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On May 22 2015 17:59 ahswtini wrote:
i had someone tell me that heroes has over 13 million players right now and it's blowing dota's "6 million" out of the water :crazy:
except that they were inferring the 13 million number based off an interview where the devs said there were 11 million signed up to the beta, and therefore that all 11 million are now playing, and with open beta another 2 million ppl joined. forget ppl with multiple bnet accounts. and then comparing to the made up dota 6 million number, which isnt even correct.
Is there any reason to assume that more people mutli-account Heroes than Dota (that is to say, why can't we just compare the numbers against each other)? I would assume LoL has a lot of multi-accounts due to how active they are banning (I also don't know if Riot self-corrects their numbers to exclude banned accounts when they report).
But even so, 2 million players in open beta would be a fantastic number (and with global play I doubt most new players are signing up in triplicate). Is there a source for the 2 million number? I've only seen the 11 million sign-ups number, which they were already bragging about at this quarter's earnings call (not to mention the viewership for Heroes of the Dorm). Somehow that's not good enough for JimmyJRaynor and they have to brag about something else to prove they believe in the game or something.
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Anyone else feels like QM got much easier after public beta? I get a lot of people who have no idea what they are doing in my games.
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On May 23 2015 02:30 Ej_ wrote:
Anyone else feels like QM got much easier after public beta? I get a lot of people who have no idea what they are doing in my games.
I got the opposite. Nothing but good players on the enemy team and absolutely horrid players on mine.
One game went 17-12 in levels because Raynor had to keep 1v5ing every single time and the others decided to try that too.
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On May 23 2015 02:32 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 02:30 Ej_ wrote:
Anyone else feels like QM got much easier after public beta? I get a lot of people who have no idea what they are doing in my games. I got the opposite. Nothing but good players on the enemy team and absolutely horrid players on mine. One game went 17-12 in levels because Raynor had to keep 1v5ing every single time and the others decided to try that too.
Sounds like what it was like when closed beta started.
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On May 23 2015 01:43 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 00:26 Darthsanta13 wrote:On May 22 2015 22:35 Hider wrote:Blizzard made a smart move targeting a different audience. (2) A low skillcap imo isn't really as much as a differentiating factor as just an inferior product. I don't remember any other succesful real sport or other game where the individual skill has been this low (and there is a reason for it). Again, the the goal should be easy-to-learn, difficult to master (CS is another great example here). Differentiating factors = Faster, more action, teamfights, talents, Blizzard heroes and objectives. You could easily maintain a large distance from LOL while maintaining or even increasing the mechanical skillcap of LOL. Hearthstone is exactly this. By every metric, Hearthstone has been wildly popular, and it's not exactly a challenging game to play. It wouldn't shock me at all if Blizzard believes that the model they have with Hearthstone can translate to other genres as well. And they have pretty good reason to believe this. Heartstone is amazing in terms of how easy it is too learn, and thats a good thing. But I am also sure the game has a reasonable level of skillcap.
I'm not sure what you're implying HS has that HotS doesn't by saying that HS has a reasonable skillcap. I've played HS extensively and at a reasonably high level, and I've played at least a little bit of HotS, and while HS does take lots of skill, I would never think that it has a higher skillcap than HotS.
Put another way, If you arbitrarily have two players/teams, in HotS and HS, there is far more you can do in HotS to differentiate yourself as a better player/team than there is in HS.
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and while HS does take lots of skill, I would never think that it has a higher skillcap than HotS.
I don't really know this genre well enough to go into detail here, so let me put in a different way. If there already was another company on the market that had an extremely succesful product, and you offered a competiting product and intentionally reduced the skillcap (without further reducing the learning barrier), that would imo be a bad change - ceteris paribus.
And HotS doesn't have this...why?
HOTS is attempting to enter a new industry that is very crowded with strong competitors. That's pretty different from what HS did.
On top of that I am not sure Hearthstone intentionally has reduced the skill cap in any way. The primary intention has been to reduce the learning barrier, and that can sometimes result in a lower skill cap as well. The point is that gamedevelopers should strife for the as easy as possible to learn with the highest skillcap possible.
Easy to learn, modestly easy to master < easy to learn hard to master.
Hard to learn, hard to master < easy to learn, hard to master.
But even so, 2 million players in open beta would be a fantastic number (and with global play I doubt most new players are signing up in triplicate). Is there a source for the 2 million number? I've only seen the 11 million sign-ups number, which they were already bragging about at this quarter's earnings call (not to mention the viewership for Heroes of the Dorm). Somehow that's not good enough for JimmyJRaynor and they have to brag about something else to prove they believe in the game or something.
Actually, the higher the number the worse it is for Blizzard. Right now there isn't that much talk/hype about HOTS and viewer numbers are relatively low. If millions of people has actually downloaded and tried the game, that implies a very low percentage of people who enjoy it to people who have tried the game.
