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On January 04 2011 11:09 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 07:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 06:50 Kaneh wrote:
the mana burn sounds good, but in reality, any auto-attack champ will never actually burn enough mana to matter before the other thing dies, leaving you with just the +42 dmg, but only on some champs. In most cases, there are better damage items.
what? are you saying that trist is gonna kill a rammus in W-mode before she drains a significant amount of mana? of course not. what about an amumu that's running around waiting for the fight to start that she can snipe 4 hits on. do you think he's going to feel that -160 mana when he's trying to chase someone down after the fight? yeah. don't be dumb so you're gonna focus down that rammus with W on right? let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb he's def gonna feel that mana when he chases you after you lose that fight. It comes back to wtf is the point. It's an extremely back loaded effect - until they run out of mana, it's effect is exactly nil. Back loaded stuff just isn't viable. Stuff that makes you win the fight now wins. Initiating first wins. Getting that first person down before they can do anything wins. doing damage now and not later wins. EDIT:: against anivia and kass - again, if you're a realy auto-attack champ, they will die long before the mana burn has any real effect. unless they're some kinda troll tank.
yes, you're going to focus the rammus because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to burn his mana so he can't kill you.
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Clarity ultimate counter to wit's end
GG no re
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Clarity takes up a summoner skill. Also, they would have to preemptively get clarity in a hope that you would get wit's end. Hex drinker is an exaggeration but it really does make karthas's ultimate from across the map less effective if he wants to finish you off.
@Kaneh
Madred's bloodrazor.
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On January 04 2011 16:31 dignity wrote:
Clarity takes up a summoner skill. Also, they would have to preemptively get clarity in a hope that you would get wit's end.
whoosh whoosh whoosh
User was warned for this post
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if you wanna use onorthodox items go play kayle.
She can make use of nashor's tooth, hextech gunblade and any other ap/ad/as item with retardedly imba stats to back it up. Shame that people won't grand her mid, which she needs so badly.
that and the fact its to easy to go mr & mdef on a tank so both her types of damage will be reduced forcing you to ap/ar and maybe a hextech gunblade on the side. Also, her splash is equal to double the tiamat splash range.
(lategame you have a 2 sec gap (when using nashor) when you arn't ranged, which is quite nice)
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I like Hexdrinker on Eve. I'm only engaging for a short duration and usually eating a lot of magic burst, so Hexdrinker's shield is awesome. Eve also scales best with AD once she has her ult. Apart from Eve though I barely ever build it.
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On January 04 2011 11:17 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 11:09 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2011 07:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 06:50 Kaneh wrote:
the mana burn sounds good, but in reality, any auto-attack champ will never actually burn enough mana to matter before the other thing dies, leaving you with just the +42 dmg, but only on some champs. In most cases, there are better damage items.
what? are you saying that trist is gonna kill a rammus in W-mode before she drains a significant amount of mana? of course not. what about an amumu that's running around waiting for the fight to start that she can snipe 4 hits on. do you think he's going to feel that -160 mana when he's trying to chase someone down after the fight? yeah. don't be dumb so you're gonna focus down that rammus with W on right? let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb he's def gonna feel that mana when he chases you after you lose that fight. It comes back to wtf is the point. It's an extremely back loaded effect - until they run out of mana, it's effect is exactly nil. Back loaded stuff just isn't viable. Stuff that makes you win the fight now wins. Initiating first wins. Getting that first person down before they can do anything wins. doing damage now and not later wins. EDIT:: against anivia and kass - again, if you're a realy auto-attack champ, they will die long before the mana burn has any real effect. unless they're some kinda troll tank. yes, you're going to focus the rammus because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to burn his mana so he can't kill you.
sweet let me know how that works out. haha I really can't beleive you are actually arguing that focusing rammus/tanks to burn thier mana in a fight is actually viable. hahahaha you gotta be trolling. FOCUS THAT RAMMUS WITH W ON TROLOLOLOLOL. maybe after he powerballs in, uses his ult, taunts and puts on w, he'll run out of mana in another 10 hits! only gonna need to focus him and not kill him for 4 more secs! it's like self-cc! why wouldn't I do that!
@ dignity
random words, no explanation
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Guitar, I like you but your "focus rammus using wits end" plan is solidly countered by buying a sapphire crystal in the odd chance that it works. Which it won't.
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Wit's end is fun and all but I find that people usually die before you can burn a significant amount of their mana because I was screwing around in normals and trying to burn people's mana to 0 and then screw around with them but they just died before I could get to that point.
It's too bad because fighting karthus and then burning all of his mana so he has to auto attack you is funny.
