound issues throughout the event. Pretty frustrating. Smaller complaint in the sound department, I believe that one of the mics for the casters/commentators was blown out/ malfunctioning. Anytime they'd get excited, and get loud, it would kinda blow out. - Lastly, I would like it if there were multiple streams for LoL. We all have our favorites, and not being able to watch them is a shame. Hope this helps, sorry the formatting is terrible. | ||
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G3CKO
Canada1430 Posts
Great tournament overall I like the format Pretty good crowd interactions Negatives Please get better casters to go with Rivington and Phreak Stream lag was reported by multiple people Some one flashed troll face Volume inconsistent | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:39 NeoIllusions wrote: There is nothing IGN can do about this. -_- i think it would be very easy for a programmer to make a little program that does this. These events seem to have a lot more complicated PC things going on, should be np. And once main events use this format, riot will change it in-game soon enough. | ||
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