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On October 20 2011 00:09 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 00:08 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 20 2011 00:05 Phrost wrote:
Okay so I'm going to make a bold statement here and say Graves is one of the best supports that a ranged AD can have bottom. Before you think I'm gravely mistaken, take a look at his skill set. He's naturally tankier and has range, those two combined are never bad, ever. Second, he has one of the best skills in the game for a ranged dps and incoming jungler to abuse (smoke grenade). Now couple his mobility for blocking potentially killer skill shots and his ridiculously high base damage and stats (Q has base damage of 250@5, W is like 300@5 i think, E is 90% ASP, and R is 500 damage initial hit, 400 damage behind @ 3) makes him a real force to be reckoned with later game.
He also synergies well with cc that most ranged dps bring to the table. Imagine the amount of rage people will experience from exiting a smoke grenade into a yordle trap that they cant see, or trying to deal with Kog's long range + slow and Graves chasing behind them with EQ.
Also I'm pretty sure the feeling I get from playing Graves is a lot like the troll berserker in dota, except hes not stupid broken in melee mode, and is halfway decent after lvl 6 in ranged So why run dual ad and not just run Graves with a non healer support like blitz or leona? Graves can safely push towers and if you have a tank in the jungle or top then you don't get another tank
But why Graves? He has no innate cc, cant heal, and without farm would just kinda be useless late game. If your convinced that you wanna run dual ad bot, why not run teemo, someone who actually has use without farm.
Otherwise why not just run an ad with an aggressive support who can actually cc?
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United States37500 Posts
Can't imagine Graves as a support. W is his only skill remotely support like and it'd still be a one point wonder. Its only utility it sounds like would be anti gank. Even so, how would he deal with the sustain from typical supports?
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On October 20 2011 00:14 unichan wrote:
Good god why don't we just make every champ a support
Because then I have nothing to kill supports with. Honestly the characters that can be played as support and there actual role makes me happy. It just shows depth of power in those character.
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On October 20 2011 00:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
Can't imagine Graves as a support. W is his only skill remotely support like and it'd still be a one point wonder. Its only utility it sounds like would be anti gank. Even so, how would he deal with the sustain from typical supports?
His numbers make me want to say you'd be able to punish any harassing pretty easily, he's got the durability of taric with 550 range. It's kind of absurd
His "support" is just his base damages in lane, his ability to punish the enemy with another ranged dps is pretty high. If anyone gets close enough for him to dash next to, they're going to eat ~300-400 damage easily with buckshot
edit: with 0 bonus AD, buckshot will do 425 damage before applying armor at close range
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United States37500 Posts
Ghost Noc looks so bad ass. If I only had RP... zz
He needs a white dusk trail though. I think he's going to be the best seller out of the four Halloween skins.
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Well considering hes pretty cheap and hes pretty damn awesome, I think so too.
However, I bought Nidalee x3
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On October 20 2011 00:23 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ghost Noc looks so bad ass. If I only had RP... zz
He needs a white dusk trail though. I think he's going to be the best seller out of the four Halloween skins.
4/4 nidalee's I've seen so far have the witch skin
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On October 20 2011 00:18 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 00:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
Can't imagine Graves as a support. W is his only skill remotely support like and it'd still be a one point wonder. Its only utility it sounds like would be anti gank. Even so, how would he deal with the sustain from typical supports? His numbers make me want to say you'd be able to punish any harassing pretty easily, he's got the durability of taric with 550 range. It's kind of absurd His "support" is just his base damages in lane, his ability to punish the enemy with another ranged dps is pretty high. If anyone gets close enough for him to dash next to, they're going to eat ~300-400 damage easily with buckshot edit: with 0 bonus AD, buckshot will do 425 damage before applying armor at close range
That argument can be applied to any ranged AD though. Hell, support Ez brings two strong pokes (Q with no items still does a respectable amount of damage and W base is strong and goes through minions), an ult to drop creep waves low for last hits, and strong autos. He can support the AD too!
Damage shouldn't really be a consideration for a support. Smokescreen is the only real "support" spell he has, everything else is dps.
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Bewitched nidalee is pretty cool tbh. Nothing beats the cat in the hat.
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In theory Graves is going to completely rape Kog in lane. Stay in combat (out of range) to get max passive, and dash in E, W, auto + Q for insane burst, and Kog can't even hit you. If you combine this with some sort of cc (exhaust or Janna slow/knockup especially good) or high burst (Sona passive with her Q) you essentially force flash. Vayne/Cait/Trist all at least have ways to escape the smokebomb, but Kog is screwed.
EDIT: I wonder how good he is at killing supports actually. His passive and smokebomb lets him take less damage from the AD, and if Graves + support 2v1's the enemy support it could get ugly. Especially with Ali flash combo or Taric. If I'm laning against Graves I'd probably stay very close to my laning partner to avoid getting zoned by somebomb.