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I think HoTs does have a much lower learning curve than other Moba due to talents being more intuitive than items (also no gold farming).
I think it's hard to compare simplifying the learning barrier in a game that has no mechanical component, but I would argue that shared XP removed a learning barrier that doesn't reduce the skill cap too (other than needing to be more aware of level differences I guess? and removing the concept of hard-carries in the game. but some heroes definitely are weak early in HoTs as well).
Gold/items/last hitting is a more contentious of course, because it's clearly a mechanical skill that got removed, but was it a meaningful skill that differentiates good and great players in LoL/Dota? Of course it would matter between bad and less bad, but then that's not really a skill-cap issue but a learning barrier imo.
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Mexico2170 Posts
As far as I know, Blizzard has NEVER said they purposely dumbed.down the game.or reduced the skill cap, and contrary to what you've said they have reputedly mention in interviews the easy to learn hard to master philosophy is applied in this game.
Also they skill discussion is completely ridiculous and has been shown time and time again to not have an effect on the popularity of a game. If people find it fun they will play it, that's all.
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Also they skill discussion is completely ridiculous and has been shown time and time again to not have an effect on the popularity of a game. If people find it fun they will play it, that's all.
No, people have repediately confused easy game with low entrance barrier. Its super important to disguinish between those two aspects, and based on your comments you are making the same mistake here. League is succesful because its easy to learn but has a pretty high skill cap. That's no the case for most heroes in HOTS!
And the best way to increase the skillcap is not to add extra complicated buttons to press, but imo to implement talent choices that can "transform" alot of heroes into playmakers if properly played. This makes the skillcap a choice.
As far as I know, Blizzard has NEVER said they purposely dumbed.down the game.or reduced the skill cap, and contrary to what you've said they have reputedly mention in interviews the easy to learn hard to master philosophy is applied in this game.
They used Raynor as an example of a an easy-to-learn hard to master hero! Are you buying for that? Don't trust blindly what they say, but rather assess what they actually do.
And explain to me then where the Zed, Yasuo and Vayne in this game? Where are the resembleances of the most popular League champs in Heroes of the Storm? I don't see anything close to that, which leaves us with one of 3 explanations:
(1) They will come at a future date, which indirectly implies that Heroes of the Storm currently is an inferior in terms of hero design to LOL.
(2) Blizzard doesn't know how to make playmaking-champs, which implies they are incompetent
(3) Blizzard do not want them in the game or at least want as few as possible (so it is kept to the level of Zeratul). This imo a mistake, but its definitely one that can be debated.
Which one sounds most plausbile to you? I pick number 3.
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On May 23 2015 03:16 Wuster wrote:
I think HoTs does have a much lower learning curve than other Moba due to talents being more intuitive than items (also no gold farming).
I think it's hard to compare simplifying the learning barrier in a game that has no mechanical component, but I would argue that shared XP removed a learning barrier that doesn't reduce the skill cap too (other than needing to be more aware of level differences I guess? and removing the concept of hard-carries in the game. but some heroes definitely are weak early in HoTs as well).
Gold/items/last hitting is a more contentious of course, because it's clearly a mechanical skill that got removed, but was it a meaningful skill that differentiates good and great players in LoL/Dota? Of course it would matter between bad and less bad, but then that's not really a skill-cap issue but a learning barrier imo.
I actually learned both LOL and Heroes 6-9 months ago and found both games very comparable in terms of how easy they are to learn. I think learning how to use the objectives in all of the HOTS maps is a learning curve too. Items aren't that complicated since you can just buy recommended items as a new player.
I think the the real barrier in LOL is related to the jungle and the rune-system. Some champs can't jungle properly and you need runes to jungle as well. But in terms of playing basic lanes, I definitely feel that LOL wasn't hard to learn, and you can opt to have 5 laning players when you start out anyway.
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On May 23 2015 04:05 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 03:16 Wuster wrote:
I think HoTs does have a much lower learning curve than other Moba due to talents being more intuitive than items (also no gold farming).
I think it's hard to compare simplifying the learning barrier in a game that has no mechanical component, but I would argue that shared XP removed a learning barrier that doesn't reduce the skill cap too (other than needing to be more aware of level differences I guess? and removing the concept of hard-carries in the game. but some heroes definitely are weak early in HoTs as well).
Gold/items/last hitting is a more contentious of course, because it's clearly a mechanical skill that got removed, but was it a meaningful skill that differentiates good and great players in LoL/Dota? Of course it would matter between bad and less bad, but then that's not really a skill-cap issue but a learning barrier imo. I actually learned both LOL and Heroes 6-9 months ago and found both games very comparable in terms of how easy they are to learn. I think learning how to use the objectives in all of the HOTS maps is a learning curve too. Items aren't that complicated since you can just buy recommended items as a new player. I think the the real barrier in LOL is related to the jungle and the rune-system. Some champs can't jungle properly and you need runes to jungle as well. But in terms of playing basic lanes, I definitely feel that LOL wasn't hard to learn, and you can opt to have 5 laning players when you start out anyway.
