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Whale Wars - Page 15

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jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
February 16 2011 22:07 GMT
#281
are they hunting endangered whales knowing they're endangered?
as long as they don't touch endangered ones i dont see the problem.
why are whales so important compared to say, children dying of starvation in poor countries.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
LaLLsc2
Profile Joined September 2010
United States502 Posts
February 16 2011 22:13 GMT
#282
They do kill endangered species on occasion. Also their daily quota is over 50 whales a day as a group.. You dont need 50 wales a day for "research", also the specific area they are hunting has been deemed a sanctuary by the UN, problem is that there is nobody in these areas to uphold the law. Since that is the case, the Seashepards are doing the best they can in non-violent ways.

Also, if you watched the shows, it was obvious that the fisherman acted much more aggressively than the seashepards..
Live and Let Live
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10482 Posts
February 16 2011 22:13 GMT
#283
On February 17 2011 07:07 LaLLsc2 wrote:
I've watched every episode for the past seasons! This suspension is great news, hopefully it is indefinitely.. research my ass


This is terrible news. It means there won't be new seasons because they have nothing to film now..
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
February 16 2011 22:49 GMT
#284
Nature exists as an unclaimed pool of resources. Mankind exists and thrives only because of our conquering of nature. Our taking of natural resources from nature and changing them to fit our will. That is how the world is improved. What humanity (or other sentient life) doesn't alter in the universe exists arbitrarily, meaninglessly, and to no purpose whatsoever.

That being said, you do not have a claim on nature, or a right to it, until you actually go out there and make your claim on it. You do not have the rights to the coal that rests in the earth unless it's you who puts a stake in the land above it, and subsequently extracts it and puts it to use. The same applies to a whale. It is not a sentient being. It has no claim to itself. If you haven't put your sentience to work in claiming the whale, by your actions and not just by your words, it is up for grabs.

If it's in international waters, if it's the subject of no relavent treaty, you don't have the right either to harass other sentient beings who are acting within their rights. This goes against the premises on which civilization was built, the better those premises were understood, the more civilized we became.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
FoliuS
Profile Joined August 2010
United States34 Posts
February 16 2011 23:56 GMT
#285
On February 17 2011 07:49 zobz wrote:
Nature exists as an unclaimed pool of resources. Mankind exists and thrives only because of our conquering of nature. Our taking of natural resources from nature and changing them to fit our will. That is how the world is improved. What humanity (or other sentient life) doesn't alter in the universe exists arbitrarily, meaninglessly, and to no purpose whatsoever.

That being said, you do not have a claim on nature, or a right to it, until you actually go out there and make your claim on it. You do not have the rights to the coal that rests in the earth unless it's you who puts a stake in the land above it, and subsequently extracts it and puts it to use. The same applies to a whale. It is not a sentient being. It has no claim to itself. If you haven't put your sentience to work in claiming the whale, by your actions and not just by your words, it is up for grabs.

If it's in international waters, if it's the subject of no relavent treaty, you don't have the right either to harass other sentient beings who are acting within their rights. This goes against the premises on which civilization was built, the better those premises were understood, the more civilized we became.


You are right in all you said, except the "international waters" that these whalers are doing "scientific research" in are protected under international law for commercial whaling. They are killing these whales in a protected whale sanctuary because it is easier for them since there are greater numbers of whales which reside there.

They could go into real international waters and whale to their heart's content and the Sea Shepherds would have no legal right to harass them. But since that is not the case, I am glad they have had to cut their whaling season short. They shouldn't be down there in the first place, they payoff small island nations with bribe money to vote in their favor in international commitees, and they do it just because there is huge black market for whale meat.
Do, or Do Not. There is no try.
Kazzabiss
Profile Joined December 2010
1006 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 00:07:24
February 17 2011 00:07 GMT
#286
This show and it's viewers annoy me so much...
"save the 50 whales a day! Ignore the millions of other animals and humans that are killed everyday" Paraphrased of course.
ALL ABOARD THE INTERNET BANDWAGON
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 00:17:18
February 17 2011 00:11 GMT
#287
On February 17 2011 09:07 Kazzabiss wrote:
This show and it's viewers annoy me so much...
"save the 50 whales a day! Ignore the millions of other animals and humans that are killed everyday" Paraphrased of course.

I don't watch the show since the first season but.. I never really understood this reasoning. Why criticize people for getting off their asses and doing something for whatever cause they consider worthwhile? They know they can't save the fucking world, no one can. At least they're doing something, so what do you do?
Yttrasil
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden651 Posts
February 17 2011 00:13 GMT
#288
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.
Meh
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 00:16:02
February 17 2011 00:14 GMT
#289
On August 17 2010 00:22 Celestial wrote:
Honestly the amount of effort for the extreme actions they do on the show could probably better be spent persuading the people who eat whale meat to eat other kinds, probably maybe even help pay for it. I don't know, this show seems extremely inefficient with the way they're going about things.


