11-year-old college grad: I’m no genius Devotee of martial arts, astrophysics says he’s ‘regular kid who works hard’
Moshe Kai Cavalin, 11, graduated with honors Friday from East Los Angeles College, but he'd rather you not call him a genius.
"I consider myself a regular kid who works hard and does his best," says this only child of a Taiwanese mother and an Israeli father.
When Moshe started college at the age of 8, he may have been the youngest person in class, but he ended up tutoring some of his 19- and 20-year-old classmates in math and science.
Astrophysics is his passion. Albert Einstein and Bruce Lee are among his idols.
Yet like a twist out of a Hollywood action flick, Moshe combines his exceptional smarts with fearsome martial arts abilities: The preteen has won numerous national martial arts championships.
Up next for the tireless boy wonder: In the next six months to a year, he plans to devote himself to martial arts, write a book for kids on how to succeed in school, and take up scuba diving.
Not on the agenda: playing video games.
"I feel it's a waste of time playing video games because it's not helping humanity in any way," says Moshe, who wants to use his knowledge to change the world.
tl;dr:
'I feel it's a waste of time playing video games because it's not helping humanity in any way."
"I consider myself a regular kid who works hard and does his best."
What do you think of this kid? Seriously, spending his childhood not playing at all is just =.="
-What does an 11 year old know? -Life itself is a waste of time -Feel sorry for the poor kid who doesn't know how to relax/recreate at that young age. -Apologize to the pro gamers -Its up to people what they do with their time. Whether its a waste depends on how you look at it. -Its humanities right to waste time -Agree - console games are a waste of time but Chess is fine. -Just as the kid says - games are a waste of time. -Most humans lives are a waste of time - apart from some geniuses. -What is that virgin talking about? -Healthcare is also a waste of time -Games are good for relieving stress -He most certainly looks down on the folks around him -Tell him about eroge -Life is CLANNAD -I bet he was a FF11 heavy user -He looks like the type to play with Wikipedia when hes got free time.
I don't think everyone's goal is 'helping humanity', nor is it possible to devote all your time to it. Obviously the kid is a genius but he's still only 11 so he's going to make naive statements, who cares.
Lol, if you follow this logic then you will see that very few things truly help humanity and thus almost everything we do is a waste of time. Well, I guess if you count procreating (aka chasing tail) as helping humanity then I suppose some people don't waste that much time...
On June 09 2009 00:59 dubRa wrote: First: only 11 Second: mind controlled by parents
Well I'm not going to hold his age against him, except that I have to agree that at that age he probably is just regurgitating everything his parents are telling him.
Making games is furthering entertainment. (Arguably bettering humanity, but not most effectively.)
Entertainment is a 'waste of time' in comparison to 'bettering humanity'.
I'd say the kid is partially right, but most of us don't consider everything that isn't most effectively bettering humanity to the highest degree possible a waste of time. For example, it's like complaining that efforts stopping poachers is a waste of time because humans are still being killed.
I hate to agree (partially) with the kid because making games is what I do, but he is prettymuch right in theory.
My mom showed me this. She specifically pointed out
"I feel it's a waste of time playing video games because it's not helping humanity in any way," says Moshe, who wants to use his knowledge to change the world.
The first thing I thought about was how he just insulted every single progamer in the world, then I thought about how this line of thinking could be applied to anything.
On June 09 2009 01:18 foeffa wrote: He'll get a humongous burnout and depression at some point. Bet he will regret not having been a kid at that point.
Just like all of these wonder kids, I haven't heard of anyone who got a college degree uber fast actually contributing anything special after that. Most stops at some point and questions why they should have to work their ass of and when in hell they will be able to relax. The deal is that they are driven by their parents, as soon as they get disconnected from them they get like "Oh, so this is how you party!!!!".
I am sure that the average person could graduate college by at least the age of 15 if the parents just raised them correctly, but the deal is that there are other things in life than just getting a college degree...
On June 09 2009 01:18 foeffa wrote: He'll get a humongous burnout and depression at some point. Bet he will regret not having been a kid at that point.
+1
Seen it from tons of child prodigies before. Luckily this one hasn't committed suicide; my neighbor who graduated college at 14 did. Even when the kid's minds are made for that much school that early, rarely is society ready to accept them. Damn shame.
On June 09 2009 01:24 Klockan3 wrote: I am sure that the average person could graduate college by at least the age of 15 if the parents just raised them correctly, but the deal is that there are other things in life than just getting a college degree...
I would say it shows a lack of life experience. For one, graduating from college at 11 has something to do with being a genius or being gifted. From his point of view it may have been just hard work, but every other normal 11 year old, its pretty much impossible. His statement about gaming seems idealistic, but you can't expect a 11 year old to be fully realistic. Just give him another 11 years to become corrupted by life.
Also you can only waste time, if you want to accomplish something in your time. But having fun is nothing you can accomplish, it's a mental state you are in while doing "fun things". Problem with his statement is, the basis of it is, that every activity should help humanity in some way. But for what reason should we help humanity? So other people can also devote their time to help humanity and so on? A neverending circle of people helping other people to help more people? But isn't all the technical stuff we use today there to help us enjoy life? To have more free time we can use to have fun? If this kid is right, civilization is a false illusion of progress, as we all are just wasting our time. Maybe we should go back to the stone age, so we have to devote most (if not all) of our time on surviving =).
Don't forget there are a lot of people working in the gaming industry, so you playing video games is helping them pay their bills.
Dont get all bent out of shape over an 11 year old kid. Sure he's book smart and is talking big, but my way of helping humanity is being happy and enjoying my life. There will always be someone 'better' than you, but who cares if he graduated early, props to him, but its not something I'd want to do.
On June 09 2009 01:59 Piy wrote: Astrophysics is a waste of time. So is martial arts. fact.
I would not consider astrophysics a waste of time in the aspect of furthering humanity. Martial arts however would have a lesser impact on furthering humanity.
I think this kid just needs to grow up first, some things you can't teach people in school and making generalized comments about things he hasn't experienced fully probably isn't smart.
Meh, he's just regurgitating what his parent say. How would astrophysics benefit humanity? So we know more about the world. Maybe he'll discover why accretion discs surrounding certain astronomical objects, such as the nuclei of active galaxies, emit relativistic jets along their polar axes? Whoop-dee-doo? That's only a benefit because a bunch of people tell everyone else think it's a benefit. As far as relevance this is about as important as deciding whether God is male or female while that assuming he/she exists for the problem's sake (the proof of which will be provided later). Even if astrophysics were to somehow lead to practical results, who cares? So what if it makes a lot of things possible? That doesn't measure benefit to humanity. You could invent invent a new weapon to make more things possible too. As for happiness? Few things provide net bonus to happiness. For every person who can get pr0n on the internet there is someone else out there getting trolled/bullied on the internet. But even if there were a net increase of happiness, so what? That doesn't mean it's a net benefit to humanity. So yeah. Bitches. I just wrote a paragraph arguing against an 11-year-old's remark about gaming. Fuck, am I proud of myself.
On June 09 2009 02:49 Hippopotamus wrote: Meh, he's just regurgitating what his parent say. How would astrophysics benefit humanity? So we know more about the world. Maybe he'll discover why accretion discs surrounding certain astronomical objects, such as the nuclei of active galaxies, emit relativistic jets along their polar axes? Whoop-dee-doo? That's only a benefit because a bunch of people tell everyone else think it's a benefit. As far as relevance this is about as important as deciding whether God is male or female while that assuming he/she exists for the problem's sake (the proof of which will be provided later). Even if astrophysics were to somehow lead to practical results, who cares? So what if it makes a lot of things possible? That doesn't measure benefit to humanity. You could invent invent a new weapon to make more things possible too. As for happiness? Few things provide net bonus to happiness. For every person who can get pr0n on the internet there is someone else out there getting trolled/bullied on the internet. But even if there were a net increase of happiness, so what? That doesn't mean it's a net benefit to humanity. So yeah. Bitches. I just wrote a paragraph arguing against an 11-year-old's remark about gaming. Fuck, am I proud of myself.
On June 09 2009 01:18 foeffa wrote: He'll get a humongous burnout and depression at some point. Bet he will regret not having been a kid at that point.
Just like all of these wonder kids, I haven't heard of anyone who got a college degree uber fast actually contributing anything special after that. Most stops at some point and questions why they should have to work their ass of and when in hell they will be able to relax. The deal is that they are driven by their parents, as soon as they get disconnected from them they get like "Oh, so this is how you party!!!!".
I am sure that the average person could graduate college by at least the age of 15 if the parents just raised them correctly, but the deal is that there are other things in life than just getting a college degree...
I completely agree. When I first saw this news and heard the interview with his mom. She seemed so happy and she said she was, "So proud." and that, "This day has finally come." LOL lady how old is he? 11? Clearly, she hasn't been "waiting" since his entrance to college; clearly, she has been "waiting" to be "proud" since he was born, or maybe even before that.