Considering that I have gotten quite a few friends to learn Heroes but they couldn't manage to learn what items are actually good in lol before getting bored I'd say that from my experience its easier to learn Heroes. For myself I have played enough games that none was hard to learn at all
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wtv Heroes is fun and LoL and Dota are boring as shit i quit them after 1-5 games and have over 1.5k on heroes so ye dont care about the whats ez or hard i play games to have fun
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Wow, blackcorps is not a having a good game as illidan. He's feeding 5 kills for nothing.
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Hi guys...anyone had any graphical issues after the KT patch? I cant seem to get the settings up....it all defaulted to low, even in the menu screen (the freaking daily quest badges have pixels the size of pizzas) and no matter how many times I change everything to ultra it doesn't "save" and keeps me in that horrid boxy game (in game the difference is even bigger than in the menu screen).
And no, before the patch none of my computers ran this game on low....
Furthermore, my dailies today included 2 diablo hero games and 3 warrior hero games...played Diablo himself... got 0 games on both quests. It is true that I played against the AI (since my connection is being changed and is not stable) but usually these practice games were counted towards the daily quests objectives. Did that change?
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On May 24 2015 05:54 KobraKay wrote:
Furthermore, my dailies today included 2 diablo hero games and 3 warrior hero games...played Diablo himself... got 0 games on both quests. It is true that I played against the AI (since my connection is being changed and is not stable) but usually these practice games were counted towards the daily quests objectives. Did that change?
Can't help with the technical stuff, but you need to play at least with other ppl vs the AI. Was called co-op before, now its Vs AI and don't check the "fill your roster with AI players".
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On May 24 2015 11:28 Talaris wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 05:54 KobraKay wrote:
Furthermore, my dailies today included 2 diablo hero games and 3 warrior hero games...played Diablo himself... got 0 games on both quests. It is true that I played against the AI (since my connection is being changed and is not stable) but usually these practice games were counted towards the daily quests objectives. Did that change? Can't help with the technical stuff, but you need to play at least with other ppl vs the AI. Was called co-op before, now its Vs AI and don't check the "fill your roster with AI players".
you can play vs ai with ai on your side just not training to complete daily quests
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On May 24 2015 17:47 DODswe4 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2015 11:28 Talaris wrote:On May 24 2015 05:54 KobraKay wrote:
Furthermore, my dailies today included 2 diablo hero games and 3 warrior hero games...played Diablo himself... got 0 games on both quests. It is true that I played against the AI (since my connection is being changed and is not stable) but usually these practice games were counted towards the daily quests objectives. Did that change? Can't help with the technical stuff, but you need to play at least with other ppl vs the AI. Was called co-op before, now its Vs AI and don't check the "fill your roster with AI players". you can play vs ai with ai on your side just not training to complete daily quests
Ok, thanks. But that was not the case before.
Both Co-Op and practice were counted towards the dailies. I don't mind at all as I don't play practice matches (it was just due to the connection being taken care of and not being sure if it was good enough to hold without interruption for a whole game), I was just curious to confirm the change.
Thanks guys 
I still have no clue what happened to the graphical part but it is rather annoying as the whole game looks weird T_T and it should be a local thing, as I watch Grubby's stream from time to time and haven't noticed any of this (although I know it would be harder to spot over a stream).
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After the last patch Heroes asked for an admin rights confirmation. (I just saw it because I alt tabbed) So might be that your Windows is preventing Heroes from changing the options files.
It is just a wild guess though.
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On May 24 2015 05:54 KobraKay wrote:
Hi guys...anyone had any graphical issues after the KT patch? I cant seem to get the settings up....it all defaulted to low, even in the menu screen (the freaking daily quest badges have pixels the size of pizzas) and no matter how many times I change everything to ultra it doesn't "save" and keeps me in that horrid boxy game (in game the difference is even bigger than in the menu screen).
And no, before the patch none of my computers ran this game on low....
Furthermore, my dailies today included 2 diablo hero games and 3 warrior hero games...played Diablo himself... got 0 games on both quests. It is true that I played against the AI (since my connection is being changed and is not stable) but usually these practice games were counted towards the daily quests objectives. Did that change?
Probably a dumb question, but did you change your screen resolution manually? I don't think this is included in the standard 'medium, high, ultra, etc' settings. Similar thing happened to me and I just hadn't realized that setting the graphics to 'high' didn't adjust my screen resolution which had for some reason had been automatically set back down to something very low after the patch.
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EPT
