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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 15 2012 12:41 UniversalSnip wrote: You don't need the wriggles, just go double doran's blade. You can open with doran's blade and clear in under 3:30 with lots of health as I recall. Razors/Wriggle's lets you do Dragon REALLY early on Olaf. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 15 2012 12:49 TheYango wrote: Razors/Wriggle's lets you do Dragon REALLY early on Olaf. Indeed. Plus in terms of just pure VALUE on any auto attacker in the jungle wriggles is just too good to pass up. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:04 Two_DoWn wrote: Indeed. Plus in terms of just pure VALUE on any auto attacker in the jungle wriggles is just too good to pass up. Well, not really. If you already clear really fast double doran's is actually significantly better gold for value. You can early dragon just fine with double doran's on him, did it last night. There are very few heroes I go with this build for but his free lifesteal is just absurd, you really don't need to stack much more. | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:45 BlackPaladin wrote: You don't buy wriggles just because it gives you lifesteal.......... you spend a lot on it EDIT: wait what? That doesn't make sense in any context. Yes you do. Obviously it's got other stuff that's nice but you're not dropping 600 gold to upgrade from razors just for the ward. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:44 MindBreaker wrote: Hey can we get a Xerath thread sometime? I would love to learn how to play him better! I might make one, I think I've got a pretty good handle on him at least for the basics and builds. So with this new Shen the question is which to level first: Shield: derp its a shield free health and doubles ki strike deeps when up Dagger: derp its free harass/ranged attack and sustain Im still leaning towards Dagger first, as the shield becomes more useful DPSwise later in the game when you get enough health to really truck kids with kistrike, while dagger is stronger early in lane. Maybe shield first vs GP/panth to totally deny spear and parrley. New Shen is just nuts and a half though, I thought the damage reduction on taunt and the kistrikes every 3 attacks would be ridiculous and it is. Volibear gets to bite people for 15% of bonus health every 3 attacks on an 18 second CD. Shen gets to whack people with 10% bonus health every 3 attacks with NO CD...and it gives him energy. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:47 UniversalSnip wrote: you spend a lot on it EDIT: wait what? That doesn't make sense in any context. Yes you do. Obviously it's got other stuff that's nice but you're not dropping 600 gold to upgrade from razors just for the ward. I like wriggles for a few reasons: First- Drag control. Second- Mana management. You cant rely on q/w to jungle with because your mana pool is really pretty small. Q spam only works with blue, which you typically only have for a single clear. Wriggles lets you have speed and choose how much mana to spend. Third- I likes armor. And attack damage. And lifesteal. And I LOVE items that have all 3. Fourth- Speed. Like, I dont quite understand why you would willingly turn down survivability. There is no such thing as "too much lifesteal." I think that 2 dblades could easily work. I just think that wriggles is stronger both in terms of what it lets you do around the map and just purely as an item. If anything I think the option that you should be arguing is wriggles->2dblades vs wriggles->hog. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:44 MindBreaker wrote: Hey can we get a Xerath thread sometime? I would love to learn how to play him better! Iunno if we have any people who main or play a lot of Xerath here. Afaik, we don't have any high elo Xerath superstars. He's super strong, but extremely underplayed, even on TL which is saying something. Generally, boots3 or dring -> 2~3 drings. Then WotA/Dcap/Rylais in no particular order. Void staff is a must for longer games. Boots generally sorc boots, but cdr can be okay. Mercs/Tabis are super situational but I can see you buying them. R>Q>E/W, tho E should usually take priority over W, but getting a few early levels of W can be helpful in solo q since it drastically lowers the cd and in solo q you'll probably find yourself needing to reposition often. One of my friends has a 70% winrate with Xerath as his top 3 most played champ (currently 1500-1600). He says in lane you want to shove the lane as much as you can to hit 6 asap. Don't overextend too much tho and be mindful of ganks. If you can land some E+Q or just Q harass that's good too. Once you hit 6, you have the ability to 100-0 most squishies and to bring basically any non-bruiser really low. Your ulti's super low cooldown lets you spam it at will. Generally, what you want to do is once you tag the other guy with E then follow up with RQRR. Smartcasting helps. Don't change into siege mode in the middle of a combo. The animation is long enough that they can sometimes move out of range or let them react. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Why did everyone stop playing him? o.o He still so good even if he behind, your team has Shurelyia's, Randuins, and Skarner slow it is almost impossible to lose a teamfight regardless how herpderp your team is. You all so fast, they all soooo slow. It makes me happy. