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On February 03 2012 14:54 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 14:52 Shikyo wrote:
Just played my first game with Ashe since the buffs(and since forever) and... I think she's really strong now! I lost my lane slightly vs sivir taric but it was still okay and I got farmed, but in the midgame teamfights, holy crap! They volley spam and the permaslow made it super difficult for the enemy Shyvana to even think about going for me, no one could run away, and had some arrows that completely turned the game around I think...
I'm guessing people are going to start playing her a lot more now. Really feels good. How can you call Ashes midgame stronger when it was the early W levels which got buffed? =S
Nah she just doesn't get pwned that hard in lane, her mid/late always was strong but you didn't get there as well
On February 03 2012 15:07 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 14:54 r.Evo wrote:On February 03 2012 14:52 Shikyo wrote:
Just played my first game with Ashe since the buffs(and since forever) and... I think she's really strong now! I lost my lane slightly vs sivir taric but it was still okay and I got farmed, but in the midgame teamfights, holy crap! They volley spam and the permaslow made it super difficult for the enemy Shyvana to even think about going for me, no one could run away, and had some arrows that completely turned the game around I think...
I'm guessing people are going to start playing her a lot more now. Really feels good. How can you call Ashes midgame stronger when it was the early W levels which got buffed? =S Because when the person you're playing against is awful and doesn't completely dominate you in lane the game turns out well. Anybody playing her now is just a stupid sheep who saw she got buffed. The buffs Ashe got are a joke and if you thought she wasn't viable before the patch, nothing has changed. All of Ashe's numbers are still less than other AD carries if you actually look at them (besides like 20 extra health now). She has no steroid. She has no escape. When you play ashe you better be damn sure your team can peel for you or that you just won't get dived in the first place. Your arrows better be game winning too because that's all Ashe is good at.
First crit almost counts as a steroid, especially after you first get your IE. Also, spammable Volley is an AoE nuke with pretty decent damage. In addition she's relatively tough to dive, at least Gangplank and Shyvana get kited, as does Wukong for instance. She still doesn't deal as much dmg as like Sivir or Graves, yeah, but she has more range in return. The arrow I don't even need to mention I guess, but it's amazing.
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why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff
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On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff
Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HpNFC.jpg)
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On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler +
Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked.
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On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked.
i think the reason they're considered bad was the same reason you just gave
"i assume they're shit so i won't try them and see that they are good, which will reinforce that they're bad in my mind" lol
as far as i know, people had a lot of success with both of them
neither was shit, neither was probably OP but neither was garbage
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On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked.
i think after the buff viktor is op now. which makes me believe they wanted to get more people to spend money on viktor since he's good now. The Q buffs make him really hard to trade against and the ulti just kills people straight up
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On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked.
Sejuani is pretty fucking op'd, people are just fucking retards with her. Everyone tries to build her Tanky AP, or Bruiser, but in reality you build her as FULL TANK with a bit more health focus, and she ends up doing quite a respectable amount of damage, and offers an insane amount of utility. I'm actually a huge proponent of sejuani, after playing with my 1700elo friend plays sejuani, and just completely cleans face with her. But I think she's only usable in pre-made, requires really nice coordination on ganks.
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On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked.
Release viktor was very shit. Sejuani, while still pretty bad, is at least redeemed by the fact that she has really strong initiation. She does very little damage though, which makes her a pretty bad pick even in the jungle. (Don't even get me started on her laning..) If you could build your team comp around her you might be able to force some nice engages with her dash and ult, but overall she's just outclassed by too many other heroes.
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On February 03 2012 16:29 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked. Release viktor was very shit. Sejuani, while still pretty bad, is at least redeemed by the fact that she has really strong initiation. She does very little damage though, which makes her a pretty bad pick even in the jungle. (Don't even get me started on her laning..) If you could build your team comp around her you might be able to force some nice engages with her dash and ult, but overall she's just outclassed by too many other heroes.
Whoa guys, 4 weeks after only a handful of people playing sejuani incorrectly. Play her full tank with a focus with hp items and she scales ridiculously well into mid game with damage, and her CC keeps her strong all game long.
