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On May 27 2016 21:48 Alventenie wrote:
I was seven levels ahead of an ai team once. We absolutely crushed them, but we had a 3 assassin team and it was right after chromie came out. A guy just abused the ai badly and we kept some of the ai dead almost the entire game.
Yea I remember spawncamping the AI on Infernal Shrines and getting like 96 kills, annoyingly the catapaults won the game for us before we could get to 100
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Game has millions of players.
Matchmaking is a fucking joke.
I understand it's not the easiest thing to make and work but it has been beyond retarded for months now. I am not good enough that I should be matched with lower players this consistently. Getting thrown into matches where the average is my mmr minus 500 all the time and the salt mines are about to get overloaded, because in most of the games the players refuse to listen or take any hints how to improve their gameplay.
"You have obviously never played hero X"
"Omg what can I do vs hero Y"
"Player (me) is cancer because flaming all game" (Explaining them why it's not a bullshit hero that owned you but their own misplay and what they could've done differently for the situation to work out.)
I understand that streaks happen and are inevitable but this has been going on for way longer than it should have. I keep getting into worse and worse matches but I can't get the team to perform well enough because they're either beyond hope or alternatively just don't want to imagine there might be a better player around.
I'm certainly not the best player in every single match, but the unfortunate truth is that I'm the top performer in almost every single on game my team and it's not just good enough. Eventually I go on tilt and start playing worse, and the sad part is I still end up playing better than most of my team.
I'm just really tired of having to wad through 9 piles of shit to get 1 game that's actually good (whether it's a loss or a win, but one worth playing.)
[I've gone 2 wins to 11 losses trying to get my daily quest done, but apparently the game does not want me to get it done.]
Latest game:
Me = 3.3k
Rest of team = 2827/2688/2528/2285
I am so fucking done. There is no way this game can't find better players than that with these retarded queue lengths if it has millions of players.
Gone down from 3450 to 3250 because of this unbelievable bs.
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On May 27 2016 21:00 ThomasjServo wrote:Which difficulty, I need qualification.
Elite, but does that REALLY matter 
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On May 28 2016 07:49 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2016 21:00 ThomasjServo wrote:On May 27 2016 14:40 Zambrah wrote:
I lost two matches vs. AI earlier. :| Which difficulty, I need qualification. Elite, but does that REALLY matter
I mean, it is better than beginner, or adept.
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8748 Posts
On May 28 2016 07:42 Cephiro wrote:
Latest game:
Me = 3.3k
Rest of team = 2827/2688/2528/2285
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y1ZtZmp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1cgdTwo.png)
So hey even if you work really hard to get higher MMR so you can play with better people, nothing will change! 
I started to think maybe hotslogs and blizz mmr are just far apart, but the knowledge and skill level difference is obvious. Every time I've strongly disagreed with someone's calls or decisions or assessment, they've been under 3k. I like to look them up cuz if they have results to back it up, I'll take their opinions more seriously. Higher MMR players can see a lot more plays as obviously wrong. We tend to disagree on more complicated or close calls and drafts. Pro players see some of those calls as more obvious so higher MMR players usually follow their lead when they give it. But there's all these cocky 2.5k players holy shit. They've just totally plateaued, thinking they already make all the best calls, but they're so bad and so hard to play with. It only takes 1, even if the other 3 are humble and open-minded and trying to learn, it only takes 1 idiot to ruin things.
And god forbid I make one obvious mistake, that even 4k+ players make here and there, cuz then I have 0% chance of them following my calls. And all the times I die when it would've been the right play if my teammates did the right thing, they just think I'm bad and feeding. Even if I die only because the enemy team overextended to kill me, and my team counter-ganks and gets a good trade (kill 2-3 of them and only I died), then I'm bad for dying and my team is carrying me rofl.
I don't even get long wait times. Queue up and within 30 seconds it's me and 4 people way below me.
Can't complain too much though. I'm still mostly winning games, not on a huge loss streak like you. Kinda on a win streak right now but I'm sure that'll flip soon and even out to close to 50-55%
edit: Now I feel some rage. WTF. Look at this after a 30 second queue:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EYIFF23.png)
I'm the 3700 on the losing team... look at these MMR's wtf. And not only that, but it was an all assassin/specialist game on towers of doom, where we had chromie, jaina, murky, nazeebo and falstad (me), and they had a DUO QUEUE NOVA + ZERATUL, who were the 2900 and 3000 players, the two highest on their team, and we were all solo queue. They also had valla, nazeebo and li ming, so their li ming was getting all the resets she could dream of. My chromie was so oblivious, was sitting at top fort and not using Q to interrupt enemy cap even when i ping. I hate to say it but I had a little bit of fun with the challenge, making plays and keeping us in the game, but overall it was more frustrating than fun. Falstad has the tools but other heroes would not and it would have been 100% miserable. Have to queue tank in QM for the best matches
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It's QM, who cares?