I don't like to think that I'm making fun of her or the kid. I just think it's ridiculous the way this is set up. If you listen to the kid talk, his tone sounds so superficial. His words seem memorized. I'm sure people have asked him similar questions before and maybe that's why it seems his answers are so well rehearsed, but the fact that he can think about "helping humanity" and judging what is a "waste of time" just makes me think that he is merely saying what his mom or dad has undoubtedly told him time and time again.
In addition, I keep thinking about what an abnormal life, but more importantly, a backwards life he has had so far. Because he has enrolled into college at such a young age and spends so much time with martial arts and piano and whatever else, he probably didn't have time for friends. How many kids his age does he know and interact with everyday? Does he play around with his peers? share stories and experiences? I seriously don't think college frat guys are down to smoke with this kid. Joking aside, I believe having a healthy social life and learning to share information and critique each other is essential to what he actually plans to do later in life. You can't do everything on your own. Projects are done by many researchers cooperating together, often on an international level.
I just feel this shit is so fucked up. And the way it's projected on tv, like it's a "good" thing.
Honestly, I would be very surprised if I would ever hear about him again.
Oh ya, gl on trying to get into the 2016 Olympics kid.
On June 09 2009 03:20 SirKibbleX wrote: Don't worry guys, he'll probably kill himself by the time he's 30 because most prodigies don't know how to find joy in life :D
What are you basing this on exactly? Sounds like you made it up on the spot lol.
Probably doesn't have friends to play games with imo. edit: What 11 year is going to want to play with him anyway. They probably won't even understand his vocabulary, not to mention that he can kick their ass. Nope, no friends....
So...I looked into it a bit and he's not as great as you all make him out to be.
He graduated from East Los Angeles Community College which is essentially equivalent to graduating from high school. Don't get me wrong, he's still a pretty smart kid but in now way can you compare him to to the 'real' prodigies of the past who graduated at a young age from the major science universities of cal-tech/mit or what not.
I dunno, maybe now he can go learn in a real university now?
On June 09 2009 03:26 ssenwen wrote: So...I looked into it a bit and he's not as great as you all make him out to be.
He graduated from East Los Angeles Community College which is essentially equivalent to graduating from high school. Don't get me wrong, he's still a pretty smart kid but in now way can you compare him to to the 'real' prodigies of the past who graduated at a young age from the major science universities of cal-tech/mit or what not.
I dunno, maybe now he can go learn in a real university now?
In the interview I saw, that was his plan. He planned to take 6 months off while applying to Harvard, Princeton, and such.
Oh ya, the little prick also said he, "Likes to bring other people to his level."
This kid doesn't yet understand that everything is actually a waste of time. I'm about to start a rambling rooted in literary theory, one of my very own personal waste, but the one that I study. Value is just an opinion, granted, it is frequently shared by many, but the fact remains that nothing has any inherent worth- only what humanity/people/person's ascribe to it. I won't get into whether something is inherently valued, even if this is the case, a human being has to perceive this and declare what this objective value is for the value to be knowable, in the sense of epistemology. A piece of art could be 5$ now, and worth 5 million in the future. And the something that's worth 10$ right now could be something that a person values as priceless (take your pick : hookers, starcraft, great blow. All things that could be had for 10$)
But it's all a waste of time because it will eventually not exist, and at that point in time, the only value it could hold is within the flawed memory of anyone who perceived it or experienced it. But then, people die, and usually far before what they valued vanishes. So once everyone is gone (nukes, plagues, lack of water, overcrowding, robot sex slaves, a vengeful imaginary being, take your pick, it will happen someday) there will be no one to value anything.
Here's how by playing video games, the 11 y.o. genius could contribute to humanity: By playing video games and engaging in other seemingly useless activities that his peers like to partake in, he will grow up accustomed to people and will be well-adjusted to typical social life. Thus, he will eventually be able to find a mate, de-virginize himself, and pass on his wonderful genes for the benefit of all human kind.
Seriously though, 'grats to this kid for accomplishing so much while so young, I look forward to reading about him.
Most child geniuses end up no smarter than other people (well, other people of above average intelligence) they just peak intellectually sooner. But as children they are put on pedestals and it becomes very hard for them to cope with the reality that they aren't special when every other kid catches up to them.
On June 09 2009 00:59 dubRa wrote: First: only 11 Second: mind controlled by parents
Well I'm not going to hold his age against him, except that I have to agree that at that age he probably is just regurgitating everything his parents are telling him.
On June 09 2009 03:37 Nevuk wrote: This kid doesn't yet understand that everything is actually a waste of time. I'm about to start a rambling rooted in literary theory, one of my very own personal waste, but the one that I study. Value is just an opinion, granted, it is frequently shared by many, but the fact remains that nothing has any inherent worth- only what humanity/people/person's ascribe to it. I won't get into whether something is inherently valued, even if this is the case, a human being has to perceive this and declare what this objective value is for the value to be knowable, in the sense of epistemology. A piece of art could be 5$ now, and worth 5 million in the future. And the something that's worth 10$ right now could be something that a person values as priceless (take your pick : hookers, starcraft, great blow. All things that could be had for 10$)
But it's all a waste of time because it will eventually not exist, and at that point in time, the only value it could hold is within the flawed memory of anyone who perceived it or experienced it. But then, people die, and usually far before what they valued vanishes. So once everyone is gone (nukes, plagues, lack of water, overcrowding, robot sex slaves, a vengeful imaginary being, take your pick, it will happen someday) there will be no one to value anything.
How do you get up in the morning? Or do you just realize that this emo bullshit is only relevant in the philosophical world of the ivory tower.
I'm kind of disappointed that this guy is trying for something impossible (helping humanity and curing cancer in this case) instead of trying for something extremely difficult, but still possible, such as quantum physics.
There are a lot of unsolved problems in physics that really need more bright people working on them.
On June 09 2009 03:37 Nevuk wrote: This kid doesn't yet understand that everything is actually a waste of time. I'm about to start a rambling rooted in literary theory, one of my very own personal waste, but the one that I study. Value is just an opinion, granted, it is frequently shared by many, but the fact remains that nothing has any inherent worth- only what humanity/people/person's ascribe to it. I won't get into whether something is inherently valued, even if this is the case, a human being has to perceive this and declare what this objective value is for the value to be knowable, in the sense of epistemology. A piece of art could be 5$ now, and worth 5 million in the future. And the something that's worth 10$ right now could be something that a person values as priceless (take your pick : hookers, starcraft, great blow. All things that could be had for 10$)
But it's all a waste of time because it will eventually not exist, and at that point in time, the only value it could hold is within the flawed memory of anyone who perceived it or experienced it. But then, people die, and usually far before what they valued vanishes. So once everyone is gone (nukes, plagues, lack of water, overcrowding, robot sex slaves, a vengeful imaginary being, take your pick, it will happen someday) there will be no one to value anything.
How do you get up in the morning? Or do you just realize that this emo bullshit is only relevant in the philosophical world of the ivory tower.
I don't get this post. What are you saying? Especially with the question.
Perceived value is not only relevant outside of philosophical discussions, it's a blatantly obvious reply to the kid's statement about video games. Irrelevant how? Kid says video games don't have value for humanity and, in response, the notion of value is questioned. But beyond this thread, the idea of perceived value as the only value is incredibly important for the market/economy/business, for social issues (cultural disputes, etc) and even for mental health (self-esteem issues, etc).
And I don't know what you consider emo bullshit but going from the most popular meaning of emo, I see none of it here.
He's 11. The product of his work-a-holic parents, kids gifted and he should choose wherever he wants to place it if its martial arts and astrophysics so be it. Remember, hes 11, a lot of the shit hes producing out of his mouth is regurgitated from his parents. Personally I think we could be more productive, but I don't give a shit about you or humanity so I'm just going to play games in my free time until I want to do something else besides.
On June 09 2009 04:35 armed_ wrote: Graduating from college suddenly makes an 11-year-old's opinion on the purpose of life and the ultimate worth of one's actions meaningful now?
Yeah, because people care what geniuses think since they're smarter than us.
Why are u guys getting so aroused by a comment of an 11 year-old? -.-||
i'm just gonna quote SDM on this 1 "If you're gonna talk shit, you'd better make sure you're the best!"
only things is, i doubt he has any idea what he's talking about anyways,for the better of humanity? Waste of humanity? what does an 11 year old know about humanity lol...
