|
On October 28 2015 12:51 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 10:28 MotherFox wrote:
matchmaking in heroleague has been absolutely amazing this week, or is it just me? Once I got past the rank 30 pool of potatoes every match has been action packed and nail biting to the end. I shouldn't have said anything. Tonight I got soooo many complainers. It's like even when we're winning, we're losing. Multiple teams that think abathur is bad specifically on cursed hollow, that double warrior comps are bad, etc, etc.
My limited experience so far is that at first people are very anal about the meta and tier lists, but after a while people just play what they want to play and trust their team to not pick a hero that flat out sucks either b/c they're forcing a 'tier-1' hero on someone, they just suck at that hero, or their just making a trash pick. I've heard as you get closer to r1 the analness comes back, but around r20 it's still pretty chill.
Last night's hero league was a really good example of that. We get first pick, Tyrael, our fifth preselects Monk, our fourth preselects Zeebo. When it comes back to us I lock in Valla and say 'Team Diablo' and our third dutifully locks Sonya. I stupidly died twice during laning phases and no one says anything. I'm split pushing too hard and go oom (newbie, newbie mistake) while our DK expires and get collapsed on for death 3 and no one calls me out on it either (in fact the nearest guy apologizes for not getting me out of there). Really chill team, we end up rolling the other side past lvl-10, it turns out our team synergized really well and was able to dive anything.
But I don't think their other team was nearly as fun as ours. Their first pick was a mediocre Zag who I felt only picked it b/c 'Zag is good on Dragon Shire'. They also had a Gazlowe who I swear decided halfway through the game 'Screw this I'm afk-pushing bot' because that's what he did when they fell behind a talent tier...
On October 28 2015 14:48 xDaunt wrote:
Okay, screw Suppression Pulse on Artanis. Take Purifier Beam every game with Artanis and go for the Level 20 upgrade. Just ask SC2John, Valiver, and MotherFox.
They witnessed.
From the skill preview I didn't see how Supression Pulse wouldn't be the 99% pick, but in game.. it's really not that scary. Sure it's hard to avoid, but the damage is pitiful and I hardly care if I'm blinded for a few seconds while I reposition away from Artanis (he's gotten a lot less scary as people get used to avoiding the return swipe on blade dash... also he's not unstoppable during it which surprised me).
Purifier Beam on the other hand... people are bad at moving out of it (I played WoW, I should have known this already) and it does splash damage to everything, so you almost always get some value out of it.
BTW, when do you guys play (and do you guys hangout in the TL channel)? I would love to play some people who post here sometime.
|
Yeah, we're all in #teamliquid when we're on, so just message us. We play fairly regularly in the evenings.
|
United States4883 Posts
I'm pretty sure my games with xDaunt on Artanis are like 15-2 or something like that, and half of those games we were losing horribly until the very end where we just completely crushed with level 20 Artanis beam.
|
McJarvis #1373
I was on cursed hollow last night before resigning myself to QM games. Despite uther and raynor not showing up to the curse fights on time (or at all in one case), and jaina continually going in and losing half her health bar before the fight even started, she raged at me for half the game for taking abathur and how the map was impossible without a 5th body for teamfights. That's the kind of stuff I was not accustomed to in the rank 20s that I have hit now that I'm in the teens--- may just stop playing abathur in heroleague altogether, since even when we win it is annoying.
|
RE: the lili video
I think the issue here is that many folks on reddit are expanding what he's saying to "lili is not good after all and I can rage against her in heroleague", but her winrate in heroleague is relevant for whether she is the best or good pick in heroleague.
|
People seem to not be able to distinguish cooperative 5 man stacks from solo queue no-comms hero league. The game plays very differently between the two.
|
There is definitely a completely different meta between random hero league teams with no comms and pro games. The stats prove that. Li Li is a really easy hero to play well and for that reason and the lack of coordinated CC she is a good hero league pick. Illidan is a hard hero to play well, and even if you are a good illidan player, without the right comp and team support you are limited in effectiveness. With no comms Nova can get away with a lot more than she would if you could just tell your team mates every time you see her moving stealthed or otherwise around the map.