Blizz's system still seems focused on mean average mmr over median, though. I think they said in the last patch they changed this for HL?
Either way, the way the game works is 1 lower skilled player will lose more games than 1 higher skilled player will win. It's just the way it is.
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8748 Posts
On May 30 2016 07:12 Larkin wrote:
It's QM, who cares?
Blizz's system still seems focused on mean average mmr over median, though. I think they said in the last patch they changed this for HL?
Either way, the way the game works is 1 lower skilled player will lose more games than 1 higher skilled player will win. It's just the way it is.
Whether it's QM or HL or TL or a tournament, once you're in the game it's the same game you're playing regardless. I play to enjoy the gameplay. My interest isn't generated by how the game was set up.
I think whether 1 lower skilled player drags the team down or 1 higher skilled player lifts the team up depends on who is making the calls. If it's 3700 3000 3000 3000 2300 vs 3000 3000 3000 3000 3000, I think the first team is favored if the 3700 is allowed to make the calls, or if at least the 2300 isn't doing too much independent thinking. If they just follow the team around, like a Jaina that follows a Stitches/Tyrande around, then he'll do fine and the 3700 will carry. Personally I feel like I could lead a draft that minimizes the 2300 liability. The 3k players are likely to call the game worse than the 3700, plus the 3700 will probably outplay some individuals. The 2300's poor game understanding is an absolute non-factor and their poor mechanical skills don't get challenged.
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On May 30 2016 07:43 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 07:12 Larkin wrote:
It's QM, who cares?
Blizz's system still seems focused on mean average mmr over median, though. I think they said in the last patch they changed this for HL?
Either way, the way the game works is 1 lower skilled player will lose more games than 1 higher skilled player will win. It's just the way it is. Whether it's QM or HL or TL or a tournament, once you're in the game it's the same game you're playing regardless. I play to enjoy the gameplay. My interest isn't generated by how the game was set up. I think whether 1 lower skilled player drags the team down or 1 higher skilled player lifts the team up depends on who is making the calls. If it's 3700 3000 3000 3000 2300 vs 3000 3000 3000 3000 3000, I think the first team is favored if the 3700 is allowed to make the calls, or if at least the 2300 isn't doing too much independent thinking. If they just follow the team around, like a Jaina that follows a Stitches/Tyrande around, then he'll do fine and the 3700 will carry. Personally I feel like I could lead a draft that minimizes the 2300 liability. The 3k players are likely to call the game worse than the 3700, plus the 3700 will probably outplay some individuals. The 2300's poor game understanding is an absolute non-factor and their poor mechanical skills don't get challenged.
Sorry, that was a bit flippant of me - what I mean is that I found myself enjoying QM a lot more once I stopped caring about MMR etc and just focused on myself. I want to play, rather than I want to win, if that makes sense. If I come out of the game feeling like I have played flawlessly, then I am happy - if I feel like I have made mistakes, then I know I cannot be mad purely at the team, since I didn't play flawlessly.
You are right, though, in that shotcalling is a big part of it - but also that people listen to the calls, and further to that, if someone isn't listening to the calls, the others know not to go through with it anyway and end up in a 4v5 or whatever. Hero choice (and a fair amount of luck) factors into it a lot in QM, though.
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Well after reading NonY's latest two messages I have absolutely no hope in matchmaking becoming any better whether I improve, drop in MMR, or stay at the same level. It's extremely unfortunate that they allow matches like these to happen.
Don't know if the changes in the new ranked system will make any changes regarding QM but I sure hope they do. That kind of matchups should never happen. I mean seriously, for a player pool in the millions you'd expect to get a better match than that even if you queue up at 3-4 AM or some other terribly quiet time.
And to be honest, I would not mind longer queue times (even if they're already obnoxious) IF they guaranteed more even / sensible matches. However, having to wait multiple minutes to get thrown into a complete shitfest you don't belong in... it's just stupid.
Even if QM is meant to be a more relaxed mode I do agree with NonY in the sense that even if you don't tryhard and play your hardest for a win (which higher ranked players are more likely to go for anyway), it's simply not enjoyable when the skill difference is too big. Stomping enemies is boring even if it might have a momentary amusement value as you roll over them in teamfights. But you don't learn anything off those games nor are they the games why you come back to play. The same stands true for the other way around, if I'm getting completely destroyed (Well, I actually do if it's because every single enemy is that much better, those games are challenging and you might learn something), it's not going to be an enjoyable match. Unfortunately the higher ranked you are, the more likely it is that you're watching a bunch of clueless teammates (compared to your level) throwing the game over and over no matter how nicely you're trying to give hints / shotcall / or even just ping what to do occasionally.
