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Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place. Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch. Thanks. Neo, 31.01.12 |
+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2012 10:41 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 09:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On February 03 2012 09:36 Seuss wrote:
I think your opinion is partially due to playstyle. For example, I max E last. One rank is enough for the full duration of the stun, and I use it primarily as a tool for deterring/dealing with anyone who comes after me. The increased damage and reduced cooldown on E are significant, but most of the time you're not going to be able to position yourself to use it on an enemy carry with only 1 rank in W. Thus I max W after Q so I can constantly reposition myself and hit the high priority targets while evading the front line. don't you feel so powerless though? The difference between 1W and 5W is 25% mpen, which is a very negligible amount of damage. When Xerath came out I did the W max too but both from personal feel and seeing various streamers do it, I changed to E max which just offers more damage. At the end of the day, you're an AP carry, and you need to da stronk damagez. Not at all. I feel far more powerless with a 12-20 second cooldown on the ability that allows me to hit even well-positioned opponents than I do with a stun that does 200 less damage. Teamfights are fluid and you will need to reposition during them, but with only 1 rank in W you can easily spend the important parts of the fight with a 400 range handicap. Moreover your ability to siege turrets is reduced. Before you get a Void Staff the difference between rank 1 W and rank 5 is 18% (factoring in the mastery). At, say, 120 MR that's a 6.2% damage increase. So: 200 * (100/(100+120*.81)) = 101 damage (100/(100+120*.63)) - (100/(100+120*.81)) = .0624 101 / .0624 = 1619 damage So basically you only need to do 1600 damage with your combo to match rank 5 E. That's pretty trivial considering how much damage your combo does and the fact that you can hit multiple targets.
But at around mid game lvl11 when you want to put out the most damage, their AP or AD carries are still stacking damage and not building any MR, so the %Mpen is not as effective as extra damage from max E
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On the topic of Caitlyn's Passive, I did get a crit for 2606 damage earlier today on the blue golem. Was pretty amusing to see.
20 stack SotO, IE, BT, BT, BT (Last two not fully stacked though), With the right team I'm sure you could get a decent bit higher (baron buff, taric ultimate, sona q aura, GP raise morale, vladimir ultimate, red pot).
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On February 03 2012 13:39 Alzadar wrote:
What's the verdict on Zeke's? To me it feels like the aura is much much weaker than before, and most supports don't really need to buy yet another Ruby Crystal. The cost is slightly less but it's so much weaker as a result.
The whole idea of removing Recurve Bow so that it's made of small pieces doesn't really work either. Now instead of having a useless 1050 item in my inventory I have two useless 450 items in my inventory... Oh boy, I can buy a Dagger! Even on support Ashe that's not very handy. Seriously, the lifesteal aura is down to almost half of what it was and they just straight up removed the armor shred aura, which was the main benefit and the only real unique thing about the item.
I think it's an item for your sustainless supports like Leona/Yorick/GP/Blitz purely because a Cloth/1 Ward/2 Pot start can actually work out pretty decent for them now and if you get the Emblem fairly early it's a nice bit of regen, I don't think you'll ever see it on any of the regular sustain supports however.
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I was thinking of the viability of using Zeke's on a manaless champion since it only has stats they can use and has cooldown reduction which is a very desirable stat for them. The lifesteal and attack speed are certainly far less useful on a few of the manaless champions (Garen mostly, obviously it's a bad item for Katarina if she's not doing some sort of troll AD build) but I can see it being good on the others (Riven, Shyvana, Tryndamere, Renekton) I guess the question is whether or not the math works out and whether it's worth wasting an item slot on something with 0 AD.
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On February 03 2012 14:00 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 13:39 Alzadar wrote:
What's the verdict on Zeke's? To me it feels like the aura is much much weaker than before, and most supports don't really need to buy yet another Ruby Crystal. The cost is slightly less but it's so much weaker as a result.
The whole idea of removing Recurve Bow so that it's made of small pieces doesn't really work either. Now instead of having a useless 1050 item in my inventory I have two useless 450 items in my inventory... Oh boy, I can buy a Dagger! Even on support Ashe that's not very handy. Seriously, the lifesteal aura is down to almost half of what it was and they just straight up removed the armor shred aura, which was the main benefit and the only real unique thing about the item. I think it's an item for your sustainless supports like Leona/Yorick/GP/Blitz purely because a Cloth/1 Ward/2 Pot start can actually work out pretty decent for them now and if you get the Emblem fairly early it's a nice bit of regen, I don't think you'll ever see it on any of the regular sustain supports however.
pretty sure emblem doesn't build into zeke's
main benefit of starks was +aspd, +lifesteal being imba. The armor shred was cool, but by the time you get starks the -20 armor is meh unless your team is running a ton of flat armor pen stuff. honestly, i think this was overall a buff in that it's easier to get, but it's still really awkward for supports to grab considering dagger+vamp scepter is more or less worthless for a support.
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Lulz, Saint smite steals baron twice in one game with Warwick.
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This saint game...... suppress the lee sin so he cant smite then steal baron. Hahahahaha.
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Is there anything wrong with building typical AD (BT/IE/PD) on champs you otherwise wouldn't? For instance if you were Ezreal with like Singed top Lee jungle and Kennen mid Soraka support what's to stop you from hogging blue after laning phase and just building typical AD for better lategame damage?
Or how about Corki? I know his rockets are very good poke tools but is Corki really so bad if you build hi straight damage?
