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[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 6

Forum Index > LoL General
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.

Thanks. Happy Gaming.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
February 29 2012 09:03 GMT
#101
On February 29 2012 16:58 BlackPaladin wrote:
I still don't get what's the point of making yi 2.0, now with boobs. :/


To get the boobs, duh. Boobs sell, they want more moniez
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
February 29 2012 09:06 GMT
#102
server down... patch inc.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
rwrzr
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1980 Posts
February 29 2012 09:10 GMT
#103
On February 29 2012 17:09 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 16:58 BlackPaladin wrote:
I still don't get what's the point of making yi 2.0, now with boobs. :/


yi has abilities that scale off of AP. he's part of the old school of thought (or more correctly, no thought) of RIOT's. where they didn't make kits that made sense always. ap yi, ap trist, irelia having ap ratios, sion/gragas having high ap ratios (though, these turned out ok, just not as intended) are all examples of classic lol champs that are meant to be built one way but scale extensively off of a counterproductive stat

riot is now starting to make champs that have more cohesion in their skills. shyvana: magic damage, but still scales off of AD so you're encouraged to not build her like a fumbling retard. talon: no real AP ratios. fiora. voli/sej/nautilus having self-health scaling skills and wanting you to build them tanky


AD scaling spells seem to double dip. Most champions with AD scaling spells would be building AD anyways to improve their autoattack damage.

Whereas I don't believe building AP nets you any benefits outside of ability scaling. (AND damage against turrets) Of course there is Lichbane, but that requires you to A) Buy the Item and B) Have enough AP to make it worth it (with your 0 Arpen)

The closest 'double dipping' comparison would be Ryze. His high spell costs force him to build Mana, but unlike other APs he doesn't lose out because his skills scale off of Mana. As it happens Sheen and Manamune/AA are the only 2 non-tank mana items. So he gets damage and tankiness.
FADC
Lorken
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand804 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-29 09:12:51
February 29 2012 09:11 GMT
#104
I was like 5 mins away from getting my first win of the day (only have time for 1 (sometimes 2) games after college and it shuts down to update!

Related: I like the Teemo and general changes
LOUD NOISES!!!
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
February 29 2012 09:21 GMT
#105
Getting the urgotskin definately.
KCCO!
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-29 09:26:18
February 29 2012 09:25 GMT
#106
Olaf nerf thing is with regard to mr/armor vs flat reduction given how flat reduction applies after basically everything.

On February 29 2012 18:11 Lorken wrote:
I was like 5 mins away from getting my first win of the day (only have time for 1 (sometimes 2) games after college and it shuts down to update!

Related: I like the Teemo and general changes

Bot games for quick fwotd.
twitch.tv/cratonz
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
February 29 2012 09:47 GMT
#107
On February 29 2012 18:25 Craton wrote:
Olaf nerf thing is with regard to mr/armor vs flat reduction given how flat reduction applies after basically everything.

Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 18:11 Lorken wrote:
I was like 5 mins away from getting my first win of the day (only have time for 1 (sometimes 2) games after college and it shuts down to update!

Related: I like the Teemo and general changes

Bot games for quick fwotd.

Bot dominion games. Takes between 7-10 minutes.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
February 29 2012 09:47 GMT
#108
On February 29 2012 13:15 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 12:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
Riven- Hotfix

Stats:
Attack speed gain per level increased to 3.5 from 2.9.
Base armor increased to 15 from 12.
Broken Wings: bonus attack damage ratio increased to 0.7 from 0.6.
Ki Shout: cast time decreased to 0.25 from 0.5.
Valor:
Shield strength increased to 60/90/120/150/180 from 40/70/100/130/160.
Cooldown decreased to 10/9/8/7/6 from 11/10/9/8/7.
Wind Slash:
Cast time decreased to 0.25 from 0.5.
Missile speed increased to 2200 from 2000.

Im not sure those are what I would refer to as overbuffed, or that without these changes she was garbage.

Remember, she still had an absurd hp/5 before AND after the changes. The only meaningful change in the hotfix was a buff to her shield, which basically translated to 20 shield and a 1 second cd drop. I dont really think you can qualify any of those as overbuffing her.

Riven was a clear case of no one knew how to play her, then Westrice figured her out.


the attack speed gains are huge for pushing towers with ult after you force someone out of lane
base armor of 3 increase is an increase from 10.8% damage reduction to 13% damage reduction, an increase of 120%
shield strength increases were insane, 20 more damage (150% more) per every cast, casts come 10% faster, that's another damage reduction of like 165%...

and the spellcast times were nice. maybe a bit trivial but everything helps

i definitely think people not knowing how to play her didn't help her case, but she was decidedly weak on release


this.. math...