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On October 20 2011 00:26 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 00:18 Phrost wrote:On October 20 2011 00:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
Can't imagine Graves as a support. W is his only skill remotely support like and it'd still be a one point wonder. Its only utility it sounds like would be anti gank. Even so, how would he deal with the sustain from typical supports? His numbers make me want to say you'd be able to punish any harassing pretty easily, he's got the durability of taric with 550 range. It's kind of absurd His "support" is just his base damages in lane, his ability to punish the enemy with another ranged dps is pretty high. If anyone gets close enough for him to dash next to, they're going to eat ~300-400 damage easily with buckshot edit: with 0 bonus AD, buckshot will do 425 damage before applying armor at close range That argument can be applied to any ranged AD though. Hell, support Ez brings two strong pokes (Q with no items still does a respectable amount of damage and W base is strong and goes through minions), an ult to drop creep waves low for last hits, and strong autos. He can support the AD too! Damage shouldn't really be a consideration for a support. Smokescreen is the only real "support" spell he has, everything else is dps.
Except ezreal is made of spit and news paper, Grave isn't. Graves is a truly gritty champion.
And ezreal's q does pretty piss poor damage with no items
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United States37500 Posts
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DRAMAAA my favorite thing about e-sports. Drama doesn't kill e-sports, it keeps it interesting. It's like reading about a celebrity's life!
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On October 20 2011 00:29 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 00:26 Requizen wrote:On October 20 2011 00:18 Phrost wrote:On October 20 2011 00:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
Can't imagine Graves as a support. W is his only skill remotely support like and it'd still be a one point wonder. Its only utility it sounds like would be anti gank. Even so, how would he deal with the sustain from typical supports? His numbers make me want to say you'd be able to punish any harassing pretty easily, he's got the durability of taric with 550 range. It's kind of absurd His "support" is just his base damages in lane, his ability to punish the enemy with another ranged dps is pretty high. If anyone gets close enough for him to dash next to, they're going to eat ~300-400 damage easily with buckshot edit: with 0 bonus AD, buckshot will do 425 damage before applying armor at close range That argument can be applied to any ranged AD though. Hell, support Ez brings two strong pokes (Q with no items still does a respectable amount of damage and W base is strong and goes through minions), an ult to drop creep waves low for last hits, and strong autos. He can support the AD too! Damage shouldn't really be a consideration for a support. Smokescreen is the only real "support" spell he has, everything else is dps. Except ezreal is made of spit and news paper, Grave isn't. Graves is a truly gritty champion. And ezreal's q does pretty piss poor damage with no items
It's a good amount of damage considering the stupid range on it. If you want to make the argument of "ranged ADs playing as support", Ez has a zoning nuke (Q), a strong base nuke with a debuff (W), a super long range ult with high base damage, and mobility enough to never get hit.
Buff your AD carry with W to help farm/poke/tower kills, hit enemy AD carry with it to win skirmishes/prevent tower kills/poke through minion waves. R to finish off runners for your lane partner. You never even have to be in range.
While I'd never actually advocate this (though it's starting to sound super cool), it's a similar idea to yours. Saying "because he's tough and has high base damage" is about as confusing as saying "Ez has super long range and high base damage". Neither is designed to support.
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Halloween Quints: Tier 2, select "limited availability".
AP, Dodge, MSpd, APen, MPen, HP.
495 or 995 IP each, and 5-10% weaker than the T3 versions.
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On October 20 2011 00:37 spinesheath wrote:
Halloween Quints: Tier 2, select "limited availability".
AP, Dodge, MSpd, APen, MPen, HP.
495 or 995 IP each, and 5-10% weaker than the T3 versions.
Aren't these the same ones from last year?
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I missed the whole Phantomlord / v8 drama - can someone please link Phantomlord's POV? I saw the games and he played pretty terribly, and heard that he played even though his team wanted to sub him out. I don't know the aftermath.
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United States37500 Posts
Check SotL roundtable. I haven't seen it myself but apparently Phantom went on it last week and trashed v8.
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do you have link to the story from the other guys pov? this is some good drama :D
sounds a lot like all the drama that went around the wow scene back when people were pushing for it to be an esport. the lack of decent team management meant teams often had players 'go rogue' and just fuck around when they were criticized for poor play, dragging their team down with them. then running off to another team when their contract was done : D
its part of the reason wow never survived. along with all the well used arguments there was no stability in the scene because team swaps were so common that no one ever reached the level of the korean team who had played together in the same comp for years. even then the koreans were playing a 'second tier' comp they won tourneys due to team work and hard work. typical that the korean work ethic carried them through hard times eh : D
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On October 20 2011 00:44 Sandster wrote:
I missed the whole Phantomlord / v8 drama - can someone please link Phantomlord's POV? I saw the games and he played pretty terribly, and heard that he played even though his team wanted to sub him out. I don't know the aftermath.
My understanding was his position was "I created the team I dont care if I'm the weakest player you arent subbing me out."
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EPT
