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On November 10 2010 03:34 Mogwai wrote:
oh, well you're missing out on a lot of the pre-6 minute push and pull of jungle routes then. we once lost a game to Jatt's Udyr taking dragon with red pot opening by doing wolves -> golem -> dragon opening as Purple jungler. you really gotta be diligent watching the creep score of opposing junglers checking dragon at the right times even without wards.
also, part of the cookie-cutter longsword first WW route is rushing to dragon after first back with razors and forcing either the opposing team to concede dragon or teamfight you at an awkward timing for their jungler. early dragon awareness is crucial to good jungle play.
I'm 100% with you as far as dragon awareness being crucial. It's just that, again, in my experience, engaging dragon early is just asking for a teamfight you're likely to lose:
- The enemy team should have the area warded, so they can see you and engage favourably;
- The enemy team has easier escape routes, while you're stuck at the entrance to Dragon which leads nowhere.
Whenever I see an enemy jungler try to solo Dragon at level 4-5, they invariably die, or at best ghost away / flash across to their jungle (if on blue team) then bluepill back to lick their wounds, wasting time and summoner spell CDs.
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I find it hard to say that one jungler is the "best"
There are a lot of very strong junglers but it really depends more on team comp than the skill of the jungler themselves.
Personally I find most of the "effective" junglers to be enough for most people to get by.
I personally favor Nunu when jungling, he's fairly safe and fairly easy to play.
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the 2 most dominating individual junglers in the game (Jatt and lilballz) both prefer Udyr to all others, so he is the best jungler at the top level of play.
at lower levels, WW wins games though. Amumu too, I think it's a toss up between those 2, but I think WW more consistently wins his team games through buff control and dragon (actual jungling) and less through just pressing R (derp, winteamfight button... how convenient!).
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United States37500 Posts
Udyr is consistent as fuck. He builds tank, has speed, can stun every 5 seconds, bursts. Just too good. He's probably the tankiest out of the three too. So he easily fulfill a tank role for your team.
Pro Udyrs don't fear Galio btw. Just stay in Bear stance alllll day.
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On November 10 2010 03:34 Mogwai wrote:
oh, well you're missing out on a lot of the pre-6 minute push and pull of jungle routes then. we once lost a game to Jatt's Udyr taking dragon with red pot opening by doing wolves -> golem -> dragon opening as Purple jungler. you really gotta be diligent watching the creep score of opposing junglers checking dragon at the right times even without wards.
Was this solo dragon or with the help of his team? I just tried to do wolves->golem->dragon but died every time. Wraiths->wolves->golem (or reverse order from blue side) into dragon is easily doable though but you start dragon like 20-30 seconds after it spawns. Then again maybe I just need the Jatt Runepage.
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Does Bear Stance break Galio ult? I swear it didn't, but I could just be bad and have been stunning him pre-ult lol.
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I think it was sans help with 3 hp pots + 1 mana pot if I had to guess. We actually couldn't see, we just got really confused with his 7 CS and then we checked dragon and saw a red pot udyr fleeing a dragon corpse O_O.
His rune page is all Attack Speed except for 6 flat mana glyphs for whatever that's worth.
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On November 10 2010 07:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Does Bear Stance break Galio ult? I swear it didn't, but I could just be bad and have been stunning him pre-ult lol.
It's a bug that it doesn't. If you get taunted (from any source) it just does a regular auto-attack instead of proccing Bear. I think this is a recent thing. If you have a cleanse or QSS you can use it to get your stun back.
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United States37500 Posts
It's a stun, derp.
And yes, obviously don't attack Galio manually. Let him "taunt" you then you break.
Have someone volley or some poke if he has Banshee obviously.
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On November 10 2010 04:07 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 03:34 Mogwai wrote:
oh, well you're missing out on a lot of the pre-6 minute push and pull of jungle routes then. we once lost a game to Jatt's Udyr taking dragon with red pot opening by doing wolves -> golem -> dragon opening as Purple jungler. you really gotta be diligent watching the creep score of opposing junglers checking dragon at the right times even without wards.
also, part of the cookie-cutter longsword first WW route is rushing to dragon after first back with razors and forcing either the opposing team to concede dragon or teamfight you at an awkward timing for their jungler. early dragon awareness is crucial to good jungle play. I'm 100% with you as far as dragon awareness being crucial. It's just that, again, in my experience, engaging dragon early is just asking for a teamfight you're likely to lose: - The enemy team should have the area warded, so they can see you and engage favourably; - The enemy team has easier escape routes, while you're stuck at the entrance to Dragon which leads nowhere. Whenever I see an enemy jungler try to solo Dragon at level 4-5, they invariably die, or at best ghost away / flash across to their jungle (if on blue team) then bluepill back to lick their wounds, wasting time and summoner spell CDs.