10.8% damage reduction to 13% damage reduction, an increase of 20%
shield strength increases were insane, 20 more damage (50% more) per every cast

fixed..
And all is illuminated.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 29 2012 09:50 GMT
#109
On February 29 2012 18:02 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 17:46 Kaniol wrote:
So afterall they do stick with Olaf nerfs

Olaf

Axe Throw
Damage increased to 80-260 from 50-210
Scaling changed to +1.0 bonus AD from +0.5 total AD
Base cooldown reduced to 8 seconds from 10
Cooldown reduction for picking up the axe reduced to 4.5 seconds from 6
Ragnarok now provides 30/45/60 Armor and Magic Resist instead of 20/30/40 flat damage reduction
Movement Speed increased to 325 from 320
Poppy

How is this a nerf? Armor & MR from ulti synergizes better with the fact that Olaf wants to build health, not armor. Free flat damage reduction scales better off of armor, resists scale better off of +HP.


The ult change is mostly a nerf.

The problem is that a 6 second defensive steroid on a 100 second cooldown isn't going to have a huge effect on your build. You can't just ignore Armor/MR for the other 94 seconds. Even champions who have defensive steroids with far better uptimes build Armor/MR.

So ultimately 30/45/60 Armor/MR at level 6/11/16 isn't going to change how you build Olaf. The end result is that you'll be slightly tankier for a brief window early in the game, but at the cost of significant mid-late game survivability.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
GhoSt[shield]
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2131 Posts
February 29 2012 10:01 GMT
#110
Hurray new patch incoming. Just bought Riven as I need a champ with strong shoulders carry games in my quest for ranked elo pts!!! Am planning to grind dominion all day tomorrow to get IP for Yorick (yes Morwai I've seen all your comments on how Yorick is an asshole in lane and you have single-handedly convinced me to pick him up and play him as top-lane more often.)
Am quite excited about Teemo shroom laying buffs (easier slow kiting) as I really, really want to lay him against all the AD bruisers who popular in top-lane. Super teemo all day every day!
I find it funny about the riot hotfix to Lee Sin Q dmg. i found no noticable loss in burst dmg but hey, I will take easier FB out of the jungle any day :3
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
February 29 2012 10:05 GMT
#111
First character I'm going to buy on Day One. Been practicing ranged AD lately, and I really like the look of this char, so I'ma try her bot in that roll.
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-29 10:23:32
February 29 2012 10:22 GMT
#112
On February 29 2012 18:02 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 17:46 Kaniol wrote:
So afterall they do stick with Olaf nerfs

Olaf

Axe Throw
Damage increased to 80-260 from 50-210
Scaling changed to +1.0 bonus AD from +0.5 total AD
Base cooldown reduced to 8 seconds from 10
Cooldown reduction for picking up the axe reduced to 4.5 seconds from 6
Ragnarok now provides 30/45/60 Armor and Magic Resist instead of 20/30/40 flat damage reduction
Movement Speed increased to 325 from 320
Poppy

How is this a nerf? Armor & MR from ulti synergizes better with the fact that Olaf wants to build health, not armor. Free flat damage reduction scales better off of armor, resists scale better off of +HP.

Extra move speed for a champ with no gap closers is pretty cool.

Axe CD is now shorter and scales better with equipment (And it gains more when you press W!) but less well from leveling up and gaining base attack damage. Assuming you only have atmogs at 18 with new olaf, you have more axe damage than previously.

The Axe CD change still allows you to spam your axe quite a bit if you have max CDR and pick up your axe - if you somehow instantly picked up your axe with 40% CDR, you'd have a 0.3 second CD. Thus, the CDR changes to axe are pretty much purely a buff (a buff to everyone EXCEPT 40-cdr olafs who are throwing their axe at point blank range.. .and even then, you still spam your axe b/c the throw animation probably takes longer than 0.3 seconds.)

Mathcraft:
+ Show Spoiler +

So, let's assume we have a level 9 olaf who just maxed out Axe, and only has a wriggles lantern for items.
Pre-nerf he would do 210+(89+23)/2 = 266 damage on a 10 second CD (4s if he picks up the axe) and now he does 260+23 = 283 damage on an 8 second CD (3.5s if he picks up the axe)

That's not even while his W is active. Late game he'll probably have atmogs and gain even more off the new bonus-AD scaling.


Not a nerf on any count. If you want, I'll mathcraft earlier and later levels, but I'm pretty sure the new olaf axe is better on almost all counts, except the ones where you build pure tanky, and even then it's close to even.