I think with abathur, it's a combination of people having bad experiences with bad abathur players, and people being completely clueless on how abathur plays. I can't remember the last time Abathur was free to play, so there is a huge chunk of the player base who has never played abathur before at all. I've literally had quick matches where team mates were so clueless that they wanted to report Abathur for afking... You are going to get the default blame from some body once the complaining starts any time your team is losing for "only having 4 players", regardless of your contributions. He isn't an easy hero to play well, but he can be the team MVP if you do.
|
I've also been thinking about what happened that game. For the first curse, both supports stayed top lane. Abathur+3 vs 4 is actually worse ratio wise than Abathur+4 vs 5, so that might have been a contributing factor.
|
Heh, Dreadnought should have shortened his Lili video to just the following 5-second script:
"Lili only works against retards." *drops the mic*
EDIT: The problem is that this game is full of retards to who fail to do the most rudimentary things such as stopping channeling ults.
|
On October 29 2015 00:34 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 00:12 Freezard wrote:
Good video. I hate how people look at win rates from 3rd party sites to justify how good a hero is. I know there was someone here who said Nova has a higher win rate than Valla which makes her better. No, she's not, and the hate for Nova in HL is justified. The new Tassadar on the other hand is freaking awesome and I don't know why he's hated, I guess people are too used to the old mediocre Tassadar to care.
If anyone would pick Artanis in my HL game on the other hand, I would just press the concede button. Possibly the worst hero in the game right now. Lol that's not true! Well, maybe it is, but give Artanis a chance mate. I mean the Nova Hate has been developed over, like 6 months or so and 4000 bad Nova players. And now you have seen what? 2-3 bad Artanis and assume that he is as bad? Nono! Don't be that guy!
Not really basing this on 2-3 bad Artanis, but my win rate vs Artanis was at 80% in my first 40 solo QM games against him. And yeah people ARE playing him badly, that's the thing. People use his Q as a suicide button, when I played ETC I got so many easy kills thanks to the Q. His E is very hard to use effectively in solo queue and then like every Artanis in the world tries to duel me when I'm Illidan which is just dumb. He seems stronger late game, haven't checked out his 20 talents yet, and in organized play he's probably a lot better but in solo queue I prefer not having him on my team.
|
On October 29 2015 02:44 xDaunt wrote:
Heh, Dreadnought should have shortened his Lili video to just the following 5-second script:
"Lili only works against retards." *drops the mic*
EDIT: The problem is that this game is full of retards to who fail to do the most rudimentary things such as stopping channeling ults.
So you've noticed that nazeebos doing ravenous spirit frequently don't notice they are being purifier beamed, eh? 
|
On October 29 2015 02:47 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 02:44 xDaunt wrote:
Heh, Dreadnought should have shortened his Lili video to just the following 5-second script:
"Lili only works against retards." *drops the mic*
EDIT: The problem is that this game is full of retards to who fail to do the most rudimentary things such as stopping channeling ults. So you've noticed that nazeebos doing ravenous spirit frequently don't notice they are being purifier beamed, eh?
Haha, yeah, Nazeebo has become a priority target for Purifier Beam for that very reason. Not quite as good as a stun, but it will work.
I also like dropping the beam on Abathur whenever I get vision of him.
|
So far I've been lucky that every purifier dropped on me has been easily avoided by moving or ultimate evoing.
but then again, I think I have a pretty fast "oh shit hit the space bar" reflex when I see myself taking damage as abby.
|
Ideally if everyone doesn't come, then no one should. Especially with abathur on your side pre-ultimate evolution. Early game as abathur I try to mine all the paths heading from the mid lane both to top and bottom, then throw some more mines around the curse once it shows up to slow and reveal enemies.
