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What was really interesting was no Ashe play. Considering what the season 1 finals were like in terms of how important she was, clearly higher burst is valued higher now.
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On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no.
Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked:
+ Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
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On October 12 2011 01:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
What was really interesting was no Ashe play. Considering what the season 1 finals were like in terms of how important she was, clearly higher burst is valued higher now.
CLG could have picked Ashe over kogmaw both games. Ashe seems like easy food for Akali but ultimately, I think the initiation power of ashe would let Galio and Kennen invade territories much easier instead of having to run so retardedly ahead that the back row gets isolated completely.
Janna alone should be able to keep Akali away from Ashe. Elementz just had bad reactions on R and didn't follow it up with Q to interrupt the second shadow dance.
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On October 12 2011 01:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no. Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked: + Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
But in a competitive setting, where each ban is very valuable, is it worth wasting one on a champion that can be countered fairly easily by someone like talon, akali, or kass.
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So im debating Trundle or Fiddlesticks as my next jungler. Any suggestions on which is better/prefered?
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So after the discussion of how broken the gunblade is I decided to do some testing last night. I used the most scientific testing methods, played dominion and insta-locked random, then proceeded to build a gunblade first. To my suprise the gunblade will work with any champion pretty much on that map.
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United States17233 Posts
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On October 12 2011 01:17 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no. Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked: + Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
But in a competitive setting, where each ban is very valuable, is it worth wasting one on a champion that can be countered fairly easily by someone like talon, akali, or kass.
I don't think it's that easy to shut down Kog'Maw. If you have a dedicated cc team he can become unstoppable. Nobody who played Kog'Maw had a team where all four players on the team could protect him so he didn't shine.
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On October 12 2011 01:19 Sabin010 wrote:
So after the discussion of how broken the gunblade is I decided to do some testing last night. I used the most scientific testing methods, played dominion and insta-locked random, then proceeded to build a gunblade first. To my suprise the gunblade will work with any champion pretty much on that map.
Any item works with any champion on that map.
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On October 12 2011 01:19 Sabin010 wrote:
So after the discussion of how broken the gunblade is I decided to do some testing last night. I used the most scientific testing methods, played dominion and insta-locked random, then proceeded to build a gunblade first. To my suprise the gunblade will work with any champion pretty much on that map.
Ah, I see. A modified Trinity Force Test for Brokenness.
A few points about your methodology. The TFTB typically uses SR as a basis because it takes into account farmability, a key part of any broken item or champion. While Dom does allow for quicker testing, it does skew the findings a little bit, as well as does the passive arm/spell pen.
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On October 12 2011 01:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no. Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked: + Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
this might be stupid, but if you could trade kogmaw for another AD isnt that a big win for your team? you trade 1 for 1 then kogmaw explodes for bonus damage, that seems like a good trade off? vayne is a bad example because ult + q = 2 seconds or so of stealth but you know what i mean
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On October 12 2011 01:22 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:17 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 01:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no. Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked: + Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
But in a competitive setting, where each ban is very valuable, is it worth wasting one on a champion that can be countered fairly easily by someone like talon, akali, or kass. I don't think it's that easy to shut down Kog'Maw. If you have a dedicated cc team he can become unstoppable. Nobody who played Kog'Maw had a team where all four players on the team could protect him so he didn't shine.
Thats kinda my point. Kog needs a full team around him, and even then it is possible to take him out if a team is coordinated enough. Then the problem becomes how do you kill the enemy team without kog, even if he is able to take down 1 or 2 of the enemies before he inevitably dies.
Dont get me wrong, I think kog is a decent champion. I just think it is a HIGHLY risky pick that no one really gives that much credit too.
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I think in 5s Cait > Kog slightly = Ashe, Tris/Ez/Vayne are niche champs that depends heavily on how familiar the player is with those champs. Vayne/Ashe/Kog all need special supports, Cait does not. Cait probably does the least damage late game with the same items as the other ADs, but she's the most dominant in lane and the easiest to get ahead with. I see no reason whatosever to pick MF. Sivir and Urgot are both underused. With a sustain babysitter Sivir should not lose bot lane ever, same with Urgot with any support. Sivir's combined damage output with richochet is probably the greatest out of all the ADs. She also solo pushes the fastest and the best farmer.
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The reason akali killed kog is because saint and jiji both were playing like a bunch of retards, ofc kog can't be protected against akali if saint and jiji chase something worthless.
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Why not just accept the fact you're going to die as KogMaw and just take teleport and revive. That way you can blow up on some one and teleport back in with out losing much experience.
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MF would be a strong champion if her damn Q didn't cost so much mana.
75 mana for a physical damage poke is stupid when Ezreal's Q costs 30, pantheon's spear costs 45 and gp's parlayy costs 40. Even caitlyn's Q only costs 50.
