EPTHigh resistence to enemy attacks and be able to annoy the team in teamfights, eg; tanking (soaking damage) in a teamfight and ruining positioning on your ranged AD carry, while dealing very minor amount of damage.
[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 194
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
High resistence to enemy attacks and be able to annoy the team in teamfights, eg; tanking (soaking damage) in a teamfight and ruining positioning on your ranged AD carry, while dealing very minor amount of damage. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 13 2012 16:34 Norada wrote: if any 1800+ team is looking for a support player id be interested in playing. play during aussie hours though @sethrakill, can you give a certain timeframe when the tourney will run? If it's an hour we can make it might be enough to awaken the scary european powers of [NYAN] and we will find ways to teach how world will end. Edit: On January 13 2012 22:33 Alzadar wrote: The way I see it all champions can be placed a grid where the axes are Carry --- Support and Tanky --- Squishy. "Tanks" are characters that fall under tanky supports. This is fucking gold. Make this grid with champs in it and kick riots categories in the nuts. I'm all for it. =D | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Burst --- DPS Short Range --- Huge Range Low Mobility --- High Mobility | ||
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Lounge
537 Posts
On January 13 2012 22:33 Alzadar wrote: The way I see it all champions can be placed a grid where the axes are Carry --- Support and Tanky --- Squishy. "Tanks" are characters that fall under tanky supports. That really is a great idea. The problem is characters that can be built multiple ways, like Warmogs Nidalee vs Pure AP Nidalee. Ones a tanky dps the others more of a support squishy. You'd either have to put champions on multiple times or settle for something in between that really doesn't compliment where either build is placed. And once you start going that far it starts to get real complicated as to what defines a carry, is it an AP carry or AD carry, etc. and then it loses its luster because the reason it sounds so great in the first place is that it's so simplistic. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 13 2012 23:16 spinesheath wrote: Needs more than 2 dimensions for proper classification though. Burst --- DPS Short Range --- Huge Range Low Mobility --- High Mobility +Tanky --- Squishy +Damage --- utility Let's make some math major happy with 5+ dimensions. Edit: SIMPLISTIC? Fuck that, let's make it as complicate as possible so you can always argue that someone else in your team is wrong because somewhere in the internet it says so. Also I should maybe stop posting in the "does nationality matter?" thread with a semi-trolling attitude and then coming here with the same mood directly after. t.t | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
On January 13 2012 22:20 RogerX wrote: When I think tank, I think Singed. High resistence to enemy attacks and be able to annoy the team in teamfights, eg; tanking (soaking damage) in a teamfight and ruining positioning on your ranged AD carry, while dealing very minor amount of damage. Singed does a hell of a lot of damage. So does amumu, especially with some AP like abyssal. Rammus does very high damage with his ulti especially if you taunt an AD with W up, and has a good AD steriod. Shen has pretty damn high burst and a consistent nuke. Irelias very, very bursty. When her stuff is on CD she has absolutely no damage steriods at all. Same as say malphite or galio. Galio also does tons of damage with AP. The common thing I find about tanks is that when they are under fed they ONLY have the option of doing what you said makes them tanks. They just use the galio ult/shen ult+taunt/amumu ult/malphite ult+run to AD carry with E/Rammus powerball taunt +ulti. However, if you ever get farmed//fed on tanks they do tons of damage and don't die either. Kind of like "tanky dps". From my point of view tanky dps and tank are synonomous. I think phreak classified cho as a "tanky dps" when he's no more of a tanky dps than say galio or something. Except cho has both an AS steriod and AP ratios. I guess you can make the difference by "tanks have high base damage - tanky dps have high scaling". Would explain why you'd consider riven a tanky dps while rammus isn't. However, how would you call jarvan or irelia a tanky dps and not a tank? They both rely on CDs to do their damage. You can say they auto attack a fair bit but so does rammus, shen and malphite. Irelia's trinity builds don't make her a tanky dps it's just an item. You can do the same thing on shen and you are pretty similar to irelia with trinity in terms of damage. (no true damage though, but you do heal off Q) Normally people who think tanks don't do damage haven't actually played tanks that much. If singed didn't do any damage, he wouldn't soak any damage, because people would ignore him. Fact is squishies cant stand in singed poison without losing like half their health before they can kill anyone. Especially when singed fling is a pretty big nuke at level 5 especially with some AP. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 13 2012 23:34 Slayer91 wrote: Singed does a hell of a lot of damage. So does amumu, especially with some AP like abyssal. Rammus does very high damage with his ulti especially if you taunt an AD with W up, and has a good AD steriod. Shen has pretty damn high burst and a consistent nuke. Irelias very, very bursty. When her stuff is on CD she has absolutely no damage steriods at all. Same as say malphite or galio. Galio also does tons of damage with AP. The common thing I find about tanks is that when they are under fed they ONLY have the option of doing what you said makes them tanks. They just use the galio ult/shen ult+taunt/amumu ult/malphite ult+run to AD carry with E/Rammus powerball taunt +ulti. However, if you ever get farmed//fed on tanks they do tons of damage and don't die either. Kind of like "tanky dps". From my point of view tanky dps and tank are synonomous. I think phreak classified cho as a "tanky dps" when he's no more of a tanky dps than say galio or something. Except cho has both an AS steriod and AP ratios. I guess you can make the difference by "tanks have high base damage - tanky dps have high scaling". Would explain why you'd consider riven a tanky dps while rammus isn't. However, how would you call jarvan or irelia a tanky dps and not a tank? They both rely on CDs to do their damage. You can say they auto attack a fair bit but so does rammus, shen and malphite. Irelia's trinity builds don't make her a tanky dps it's just an item. You can do the same thing on shen and you are pretty similar to irelia with trinity in terms of damage. (no true damage though, but you do heal off Q) Normally people who think tanks don't do damage haven't actually played tanks that much. If singed didn't do any damage, he wouldn't soak any damage, because people would ignore him. Fact is squishies cant stand in singed poison without losing like half their health before they can kill anyone. Especially when singed fling is a pretty big nuke at level 5 especially with some AP. I usually like to think that "tanks" are champions that can still perform their main duty (initiating/peeling) properly, even when underfed. "Tanky dps" try to peel/initiate by being a huge threat in terms of damage in the enemies face and perform rather horribly when underfed. Like a 0-4 Irelia isn't scary, a 0-4 Malph/Rammus (or even Jarman) can still get that crucial cc off to enable his team to wtfpwn the enemies. Edit: I feel like a tanky dps that's behind plays more like a vulture kassadin in teamfights since they aren't as tanky usually but still can rely on high burst from skills alone. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
