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[Patch 1.0.0.125: Riven] General Discussion - Page 57

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
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UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
September 17 2011 19:14 GMT
#1121
i go wriggles if i feel i'm not in a position to really win my lane, the sustain is op.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
billy5000
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States865 Posts
September 17 2011 19:15 GMT
#1122
Can anybody list some champions who cannot be easily countered at top solo?
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. Vonnegut
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 19:22:28
September 17 2011 19:21 GMT
#1123
On September 18 2011 04:11 Craton wrote:
I didn't list cost effectiveness. I gave stats per cost.


But you said that the DBlade's were more flexible. I don't understand that. Over a reasonable period of time, the cost of DBlade+Wriggle's will catch up to and surpass the cost of 3DBlade. You get more lifesteal and armor at the cost of 200hp. Additionally you get the passive which gives you the option of some unusual Dragon and Baron timings. Then, you get the fact that you always have a ward to use to guard your farm.

I don't see how the DBlades are MORE flexible, if all they give you is the option to be more aggressive to take advantage of your larger health pool. To me, it seems as though Wriggles opens up far more avenues of play throughout the game.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 19:28:48
September 17 2011 19:24 GMT
#1124
Would changing Janna's Q to be used like Rumble's R change her kit too much? I just think that it could be interesting for another champ to have a click and drag skill.

On September 18 2011 04:27 MoonBear wrote:
Time to Troll: Kick the Nasus back towards your nearly dead team mate so Nasus can get a free kill.

They live up to their team name.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 19:29:11
September 17 2011 19:27 GMT
#1125
Time to Troll: Kick the Nasus back towards your nearly dead team mate so Nasus can get a free kill.

On September 18 2011 04:24 JBright wrote:
Would changing Janna's Q to be used like Rumble's R change her kit too much? I just think that it could be interesting for another champ to have a click and drag skill.

Janna Q starts from her original location where as for Rumble it can start away from him. Since there's a fixed point it has to start from (Janna's model), a click and drag would be even slower than just point and click.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17242 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 19:29:32
September 17 2011 19:28 GMT
#1126
On September 18 2011 04:21 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 04:11 Craton wrote:
I didn't list cost effectiveness. I gave stats per cost.


But you said that the DBlade's were more flexible. I don't understand that. Over a reasonable period of time, the cost of DBlade+Wriggle's will catch up to and surpass the cost of 3DBlade. You get more lifesteal and armor at the cost of 200hp. Additionally you get the passive which gives you the option of some unusual Dragon and Baron timings. Then, you get the fact that you always have a ward to use to guard your farm.

I don't see how the DBlades are MORE flexible, if all they give you is the option to be more aggressive to take advantage of your larger health pool. To me, it seems as though Wriggles opens up far more avenues of play throughout the game.

Because you have the option to sell a dblade for bigger items and you get their full effectiveness when you buy them; you don't have to wait until you complete the final item to get all the stats. What's not to understand? Wriggles can speed up a dragon or baron, but it does not change the timings of when you can do them.
twitch.tv/cratonz
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
September 17 2011 19:28 GMT
#1127
Hmm i don't really understand how that would work with her Q, it's just a directional spell after all. Smartcast rly good with it btw.

Unless you mean you could change the location where the gale is summoned, then that would be cool. Possibly horribly OP.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
September 17 2011 19:33 GMT
#1128
On September 18 2011 04:27 MoonBear wrote:
Time to Troll: Kick the Nasus back towards your nearly dead team mate so Nasus can get a free kill.

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 04:24 JBright wrote:
Would changing Janna's Q to be used like Rumble's R change her kit too much? I just think that it could be interesting for another champ to have a click and drag skill.

Janna Q starts from her original location where as for Rumble it can start away from him. Since there's a fixed point it has to start from (Janna's model), a click and drag would be even slower than just point and click.

Speaking of that. Why don't Karthus and Anivia walls work the same way as Rumble's ulti? Empath's wall works like that in HoN.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 19:42:40
September 17 2011 19:40 GMT
#1129
On September 18 2011 04:15 billy5000 wrote:
Can anybody list some champions who cannot be easily countered at top solo?


unfortunately, teemo is in the game, so every champ can be countered
fortunately, champs that are hurt LEAST by teemo on the opposite team are
cho'gath
caitlyn
ashe
karthus
janna
kennen

and of course, each of these has their own weakness as well

in the current meta, the "my team will bitch at me if i don't take a bruiser" meta, your best bets are
singed
pantheon
cho'gath
garen
yorick
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
September 17 2011 19:43 GMT
#1130
you wouldn't count nasus leesin irelia to that group gtr?
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
September 17 2011 19:56 GMT
#1131
My warwick rapes Nasus top lane :<
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 20:01:39
September 17 2011 19:57 GMT
#1132
On September 18 2011 04:21 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 04:11 Craton wrote:
I didn't list cost effectiveness. I gave stats per cost.


But you said that the DBlade's were more flexible. I don't understand that. Over a reasonable period of time, the cost of DBlade+Wriggle's will catch up to and surpass the cost of 3DBlade. You get more lifesteal and armor at the cost of 200hp. Additionally you get the passive which gives you the option of some unusual Dragon and Baron timings. Then, you get the fact that you always have a ward to use to guard your farm.