This kid is just another theme park attraction, unless he really did succeed in the future, now we should all just take the ride then forget about it...
it's a waste of time when you are doing it at an age where you are supposed to be developing your minds and shaping who you will be later in life when you DON'T (not saying all adults don't go to school but you know, settling in with a family and whatnot) have as much of an opportunity to recieve an education and learn your morals and whatnot. That alone doesn't make it a waste of time though - it's a "waste of time" when, like many can relate here, wake up and go to sleep late playing the god damn game (that kinda took away my childhood, not that i regret it YET since im still in college but I can see that I could've been reading books or doing something productive as im sure, once again, many feel) to the point where we have to set a quota like "i'll play 5 games today, then i'll stop no matter what" then you come to find that 3 out of 5 games that you've played, you were either cheesed or you end up using an excuse to yourself and be prepared if anyone in your family asked why you passed the limit of 5 games by saying "i needed to warm up first" then it just becomes disaster in the household. that's my experience.. at least.. and now i kinda regret playing so much, but then again.. i don't regret it as if i have, lets say, smoked weed the whole time.. people dont understand the complexity, entertainment and unbelievable talent it takes to be good at starcraft.. that's what hurts the most - when people say it's JUST another game right to your face when you probably (adding up all the time we played starcraft in our life) invested more than a whole year, or more for some, playing the genius game made by blizzard. i don't regret it as much, but i know it was my choice and sometimes i wish my parents could've kicked me harder to realize that it DID waste a lot of my childhood/teenage years, but im a normal kid now and it hasn't turned me into a freak either.
another cool thing about starcraft though is how it can relate to so many things in life. my dad gets scared about me using the GPS mounted to my window in my car.. and says "keep your eye on the road! it's hard to look back and fourth on the road and the GPS" and i just laugh inside my head because it reminds me of how i have to check my mineral count during games hahahaha ^_^, but i wouldn't dare mention that to him because he'd just probably look at me like im crazy. damn vietnamese dads lol
On June 09 2009 05:04 Mastermind wrote: the kid sounds like an idiot to me. It is clear he is good at retaining what he hears/reads, but It appears he is not very good at thinking.
On June 09 2009 05:04 Mastermind wrote: the kid sounds like an idiot to me. It is clear he is good at retaining what he hears/reads, but It appears he is not very good at thinking.
Jealousy o_O
agreed. we value what he really says because if you can find another 11 year old that wise and mature, THEN i'll retract my statement. i wish i had a brother like that =[
On June 09 2009 05:04 Mastermind wrote: the kid sounds like an idiot to me. It is clear he is good at retaining what he hears/reads, but It appears he is not very good at thinking.
Jealousy o_O
agreed. we value what he really says because if you can find another 11 year old that wise and mature, THEN i'll retract my statement. i wish i had a brother like that =[
He's intelligent, but it doesn't seem like he's wise or mature. I don't expect any 11 year old to be wise and mature though.
I hope he benefits humanity, I really do. I don't believe his blanket qualifications on the use of time are justifiable, but his goals are certainly admirable. Unfortunately, expertise in Astrophysics and Martial Arts might not do well in attacking some of the problems facing humanity today.
Video Games are a waste of time if your goals in life do not involve having fun.
The ultimate transience of humanity makes questioning the legitimacy of individual humans' goals an illegitimate pursuit.
On June 09 2009 03:37 Nevuk wrote: This kid doesn't yet understand that everything is actually a waste of time. I'm about to start a rambling rooted in literary theory, one of my very own personal waste, but the one that I study. Value is just an opinion, granted, it is frequently shared by many, but the fact remains that nothing has any inherent worth- only what humanity/people/person's ascribe to it. I won't get into whether something is inherently valued, even if this is the case, a human being has to perceive this and declare what this objective value is for the value to be knowable, in the sense of epistemology. A piece of art could be 5$ now, and worth 5 million in the future. And the something that's worth 10$ right now could be something that a person values as priceless (take your pick : hookers, starcraft, great blow. All things that could be had for 10$)
But it's all a waste of time because it will eventually not exist, and at that point in time, the only value it could hold is within the flawed memory of anyone who perceived it or experienced it. But then, people die, and usually far before what they valued vanishes. So once everyone is gone (nukes, plagues, lack of water, overcrowding, robot sex slaves, a vengeful imaginary being, take your pick, it will happen someday) there will be no one to value anything.
How do you get up in the morning? Or do you just realize that this emo bullshit is only relevant in the philosophical world of the ivory tower.
I don't get up in the mornings. I'm a night person. Although, I don't actually think any of this is a bad thing, it doesn't bother me at all. The essential point of what I posted is that the only value is whatever you assign to something. Not really sure how that's emo...
Well, props to him for being born with the proper genetics to be as smart as he is. Other then that he has no right to judge what other people do.
If your passion is to play games as a recreation so be it. If your more of an outdoors type of person then that's your thing. He's doing martial arts and trying to do scuba-diving as somebody else mentioned, that's also recreation activity like gaming.
No matter how much his parents are looking out for him, trying for him to get best education at what not, at that young of an age, the kid should be playing with other kids and interacting. Developing his social skills, knowing himself and experiencing the world. The only thing I see what his parents have done is put massive amount of pressure on the kid to produce results at an early age, trying to make him grow up too fast while skipping the most important development aspects of life..
I wish the kid good luck in his future... Props to him if he does something for humanity, but I see him going crazy due to all the pressure way before he does any good.
On June 09 2009 05:04 Mastermind wrote: the kid sounds like an idiot to me. It is clear he is good at retaining what he hears/reads, but It appears he is not very good at thinking.
Jealousy o_O
agreed. we value what he really says because if you can find another 11 year old that wise and mature, THEN i'll retract my statement. i wish i had a brother like that =[
Actually the kid isn't wise and mature at all.
Education =/= Wise and Mature... nor does it equal worldly intelligence.
In fact I'd be more liable to believe that the kid still has absolutely no idea how the world works because... HES ELEVEN
Geniuses like him or whatever all get slapped in the face when they hit the working world because all their knowledge is useless in the face of greedy exploiting people.
On June 09 2009 03:37 Nevuk wrote: This kid doesn't yet understand that everything is actually a waste of time. I'm about to start a rambling rooted in literary theory, one of my very own personal waste, but the one that I study. Value is just an opinion, granted, it is frequently shared by many, but the fact remains that nothing has any inherent worth- only what humanity/people/person's ascribe to it. I won't get into whether something is inherently valued, even if this is the case, a human being has to perceive this and declare what this objective value is for the value to be knowable, in the sense of epistemology. A piece of art could be 5$ now, and worth 5 million in the future. And the something that's worth 10$ right now could be something that a person values as priceless (take your pick : hookers, starcraft, great blow. All things that could be had for 10$)
But it's all a waste of time because it will eventually not exist, and at that point in time, the only value it could hold is within the flawed memory of anyone who perceived it or experienced it. But then, people die, and usually far before what they valued vanishes. So once everyone is gone (nukes, plagues, lack of water, overcrowding, robot sex slaves, a vengeful imaginary being, take your pick, it will happen someday) there will be no one to value anything.
How do you get up in the morning? Or do you just realize that this emo bullshit is only relevant in the philosophical world of the ivory tower.
I don't get this post. What are you saying? Especially with the question.
Perceived value is not only relevant outside of philosophical discussions, it's a blatantly obvious reply to the kid's statement about video games. Irrelevant how? Kid says video games don't have value for humanity and, in response, the notion of value is questioned. But beyond this thread, the idea of perceived value as the only value is incredibly important for the market/economy/business, for social issues (cultural disputes, etc) and even for mental health (self-esteem issues, etc).
And I don't know what you consider emo bullshit but going from the most popular meaning of emo, I see none of it here.
Thank you. I think he assumed that I was using this theorem to argue for nihilism, that nothing has value (or meaning), which is what a lot of nihilists I know do argue. In my point I merely argued that this kid's idea of thinking something was valueless was problematic, as everything is valueless in some way. However, this is based upon the idea that value is subjective and relative - and that it does exist.
The statement the kid gave is a bit more absurd than usual, because he gives the reason as to why he thinks video games are a waste, as "they contribute nothing to humanity", which is a highly subjective, hollow statement - maybe wasting time is a good contribution to humanity. The future doesn't contribute anything to the present humanity, does that mean that the future is useless? And while this sounds like an absurd statement, this is a guy who is studying light from stars that is billions upon billions of years old, usually.
Why does this thread exist? Just because the kid is a genius and feels that games are a waste of time doesn't mean a thing. A lot of people do, for most of the people who play them they are.
Well if you just sit in front of the tv and play new school console games that are easy and hardly even interactive, you are wasting your time. But playing starcraft is something different, you have to have a competitive drive, you have to train to get better, you have to make your own strategies and play with your brain. I've always thought playing sc makes you smarter and increases your decision making speed.
Well, kudos to an 11 year old kid for being so clever at his young age.
I can only hope that others around him do not foster an inner-arrogance that carries forth with him in his coming years, because otherwise he will shut out all further cultural learning experiences (such as playing games, watching movies, tv, books, music, theatre, all kinds of art) and become a real douche-bag.
Nothing is more frustrating than an arrogant tard who thinks that their book-learned knowledge is the be-all and end-all of human experience. Contrarily, it's also frustrating to see so many people jump down ones' throat, proclaim "nerd", and become incredibly hostile from some ill-conceived, subconscious jealousy being directed towards...an 11 year old kid.
On June 09 2009 05:45 Chuiu wrote: Why does this thread exist? Just because the kid is a genius and feels that games are a waste of time doesn't mean a thing. A lot of people do, for most of the people who play them they are.
Of course playing video games is a waste of time... Its completely fucking useless but it is fun and can waste time easily. To get through school or get a job has nothing to do with video games though.. He must be working hard though to do college that young.
If gaming is a waste of time because it "doesn't help humanity in any way", then why engage yourself in martial arts? Because it's fun and satisfying? Thought so...