On January 13 2012 23:42 r.Evo wrote: I usually like to think that "tanks" are champions that can still perform their main duty (initiating/peeling) properly, even when underfed. "Tanky dps" try to peel/initiate by being a huge threat in terms of damage in the enemies face and perform rather horribly when underfed. Like a 0-4 Irelia isn't scary, a 0-4 Malph/Rammus (or even Jarman) can still get that crucial cc off to enable his team to wtfpwn the enemies. Edit: I feel like a tanky dps that's behind plays more like a vulture kassadin in teamfights since they aren't as tanky usually but still can rely on high burst from skills alone. Utility is King! | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 13 2012 23:16 spinesheath wrote: Needs more than 2 dimensions for proper classification though. Burst --- DPS Short Range --- Huge Range Low Mobility --- High Mobility Except if it's for classifying champion role, those aren't necessarily useful. I don't care if my support has higher burst damage or is more sustained damage. They're still going to be classified as a support no matter how you slice it. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
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Mondieu
Romania803 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 14 2012 00:15 Mondieu wrote: What's platinum ? 2000 elo ? Should be 1900. The secret elite of 0.2% of all players. (Am I the only one who is sad knowing how much he sucks after entering elo bracket X?) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
On January 14 2012 00:13 TheYango wrote: Except if it's for classifying champion role, those aren't necessarily useful. I don't care if my support has higher burst damage or is more sustained damage. They're still going to be classified as a support no matter how you slice it. What? He was classifying every champion in terms of survivability and damage vs utility. It wasn't about carry or support. So he's saying a "tank" is high utility high survivability. A "support" is mid survivability and high utility. A 'carry" is high damage and low survivability and a "tanky dps" is mid-high survivability and mid-high damage. I don't particularly agree with this categories but they are decently functional. In terms of "carry" burst damage vs sustained damage is AD carry vs AP carry which are extremely different roles so it's pretty important. Range is the difference between tanky dps and carries. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oevta/jax_remake_by_the_numbers/ And the TL;DR: TL:DR Base Stats: Base HP raised from 423 to 463 HP per level raised from 83 to 88 Base Mana raised from 200 to 230 Spells/Skills: Passive (Relentless Assault): 4 / 6 / 8 / 10% per stack, stacking up to 6 times. Upgrades at 6 / 11 / 16. Still lasts 2.5 seconds until stacks are lost. Leap Strike: Cooldown modified to 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 from 13 / 11 / 9 / 7 / 5 Empower: Cooldown modified to 9 / 7.5 / 6 / 4.5 / 3 from 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 Counterstrike: Cooldown is 22 / 20 / 18 / 16 / 14. Grandmaster’s Might: CD Could be (90)/75/60 *these are approximates Health bump is nice from losing the passive, don't know how much AD/AP that's worth with the old one. It looks like at 18 his base went from 2047 from 1917, so a ~130 jump? I'd prefer Passive to be 10% at all levels, but meh. Q and W lower CDs, should be nice. Counterstrike's CD is saddening. I mean, yeah, minor damage ignoring and a reliable AoE stun, but 14 seconds at max is kind of oppressive. 60 seconds on a nice ult steroid is reasonable, imo. | ||
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Norada
China482 Posts
On January 13 2012 23:59 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Sigh, always one win away from platinum, never platinum. that's what happens when their jungler is 2x stronger than ours :p | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
a tank-support like ali/leona/taric is probably only there to soak up damage and to CC. The only reason for them go draw aggression would be the pure annoyingness and the mere fact that they are just right there in front of you. this type itemizes towards support, defense and CDR. a tank-bruiser is probably the hardest to kill type like singed, skarner, amumu, rammus, yorick... They all deal some type of huge sustained damage coupled with some CC. This type scales very well with gold in both ways: often they have some decent ratios or some kind of steroid and in the other hand they can also buy alot of tanky stuff since they dont rely on burst. You don't want to kill this type early in the fight, because their damage is not carry level, but you kinda have to. there are other types ppl call 'tanky-dps' like tryndamere, riven, garen etc. but those champs dont really want to be tanky at all. Their kits often give them either something to avoid or to soak damage, but most of their use is their damage output and not their utility. A bruiser just jumps into the middle of the opponents team. But this type here doesnt really want to do that, he wants to deal a fuckton of damage. Those are really melee carries, because they need to farm as much defense they need and as much damage they can get, else they will be of no use. Ofc they seem to be what people call 'tanky-dps' because melees have to soak alot more damage than ranged types. But the way they are played and itemized has nothing to do with tanks at all. In the other hand you can argue that it is possible to carry with a bruiser type I described above. But a rammus will still be of use as long as he catches that guy with his taunt even without farm. In the other hand he will never carry as hard as a fully built riven/tryndamere who have almost no utility. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Tanky dps, Support, Ranged Ad, and Caster. Thats it. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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