I've dated a girl from Japan for three years. In those three years, I've learned that it's easier to move Mt. Fuji, then it is to convince the Japanese that they should reconsider some part of their traditional culture.

It doesn't help that anyone doing so is labelled a racist.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
February 17 2011 00:23 GMT
#290
On February 17 2011 09:13 Yttrasil wrote:
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.


Freedom doesn't imply that you can do whatever you want to do.

Not that I agree with the methods those groups use.
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
February 17 2011 00:33 GMT
#291
On February 17 2011 09:13 Yttrasil wrote:
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.


You think whales want to be eaten? Why can't they swim free like we can traverse the earth free? They're mammals like us. I sure as hell don't want to be harpooned and dragged onto a ship dying, why should a whale?

If you want to acknowledge this idea of freedom, you have to acknowledge the deprivation of freedom caused by the actions of those who have the freedom.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16984 Posts
February 17 2011 00:35 GMT
#292
On February 17 2011 09:33 stevarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 09:13 Yttrasil wrote:
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.


You think whales want to be eaten? Why can't they swim free like we can traverse the earth free? They're mammals like us. I sure as hell don't want to be harpooned and dragged onto a ship dying, why should a whale?

If you want to acknowledge this idea of freedom, you have to acknowledge the deprivation of freedom caused by the actions of those who have the freedom.


The same argument can be made of cows.
Moderator
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
February 17 2011 00:49 GMT
#293
On February 17 2011 09:35 Empyrean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 09:33 stevarius wrote:
On February 17 2011 09:13 Yttrasil wrote:
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.


You think whales want to be eaten? Why can't they swim free like we can traverse the earth free? They're mammals like us. I sure as hell don't want to be harpooned and dragged onto a ship dying, why should a whale?

If you want to acknowledge this idea of freedom, you have to acknowledge the deprivation of freedom caused by the actions of those who have the freedom.


The same argument can be made of cows.


I see your point, but no.

Even if we abstract away that cows are not endangered species, at least in most (every?) modern country there are laws/standards for slaughtering that prevent torturing the animals. I don't see how that is the case for whales.

To Yttrasil: What is when I want the freedom to watch whales? With killing/hunting a endangerd species you take that freedom away from me. There is always two sides of the same coin.
NIJ
Profile Joined March 2010
1012 Posts
February 17 2011 01:05 GMT
#294
On February 17 2011 09:14 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 00:22 Celestial wrote:
Honestly the amount of effort for the extreme actions they do on the show could probably better be spent persuading the people who eat whale meat to eat other kinds, probably maybe even help pay for it. I don't know, this show seems extremely inefficient with the way they're going about things.


I've dated a girl from Japan for three years. In those three years, I've learned that it's easier to move Mt. Fuji, then it is to convince the Japanese that they should reconsider some part of their traditional culture.

It doesn't help that anyone doing so is labelled a racist.


Rrrrrrright. Cause clearly japanese historically were terrible at discarding/adopting cultural practices when it suited them... o wait.

You fuck one japanese girl and think you know them all. I wonder why they label you a racist. Hmm...

Act of thinking logically cannot possibly be natural to the human mind. If it were, then mathematics would be everybody's easiest course at school and our species would not have taken several millennia to figure out the scientific method -NDT
Liquoid
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom275 Posts
February 17 2011 01:07 GMT
#295
On February 17 2011 10:05 NIJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 09:14 Nightfall.589 wrote:
On August 17 2010 00:22 Celestial wrote:
Honestly the amount of effort for the extreme actions they do on the show could probably better be spent persuading the people who eat whale meat to eat other kinds, probably maybe even help pay for it. I don't know, this show seems extremely inefficient with the way they're going about things.


I've dated a girl from Japan for three years. In those three years, I've learned that it's easier to move Mt. Fuji, then it is to convince the Japanese that they should reconsider some part of their traditional culture.

It doesn't help that anyone doing so is labelled a racist.


Rrrrrrright. Cause clearly japanese historically were terrible at discarding/adopting cultural practices when it suited them... o wait.

You fuck one japanese girl and think you know them all. I wonder why they label you a racist. Hmm...


As if you now better.
Yttrasil
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden651 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 01:09:30
February 17 2011 01:08 GMT
#296
On February 17 2011 09:35 Empyrean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 09:33 stevarius wrote:
On February 17 2011 09:13 Yttrasil wrote:
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.


