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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
anyway, I've played HotS actually for a few hours earlier this year, but the interest died down quickly, especially because I'm a die hard dota fan, and I kept thinking to myself I could just be playing dota 2 instead of this. but seeing as I'm a blizzard fanboy too, I'm thinking of giving it more time again. how should I approach this game? | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
Whether you should stick with the game or not depends on what you're looking for. Heroes has the tight controls that a lot of League players look for (no turn rate, spammable skillshots) while also having strong utility spells (e.g. zeratul ult = slightly diff void ult = much better version of bard ult) that are generally more interesting than abilities in League. And of course, short match duration is always a plus if you don't like being tied down for potentially an hour and a half. Heroes does suffer from a lack of ways to show individual skill once you start playing decent players (due to no last-hitting / shared levels / no items). The talent tree system is pretty cool but, in my experience, really only has 2 out of the 4 or 5 options that are ever worth selecting. So it's definitely also lacking some depth compared to Dota in the department of reactive and niche talent/item builds. From a solo-queue standpoint, I think the ranking system is trash and games seem to be more determined by which team has that one un-carriable player who never groups. So my recommendation is: if you want to be competitive, you want a full 5 man team because coordination trumps everything else in this game. Find some players on TL to play with you! Personally, I enjoyed the game specifically because I could play it with friends who had no moba/arts experience whatsoever without them feeling like feeders (as they would in League/Dota). Controls and mechanics are all really intuitive so good job Blizzard. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
Ofc, this is more difficult to do when not everyone is on the same page, but a good "carry" in Heroes is someone who can call the correct shots and convince everyone to do the right things at the right times. Anyhow, I highly suggest playing with 2-4 friends, as that makes the coordination and fun factor of the game go way up. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
It has less individual skill and as a result is more about teamplay. I like this but it can also make solo quee a more frustating experience. The talent system doesn't have much real choices either but I find the item system in other MOBA's even more dull, both basically come down to just determining at the beginning of the match what build you go for mostly with the very occasional minor change depending on how the game is progressing. The system of other moba's is slightly more tricky because of gold management but has the boring trips to base and gold farming because of it too. I like how clean it is in heroes, there is just 1 level for both teams, you immediately see if you are at an advantage or not based on that. Talent diversity could have been much better but Blizzard is sadly always a very slow company in balancing. If they would patch more frequently they could have easily arrived at interesting talent choices already but they just don't somehow. The big plus for me in heroes is the gametime. There is just interesting action right of the bat whereas the farming stage of other MOBA's is incredibly dull to me. Yes there is individual skill in last hitting etc. but it feels so contrived. Plus longer matches are even more annoying if the skill gap is there or there is massive toxicity on your team, in heroes the agony is over quicker at least. And heck the catchup mechanisms make it easier to come back. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 08 2015 20:25 Markwerf wrote: Agreed with the posters above. Someone has clearly stolen your identity. The Markwerf I know would never agree in a forum post! | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On December 08 2015 21:15 SC2John wrote: Someone has clearly stolen your identity. The Markwerf I know would never agree in a forum post! Haha no idea where you get that from. You disagree with me on some things, i disagree with you on some things. Doesn't mean that's always the case! | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
It may be simpler than Dota and League of Legends, but again if the game is "too easy" for the people already playing these, they'll climb to an insane MMR and still face very competitive players. Easy to learn hard to master. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44019 Posts
On December 08 2015 22:34 Leolio wrote: Think Dota meets Smash Bros, but in a good way. Everything is accessible, full of polish, the game is fast paced and fun, you can feel the Blizzard touch. It may be simpler than Dota and League of Legends, but again if the game is "too easy" for the people already playing these, they'll climb to an insane MMR and still face very competitive players. Easy to learn hard to master. Is there a bad way?  I agree with the above explanations though. It's far more team-oriented and less about individual skill, which is great if you want to play a true team game but much harder if you play with random people that don't coordinate with you. Also... Blizzard characters <3 <3 <3 | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