On June 09 2009 06:35 L wrote: I can't believe this thread got this big. Who the fuck cares what some kid thinks?
Yeah I agree. He is 11 years old; he is just some kid. I bet that the only reason he doesn't like playing video games is because his parents don't allow it and he just tries to justify that. He probably has never been allowed to play video games anyway. I mean come on, half Israeli and half Taiwanese? His parents must be slave-drivers. I wouldn't be surprised if he graduated when he was 6.
On June 09 2009 01:18 foeffa wrote: He'll get a humongous burnout and depression at some point. Bet he will regret not having been a kid at that point.
Just like all of these wonder kids, I haven't heard of anyone who got a college degree uber fast actually contributing anything special after that. Most stops at some point and questions why they should have to work their ass of and when in hell they will be able to relax. The deal is that they are driven by their parents, as soon as they get disconnected from them they get like "Oh, so this is how you party!!!!".
I am sure that the average person could graduate college by at least the age of 15 if the parents just raised them correctly, but the deal is that there are other things in life than just getting a college degree...
QFT
Kid probably spends 24/7 studying like a beast, needs to learn how to live a little. And as others have said, all recreational activities are a waste of time, why does he have such a beef with gaming?
Why would anyone listen to what an 11-year-old has to say about him or herself? I mean, that's pushing my point a little far, but people that age are so immature as to basically be delusional, no matter how much they know. No one should be concerned with this.
harhar, this kid said he does astrophysics as a passion but said gaming is a waste of time. So does he think its a waste of time to have a passion? Because gaming is my passion.
Also the gaming economy has been beneficial to him in some way no doubt.
On June 09 2009 00:55 konadora wrote: Yet like a twist out of a Hollywood action flick, Moshe combines his exceptional smarts with fearsome martial arts abilities: The preteen has won numerous national martial arts championships.
Up next for the tireless boy wonder: In the next six months to a year, he plans to devote himself to martial arts,
Not on the agenda: playing video games.
"I feel it's a waste of time playing video games because it's not helping humanity in any way," says Moshe, who wants to use his knowledge to change the world.
Video games are waste of time because it's not helping humanity in any way. But Martial Arts is not waste of time because it helps humanity in a lot of ways?
When he makes more money than NaDa, Moon, Grubby etc. then he can say that. But until that day: shut the fuck up kid, you might think you know it all but clearly you don't.
Sure he diden't get his childhood, but he will have all the time in the world (If he wants to) to do what he likes without having to do some homework. Oh and note that my footnote is actually quite relevant on this topic! I did not even see that.
Im sure its been said before, but im pretty sure the only reason he's saying this, is couse he's been forced to use his abilities to the fullest, and his parents or whoever is in controll of making him use his potential to its fullest, have probably said this and twisted it in a way he think he's can't deny without looking like a kid...which is what he is, but don't want to.
Or he's forcing himself into a lie. unwillingly accepting that being smart is everything.
This kid is missing out on life, not just not playing games, but highschool in general. making friends at school, kissing girls ect.. I feel sorry for him.
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." -B. Russell, a much smarter person than some stupid kid who's too caught up with helping humanity. Humanity doesn't want your help, we're too busy playing games.
Anyways, who cares what a kid thinks? If you're fine with what you're doing then who cares what some random kid who hasn't even gone through puberty thinks?
I agree with him. Games are for the most part a gigantic waste of time. Time for pleasure is a luxury that most of us take for granted, without realizing how well off we are and how badly many people our age live around the world.
LOL. he reminds me my niece in China... or my my sister in Japan... or my friends in Korea... or... or everyone in north asian countries.
This kid is just a smart monkey. His parents push him to work and get good marks so they can be proud blablabla shit. Comon, there are thousands kids like him back in China, Japan or Korea : young graduated +15454 APM super piano skill + learning some martial arts to protect themself against dumb asses like us.
I don't know if he is smart or not but if he really wanna save the world, he has to be genius. Oh wait, he said he isn't. Ok, he should play because he is wasting his time.
i dont think he is a genius. his parents just unlocked the human minds potential...
his story is possible with any kid. But watch, he will get sooooooooooooo fucked over with life. why? when ur a kid, u learn valuable life lessons from just playing and being silly. u learn from friends. imo thats helping humanity more than graduating from college at the age of 11. The 19-20 year olds have more experience for anything to back up their degrees, and this kid isnt.
His parents are just making him regurgitating things.... feel kinda srry for him.
and besides, happiness spreads really fucking fast. so fun = happiness = more happiness = better for humanity. Bet u didnt learn that from college eh?
Most video games were designed to entertain people during their leisure, to entertain them during their free time. How can you expect something designed to help you spend you leisure benefit humanity ?
On June 09 2009 11:50 Sonu wrote: i dont think he is a genius. his parents just unlocked the human minds potential...
his story is possible with any kid.
Wrong, the average 11 year old can't grasp a complex math problem, let alone get a degree in astrophysics. You realize that schools are aware of this and start subjects at the appropriate age. You didn't think they do this to cut you a break or something do you? Don't be silly, the kid is obviously a genius by most standards, his mind is extreeeeemely developed for his age.
But watch, he will get sooooooooooooo fucked over with life. why? when ur a kid, u learn valuable life lessons from just playing and being silly. u learn from friends.
This is simply not true, you don't learn any valuable life lessons from playing around randomly (not really after the age of 3 or so). The reality is that this kid would get incredibly bored with school if he had to attend regular school without skipping classes. About playing with friends: He has plenty of hobbies, stop making assumptions about his social life, I've seen 2 people in this thread mention that prodigies are prone to suicide, I don't know where you're all coming up with this, but simply because the kid studies a lot doesn't mean he has no social life, on the contrary, prodigies have above average social skills.
imo thats helping humanity more than graduating from college at the age of 11. The 19-20 year olds have more experience for anything to back up their degrees, and this kid isnt.
Yeah I'm pretty sure getting to level 80 in world of warcraft is practical experience that backs up your degree.
His parents are just making him regurgitating things.... feel kinda srry for him.
Prodigies do the things they do out of their own interest, you are grossly overestimating his parents' influence. Your parents teaching you their ideas and values is pretty normal by the way, he's not even in adolescence which is the phase in life where you start to rebel against your parents so what's the big deal about the statement.
Pffft big deal, I could do it if i didn't spend 90% of my time on SC. But yea, if humanity didn't do anything but science, technology would be so advanced.
...Seriously SC ruined my academics and part of my social life.
But Frits, if I don't dismiss him as a nerd who's being forced to learn and will never find happiness in life because he doesn't conform to the standard, how will I be able to maintain my blind feeling of superiority over all people who have different values than me? :'<
Wrong, the average 11 year old can't grasp a complex math problem, let alone get a degree in astrophysics. You realize that schools are aware of this and start subjects at the appropriate age. You didn't think they do this to cut you a break or something do you? Don't be silly, the kid is obviously a genius by most standards, his mind is extreeeeemely developed for his age.
The difference is between understanding math and learning math. Many kids in China are just good learners. They do many exercices and repeat it. I know because I've taught some kids there. In Europe, especially in France, Math has to be understood. This is a big difference. So I guess it's possible for every kids, or almost every kids, to just learn math like a poem but much harder to understand it.
This is simply not true, you don't learn any valuable life lessons from playing around randomly. The reality is that this kid would get incredibly bored with school if he had to attend regular school without skipping classes. About playing with friends: he has plenty of hobbies, stop making clueless assumptions about his social life, I've seen 2 people in this thread mention that prodigies are prone to suicide. I don't know where you're coming up with this, simply because the kid studies a lot doesn't mean he has no social life, on the contrary, prodigies have above average social skills.
agreed on suicide point but I believe we learn from playing randomly. Actually, no, we learn when we analyze. First, I believe playing is an act of creation and even if not, when we play, we wonder why or what or which or when etc. These questions lead us to knowledge. And sometimes, valuable knowledge. Playing is also helping us to communicate, to socialize.
This kid is honestly nothing special. The academic rigour of community college classes is barely more than junior high - he's gifted, sure, but no genius. I'm sure if people were to set aside all social interaction to pursue one or two things they could largely achieve similar degrees of success.
Sidis, on the other hand, is a true prodigy - one that actually bears examination, unlike this poor soul.
I wish him more fortune in life. Even though his opinions may not be welcomed here on TL i hope he will grow up and accomplish great things to mankind.
On June 09 2009 11:50 Sonu wrote: i dont think he is a genius. his parents just unlocked the human minds potential...
his story is possible with any kid.
Wrong, the average 11 year old can't grasp a complex math problem, let alone get a degree in astrophysics. You realize that schools are aware of this and start subjects at the appropriate age. You didn't think they do this to cut you a break or something do you? Don't be silly, the kid is obviously a genius by most standards, his mind is extreeeeemely developed for his age.
But watch, he will get sooooooooooooo fucked over with life. why? when ur a kid, u learn valuable life lessons from just playing and being silly. u learn from friends.