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if you want to pick kog you just pick a dedicated peeler too
udyr jungle is marvelous for kog
alistar support is fantastic for kog
something like rammus who's more of an initiator/in-your-face jungler is worse for protecting kog, as is someone with low CC like pirate or olaf. sona's a toss-up: on one hand her ult is not being used well if you just use it to peel but on the other, her damage reduction power chord is like the ultimate kog protector when used in tandem with an exhaust
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On October 12 2011 01:28 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no. Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked: + Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
this might be stupid, but if you could trade kogmaw for another AD isnt that a big win for your team? you trade 1 for 1 then kogmaw explodes for bonus damage, that seems like a good trade off? vayne is a bad example because ult + q = 2 seconds or so of stealth but you know what i mean
Because if you're playing a Kog'Maw composition he probably does almost all of your team's damage. A decked out Kog'Maw does more damage than a decked out Vayne as well as long as W isn't on cooldown, especially since you typically build a Vayne for mid game (Black Cleaver).
On October 12 2011 01:30 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:22 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 12 2011 01:17 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 01:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 12 2011 00:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On October 12 2011 00:46 -Zoda- wrote:On October 12 2011 00:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 11 2011 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Little bit of interesting info I noticed over the weekend, then just went back and checked. I had noticed that Ezreal was picked quite a bit, and looked mostly useless the entire time- his damage just didnt seem to matter all that much as I was watching. So I went back and looked.
Ez- 7 games played, 2-5.
Vayne- 9 games, 5-4
Cait, Banned 8 times, 5-0 when played.
So ya- if you wanna win IEM this weekend, dont pick ez.
Also interesting- Kog was banned 10 times, made it through 4 times. 0-4. But did Kog'Maw lose because he's a bad hero or because he didn't have a good team to keep him alive? I think it's the latter personally. Definitely. The fact that Kog as 0 escapes makes him extremely vulnerable, you can farm like a boss (see Chaox) and have the scariest dps, you're not gonna do anything if bursted by an assassin. I think it's why we tend to see Vayne a lot more, she has as scary damage as Kog but is wayyy more mobile (and her E can be some kind of escape too). Ez is more on some utility side I think, with his atk speed steroid, his poke, his ultimate... The real question is is it POSSIBLE to protect kog in a competitive setting. Over one weekend, the answer is no. Of the four games where Kogmaw was picked: + Show Spoiler [IPL3] +
CLG vs. Goose
I didn't actually get a chance to watch the games the first day cause I was out of town, but I'm going to assume CLG outplayed Goose. If somebody else wants to give some insight on this feel free.
CLG vs. Dignitas (both games)
Dignitas had Akali both games and Akali raped Kog'Maw. I am not going to suggest it's easy to protect Kog'Maw versus an Akali, but it's definitely not impossible. I feel like CLG got outplayed both games regardless, especially the second game where they picked the exact same composition.
TSM vs. EG
The final game was an epic struggle and I think it could have gone either way. I don't think TSM had a good composition to protect Kog'Maw though. When you're trading your Kog'Maw for Vayne I think you're doing it wrong.
But in a competitive setting, where each ban is very valuable, is it worth wasting one on a champion that can be countered fairly easily by someone like talon, akali, or kass. I don't think it's that easy to shut down Kog'Maw. If you have a dedicated cc team he can become unstoppable. Nobody who played Kog'Maw had a team where all four players on the team could protect him so he didn't shine. Thats kinda my point. Kog needs a full team around him, and even then it is possible to take him out if a team is coordinated enough. Then the problem becomes how do you kill the enemy team without kog, even if he is able to take down 1 or 2 of the enemies before he inevitably dies. Dont get me wrong, I think kog is a decent champion. I just think it is a HIGHLY risky pick that no one really gives that much credit too.
It's definitely risky, but if you can keep Kog'Maw alive he will penta the other team.
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On October 12 2011 01:38 gtrsrs wrote:
if you want to pick kog you just pick a dedicated peeler too
udyr jungle is marvelous for kog
alistar support is fantastic for kog
something like rammus who's more of an initiator/in-your-face jungler is worse for protecting kog, as is someone with low CC like pirate or olaf. sona's a toss-up: on one hand her ult is not being used well if you just use it to peel but on the other, her damage reduction power chord is like the ultimate kog protector when used in tandem with an exhaust
The funny thing is that CLG had one of the best team comps for kogmaw (Galio + Kennen + Janna + Udyr), but instead of just straight up seiging towers with galio + kennen + kogmaw, they decide to fight in unfavorable places all day everyday.
Doesn't seem like Dignitas would have much of an answer if CLG straight up walked to a tower, letting galio bullwalk kogmaw and then have him poke it down.
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On October 12 2011 01:19 Kyhron wrote:
So im debating Trundle or Fiddlesticks as my next jungler. Any suggestions on which is better/prefered?
Trundle is amazing. His early power is SO FUCKING GOOD, his E makes poking so much easier for your team and his ult is a free baron.
Fiddlesticks is more team dependant, compared to trundle, as you can't afford to build too much AP without being tanky or your ult (cawcawcawcaw) will simply not have an affect. Fiddle is quite amazing in solo queue though.
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EPT