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On January 05 2011 09:12 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 11:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 11:09 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2011 07:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 06:50 Kaneh wrote:
the mana burn sounds good, but in reality, any auto-attack champ will never actually burn enough mana to matter before the other thing dies, leaving you with just the +42 dmg, but only on some champs. In most cases, there are better damage items.
what? are you saying that trist is gonna kill a rammus in W-mode before she drains a significant amount of mana? of course not. what about an amumu that's running around waiting for the fight to start that she can snipe 4 hits on. do you think he's going to feel that -160 mana when he's trying to chase someone down after the fight? yeah. don't be dumb so you're gonna focus down that rammus with W on right? let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb he's def gonna feel that mana when he chases you after you lose that fight. It comes back to wtf is the point. It's an extremely back loaded effect - until they run out of mana, it's effect is exactly nil. Back loaded stuff just isn't viable. Stuff that makes you win the fight now wins. Initiating first wins. Getting that first person down before they can do anything wins. doing damage now and not later wins. EDIT:: against anivia and kass - again, if you're a realy auto-attack champ, they will die long before the mana burn has any real effect. unless they're some kinda troll tank. yes, you're going to focus the rammus because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to burn his mana so he can't kill you. sweet let me know how that works out. haha I really can't beleive you are actually arguing that focusing rammus/tanks to burn thier mana in a fight is actually viable. hahahaha you gotta be trolling. FOCUS THAT RAMMUS WITH W ON TROLOLOLOLOL. maybe after he powerballs in, uses his ult, taunts and puts on w, he'll run out of mana in another 10 hits! only gonna need to focus him and not kill him for 4 more secs! it's like self-cc! why wouldn't I do that! @ dignity random words, no explanation
ahahahaha... self-taunt onto rammus, something is just funny about that.
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i just got wits end first on xin and proceeded to focus their alistar in the pre-fight skirmishes so that when the fight came around he was unable to ult or punch our carry away
best strat
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I once had this game on TT where I was Cho, one of my allies disced, and I still owned the enemy team. Did solid damage while being unkillable. We still couldn't stop them from pushing our towers down though. I was bravely defending at the nexus tower, having a 2 minute standoff against Shen. I wanted to finish him off with Feast.
WTF WHERE IS MY MANA?
Turns out their whole team went for Wit's End.
Anyways, as a ranged carry I often get some free shots on a couple of tanky enemies. Often I just can't target anything else because I would have to run past that tank to reach someone else. Usually tanks don't die from these attacks, but the mana drain sure might hurt them a bit.
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Tank w/o mana can be ignored, unless hes got energy or no mana ._.
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On January 05 2011 09:12 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 11:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 11:09 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2011 07:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 06:50 Kaneh wrote:
the mana burn sounds good, but in reality, any auto-attack champ will never actually burn enough mana to matter before the other thing dies, leaving you with just the +42 dmg, but only on some champs. In most cases, there are better damage items.
what? are you saying that trist is gonna kill a rammus in W-mode before she drains a significant amount of mana? of course not. what about an amumu that's running around waiting for the fight to start that she can snipe 4 hits on. do you think he's going to feel that -160 mana when he's trying to chase someone down after the fight? yeah. don't be dumb so you're gonna focus down that rammus with W on right? let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb he's def gonna feel that mana when he chases you after you lose that fight. It comes back to wtf is the point. It's an extremely back loaded effect - until they run out of mana, it's effect is exactly nil. Back loaded stuff just isn't viable. Stuff that makes you win the fight now wins. Initiating first wins. Getting that first person down before they can do anything wins. doing damage now and not later wins. EDIT:: against anivia and kass - again, if you're a realy auto-attack champ, they will die long before the mana burn has any real effect. unless they're some kinda troll tank. yes, you're going to focus the rammus because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to burn his mana so he can't kill you. sweet let me know how that works out. haha I really can't beleive you are actually arguing that focusing rammus/tanks to burn thier mana in a fight is actually viable. hahahaha you gotta be trolling. FOCUS THAT RAMMUS WITH W ON TROLOLOLOLOL. maybe after he powerballs in, uses his ult, taunts and puts on w, he'll run out of mana in another 10 hits! only gonna need to focus him and not kill him for 4 more secs! it's like self-cc! why wouldn't I do that! @ dignity random words, no explanation
Madreds bloodrazor is an item that makes attacking a tank good. The item is good because it lets you kill tanks. Your argument was that "let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb" but that is exactly what madreds is used for.
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On January 05 2011 09:12 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 11:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 11:09 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2011 07:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 06:50 Kaneh wrote:
the mana burn sounds good, but in reality, any auto-attack champ will never actually burn enough mana to matter before the other thing dies, leaving you with just the +42 dmg, but only on some champs. In most cases, there are better damage items.
what? are you saying that trist is gonna kill a rammus in W-mode before she drains a significant amount of mana? of course not. what about an amumu that's running around waiting for the fight to start that she can snipe 4 hits on. do you think he's going to feel that -160 mana when he's trying to chase someone down after the fight? yeah. don't be dumb so you're gonna focus down that rammus with W on right? let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb he's def gonna feel that mana when he chases you after you lose that fight. It comes back to wtf is the point. It's an extremely back loaded effect - until they run out of mana, it's effect is exactly nil. Back loaded stuff just isn't viable. Stuff that makes you win the fight now wins. Initiating first wins. Getting that first person down before they can do anything wins. doing damage now and not later wins. EDIT:: against anivia and kass - again, if you're a realy auto-attack champ, they will die long before the mana burn has any real effect. unless they're some kinda troll tank. yes, you're going to focus the rammus because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to burn his mana so he can't kill you. sweet let me know how that works out. haha I really can't beleive you are actually arguing that focusing rammus/tanks to burn thier mana in a fight is actually viable. hahahaha you gotta be trolling. FOCUS THAT RAMMUS WITH W ON TROLOLOLOLOL. maybe after he powerballs in, uses his ult, taunts and puts on w, he'll run out of mana in another 10 hits! only gonna need to focus him and not kill him for 4 more secs! it's like self-cc! why wouldn't I do that! @ dignity random words, no explanation
guitar worded it wrong, focus is not the right word, because focus implies that you are actively trying to specifically hit the tank, which is not the case. in teamfights where both teams have decent positioning, many times the only thing you can hit is the tank (i am making the assumption that only the ranged carry is grabbing wits), so its silly to not attack the tank 'on principle' when hes the only one thats within reasonable reach, wits simply gives you a sweet bonus in those situations by burning his mana and making him significantly less useful.