I don't care about axe change, so not sure why you are talking about axe. It always was super strong ability and everyone knew that - buffing it will NOT solve other Olaf's problems. And his ulti got nerfed. AGAIN. 6 seconds in a teamfight isn't that huge, really. It's similar duration to trynd's ult and well... Trynd's ult gives him way more survivability (except for being weak to cc)
bokeevboke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Singapore1674 Posts
February 29 2012 10:24 GMT
#113
On February 29 2012 16:17 Bladeorade wrote:
I was actually like haha Na...then i saw Luxanna and actually was like haha.


lol, i didnt see what he did there
Its grack
R04R
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1631 Posts
February 29 2012 10:38 GMT
#114
yo, server's up
ô¿ô
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
February 29 2012 10:46 GMT
#115
A question regarding the jungle:-

I primarily started playing junglers when the new jungle was implemented so I'm not sure how it used to be before. But right now, usually it seems I keep farming wolves, wraiths & buffs and plenty of times I feel like going to small golems just takes too much time.

So I end up skipping small gols plenty of time (especially when I'm playing single target jungles like warwick) and usually only bother doing them when I'm going in that area anyways like for a gank or something. Am I doing something wrong? Or doing small gols evrytime they're up isn't optimal now?
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7584 Posts
February 29 2012 10:53 GMT
#116
If the server stays stable... Riot has improved significantly.
Stuck.
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
February 29 2012 11:03 GMT
#117
On February 29 2012 19:46 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
A question regarding the jungle:-

I primarily started playing junglers when the new jungle was implemented so I'm not sure how it used to be before. But right now, usually it seems I keep farming wolves, wraiths & buffs and plenty of times I feel like going to small golems just takes too much time.

So I end up skipping small gols plenty of time (especially when I'm playing single target jungles like warwick) and usually only bother doing them when I'm going in that area anyways like for a gank or something. Am I doing something wrong? Or doing small gols evrytime they're up isn't optimal now?

Depends on your jungler but yeah there are 3 camps, each linked to a lane. If you're not ganking the lane, most of the times you won't clear the camp. Except if you're Shyvana where you can TP from one camp to another and one shot everything.
The legend of Darien lives on
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-29 11:06:53
February 29 2012 11:04 GMT
#118
So a Morello quote from the official forums :

''Atmogs is something I wanna chew up but we want to put more appropriate fighter items in first so they don't just leave the game''

Pretty interesting to say the least.


@mrtolkein yeah, with udyr and shyvanna I don't really have that problem. With warwick etc its different.
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
-Zoda-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
France3578 Posts
February 29 2012 11:15 GMT
#119
I dunno what to think of Fiora... She looks strong but squishy as hell like Master Yi but without Meditation.
I'm also interested to see how the mana regeneration on jungle creeps will affect junglers. It should make more viable AP-based junglers.

And also, about the discussion of champions prices of the last GD, a way to make champs cheaper without annoying people who bought them full price would simply be to increase IP rates, don't you think ?
♪ 最初はi つなぐdo それ つまりlife 常に移動 ♪ - IGN: Uhryks
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-29 11:26:54
February 29 2012 11:26 GMT
#120
So there is a cooldown when someone buys a ward for it to be announced, but sight and vision wards aren't on the same cooldown.
On February 29 2012 19:46 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
A question regarding the jungle:-

I primarily started playing junglers when the new jungle was implemented so I'm not sure how it used to be before. But right now, usually it seems I keep farming wolves, wraiths & buffs and plenty of times I feel like going to small golems just takes too much time.

So I end up skipping small gols plenty of time (especially when I'm playing single target jungles like warwick) and usually only bother doing them when I'm going in that area anyways like for a gank or something. Am I doing something wrong? Or doing small gols evrytime they're up isn't optimal now?

All the camps give the same xp, though they don't all give the same gold, golems giving closer to 75-80 gold while wraiths and wolves give 60. Naturally you want to gank your carry lanes, since damage items out scale defense items which puts you behind if you gank the bruiser lane when the opponent ganks the carry lane. If you're blue side farming golems wouldn't put you into an advantagous gank position since it's close to top, while purple side they would put you close to bottom lane. I find myself not clearing wolves but doing wraiths and double golems often because those two will always be physically closer to lanes for you to gank/counter gank. Also since it is bottom lane that controls dragon, and not the jungler, ganks happening bottom will produce better results (two possible kills and a dragon, compared to only one kill in either other lane). This is why I find purple side has a huge advantage over blue side for the first 20 or so minutes of the game.

A little above what you asked but hopefully it's helpful.
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