I can kinda see Urgot with him not really being a ranged AD in a sense, more of a ranged tanky bruiser-type, but more specifically talking about the aforementioned ADs.
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On February 03 2012 14:13 Bwaaaa wrote:
This saint game...... suppress the lee sin so he cant smite then steal baron. Hahahahaha.
This may be the most entertaining game I've ever watched
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On February 03 2012 14:14 Zdrastochye wrote:
Is there anything wrong with building typical AD (BT/IE/PD) on champs you otherwise wouldn't? For instance if you were Ezreal with like Singed top Lee jungle and Kennen mid Soraka support what's to stop you from hogging blue after laning phase and just building typical AD for better lategame damage?
Or how about Corki? I know his rockets are very good poke tools but is Corki really so bad if you build hi straight damage?
I can kinda see Urgot with him not really being a ranged AD in a sense, more of a ranged tanky bruiser-type, but more specifically talking about the aforementioned ADs.
Most AD carry players build Corki straight up AD. Most AD carry players don't play Ez too much (except in China apparently).
You could probably build Ez as a straight AD but I think his mid game would be a bit weaker without rushing Trinity.
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No clue bout ez since I don't play him at all.
Corki can certainly just build IE/BT/PD and skip Triforce. Going IE/PD gives you much stronger sustained damage. On the other hand, Triforce gives you better burst, a little survivability, and a nice slow, which synergizes really well with your E and can be a good self-peel. Personally, I think Triforce is better since Corki is a bit of a nuker/spell spammer early game and Triforce is efficient all game long, especially since Corki has no problem having a Triforce proc every time it's off cooldown. Some people prefer IE/PD. It's situational and depends on what you want.
Urgot can be built pure AD or you can build him tanky/cdr. It's situational and up to your playstyle. For example, in CLG.eu v. aAa today Yellowpete built Urgot cdr/tanky and he did pretty well.
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That game was entirely lee sins fault for standing in ww ult range.
Also they talking about how cass is going to need to be nerfed eventually.
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That game, holy shit. I started watching it when saint was 1-8 and their team was 12-30, totally didn't see them winning it :D Sooo much throwing all over the place
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United States37500 Posts
On February 03 2012 13:24 r.Evo wrote:Damn why did you ask that, I was about to set an awesome (unplanned) example in two posts. The Kennen thread is kinda out of date (last OP update August 2k11) and there isn't that much input on masteries/runes/matchups in the OP and last few pages. Can someone who is good at that bitch take a look at it pretty please? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=248782¤tpage=7(Am I doing this right Neo or should I have waited whether people answer in the Kennen thread or not? =S) PS: Originally we tried to compare Cait passive and Kennen W but if Caits passive can crit that's fucking huge, especially cause it's AD dmg on top. thx. <3
You're doing it right. Perfectly fine to bump GD to ask for more discussion in a certain champ thread.
I encourage it.
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Why has saint been playing Nunu so much recently? I watch his stream from time to time and it still looks incredibly unremarkable anytime he does it. Blood Boil late game on a good ad carry is obviously kinda' sick, but prior to that he just feels so weak since his damage output seems so low. Is he doing it just to amuse himself in solo queue or does he think there's a legitimate spot for him in competitive play?
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Just played my first game with Ashe since the buffs(and since forever) and... I think she's really strong now! I lost my lane slightly vs sivir taric but it was still okay and I got farmed, but in the midgame teamfights, holy crap! They volley spam and the permaslow made it super difficult for the enemy Shyvana to even think about going for me, no one could run away, and had some arrows that completely turned the game around I think...
I'm guessing people are going to start playing her a lot more now. Really feels good.
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On February 03 2012 14:52 Shikyo wrote:
Just played my first game with Ashe since the buffs(and since forever) and... I think she's really strong now! I lost my lane slightly vs sivir taric but it was still okay and I got farmed, but in the midgame teamfights, holy crap! They volley spam and the permaslow made it super difficult for the enemy Shyvana to even think about going for me, no one could run away, and had some arrows that completely turned the game around I think...
I'm guessing people are going to start playing her a lot more now. Really feels good.
How can you call Ashes midgame stronger when it was the early W levels which got buffed? =S
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Little bit of ori on salce's stream atm.
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On February 03 2012 14:54 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 14:52 Shikyo wrote:
Just played my first game with Ashe since the buffs(and since forever) and... I think she's really strong now! I lost my lane slightly vs sivir taric but it was still okay and I got farmed, but in the midgame teamfights, holy crap! They volley spam and the permaslow made it super difficult for the enemy Shyvana to even think about going for me, no one could run away, and had some arrows that completely turned the game around I think...
I'm guessing people are going to start playing her a lot more now. Really feels good. How can you call Ashes midgame stronger when it was the early W levels which got buffed? =S
Because when the person you're playing against is awful and doesn't completely dominate you in lane the game turns out well. Anybody playing her now is just a stupid sheep who saw she got buffed. The buffs Ashe got are a joke and if you thought she wasn't viable before the patch, nothing has changed.
All of Ashe's numbers are still less than other AD carries if you actually look at them (besides like 20 extra health now). She has no steroid. She has no escape. When you play ashe you better be damn sure your team can peel for you or that you just won't get dived in the first place. Your arrows better be game winning too because that's all Ashe is good at.
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Here we go again with "sheep."
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EPT