I have to disagree with this. Let's assume the enemy has some form of maphacks (wards) and knows when you are attempting to solo dragon at level 4-5. If you begin dragon and the enemy team responds to you, your mid and bottom lanes should be coming to help. You are at an advantage until their jungler appears at which point your own wards should indicate this and give you a second or two to react to his entrance. Worst case scenario a fight breaks out and your top can teleport in if needed (top should have teleport if your plan is to attempt an early dragon in the first place) to help stack the fight in your favor.
Also, your bottom lane should be pushing hard once you b to heal before dragon and get your razors so that a) you can see both their bottom players at all times and b) they are in a better position to help the dragon fight then their opponent.
Note: the point here is a solo dragon attempt should turn into a team event as soon as the other team tries to stop the solo jungler
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right, that's all more or less correct, the point being that if the opposing team has failed to ward or you brought a pink ward like any self respecting werewolf and thus can maintain control of vision of dragon, you need to be able to follow through and take early dragon. But I was also talking about a case where it was a dragon RIGHT as Dragon spawned, at a timing when most teams don't have Dragon warded.
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On November 10 2010 07:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
It's a stun, derp.
And yes, obviously don't attack Galio manually. Let him "taunt" you then you break.
Have someone volley or some poke if he has Banshee obviously.
Have you tried in the past few patches? I mean, it obviously SHOULD work but I've read on the official boards that it doesn't at the moment (just like how QSS makes Vlad's ult deal the ending damage at the moment you sash, rather than just cleansing the debuff entirely).
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I'm like 90% sure that galio flashed in when i had bear stance active on multiple occasions and it didn't break it so I'm pretty sure it doesn't break his ult.
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i finally reached lv 30 two days ago..been playing solo queue 3v3 as ashe..
my W/L ratio is exactly at 50%(im actually proud)...played just under 400 games 
well I get a lot of shit for going ashe on 3v3..people just call me newb for picking ashe and tell me ashe is fucking horrible on TT...so I decided to try a new champ WW !!!!
well.. first word i hear when i join a game as WW is "jungle WW fucking sux on TT"....wtf -_-;
so I decided to try 5v5 and i guess people are ok with me playing jungle WW there...I've read few thread regarding jungling and built my runes and masteries following mobafire recommendations.
So...this is what I do...suggestions would be great
1)I start with cloth armor + 5 hp pots - I end up selling 2-3 pots back later but I take them just in case.
2)I start off at blue golem, I start attack little guys first with 'W' and 1 health pot. Then finish off big guy the last with smite. Some times i can kill him using only one health pot and some times it takes me two...
3)I kill red lizard right after 4 witches then finish off 2 golems
4)head to enemy blue golem and kill him then 3 wolves
5)dragon
I got a question here...is this wise to go back to base as soon as I get 700g to get razor or is it wiser to farm as much as possible...even until i die? when is the best time to go back to shop?
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You should never die in the jungle as warwick.
You should kill the ancient golems before the little guys. With proper masteries/runes the little guys won't do much damage at all to you.
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Some of the information in this post is good, but mostly I think it doesn't work as a good guide to learning what you need to know to jungling. I liked the information in this jungling guide a little better and have been using it to play warwick a lot lately. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166590
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On November 10 2010 20:51 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I'm like 90% sure that galio flashed in when i had bear stance active on multiple occasions and it didn't break it so I'm pretty sure it doesn't break his ult.
yea, it was changed in a recent patch, unsure of whether it was intended or not.
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On November 11 2010 07:24 The6357 wrote:i finally reached lv 30 two days ago..been playing solo queue 3v3 as ashe.. my W/L ratio is exactly at 50%(im actually proud)...played just under 400 games well I get a lot of shit for going ashe on 3v3..people just call me newb for picking ashe and tell me ashe is fucking horrible on TT...so I decided to try a new champ WW !!!! well.. first word i hear when i join a game as WW is "jungle WW fucking sux on TT"....wtf -_-; so I decided to try 5v5 and i guess people are ok with me playing jungle WW there...I've read few thread regarding jungling and built my runes and masteries following mobafire recommendations. So...this is what I do...suggestions would be great 1)I start with cloth armor + 5 hp pots - I end up selling 2-3 pots back later but I take them just in case. 2)I start off at blue golem, I start attack little guys first with 'W' and 1 health pot. Then finish off big guy the last with smite. Some times i can kill him using only one health pot and some times it takes me two... 3)I kill red lizard right after 4 witches then finish off 2 golems 4)head to enemy blue golem and kill him then 3 wolves 5)dragon I got a question here...is this wise to go back to base as soon as I get 700g to get razor or is it wiser to farm as much as possible...even until i die? when is the best time to go back to shop?
This post really belongs more in the individual champion thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166127) than it does in the jungling thread.
If you are going to open golem, go Q and attack golem first. You should still be able to kill golem at lvl 1 with W but your health goes way too low. That and imo Q first on golem allows you to decrease the risk of smite steals.
In the case of WW opening cloth pot (ward), I personally like to go back after the first round through jungle to pick up another ward and boots, as imo if I have cloth + pot my goal is to disrupt enemy jungling rather than to gank/force a fast dragon.
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EPT