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On February 03 2012 16:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 16:29 Perplex wrote:On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked. Release viktor was very shit. Sejuani, while still pretty bad, is at least redeemed by the fact that she has really strong initiation. She does very little damage though, which makes her a pretty bad pick even in the jungle. (Don't even get me started on her laning..) If you could build your team comp around her you might be able to force some nice engages with her dash and ult, but overall she's just outclassed by too many other heroes. Whoa guys, 4 weeks after only a handful of people playing sejuani incorrectly. Play her full tank with a focus with hp items and she scales ridiculously well into mid game with damage, and her CC keeps her strong all game long.
Wait, are you implying full tank Sej does more damage than bruiser Sej
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lol when I played around with her a bit I was thinking she would do well just stacking giants belts
I think the implication from what I've seen is she has a hard time mixing offensive and defensive items because the only use I see of her autos are to proc her passive
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Sej i think needs only slightly higher base damages early levels to quicken her jungle clear. To me, her kit is really great for arranged 5's but she suffers the problem of a slow jungler who can't keep up with a faster and more aggressive jungler in arranged play (which atm is what most teams use, such as udyr). But her utility is god-like and lategame you literally can't get away from her while she has similar initation power to ashe. She's no good in solo q just like galio though - an initiating tank with good utility but that doesn't do enough damage to outright kill someone. She's not "fun" to play for most because of that. She also has to rely on the team to not be full derp to capitalize.
Viktor was alright but his q needed to be buffed to make him on par with others, and it was. He should be on par with most champs now and I think he's a good pick like any other AP. Matchup dependant, obviously.
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I can't test this now, but can Viktor trade his Q with the shield with anyone? Like, annie and Viktor both Q at the same time, does Viktor get the shield to block the damage or not?
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Baa?21248 Posts
On February 03 2012 16:55 Shikyo wrote:
I can't test this now, but can Viktor trade his Q with the shield with anyone? Like, annie and Viktor both Q at the same time, does Viktor get the shield to block the damage or not?
No. Annie Q speed really fast. It might work with some of the slower ones now, but like you'd still have to throw it first sine you have to hit them and then have it come back to you...
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On February 03 2012 16:49 BlackPaladin wrote:
Sej i think needs only slightly higher base damages early levels to quicken her jungle clear. To me, her kit is really great for arranged 5's but she suffers the problem of a slow jungler who can't keep up with a faster and more aggressive jungler in arranged play (which atm is what most teams use, such as udyr). But her utility is god-like and lategame you literally can't get away from her while she has similar initation power to ashe. She's no good in solo q just like galio though - an initiating tank with good utility but that doesn't do enough damage to outright kill someone. She's not "fun" to play for most because of that. She also has to rely on the team to not be full derp to capitalize.
Viktor was alright but his q needed to be buffed to make him on par with others, and it was. He should be on par with most champs now and I think he's a good pick like any other AP. Matchup dependant, obviously.
My suspicion is that because Sejuani's W looks/sounds/functions so much like Shyvana's they ended up gimping its damage while trying to differentiate it. The health scaling is neat, but ultimately its base damage needs to be higher for Sejuani to clear at a competitive speed. Right now you might as well max E first and just auto each wolf/golem individually while doing a Q+E combo on wraiths.
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On February 03 2012 16:45 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 16:34 wei2coolman wrote:On February 03 2012 16:29 Perplex wrote:On February 03 2012 16:18 valheru wrote:On February 03 2012 15:52 Niton wrote:On February 03 2012 15:48 bosiddon wrote:
why is the cooldown on zigg's q so short
why new champions always so buff Very simple, my friend. Allow me to illustrate: + Show Spoiler + Weren't viktor and sejuani pretty shit? I don't play either or their roles but I got the impression that they sucked. Release viktor was very shit. Sejuani, while still pretty bad, is at least redeemed by the fact that she has really strong initiation. She does very little damage though, which makes her a pretty bad pick even in the jungle. (Don't even get me started on her laning..) If you could build your team comp around her you might be able to force some nice engages with her dash and ult, but overall she's just outclassed by too many other heroes. Whoa guys, 4 weeks after only a handful of people playing sejuani incorrectly. Play her full tank with a focus with hp items and she scales ridiculously well into mid game with damage, and her CC keeps her strong all game long. Wait, are you implying full tank Sej does more damage than bruiser Sej
No, I'm implying that full tank sejuani is way fucking better over all. and that she'll stay alive a lot longer, ergo more likely to finish up fights. And her damage scales fairly well in early midgame. ergo you'll actually be doing some decent damage. and lategame you offer so much cc. that full tank sej >>> bruiser sej.