This is simply not true, you don't learn any valuable life lessons from playing around randomly (not really after the age of 3 or so). The reality is that this kid would get incredibly bored with school if he had to attend regular school without skipping classes. About playing with friends: He has plenty of hobbies, stop making assumptions about his social life, I've seen 2 people in this thread mention that prodigies are prone to suicide, I don't know where you're all coming up with this, but simply because the kid studies a lot doesn't mean he has no social life, on the contrary, prodigies have above average social skills.
imo thats helping humanity more than graduating from college at the age of 11. The 19-20 year olds have more experience for anything to back up their degrees, and this kid isnt.
Yeah I'm pretty sure getting to level 80 in world of warcraft is practical experience that backs up your degree.
His parents are just making him regurgitating things.... feel kinda srry for him.
Prodigies do the things they do out of their own interest, you are grossly overestimating his parents' influence. Your parents teaching you their ideas and values is pretty normal by the way, he's not even in adolescence which is the phase in life where you start to rebel against your parents so what's the big deal about the statement.
You are making as many baseless assumptions as the people you are refuting.
Wrong, the average 11 year old can't grasp a complex math problem, let alone get a degree in astrophysics. You realize that schools are aware of this and start subjects at the appropriate age. You didn't think they do this to cut you a break or something do you? Don't be silly, the kid is obviously a genius by most standards, his mind is extreeeeemely developed for his age.
The difference is between understanding math and learning math. Many kids in China are just good learners. They do many exercices and repeat it. I know because I've taught some kids there. In Europe, especially in France, Math has to be understood. This is a big difference. So I guess it's possible for every kids, or almost every kids, to just learn math like a poem but much harder to understand it.
From a developmental perspective kids simply can't grasp complex problems until around the age 12, this has been reinforced by countless of studies. I'm not sure what you're disputing here, are you suggesting that this kid does not grasp the things he learned? While I agree that there are people who are incredibly good at remembering things through cognitive strategies, that's definately not the case here. Look at the article, this kid tutored people in college.
And kids want to know how things work, this starts at a young age, if you simply make kids study material without them being able to grasp it, they would quickly lose interest, this is not a stimulating environment at all for children.
This is simply not true, you don't learn any valuable life lessons from playing around randomly. The reality is that this kid would get incredibly bored with school if he had to attend regular school without skipping classes. About playing with friends: he has plenty of hobbies, stop making clueless assumptions about his social life, I've seen 2 people in this thread mention that prodigies are prone to suicide. I don't know where you're coming up with this, simply because the kid studies a lot doesn't mean he has no social life, on the contrary, prodigies have above average social skills.
agreed on suicide point but I believe we learn from playing randomly. Actually, no, we learn when we analyze. First, I believe playing is an act of creation and even if not, when we play, we wonder why or what or which or when etc. These questions lead us to knowledge. And sometimes, valuable knowledge. Playing is also helping us to communicate, to socialize.
There are many types of learning, habituation, perceptual, statistical, classical conditioning, instrumental conditioning and observational learning, none of these state the requirement of 'playing around randomly'. A child needs a stimulating environment, imagine right now having to sit through the 3rd grade in elementary, you would be bored.
And I know that schools can decrease intrinsic motivation on things, I wrote an article and held a speech on it a few months ago myself. It's irrelevant here. This kid has received a lot of attention while growing up, his environment is basically talored to his needs. This is standard procedure with prodegies.
On June 09 2009 11:50 Sonu wrote: i dont think he is a genius. his parents just unlocked the human minds potential...
his story is possible with any kid.
Wrong, the average 11 year old can't grasp a complex math problem, let alone get a degree in astrophysics. You realize that schools are aware of this and start subjects at the appropriate age. You didn't think they do this to cut you a break or something do you? Don't be silly, the kid is obviously a genius by most standards, his mind is extreeeeemely developed for his age.
But watch, he will get sooooooooooooo fucked over with life. why? when ur a kid, u learn valuable life lessons from just playing and being silly. u learn from friends.
This is simply not true, you don't learn any valuable life lessons from playing around randomly (not really after the age of 3 or so). The reality is that this kid would get incredibly bored with school if he had to attend regular school without skipping classes. About playing with friends: He has plenty of hobbies, stop making assumptions about his social life, I've seen 2 people in this thread mention that prodigies are prone to suicide, I don't know where you're all coming up with this, but simply because the kid studies a lot doesn't mean he has no social life, on the contrary, prodigies have above average social skills.
imo thats helping humanity more than graduating from college at the age of 11. The 19-20 year olds have more experience for anything to back up their degrees, and this kid isnt.
Yeah I'm pretty sure getting to level 80 in world of warcraft is practical experience that backs up your degree.
His parents are just making him regurgitating things.... feel kinda srry for him.
Prodigies do the things they do out of their own interest, you are grossly overestimating his parents' influence. Your parents teaching you their ideas and values is pretty normal by the way, he's not even in adolescence which is the phase in life where you start to rebel against your parents so what's the big deal about the statement.
You are making as many baseless assumptions as the people you are refuting.
lol @ the irony of that statement
I'm actually looking and checking most of the things I mention here up in a textbook on child psychology which I read 2 months ago (Siegel, Deloache, Eisenberg, 2006). Feel free to point out the baseless assumptions though.
On June 09 2009 12:45 Muirhead wrote: Lol there is a difference between understanding community college math and being able to solve real math problems at Olympiad or research level.
Martial Arts is a more valuable activity than Gaming. It encourages healthy living, teaches mental balance and focus, and creates strength, dexterity, and endurance. Gaming contributes to a sedentary lifestyle
On June 09 2009 12:26 Last Romantic wrote: This kid is honestly nothing special. The academic rigour of community college classes is barely more than junior high - he's gifted, sure, but no genius. I'm sure if people were to set aside all social interaction to pursue one or two things they could largely achieve similar degrees of success.
Sidis, on the other hand, is a true prodigy - one that actually bears examination, unlike this poor soul.
Like I mentioned before, this is not true at all. This kid is special by all norms in developmental psychology. Define the difference between gifted and genius. You're simply relativating something by picking an even more extreme example. If someone differs 5 standard deviations from the norm, the statistical significance of that does not simply fade by the existence of someone who differs 10 sd's from the norm.
If you were to set aside all social interaction you would still get nowhere close to what this kid achieved because the mind of a normal child would simply not be able to comprehend the problems with it's underdeveloped brain. It's not a matter of investing time, that's not how intelligence develops.
On June 09 2009 13:06 GeneralStan wrote: Martial Arts is a more valuable activity than Gaming. It encourages healthy living, teaches mental balance and focus, and creates strength, dexterity, and endurance. Gaming contributes to a sedentary lifestyle
On June 09 2009 13:04 iPF[Div] wrote: If he's such a genius why the fuck did he go to community college.
Ahaha QFT.
Seriously though, he started college at age 8....I mean i'm sure the course material was pretty advanced and I don't doubt he is gifted, but honestly you could shove a lot of people into similar situations and they would come out ok. If I went to community college at age 14 or whatever and had things specifically laid out for me (as I'm sure this kid had), I doubt I would do too bad.
On June 09 2009 13:06 GeneralStan wrote: Martial Arts is a more valuable activity than Gaming. It encourages healthy living, teaches mental balance and focus, and creates strength, dexterity, and endurance. Gaming contributes to a sedentary lifestyle
Unless you're teaching martial arts and encouraging all of those principles to people (which doesn't seem to be the case for him), then I don't see how it could be considered beneficial to humanity while games aren't.
His argument isn't that martial arts are more valuable than games, it's that games are a waste of time because it doesn't benefit humanity...which could be said about a lot of things he does.
On June 09 2009 01:24 Klockan3 wrote: I am sure that the average person could graduate college by at least the age of 15 if the parents just raised them correctly, but the deal is that there are other things in life than just getting a college degree...
lol
I think he maybe right. The younger you are, the more things you are able to learn fast because your brain is not fully developped. If you began school at 3-4 years old and continued every year for 300/365 days (instead of like 180/365 like it is now) you would probably finish college at 15-16. Yes you basically sacrifice your childhood, but in theory it would be possible for almost everyone if they are able to endure that schedule for 12 years.
On June 09 2009 13:36 tomatriedes wrote: Mix of Jewish and Asian genes and upbringing? Too easy. It would be difficult not to be a genius.
god, if he was a girl and Swedish+Asian+Jewish I'l totally change my comments... actually, to be Swedish girl is enough for me to change my comments :p
On June 09 2009 12:26 Last Romantic wrote: This kid is honestly nothing special. The academic rigour of community college classes is barely more than junior high - he's gifted, sure, but no genius. I'm sure if people were to set aside all social interaction to pursue one or two things they could largely achieve similar degrees of success.
Sidis, on the other hand, is a true prodigy - one that actually bears examination, unlike this poor soul.
Like I mentioned before, this is not true at all. This kid is special by all norms in developmental psychology. Define the difference between gifted and genius. You're simply relativating something by picking an even more extreme example. If someone differs 5 standard deviations from the norm, the statistical significance of that does not simply fade by the existence of someone who differs 10 sd's from the norm.