It's admitedly kind of long, but it explains very well the differences between the games and most importantly how they change the gameplay, and therefore how to aproach it. | ||
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lestye
United States4148 Posts
On December 08 2015 16:51 synapse wrote: Personally, I enjoyed the game specifically because I could play it with friends who had no moba/arts experience whatsoever without them feeling like feeders (as they would in League/Dota). Controls and mechanics are all really intuitive so good job Blizzard. That's my experience as well. I would rather play Heroes with any like non-gamer or casual friends in Dota. I love Dota, but it's really awful if you're playing with inexperienced friends who don't understand the game sense of damage/stun/slow, if they dont understand creep equilbrium, or the pacing of the game. It's a lot less stressful in HOTS. The lack of stress goes both ways, I never get mad at feeding in HOTS, or frustrated at noob plays, but I don't think I'll ever get the thrill of those 70 minute games where everyone has to have perfect positioning of the game just ends, those highs in Dota are just beautiful . | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
What I do agree on is that heroes are much easier to control and thus your friends can get into the game a lot quicker, also the game length is very important : obviously a ruined 50minutes game feels terrible compared to a ruined 15minutes game. The thrill is there in hots too with nail-bitters game where both cores are very close to dying, you never really know what is going to happen as a single teamfight can turn the game around. It's just that these games last 30minutes max instead of 70. Anyway my take on hots is that if you like RTS games more than moba games you will probably like hots a lot. The decision making/strategy aspect is sooo deep even top players can't agree on how the game should be played on most maps. You would think that at a certain level everyone is on the same page but I can tell you that is not the case at all. Also there's still so much to discover in this game, it's exciting ! | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Is it higher skill caps on dota heroes in general or is it more about the last hitting/lane phase? | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On December 09 2015 05:30 Foxxan wrote: When ppl talk about player skill in hots and dota, what does it mean really? Is it higher skill caps on dota heroes in general or is it more about the last hitting/lane phase? As a non-DOTA/LOL player, I always assume they mean raw mechanical micro. The way I differentiate good and bad heroes players is their snap play decisions, not whether they out-micro'd someone with sick jukes. | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On December 09 2015 05:30 Foxxan wrote: When ppl talk about player skill in hots and dota, what does it mean really? Is it higher skill caps on dota heroes in general or is it more about the last hitting/lane phase? People will cite lots of things. Positioning can be tougher in dota as they dont give every hero a mobility spell, and there are noticible turn rates. Poor positioning is also more easily punished. There are cast points that need to be managed (some spells take much longer to cast than others), and spells in general have much longer cooldowns, so using them at the perfect moment is very important. In general, spells and items in Dota are all designed to have a more noticable effect. Close to none of the major items are plain stat-sticks, if they are a stat stick they majorly buff that stat (+330 damage on an item, when heroes generally ahve a base damage of around 50-100 over a game), otherwise they are more for the valueable active effects. When both teams have all these massively powerful/impactful abilities at their disposal, skill in how they are used can really shine. Think about Storm Spirit in dota. In just his abilities, he can travel extremely fast in short bursts (while invulnerable), but this uses his mana extremely quickly. He has up to a 2.5s stun, and with good spell timings, the ability to constantly slow a target and evade attacks. A standard Storm Spirit item build will include an Orchid, which silences the target for 5 seconds and amplifies damage by 30%, a Scythe of Vyse which is just a 3.5s hex, and a BKB which grants him from 5s to 10s of magic immunity. The cooldowns of these abilities vary from 0 (His ult) to 30s on the hex, to up to 80s on the BKB. An extremely good player can manage all of these skills in such a way that he can nearly on his own dominate an entire team of lesser skilled players. For example, he could use his ult (the extremely fast travel that uses mana very quickly) to suddenly appear in a group of the enemies, Hex one, stun another, and use the silence+damage amp to kill another. During this, if someone tries to help he could avoid incoming projectiles with his ult again (makes him temporarily invulnerable). After getting the kill, with his major skills on cooldown, he could then use his ult to escape, assuming he managed his mana correctly. A single stun or silence landing from the opposing team would likely end this play immediately, and he would die. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