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Matchmaking has been bullshit since beta. I am convinced that the root problem is a low playerbase. There is no other explanation for why it is so hard for good players to get matched with other good players.
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On May 30 2016 11:22 xDaunt wrote:
Matchmaking has been bullshit since beta. I am convinced that the root problem is a low playerbase. There is no other explanation for why it is so hard for good players to get matched with other good players.
The thing is... there are loads of cases of this happening (so why aren't all these players getting matched up together?). And it doesn't happen every game. But the system is definitely flawed in that it intentionally creates this games in order to try and force the 50% win rate goal.
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Play HL, at the start of the game Zagara is AFK more than 1 minute. Enough for their team to take 2 towers, the door, a few kills and 1 level lead. They never lost that lead.
Zagara played poorly all game, no clue what to do at all.
edit, better even: Team Captain asks to prepick. My friend prepicks Ming. He bans Ming. The other team goes 4 assassin 1 healer, we lose because team Captain sucked with Johanna (chased all game instead of protecting us) and Morales died all the time. Yay for troll game.
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On May 30 2016 11:22 xDaunt wrote:
Matchmaking has been bullshit since beta. I am convinced that the root problem is a low playerbase. There is no other explanation for why it is so hard for good players to get matched with other good players.
blizzard also removed US10 6 months ago, losing even more players.
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Hero League.
My comp?
Uther/ Anub'Arak (both our first picks), me ETC, a Greymane, a Raynor.
Uther went for the infamous conjurers pursuit, mana on AA, mana on W, Divine STORM, shrink ray (didnt get any further, luckily) build. Why? "CC IS GOOD" "STORM OP".
Uther died 4 (!?) times because he was auto attacking on a thrall for mana returns? Also, he constantly went to AA minions even when he was on 15% health (read: Enemy Nazeebo/ Tychus/ Thrall can ONESHOT).
AnubArak managed to die in a fun way as well. Constantly using his Q to "initiate" (protip: do not "initiate" during curse, when enemy team has a boss at our keep wall, and lv 13 to 9) (yes, we were that far behind, enemy team got 11 kills on us and we lost tons of soak for "aggressive rotations"... I had 0 deaths so I was not participating, flame flame). Obviously, flame the ETC for not peeling for you. fuck off mate.
And our DPS players? Well, I got a couple of moshes off, but yeah, things are not gonna die if you run around to "get better position" during my 4 man mosh -_-. Then I Q out, I manage to survive, they finally engage, then flame me "ETC WHY YOU PULL BACK".
It is legit impossible to carry in this game, yet it is so easy to helplessly lose because half your team has less than a quarter of a brain. FYI, Anub + Raynor were laning together vs Thrall (leaving me, the ETC, to lane vs Nazeebo + Leoric in the process) and managed to die THREE times in a 2v1 and lose a ton of soak and a tower in the process, before lv 4 talents.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU EVEN MANAGE TO BE SUCH A HORRIFIC PLAYER? HOW?!!
Tilted as fuck now.
Could we like, save replays of these retardedly unfair matchups and just collect them? It's FUBAR.
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I can't for the life of me think of why people get so salty in quickmatch. Played as chromie the other day because--- well, I wanted to practice playing her against real people. Our Johanna half way through the match pitches a fit because she thinks I can't hit skill shots.
So, A) Those enemies wouldn't have gotten away with only a sliver of health if I was missing all my skillshots. And B) I had top hero damage and kill confirms, so the rage didn't even make sense. It seemed like she was more upset that I would dare queue in QM with Chromie than my actual performance.
Ironically, it's largely because of these reactions that I find playing chromie kind of entertaining. I have drafted her twice in heroleague now, and both times received a lot of rage. Both times ended with us winning, me with fewest deaths/most hero damage/ most kill confirms. Both times players went out of their way to message me after the game telling me that the team carried me and I should never draft chromie again.
All that is to say that a lot of people trust in hotslogs as a guide of whether heroes are EVER good to draft. Those same people do not trust the game statistics staring them in the face. It turns out that chromie is the ultimate poker with zero utility. If your team has enough utility, she can often be a trump card in an extended poke war. [And post-13 her range is just silly on towers of doom. With a 3 second CD with that range, she can delay channels forever from inside her own base.]
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I really feel she's underrated too. She'll be 10000 gold this week so I'll buy her and go get flamed in QM.