If you were to set aside all social interaction you would still get nowhere close to what this kid achieved because the mind of a normal child would simply not be able to comprehend the problems with it's underdeveloped brain. It's not a matter of investing time, that's not how intelligence develops.
well i guess he didnt go to a normal school before college, so whats special is the environment his parents crafted , plus his ability to be a tool.
'I feel it's a waste of time playing video games because it's not helping humanity in any way."
Humanity isn't worth helping.
That's like, your opinion man.
I happen to like humanity and think they're worth helping. I just can never tell if I'm helping or not, so I gave up trying
The only way to truly save humanity and ensure its survival for a thousand generations to come would be to cut our numbers to x% and bring all technology usage down to the bare minimum, while scientists refine the efficiency of machines to a knife-edge in which resources are barely needed to run them.
They say evolution will be the end of a species, that all the genetic material has been bred to the point it cannot mutate any further. Before the human race CAN get there, we'll end up stripping our home planet of its resources.
We'll break down into war over
-Water -Food -Metals -Oil (this already happening) -Arable land
It's only natural war will happen, and it will do the job of cutting human population down. These last remaining survivors will be reset to somewhere along the medieval ages, we'll be fighting like in the Planet of the Apes, but in a concrete jungle.
And I foresee it happening in as little as 50 years, possibly 30.
Uhm, why would anyone argue with an 11 year old about life? He might have well developed brain functions but he's still 11 years old. He's having fun in his own way, why would you assault him for his opinions? It's not like he's lobbying to ban video games. Is this jealousy or what? I'd love to discuss philosophy with the 11 year old, but this is just a phrase you picked out of context from an interview, it's not good for any discussion except this populist snickering that everyone so loves.
On June 09 2009 12:26 Last Romantic wrote: This kid is honestly nothing special. The academic rigour of community college classes is barely more than junior high - he's gifted, sure, but no genius. I'm sure if people were to set aside all social interaction to pursue one or two things they could largely achieve similar degrees of success.
Sidis, on the other hand, is a true prodigy - one that actually bears examination, unlike this poor soul.
Like I mentioned before, this is not true at all. This kid is special by all norms in developmental psychology. Define the difference between gifted and genius. You're simply relativating something by picking an even more extreme example. If someone differs 5 standard deviations from the norm, the statistical significance of that does not simply fade by the existence of someone who differs 10 sd's from the norm.
If you were to set aside all social interaction you would still get nowhere close to what this kid achieved because the mind of a normal child would simply not be able to comprehend the problems with it's underdeveloped brain. It's not a matter of investing time, that's not how intelligence develops.
You truly think community college material can't be done by the average 'gifted' middle school student? I interspersed the occasional supplementary college course with my other schoolwork in elementary school; I don't consider myself genius-level. I think quite a large number of people could manage it. Their parents just choose not to let them suffer like that.
But yeah, I agree that it just revolves around your definition of 'genius' and 'gifted'. I am very stingy with calling people geniuses; I don't take the mensa definition since 135IQ or whatever is too lax. Something like 160-170 seems like a decent benchmark.
On June 09 2009 12:26 Last Romantic wrote: This kid is honestly nothing special. The academic rigour of community college classes is barely more than junior high - he's gifted, sure, but no genius. I'm sure if people were to set aside all social interaction to pursue one or two things they could largely achieve similar degrees of success.
Sidis, on the other hand, is a true prodigy - one that actually bears examination, unlike this poor soul.
Like I mentioned before, this is not true at all. This kid is special by all norms in developmental psychology. Define the difference between gifted and genius. You're simply relativating something by picking an even more extreme example. If someone differs 5 standard deviations from the norm, the statistical significance of that does not simply fade by the existence of someone who differs 10 sd's from the norm.
If you were to set aside all social interaction you would still get nowhere close to what this kid achieved because the mind of a normal child would simply not be able to comprehend the problems with it's underdeveloped brain. It's not a matter of investing time, that's not how intelligence develops.
You truly think community college material can't be done by the average 'gifted' middle school student? I interspersed the occasional supplementary college course with my other schoolwork in elementary school; I don't consider myself genius-level. I think quite a large number of people could manage it. Their parents just choose not to let them suffer like that.
But yeah, I agree that it just revolves around your definition of 'genius' and 'gifted'. I am very stingy with calling people geniuses; I don't take the mensa definition since 135IQ or whatever is too lax. Something like 160-170 seems like a decent benchmark.
CC is a joke, but it's not something that your average gifted student could do at that age. Beyond the whole level of intelligence needed to succeed, you've still got to have the discipline to get your shit done, since it's not like ms or hs with teachers pushing you every two seconds. I'd agree that I don't think it necessarily makes him a genius, but I think it's foolsh to say that any average gifted stdent could pull it off
More people could pull it off than you think. Keep in mind that as he's doing his CC work, he's probably being pushed to do it by his parents, since he likely lives at home. With his parents directing his study and homework time, it wouldn't be any stretch of the imagination to believe that it's possible for a talented eleven year old, especially if he doesn't play video games or much else.
'I feel it's a waste of time playing video games because it's not helping humanity in any way."
Humanity isn't worth helping.
That's like, your opinion man.
I happen to like humanity and think they're worth helping. I just can never tell if I'm helping or not, so I gave up trying
The only way to truly save humanity and ensure its survival for a thousand generations to come would be to cut our numbers to x% and bring all technology usage down to the bare minimum, while scientists refine the efficiency of machines to a knife-edge in which resources are barely needed to run them.
They say evolution will be the end of a species, that all the genetic material has been bred to the point it cannot mutate any further. Before the human race CAN get there, we'll end up stripping our home planet of its resources.
We'll break down into war over
-Water -Food -Metals -Oil (this already happening) -Arable land
It's only natural war will happen, and it will do the job of cutting human population down. These last remaining survivors will be reset to somewhere along the medieval ages, we'll be fighting like in the Planet of the Apes, but in a concrete jungle.
And I foresee it happening in as little as 50 years, possibly 30.
On June 09 2009 22:51 Empyrean wrote: More people could pull it off than you think. Keep in mind that as he's doing his CC work, he's probably being pushed to do it by his parents, since he likely lives at home. With his parents directing his study and homework time, it wouldn't be any stretch of the imagination to believe that it's possible for a talented eleven year old, especially if he doesn't play video games or much else.
What I'd like to see is a sample of his writing.
isnt it clear already what kind of things he would write? Just boring im a perfect tool stuff
The kid hasn't done anything that isn't within the grasp of the majority of kids a few years older than him. Would you consider an 11 year who hit puberty earlier than his peers and dominated in his little league sports teams the next MJ? That's why this child genius shit is so retarded and damaging for the kids growth.
He loses out on the social development every other kid takes part in, then everyone catches up to him intellectually and he's actually behind other kids in every other facet of life besides academia. Plus he's going to fucking suck at video games. I would never put my child through something like this.
martial arts is a waste of time... who are u helping out?
it's not even like he could help defend ppl... most ppl on TL could prolly just push him and he would die
also he's in some seriously denial if he think he's not a genius... usually geniuses like him get fukin crazy later on, can't fit into society finds all ppl around him incompetent and start talking to pigeons
EDIT: i realized he just dissed all the progamers in this world... now how is that a way of helping out the humanity... he just made lot of ppl feel bad... he should be grounded IMO
It's just a kid's opinion. No need to truly get worked up about. Some kids have different interests, and there's no need to criticize them about it. After all, it's not like his words are the absolute truth in the entire planet. Let him believe what he wants to believe in and move on.
Wrong, the average 11 year old can't grasp a complex math problem, let alone get a degree in astrophysics. You realize that schools are aware of this and start subjects at the appropriate age. You didn't think they do this to cut you a break or something do you? Don't be silly, the kid is obviously a genius by most standards, his mind is extreeeeemely developed for his age.
The difference is between understanding math and learning math. Many kids in China are just good learners. They do many exercices and repeat it. I know because I've taught some kids there. In Europe, especially in France, Math has to be understood. This is a big difference. So I guess it's possible for every kids, or almost every kids, to just learn math like a poem but much harder to understand it.
From a developmental perspective kids simply can't grasp complex problems until around the age 12, this has been reinforced by countless of studies. I'm not sure what you're disputing here, are you suggesting that this kid does not grasp the things he learned? While I agree that there are people who are incredibly good at remembering things through cognitive strategies, that's definately not the case here. Look at the article, this kid tutored people in college.
You can tutor things without understanding it, I would say that at least 99% of the college students do not understand the maths they are working with and instead are mainly working with formulas and not a small amount of the tutors do so too. I even taught my TA in linear algebra a thing that he had missunderstood and linear algebra is one of the easiest things to understand.
On June 09 2009 12:43 Frits wrote: And kids want to know how things work, this starts at a young age, if you simply make kids study material without them being able to grasp it, they would quickly lose interest, this is not a stimulating environment at all for children.
Um, if they are driven by their parent's they wouldn't lose interest. See it like this, if he never went to daycare and instead spent all of his time at home allowing his parents to teach him from the start without spoiling his minds with things such as games or basic toys he wouldn't have anything to compare it to so he would not lose interest.
Look at his room even, he just got a piano, books and all of his prizes there...