if you are always in a position to never attack tanks and only attack squishies, then you my friend, are a god of LoL or in a really shitty elo, because the better tank players know how to get up in your face and be a total asshole. I remember a discussion at some point why lw was such a great item on ad carries (pre change) since the passive doesnt significantly boost your damage against targets with low armor, but its great against tanks, and a lot of playing ranged carries is kiting tanks. I think wits may be a different approach at the same thing.
edit: how did that url get in there o.O
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madreds + malady + wits end = pretty fun times. throw sotd in for more awesome
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No madreds is good vs any character that stacks HP and even against squishy characters. With only 2k hp this means +80 damage with it's passive (not including damage mitigation).
Wits end on the other hand fills a very small niche that isn't entirely viable because the things it is designed to counter (low mana pool tanks or casters) generally should not be targeted or wouldn't feel it because of high mana pools. Additionally it is an AS speed item so by nature is a lategame item, while lategame is when mana management is not as big of a deal. It's not a bad item imo but it's not good enough to be a standard item but more of a situational item.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2011 09:44 dignity wrote:
Madreds bloodrazor is an item that makes attacking a tank good. The item is good because it lets you kill tanks. Your argument was that "let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb" but that is exactly what madreds is used for.
Why do people always say Madreds is an anti-tank item? Sure they have higher HP, but they also have higher MR. If they're playing well, the aforementioned stats should be balanced appropriately. It's only really rewards attacking tanks in the case that:
1) The opposing tanks are disproportionately invested into HP
2) Your team has no damage diversity and the opponents would otherwise get away with stacking HP/Armor and ignoring MR
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On January 06 2011 09:44 dignity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 09:12 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2011 11:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 11:09 Kaneh wrote:On January 04 2011 07:17 gtrsrs wrote:On January 04 2011 06:50 Kaneh wrote:
the mana burn sounds good, but in reality, any auto-attack champ will never actually burn enough mana to matter before the other thing dies, leaving you with just the +42 dmg, but only on some champs. In most cases, there are better damage items.
what? are you saying that trist is gonna kill a rammus in W-mode before she drains a significant amount of mana? of course not. what about an amumu that's running around waiting for the fight to start that she can snipe 4 hits on. do you think he's going to feel that -160 mana when he's trying to chase someone down after the fight? yeah. don't be dumb so you're gonna focus down that rammus with W on right? let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb he's def gonna feel that mana when he chases you after you lose that fight. It comes back to wtf is the point. It's an extremely back loaded effect - until they run out of mana, it's effect is exactly nil. Back loaded stuff just isn't viable. Stuff that makes you win the fight now wins. Initiating first wins. Getting that first person down before they can do anything wins. doing damage now and not later wins. EDIT:: against anivia and kass - again, if you're a realy auto-attack champ, they will die long before the mana burn has any real effect. unless they're some kinda troll tank. yes, you're going to focus the rammus because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to burn his mana so he can't kill you. sweet let me know how that works out. haha I really can't beleive you are actually arguing that focusing rammus/tanks to burn thier mana in a fight is actually viable. hahahaha you gotta be trolling. FOCUS THAT RAMMUS WITH W ON TROLOLOLOLOL. maybe after he powerballs in, uses his ult, taunts and puts on w, he'll run out of mana in another 10 hits! only gonna need to focus him and not kill him for 4 more secs! it's like self-cc! why wouldn't I do that! @ dignity random words, no explanation Madreds bloodrazor is an item that makes attacking a tank good. The item is good because it lets you kill tanks. Your argument was that "let's focus tanks to make an item good! -_- don't be dumb" but that is exactly what madreds is used for.
okay, so then why build wit's instead of something that would kill them faster? why burn mana if you're trying to kill them? srsly.
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I use Wits end on WW. My build for WW is getting Madreds Bloodrazor and then survivability like GA, Banshees Veil, Frozen Mallet Merc Treads.
However Wits End can be great because first off it procs 42 damage a hit for WWs ult. and as WW has a great AS skilll it makes it proc more. Plus when WW Ults he get a lot of aggro. And the MR helps with reducing the damage you take with Mages.
So if the whole team has mana or even 4 out of five i try to get a Wits end. Thats just my two cents but im low elo so take it with a grain of salt. But what do you guys thing about it.
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EPT