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On February 03 2012 16:49 BlackPaladin wrote:
Sej i think needs only slightly higher base damages early levels to quicken her jungle clear. To me, her kit is really great for arranged 5's but she suffers the problem of a slow jungler who can't keep up with a faster and more aggressive jungler in arranged play (which atm is what most teams use, such as udyr). But her utility is god-like and lategame you literally can't get away from her while she has similar initation power to ashe. She's no good in solo q just like galio though - an initiating tank with good utility but that doesn't do enough damage to outright kill someone. She's not "fun" to play for most because of that. She also has to rely on the team to not be full derp to capitalize.
Viktor was alright but his q needed to be buffed to make him on par with others, and it was. He should be on par with most champs now and I think he's a good pick like any other AP. Matchup dependant, obviously.
Why do people keep thinking shee needs higher base damage, so fucking silly. We're starting to see jungle alistar, but no one is complaining about "oh alistar needs more base dmg to clear jungle faster". And i'm 100% sure that sejuani clears faster than alistar.
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On February 03 2012 10:41 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 09:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On February 03 2012 09:36 Seuss wrote:
I think your opinion is partially due to playstyle. For example, I max E last. One rank is enough for the full duration of the stun, and I use it primarily as a tool for deterring/dealing with anyone who comes after me. The increased damage and reduced cooldown on E are significant, but most of the time you're not going to be able to position yourself to use it on an enemy carry with only 1 rank in W. Thus I max W after Q so I can constantly reposition myself and hit the high priority targets while evading the front line. don't you feel so powerless though? The difference between 1W and 5W is 25% mpen, which is a very negligible amount of damage. When Xerath came out I did the W max too but both from personal feel and seeing various streamers do it, I changed to E max which just offers more damage. At the end of the day, you're an AP carry, and you need to da stronk damagez. Not at all. I feel far more powerless with a 12-20 second cooldown on the ability that allows me to hit even well-positioned opponents than I do with a stun that does 200 less damage. Teamfights are fluid and you will need to reposition during them, but with only 1 rank in W you can easily spend the important parts of the fight with a 400 range handicap. Moreover your ability to siege turrets is reduced. Before you get a Void Staff the difference between rank 1 W and rank 5 is 18% (factoring in the mastery). At, say, 120 MR that's a 6.2% damage increase. So: 200 * (100/(100+120*.81)) = 101 damage (100/(100+120*.63)) - (100/(100+120*.81)) = .0624 101 / .0624 = 1619 damage So basically you only need to do 1600 damage with your combo to match rank 5 E. That's pretty trivial considering how much damage your combo does and the fact that you can hit multiple targets.
It sounds like your math proves your argument wrong.
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Viktor is pretty legit, his risk/reward for leveling his laser first just isnt worth it for most people.
His problem is he isn't intrinsically fun to play because he doesn't fit any super popular archtypes. He's a mage that's not particularly cool or have any kind of personality (other than he's a robot). A lot more people play ziggs because he's a yordle and until now there was only 1 other yordle mage (veigar) and they have their own little following.
Ziggs also has hilarious quotes. The main reason I play him is to taunt the enemies.
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On February 03 2012 17:21 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 16:49 BlackPaladin wrote:
Sej i think needs only slightly higher base damages early levels to quicken her jungle clear. To me, her kit is really great for arranged 5's but she suffers the problem of a slow jungler who can't keep up with a faster and more aggressive jungler in arranged play (which atm is what most teams use, such as udyr). But her utility is god-like and lategame you literally can't get away from her while she has similar initation power to ashe. She's no good in solo q just like galio though - an initiating tank with good utility but that doesn't do enough damage to outright kill someone. She's not "fun" to play for most because of that. She also has to rely on the team to not be full derp to capitalize.
Viktor was alright but his q needed to be buffed to make him on par with others, and it was. He should be on par with most champs now and I think he's a good pick like any other AP. Matchup dependant, obviously. Why do people keep thinking shee needs higher base damage, so fucking silly. We're starting to see jungle alistar, but no one is complaining about "oh alistar needs more base dmg to clear jungle faster". And i'm 100% sure that sejuani clears faster than alistar.
1: Ali has more base damage than Sej.
2: Ali's ad scales better than Sej.
4: The base damage added from Ali's passive whether he takes Q W or E is 10 magic damage per second.
7: Ali cannot be milked.
F: You're comparing Badassistar to a fucking pigmongering whore.
Nothing more need be said imo.
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EPT