You think whales want to be eaten? Why can't they swim free like we can traverse the earth free? They're mammals like us. I sure as hell don't want to be harpooned and dragged onto a ship dying, why should a whale?

If you want to acknowledge this idea of freedom, you have to acknowledge the deprivation of freedom caused by the actions of those who have the freedom.


The same argument can be made of cows.


Generally to Keniji and Stavarius
Yep, I don't see why they should be treated differently than lets say cows. They are not even endangered especially not the one being mainly hunted so that arguement of not being able to watch them is for naught. It's like saying we should not kill cows because in the future we might not be able to see them, the same goes for whales.

Using that argument that whales are free, then why should whales be treated differently from again the cows? They certainly don't want to be eaten either. :D What if a whale wants to be eaten, should it be allowed then?

So let me then try this argument, if we can catch and kill whales in a humane way, should it then be allowed? If you say no then you argue against yourself... if you say yes well then all your other arguments fall.


Meh
NIJ
Profile Joined March 2010
1012 Posts
February 17 2011 01:10 GMT
#297
On February 17 2011 10:07 Liquoid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 10:05 NIJ wrote:
On February 17 2011 09:14 Nightfall.589 wrote:
On August 17 2010 00:22 Celestial wrote:
Honestly the amount of effort for the extreme actions they do on the show could probably better be spent persuading the people who eat whale meat to eat other kinds, probably maybe even help pay for it. I don't know, this show seems extremely inefficient with the way they're going about things.


I've dated a girl from Japan for three years. In those three years, I've learned that it's easier to move Mt. Fuji, then it is to convince the Japanese that they should reconsider some part of their traditional culture.

It doesn't help that anyone doing so is labelled a racist.


Rrrrrrright. Cause clearly japanese historically were terrible at discarding/adopting cultural practices when it suited them... o wait.

You fuck one japanese girl and think you know them all. I wonder why they label you a racist. Hmm...


As if you now better.


As if you know better.
Act of thinking logically cannot possibly be natural to the human mind. If it were, then mathematics would be everybody's easiest course at school and our species would not have taken several millennia to figure out the scientific method -NDT
Roeder
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark735 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 01:19:44
February 17 2011 01:18 GMT
#298
Bunch of fat ignorant hippies with no real decent knowledge behind their projects nor proper solutions.
Same goes for most of Greenpeace ideas/treats.
It's fun to watch it, but only because Paul Watson is a really, really ignorant hippie, and his fellow companions are complete tools.

Man, I wish I had that many tools to command. It's just like Starcraft. He's got a ship full of SCVs.

Also that quote "We're not ...something something, we're pirates".
If they were the real pirates, It'd be a lot safer sailing around near Somali.

But it's not really their shiny rainbow causes I hate, it's more the way they promote themselves whilst being complete pussies when it comes down to it.
If they actually did more than the mainstream activist bulls*** you can find everywhere already, It'd be much more funny.

There's a South Park episode somewhere that shows it pretty well.
Also throwing paint and stink bombs doesn't help. And if they somehow ruin the whale after it's captivity (and probably death) they just make the meat useless, and the Japanese will go out and hunt one more instead, I believe.

Nah, if they want to solve this they have to go political and not run around like a fat bunch of tools.
Starcraft is a mix between chess, poker and a Michael Bay movie.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10482 Posts
February 17 2011 01:19 GMT
#299
On February 17 2011 09:33 stevarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2011 09:13 Yttrasil wrote:
I hate the suspension, I love whale meat especially on sushi and I find it just as stupid to stop hunting whales as stopping to eat normal conventional meat. Don't want to give up on it just cause some stupid organizations use whatever weapons they can find to stop whaling.

Let people make their own choise what to do, if demand ceases then it obviously will stop same as with any other thing. God I hate groups like this and Greenpeace, making life hard for us people who wants to live our lives free.


You think whales want to be eaten? Why can't they swim free like we can traverse the earth free? They're mammals like us. I sure as hell don't want to be harpooned and dragged onto a ship dying, why should a whale?


Yeah, because us humans can travel freely wherever we want without ever worrying about being attacked by other animals.
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
February 17 2011 02:00 GMT
#300
On February 17 2011 07:07 jinorazi wrote:
are they hunting endangered whales knowing they're endangered?
as long as they don't touch endangered ones i dont see the problem.
why are whales so important compared to say, children dying of starvation in poor countries.


They're not. Not even close. Saving whales (endangered or not), bringing back the Dodo, re-animating wooly mammoth remains - whatever - should take a backseat to dealing with the multitude of human beings whose quality of life is atrocious.

It's sad that retards who don't seem to understand that are afforded TV platforms to spout (sorry, I had to) their nonsense.
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