One of the best pieces advice for players trying out Heroes: If your team insists on doing something that is a bad idea, you need to not only help them, but encourage the entire team to assist as well. Teamwork > all. You need to retrain your brain. Also with the map objectives appearing every ~2-3 mins, there are constantly more and more opportunities to show your skill AS A TEAM in group fights. One place I feel Heroes shines is Hero design. Most dota/moba style games I do not enjoy most of the units and find my favorites. Heroes is the opposite, it is hard for me to find a character I do NOT enjoy! There are so many fun, unique play style heroes to choose from. On December 09 2015 05:30 Foxxan wrote: When ppl talk about player skill in hots and dota, what does it mean really? Is it higher skill caps on dota heroes in general or is it more about the last hitting/lane phase? That is a very interesting question, because most ppl misuse the word "skill" imo. Different games have entirely different types of skill. For example, in CS aiming is one of the top skill to have. In Tribes or UT, for most weapons aiming isn't really important at all, it's more about prediction. Does one take more skill? Not necessarily, just different types of skill. Dota "skill" has some things that Heroes does not have, at the same time Heroes has "skill" in places that Dota doesn't have. Many people say dota has more "individual skill" and I can see where they are coming from to a point, because in Dota a single player can carry your team harder than any other moba style game, you can single handedly win the game for your team. In Heroes, you HAVE to work as a team. You have a lot more opportunities to coordinate as a team, a lot more consistent team fighting without as heavy individual snowballing. Objectives appearing all over the place. Different tactics and strategies based upon different maps/objectives. A more dynamically changing battle field with the different "jungle" system. A lot more "forced" group fights. I will refrain from joining most arguments about which game takes more skill, because outside of controls, it's a completely different skill set. Not really comparable. The skill is displayed in completely different places. I could understand if people like the fact that they are single handedly more powerful, or if they really enjoy the laning phase of the game. Those are legitimate reasons to enjoy dota more - it's a style of game that fits what you personally enjoy more. But to say it takes "more" skill is just silly. "More skill" is a pointless empty statement unless you specific WHAT TYPE of skill. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On December 09 2015 06:00 karazax wrote: With the recruit a friend promo going on, now's as good a time as any to find out. Unless you leveled your old account significantly, probably best to make a new one and take advantage of the free heroes and xp bonuses. oh! how does this work? are you saying I should recruit myself and make a new account? and thanks for the above posts guys, I'm gonna go read them now. they all look informative and helpful lol | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
I can send you an invite here if you want one. | ||
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jubil
United States2602 Posts
Mostly wanna agree with what's already been said (less emphasis on mechanical skill and more on decision-making/teamfights); for me personally the variety in maps and map objectives and the short game durations keep the game fresh even though talent builds in HotS are less diverse than item/talent builds in Dota2 (though there certainly are at least a few decisions for most HotS heroes). Also, as I play a lot of support, I do relish having what feels like a more visceral impact for my team because the focus for supports is healing rather than warding, (most have stuns or other utility too) and I also really appreciate that I feel like I can have a good impact on the game even when it gets late - my level and abilities always keep up, so you don't get that "welp I did everything I could, pulled, stacked, denied, rotated, but enemy carry farmed up and can oneshot me, better hide in base" feeling (maybe I was just bad in Dota2...) The thing that really killed Dota for me (maybe this doesn't apply to you) was having to relearn everything after a break when a new major patch came out. The HotS metagame is more forgiving with that stuff, imo. One thing I really didn't like about HotS, coming from Dota2, was the sheer price of the heroes - in gold it's a bit steep I feel (takes basically forever to get all the good metagame heroes with gold), and in dollars it's simply unconscionable to charge so much for a literal fraction of a game. In the end I just found a few I liked and spent my starter gold there, and gradually grew my collection with gold as I got bored. | ||
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