I don't see how the DBlades are MORE flexible, if all they give you is the option to be more aggressive to take advantage of your larger health pool. To me, it seems as though Wriggles opens up far more avenues of play throughout the game.

"Flexible" is probably the wrong word. The main thing is that when you're building Wriggle's, you're pretty committed to building it once you have more than a Cloth Armor for it.

Suppose you have Madred's Razors, and then a Dragon fight happens, and you pick up some kills/assists, and have enough for BF Sword. At that point having Razors is super awkward, because its absolutely not cost-effective for what it gives on its own, and you're probably not going to finish Wriggle's there over getting your BF Sword. Wriggle's is nice, but the components are comparatively underwhelming, and are certainly weaker while you're building it than having Doran's items.

There are completely reasonable tradeoffs to using Wriggle's vs. 2-3 DBlades, and it's hardly black and white. There are benefits of both and its very much based on playstyle, matchups, and how the game is going.
Moderator
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17242 Posts
September 17 2011 19:58 GMT
#1133
On September 18 2011 04:33 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 04:27 MoonBear wrote:
Time to Troll: Kick the Nasus back towards your nearly dead team mate so Nasus can get a free kill.

On September 18 2011 04:24 JBright wrote:
Would changing Janna's Q to be used like Rumble's R change her kit too much? I just think that it could be interesting for another champ to have a click and drag skill.

Janna Q starts from her original location where as for Rumble it can start away from him. Since there's a fixed point it has to start from (Janna's model), a click and drag would be even slower than just point and click.

Speaking of that. Why don't Karthus and Anivia walls work the same way as Rumble's ulti? Empath's wall works like that in HoN.

Abilities that can easily win you a fight should require more thought than point and click. Forcing people to pay attention to their positioning when using abilities is a good thing; rumble's ult can't be countered -- this is bad.
twitch.tv/cratonz
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
September 17 2011 19:59 GMT
#1134
A big part in the whole Wriggle's thing is also the ability to push a lane quickly to apply pressure whenever you can/have to.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
September 17 2011 19:59 GMT
#1135
Warmogs nasus too strong. lol
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
September 17 2011 20:00 GMT
#1136
Lovely music @ ESL stream <3
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 20:05:46
September 17 2011 20:01 GMT
#1137
On September 18 2011 04:56 EatMySpell wrote:
My warwick rapes Nasus top lane :<


Nasus with full mr runes can tank warwick easily.

We're talking like ~80 mr at level 1 though with null magic.

On September 18 2011 04:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
Warmogs nasus too strong. lol


Warmogs is good on Nasus he just doesn't get any cdr from it.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17242 Posts
September 17 2011 20:02 GMT
#1138
On September 18 2011 04:59 spinesheath wrote:
A big part in the whole Wriggle's thing is also the ability to push a lane quickly to apply pressure whenever you can/have to.

Vayne is the only ranged AD who can't already aoe a lane, tbh.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
September 17 2011 20:05 GMT
#1139
On September 18 2011 04:57 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2011 04:21 Takkara wrote:
On September 18 2011 04:11 Craton wrote:
I didn't list cost effectiveness. I gave stats per cost.


But you said that the DBlade's were more flexible. I don't understand that. Over a reasonable period of time, the cost of DBlade+Wriggle's will catch up to and surpass the cost of 3DBlade. You get more lifesteal and armor at the cost of 200hp. Additionally you get the passive which gives you the option of some unusual Dragon and Baron timings. Then, you get the fact that you always have a ward to use to guard your farm.

I don't see how the DBlades are MORE flexible, if all they give you is the option to be more aggressive to take advantage of your larger health pool. To me, it seems as though Wriggles opens up far more avenues of play throughout the game.

"Flexible" is probably the wrong word. The main thing is that when you're building Wriggle's, you're pretty committed to building it once you have more than a Cloth Armor for it.

Suppose you have Madred's Razors, and then a Dragon fight happens, and you pick up some kills/assists, and have enough for BF Sword. At that point having Razors is super awkward, because its absolutely not cost-effective for what it gives on its own, and you're probably not going to finish Wriggle's there over getting your BF Sword. Wriggle's is nice, but the components are comparatively underwhelming, and are certainly weaker while you're building it than having Doran's items.

There are completely reasonable tradeoffs to using Wriggle's vs. 2-3 DBlades, and it's hardly black and white. There are benefits of both and its very much based on playstyle, matchups, and how the game is going.


I can see that. Isn't there also pressure in the other way as well? If you have boots + 3 dorans + BF sword, that's nearly all your space. Especially once you go past your first big item, suddenly you can't hold more of those "builder" items, and you're forced into a tough choice between selling a dorans early vs pooling gold. I totally agree with you though that it's totally valid to do both, I just wanted to understand why Craton was saying it was more flexible.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
September 17 2011 20:09 GMT
#1140
On September 18 2011 05:01 Slayer91 wrote:

Warmogs is good on Nasus he just doesn't get any cdr from it.



ESL game. Don't care about theorycraft atm. Was just fun to watch.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
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