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Also- if your ult is up use it. Send your lane opponent back to base. Gank and kill people. That thing has a short cd. Use that shit like candy. ALSO: GENERAL CASTER NOTE: Something that salce does that I thing EVERY ap mid should be doing- once you get your void staff sell your sorcs and buy lucidity boots. No reason not to. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 15 2012 14:00 iCanada wrote: Holy, I forgot how good Skarner was. Why did everyone stop playing him? o.o He still so good even if he behind, your team has Shurelyia's, Randuins, and Skarner slow it is almost impossible to lose a teamfight regardless how herpderp your team is. You all so fast, they all soooo slow. It makes me happy. He is good in solo q when you are against people who are uncoordinated. Against a solo q team that actually works together (1 out of every 1000000000 solo q games or 3/4 of tournament games) his usefulness falls off because your opportunity to catch people is much more limited. But he is still really good in solo q. Just dont play him vs Cassio cuz she will kite and kill the shit outta you. | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On February 15 2012 14:00 iCanada wrote: Holy, I forgot how good Skarner was. Why did everyone stop playing him? o.o He still so good even if he behind, your team has Shurelyia's, Randuins, and Skarner slow it is almost impossible to lose a teamfight regardless how herpderp your team is. You all so fast, they all soooo slow. It makes me happy. I ask that all the time, except it's more about Udyr. I don't really know anyone other than Teutonica who is high ELO and plays Udyr on a regular basis. He's so stronk. I've been using a build that Teutonica recommended to me and it's been working really well. Very tanky and Udyr's bear stance synergizes with Shurelia's and Randuin's as well. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Obviously double dorans are more efficient in general, because that's the nature of dorans items. They're efficient. They do efficient things because of their efficiency. But I just like wriggles a lot more in general on AD autoattacks in the jungle. It's just a really great item in general and provides you with a lot of control, more so than dorans can. You can really take dragon extremely quickly with olaf with a razor/wriggles. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:47 UniversalSnip wrote: you spend a lot on it EDIT: wait what? That doesn't make sense in any context. Yes you do. Obviously it's got other stuff that's nice but you're not dropping 600 gold to upgrade from razors just for the ward. Even if it gave no lifesteal, the armor and ad increase would actually be close to cost-effective, not considering the ward or the proc. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:55 sob3k wrote: I might make one, I think I've got a pretty good handle on him at least for the basics and builds. So with this new Shen the question is which to level first: Shield: derp its a shield free health and doubles ki strike deeps when up Dagger: derp its free harass/ranged attack and sustain Im still leaning towards Dagger first, as the shield becomes more useful DPSwise later in the game when you get enough health to really truck kids with kistrike, while dagger is stronger early in lane. Maybe shield first vs GP/panth to totally deny spear and parrley. New Shen is just nuts and a half though, I thought the damage reduction on taunt and the kistrikes every 3 attacks would be ridiculous and it is. Volibear gets to bite people for 15% of bonus health every 3 attacks on an 18 second CD. Shen gets to whack people with 10% bonus health every 3 attacks with NO CD...and it gives him energy. Champ thread has some decent input, should continue there. tl;dr: Shield/Vorpal > Taunt. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:58 Two_DoWn wrote: I like wriggles for a few reasons: First- Drag control. Second- Mana management. You cant rely on q/w to jungle with because your mana pool is really pretty small. Q spam only works with blue, which you typically only have for a single clear. Wriggles lets you have speed and choose how much mana to spend. Third- I likes armor. And attack damage. And lifesteal. And I LOVE items that have all 3. Fourth- Speed. Like, I dont quite understand why you would willingly turn down survivability. There is no such thing as "too much lifesteal." I think that 2 dblades could easily work. I just think that wriggles is stronger both in terms of what it lets you do around the map and just purely as an item. If anything I think the option that you should be arguing is wriggles->2dblades vs wriggles->hog. you do drag just fine and your clear speed is not an issue. couple d blades gives you WAY more survivability than a wriggles on olaf. There is zero flat hp on a wriggles and you pretty much already crush ad heroes, the only issue he has in fights is losing hp while he chases someone down and getting bursted by ap and wriggles doesn't help you at all with that. I build it on lane usually because you just have so much more gold that you can buy it and still hit the raw hp threshold you need vs mid but in jungle it's ironically worse. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
WTF SINCE WHEN DON'T I OWN JANNA | ||
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