On June 09 2009 12:43 Frits wrote: This kid has received a lot of attention while growing up, his environment is basically talored to his needs. This is standard procedure with prodegies.
No it isn't, I am for every intent and purpose gifted. But my parents never cared about me, I got put in a normal school, I never did my homework and such from the start but I was still ahead of the classmates. Anyway, I am still far ahead of all of my classmates in terms of understanding and how fast I learn even though I am on my last year as an undergrad and I still do not study at my free time and I haven't done a problem set in maths or so since I was 10 years old. How involved the parents are does a huge amount, if they don't do anything at all even the smartest person will not be found till he is something like 12-15 and even then he wont be seen as anything special since his peers who are driven by their parents to work hard are still outscoring him.
Anyhow, I still think that it would be possible for the average 2 standard deviations kid to do calculus at the age of 10 as long as he was raised properly, most parents aren't that ambitious though and instead sends their kid to daycare, let them watch TV a lot etc instead of teaching the kid themselves. And even though 2 sd is seen as a "genius" I would hardly call a 2 sd person that, your psychology book however does. But I dunno, I tend to overestimate what people are capable of, myself I learned calculus when I was 15 by just reading straight through the books and then I didn't touch maths again till I started college, I never saw the deal with it. But people still whine a bit about it...
Anyhow, I would hardly say that something 1% of the kids can do would be all that remarkable, but I guess that most kids just don't get the chance so the figure of the amount of kids who graduates at really young ages is really low.
Of course though he might be uber smart, impossible to judge just with the information we got, I am just saying. Also, have any of the big scientists in history been child prodigies? Not to my knowledge at least, I think the deal is that you stunt something if you do not let their mind fly freely when they are young.
I'd rather be jealous of people 2SD on the hot or not scale than someone whose intelligence is at that level. Intelligence suffers from diminishing returns in terms of life outcome quickly, while warren harding shows the world just how useful good looks is. If one only combines moderate intelligence, okay background with very good looks, society is but a tool to be manipulated even without drawing on the works of consciousness.
Far better than the isolating features of "excessive intelligence" which often come at a loss of other mental functions leading all the way to aspergers and autism which makes the gain not worth it.
On June 10 2009 00:47 Klockan3 wrote: Also, have any of the big scientists in history been child prodigies? Not to my knowledge at least, I think the deal is that you stunt something if you do not let their mind fly freely when they are young.
For someone that gifted in math I dunno how you missed Gauss.
On June 10 2009 01:09 SWPIGWANG wrote: I'd rather be jealous of people 2SD on the hot or not scale than someone whose intelligence is at that level. Intelligence suffers from diminishing returns in terms of life outcome quickly, while warren harding shows the world just how useful good looks is. If one only combines moderate intelligence, okay background with very good looks, society is but a tool to be manipulated even without drawing on the works of consciousness.
Far better than the isolating features of "excessive intelligence" which often come at a loss of other mental functions leading all the way to aspergers and autism which makes the gain not worth it.
Agreed. Being at a nice 120-140 is probably the best.
By the way, I do not really understand why they are using that scale, at least to me a person with 140 IQ is way smarter than twice as smart as someone with 70, even though the only reason to translate the SD to that is to tell you that 140 actually is twice as smart as 70.
In other words I do not believe that intelligence really follow a bell curve, the only reason they use that is because a bell curve is usually a good approximation of anything you take.
On June 10 2009 00:47 Klockan3 wrote: Also, have any of the big scientists in history been child prodigies? Not to my knowledge at least, I think the deal is that you stunt something if you do not let their mind fly freely when they are young.
For someone that gifted in math I dunno how you missed Gauss.
Gauss did follow roughly a normal school curriculum and didn't start college till he was 15, and he is seen as one of the best mathematician in history. In terms of child prodigyness he is leagues behind the guy in this thread.
Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that everyone here mentions that they could perform similar feats if only they invested the time and effort? As if being smart (here: being able to grasp complex ideas at a younger age than others) is the only thing that matters. Let's assume that what some of you say is true (which goes against Piaget's and just about all the important child development theories, and the countless amounts of research), what the hell is so comforting about being a self proclaimed genius if you didn't do shit with it?
Even if you could perform feats similar the the ones this kid is capable of (which wouldn't make sense because kids enjoy learning, you're all assuming children are naturally lazy and all kids like playing video games), why don't you? The thing that seperates you isn't the time invested, because you never made a conscious choice to actually do so, it's the motivation to actually invest the time. Part of the reason prodigies have this motivation is that they enjoy learning things on a level they can grasp. Like I said before, imagine having to do simple adding problems when your mind can comprehend complex theories, you would be bored. Similarly, if you handle problems too complex for your mind, you get bored, because you cannot comprehend them, you simply are not physically developed enough.
@Klockan3, no, you're not a genius. Stop blaming your parents for your own shortcomings.
Note the difference between unremarkable self proclaimed genius and genius. And I never said that a genius has to be a child prodigy or that genius is necessarily connected with achievement, although it definately correlates.
My point about the time invested: You seem to take pride in being smart while not doing anything with it, why are you taking for granted that you could invest the time? Why are you denying this important part. You could say that someone who tries really hard could be a genius if he were smarter, what's the difference with motivation? How do you create intrinsic motivation?
And I never denied influence of environment, that's just you turning around the argument. You're denying the stages children progress through at certain age. I point this out and suddenly I'm denying the opposite? I think your logic is flawed here, since you're denying the antecedent.
On June 10 2009 01:20 Frits wrote: @Klockan3, no, you're not a genius. Stop blaming your parents for your own shortcomings.
Wut? So, now you are in denial? Just because I didn't graduate at the age of 11 I can't be smart? As I mentioned in an above post most of the greatest scientists were not graduating prematurely...
On June 10 2009 01:20 Frits wrote: what the hell is so comforting about being a self proclaimed genius if you didn't do shit with it?
So, it isn't worth anything if you aren't doing it when you are under aged?
Your logic is really strange, according to you the average kid can get their hands on maths book by the age of 3, it is just that most kids do not like said maths and ignores it and only a few gifted kids takes their time to learn it? I mean, if the parents aren't able to speak multiple languages or they don't do it with their kid the kid wont learn multiple languages, if the kid haven't gotten any experience with numbers he will never show any special affinity for maths etc.
If the parents aren't actively searching for it then it wont see the daylight.
Edit: But I guess that you are one of those 100% nature guys, who do not believe that the way someone was raised have any significant impact on who they become...
On June 10 2009 01:20 Frits wrote: My point about the time invested: You seem to take pride in being smart while not doing anything with it, why are you taking for granted that you could invest the time? Why are you denying this important part. You could say that someone who tries really hard could be a genius if he were smarter, what's the difference with motivation? How do you create intrinsic motivation?
I am doing something with it, I am taking twice the normal course load the the toughest college programme you can take here. Just because I don't spend any free time on it do not mean that I am not successful.
I am not self proclaimed, most says that I am, even the professors.
On June 10 2009 01:20 Frits wrote: And I never denied influence of environment, that's just you turning around the argument. You're denying the stages children progress through at certain age. I point this out and suddenly I'm denying the opposite? I think your logic is flawed here, since you're denying the antecedent.
No, you were saying that I weren't smart from what you had read, because I weren't as into learning as these "prodigies".
Anyway, the reason I said that you were in denial is because you instantly denied that I could be smart and started to build up this image of me as someone who didn't accomplish anything special just because I said that I never worked. Please, stop with the prejudice.
Ok, so I've been browsing around the ELAC website...even though this kid is technically a college graduate, if he really wants to have a successful career in astrophysics, I certainly hope he considers a degree at another university. Browsing through their math department shows that ODE's are the fourth highest level of math you can take. Some high schoolers are taking classes in ODE's :/...Independent study in any subject is cirtually guaranteed to be more useful at, say, a California state school.
Let's compare some course descriptions: Math 105 at East Los Angeles College:
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Mathematics 105 is a course in vector calculus that uses linear algebra. Topics to be covered include: iterated integrals and partial derivatives, optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions, the Implicit Function Theorem, cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, vector fields, divergence and curl, parameterized curves and surfaces, arc length and surface area, and Green's, Stokes's, and Gauss's Theorems.
No, you were saying that I weren't smart from what you had read, because I weren't as into learning as these "prodigies".
The word "I" is not plural.
English probably isn't his first language. Why don't you try writing coherent paragraphs in Swedish :/
That has nothing to do with his point. Klockan3, the self-appointed genius, is a bit too full of himself seeing as how he likes to blame external factors such as parents for his own shortcomings while giving no credit to other people who surpass his own accomplishments. 4iner was making a half-serious joke under the premise, "someone with such a high opinion of himself shouldn't be making grammatical mistakes or any other kind of mistake for the matter."
Anyway, I wouldn't take anything Klockan3 says seriously. He's your typical Internet forum "know-it-all" who views himself as the undisputed expert of all matters even when professional experts disagree. Klockan3 can craft whatever theories he wants, but he provides ZERO facts for his main argument. The only support/example is his own life, which is heavily skewed by his stupidly huge ego.