BTW you should use the mute button more. Usually if anyone flames me, right or wrong, I mute them. It's their problem, not mine. :-)
I've realized something yesterday. I mostly play with and vs terrible players these days. If I go Nova, we lose the early game because people have no idea that KT or Thrall is supposed to be strong in lane. And by the time I can actually kill people we're already 2 levels behind. Sometimes we come back, most of the time we don't. When I get ETC, people let me solo in lane (same issue as Toastie ^^).
So, I realized I have to play strong early game heroes/strong laners until I'm not matched with noobs anymore.
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On May 30 2016 11:22 xDaunt wrote:
Matchmaking has been bullshit since beta. I am convinced that the root problem is a low playerbase. There is no other explanation for why it is so hard for good players to get matched with other good players.
Definitely this. I decided to hop on HotSLogs and do a bit of math to see how many players actually have more than 3000 MMR. I got 2572.
I then looked up the total number of players that are listed in HL and I got 67295.
Doing that math (which is probably generous, given that high-skill players are more likely to use HotSLogs than low-skill players) means approximately 3.8% of players have 3000 MMR or more.
I'm probably going to make a mistake at some point, so feel free to correct me, but I think the chances of having at least one player like this in a game of 10 possible players would be this percentage x 10 = 38%. Not bad.
Following that logic, having at least 2 players of rank 3000 MMR or more would be (3.8% x 10) x (3.8% x 9) = around 13%. Worse, but quite plausible.
The percentages start getting pretty low after that though, with 3 players being around 4%, 4 players being 1%, and 5 players being 0.2%. To have an HL game where all 10 players are 3000 MMR or above would have a 0.000002% chance of happening, or in other words 1 out of every 43 million games.
Granted this whole thing assumes that the entire HotSLogs player base is all online at the same time all the time, which certainly isn't true (and I think assuming this makes the percentage even more generous), but you get the idea. Matchmaking I'm sure will do it's best to make those percentages not seem so bad (for example, making sure you always have at least 1 other rank 3000 MMR player in the game isn't so hard), but asking for even 2 rank 3000 MMR players per team in a game consistently means you're asking the matchmaker to make something that should happen 1 out of every 100 games happen consistently. It can't create games out of nothing.
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Well, except you aren't choosing players randomly from the playerbase: there is supposed to be a matchmaking system picking those players.
But really, the playerbase must be small. I know I play a lot of games, but I get matched with the same people all the time and I'm around rank 10. Feels like the playerbase should be large enough at my level that I'm not seeing the exact same usernames all the time. (And when I say "all the time", I mean it is a genuine surprise if I queue up and don't recognize any usernames in the game, either generally or literally on my friends list.)
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I don't have that feeling in EU, I don't usually recognize name, but that's maybe just me having bad memory.
Regarding the number you provided Ryzel, are they global or just NA?
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On May 31 2016 17:46 Leolio wrote:
I really feel she's underrated too. She'll be 10000 gold this week so I'll buy her and go get flamed in QM.
This is the first character who I haven't necessarily thought was weak just because of a hotslogs winrate. Well, I don't mean that--- she is weak. But what I do mean is that hotslogs is a measurement of how well heroes perform when they are drafted. So it is a measurement of many things: how easy it is to draft a hero, how powerful the hero is, how easy the hero is, etc, etc.
If a hero is niche and difficult to draft does that make them a bad/weak hero? I am unsure about that. But I do think that is chromie's problem: she simply can not fit into and against most comps. Her utility is extremely low and she can't make plays happen. On top of that, there are many factors which make some chromie players effectively not on the field. You need to be able to hit skillshots, know the timing on her stasis bombs so you hit your full combo, and know the timing on your ult so you can hit your full combo.
BTW you should use the mute button more. Usually if anyone flames me, right or wrong, I mute them. It's their problem, not mine. :-)
I've thought about this, but on some level trolling QQ'rs really entertains me. And I'm playing a game to be entertained, so I indulge myself.
I've realized something yesterday. I mostly play with and vs terrible players these days. If I go Nova, we lose the early game because people have no idea that KT or Thrall is supposed to be strong in lane. And by the time I can actually kill people we're already 2 levels behind. Sometimes we come back, most of the time we don't. When I get ETC, people let me solo in lane (same issue as Toastie ^^).
So, I realized I have to play strong early game heroes/strong laners until I'm not matched with noobs anymore.
Well, I dunno if I'm becoming more self-aware or what, but I find myself reflecting on my own mistakes after losses more often than not. Sure, I could get hung up on teammates who engage when we are down talents, but it feels like every game I can point to four or five concrete moments where I don't like what I did in game. And maybe if I hadn't made those mistakes, our team could have made it through despite the other players making mistakes too.
I do think that it's valuable to draft heroes which can get you leads in the early game. Most players do not know how to play from behind.
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EPT