It's fine to not go for the first curse, but people should let their team know they aren't coming so they don't go and die for no reason. Diving in and dying to delay them from capping the curse only to find out that no one is coming for the delay to matter is obviously pointless. For all objectives, many players have a bad habit of engaging before waiting for their team to arrive, so they are dead or almost dead by the time help gets there. Even if you are tactically doing the right thing by being at the objective and your team is foolishly not coming promptly, you still need to wait or you are just going to die in vain and still give up the objective with nothing to show for your effort.
|
On October 29 2015 02:27 karazax wrote:
I think with abathur, it's a combination of people having bad experiences with bad abathur players, and people being completely clueless on how abathur plays. I can't remember the last time Abathur was free to play, so there is a huge chunk of the player base who has never played abathur before at all. I've literally had quick matches where team mates were so clueless that they wanted to report Abathur for afking... You are going to get the default blame from some body once the complaining starts any time your team is losing for "only having 4 players", regardless of your contributions. He isn't an easy hero to play well, but he can be the team MVP if you do.
I've only seen Abathur F2P once and it was a few months ago for sure. I think the problem is that he's just hard to play, most Abathurs don't body soak which I admit is something I didn't even think of doing when I played him during that free week, and I think you kind of have to to not fall behind too much since you're only 4vs5 in team fights for objectives. Then everyone seems to have their own build preference and sticks to it regardless of map/composition, at least that's the feeling I get, but mostly I see people going for the push build, a few goes for the mine build and I think the damage build is actually the least common in QM.
|
Oh god. that jaina actually raged at me for body soaking. that's how bad it was.
|
On October 29 2015 02:54 Freezard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 02:27 karazax wrote:
I think with abathur, it's a combination of people having bad experiences with bad abathur players, and people being completely clueless on how abathur plays. I can't remember the last time Abathur was free to play, so there is a huge chunk of the player base who has never played abathur before at all. I've literally had quick matches where team mates were so clueless that they wanted to report Abathur for afking... You are going to get the default blame from some body once the complaining starts any time your team is losing for "only having 4 players", regardless of your contributions. He isn't an easy hero to play well, but he can be the team MVP if you do. I've only seen Abathur F2P once and it was a few months ago for sure. I think the problem is that he's just hard to play, most Abathurs don't body soak which I admit is something I didn't even think of doing when I played him during that free week, and I think you kind of have to to not fall behind too much since you're only 4vs5 in team fights for objectives. Then everyone seems to have their own build preference and sticks to it regardless of map/composition, at least that's the feeling I get, but mostly I see people going for the push build, a few goes for the mine build and I think the damage build is actually the least common in QM.
Oh man, one hero league game on Garden, I was first pick thinking about my pick. 2nd preselects Illidan, 3rd preselects abby. I figure this is going to be good and lock Monk.
Turns out Abby doesn't body soak, does take Adrenal but is too busy with his Monstrosity to hat me or Illi during a fight and the Illidan plays chicken the entire time (I ended with more hero dmg than him). We had a really good Johanna tanking and a decent Valla and ended up winning. But the comp ended up not working out at all like I expected. It has to be said though, scared Illidan is better than yolo Illidan and we just played a poke game until we found people out of position. So you're right, you can't really assume what Abathur is going to do.
|
oh hey I just noticed I finally made gold heroleague on hotslogs. It's been a long road from the 700 mmr I started at back in may.
|
United States4883 Posts
On October 29 2015 03:13 MotherFox wrote:
oh hey I just noticed I finally made gold heroleague on hotslogs. It's been a long road from the 700 mmr I started at back in may.
Holy shit.
|
In quick match I have had the best luck with the build in the C9 Fan guide with Abathur regardless of comp. I got a Johanna, Illidan, Li Li, Valla comp quick match the other day which looked perfect to focus on symbiote, but the players turned out to be terrible. It was Haunted mines, so not a great abathur map anyway. Illidan ended up like 4-10 kill/death ratio, team never went any where together, Johanna would solo engage 4-5 opponents in the mines, and li li went with a damage build. At least with a push build I could have had some map pressure. Probably still lose in that game, but sometimes I can carry quick matches with pushes, where symbiote focus relies on your team mates being good to do much of anything. Of course Illidan player blamed it on only having 4 players.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