The common belief accepted by most psychologists today in the endless "Nature versus Nurture" debate is that both play a role. Or in the case of this thread, parents are a strong influence on a child's development and growth, but the child makes the final and ultimate decision on how far he/she wants to go in life. Internal factors such as the child's resilience and own personal motivation are just as crucial as his/her environment. Diminishing the child's accomplishments by saying that "anyone can do the same under the same circumstances" is wrong as shown throughout history.
There are two types of examples that show that parents are not the only defining factors: gifted children who combust because of demanding parents and gifted children who excel without the help/support of their parents.
Here are some examples. "Ruth Slezynska, who made her début in 1929 at the age of 4. In her autobiography she tells how her father made her practise 9 hours every day. He tolerated no mistakes and hit her at the least wrong note. At 15 she suffered a major breakdown that put an end to her career." (Source: La Scena Musicale Volume 6, Number 2)
Marie Curie - Born in a poor family and the youngest of five children, she was on the short end of the stick when it came to attention from her parents. She taught herself to read and ended up tutoring her older siblings in mathematics. I don't think I need to go on about her accomplishments later on in life since she's a relatively well-known figure. AND IM SURE HER LIFE WAS MUCH HARDER THAN YOURS KLOCKAN3 BUT SHE DIDN'T RESIGN HERSELF TO BLAMING HER LIFE ON HER PARENTS.
Here's another example. We don't have to look further than our own lives about the very subject this site is designed for.
Starcraft Progamers. There's numerous talks stating that Koreans are good at Starcraft simply because they practice 10+ hours a day. But the next question that arises is, "How many people here would do that?" It's one thing to say "Oh, I could be just as good as Jaedong if I played 12 hours a day." Then we follow it up with a bunch of excuses why we don't such as "I have better things to do in life."
But we're also overlooking the fact that most of us just can't do it rather than won't do it. I've gone on gaming binges where I've played games at a PC bang for 2 days straight. By the end of the second day, I'm just burnt out and sick of playing games... for a day or two anyway. However, I cannot imagine having to play Starcraft for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week until the end of time. And if I can't play a game for 12 hours a day, then there's no way in hell I'm going to diligently study for 12 hours a day regardless of how much my parents push.
By the way, my parents are hardcore Koreans who pushed me since an early age. I play the violin, piano, and saxophone. I scored a 1520 on the SAT (out of 1600) in my sophomore year. However, I haven't accomplished any feats that warrants the title genius because I simply didn't have the innate drive to push myself to the same degree that my parents did. I lacked the dedication.
Extreme dedication is a deviation from the norm as much as extreme intelligence thus both are equally important in the makings of a genius. And dedication is an innate trait or at the very least, a trait you choose or accept out of your own will not something your parents can beat into you as illustrated in the examples shown above.
Disclaimer I'm not downplaying the role of parents or the environment, I've read "Outliers," an excellent nonfiction book by Malcom Gladwell, which explores the impact of culture on success and talks about the whole nurture aspect in a way never imagined before.
On June 10 2009 03:33 Empyrean wrote: Ok, so I've been browsing around the ELAC website...even though this kid is technically a college graduate, if he really wants to have a successful career in astrophysics, I certainly hope he considers a degree at another university. Browsing through their math department shows that ODE's are the fourth highest level of math you can take. Some high schoolers are taking classes in ODE's :/...Independent study in any subject is cirtually guaranteed to be more useful at, say, a California state school.
Let's compare some course descriptions: Math 105 at East Los Angeles College:
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Mathematics 105 is a course in vector calculus that uses linear algebra. Topics to be covered include: iterated integrals and partial derivatives, optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions, the Implicit Function Theorem, cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, vector fields, divergence and curl, parameterized curves and surfaces, arc length and surface area, and Green's, Stokes's, and Gauss's Theorems.
Hahahaha. I freaking lol'd. I don't know what else the kid's taken (and I'm sure he's smart), but that course is a joke at the very least. My parents (Chinese) taught me that shit while I was still in elementary school.
He probably would've been better off going through highschool and going to a good university instead of speeding through some third-rate college (assuming it's third-rate by that math 105 description).
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Lol, sad considering there were several 6th graders in my Algebra 1 class this year (who easily passed.) Not to mention I go to an ordinary public school in Minnesota.
On June 10 2009 04:01 MayorITC wrote: AND IM SURE HER LIFE WAS MUCH HARDER THAN YOURS KLOCKAN3 BUT SHE DIDN'T RESIGN HERSELF TO BLAMING HER LIFE ON HER PARENTS.
Please, I did not say that the kid in the OP wasn't smart or that I am smarter than him, I did not say that I am nothing due to my parents sucking. I don't blame them at all, their lives were tough when I grew up, they had a lot of divorces here and there with several bad marriages. The deal is that I have to live with it, I just came with my input on the issue.
But of course a lot of sensitive guys like you will come and try to whack me as hard as you can just because you don't want anyone to try to stick out... You are no better than those who try to whack that 11 year old for being nothing but a robot programmed by his parents...
On June 10 2009 04:01 MayorITC wrote: Anyway, I wouldn't take anything Klockan3 says seriously. He's your typical Internet forum "know-it-all" who views himself as the undisputed expert of all matters even when professional experts disagree. Klockan3 can craft whatever theories he wants, but he provides ZERO facts for his main argument. The only support/example is his own life, which is heavily skewed by his stupidly huge ego.
What do you base this on? I did just tell you that everything I said here was due to my experience, I didn't claim to have any facts, I just gave my opinion. There is nothing wrong with coming up with an opinion as long as you do not state it as a fact.
You however is right here doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. If someone tried to argue any points with me I would dig up facts if I wanted to enter the argument, but as it is now it is just a statement of my opinion. The background on myself is a fact though, but of course it is impossible to prove such facts about your personal life so you can't really demand that people giving personal backgrounds on themselves should post evidence of it on a forum...
Wow I can't believe how many of you are picking on the poor kid because he insulted your grown-up-asses by saying video games are a waste of time. They are, you dorks. If you ask me, kids should spend more time outdoors and playing sports than video games.
I'm not saying video games should be banned, but saying that they're NOT a waste of time is kind-of silly, since 95% of the people here ARE just killing time when playing video games. But let's skip that part.
His opinion is not of value because he can't "grow pubes"? Well, IMO, graduating college @ 11 >>> growing pubes. How many of you here haven't graduated college yet but still feel entitled to an opinion? Come on.
The kid just spoke his mind, and everyone who disses him is just jealous of having nothing to show for themselves, because if you would, you'd realize that everyone does what he likes doing. He couldn't have done this if he didn't LIKE studying and giving his best, no matter how much parents push.
I'm sincerely disgusted by most of TL's replies for the first time in my life. Way to poke an 11 y.o.'s eyes out for saying something that's actually very TRUE. Jerks.
On June 10 2009 04:25 CubEdIn wrote: His opinion is not of value because he can't "grow pubes"? Well, IMO, graduating college @ 11 >>> growing pubes. How many of you here haven't graduated college yet but still feel entitled to an opinion? Come on.
I haven't graduated from college and I know full well that my opinion isn't worth a damn. Most people's aren't. Clearly he went through college without learning this.
On June 10 2009 04:25 CubEdIn wrote: The kid just spoke his mind, and everyone who disses him is just jealous of having nothing to show for themselves, because if you would, you'd realize that everyone does what he likes doing. He couldn't have done this if he didn't LIKE studying and giving his best, no matter how much parents push.
Wait, you SERIOUSLY think he spoke his own mind, and isn't just regurgitating what he's been taught? You must be seriously naive if you think its his own, self-formed opinion.
On June 10 2009 04:25 CubEdIn wrote: His opinion is not of value because he can't "grow pubes"? Well, IMO, graduating college @ 11 >>> growing pubes. How many of you here haven't graduated college yet but still feel entitled to an opinion? Come on.
I haven't graduated from college and I know full well that my opinion isn't worth a damn. Most people's aren't. Clearly he went through college without learning this.
On June 10 2009 04:25 CubEdIn wrote: The kid just spoke his mind, and everyone who disses him is just jealous of having nothing to show for themselves, because if you would, you'd realize that everyone does what he likes doing. He couldn't have done this if he didn't LIKE studying and giving his best, no matter how much parents push.
Wait, you SERIOUSLY think he spoke his own mind, and isn't regurgitating what he's been taught? You must be seriously naive if you think its his own, self-formed opinion.
Hillarious. As if anyone has a 100% clear self-formed opinion when they're 11. And even if it's JUST regurgitating what he's been taught, how does that make it less true? Video games ARE wasting time. There are plenty of activities that you can do for fun that have beneficial effects on your mind AND body. Again, I'm not saying nobody should play video games, I'm just saying that now-a-days, kids are growing up doing JUST this, which is horrible in so many ways.
Also, I never said that his opinion mattered more than others', but saying that his DOES NOT matter because he is only 11 is idiotic. He clearly has the ability to reason, so his opinion should matter just as much as the next schmuck's.
Holy shit, how do we have 13 pages about some kid's comment about video games? This reminds me of that thread about that prodigy who killed himself, which also caused many pages of discussion. Most of the replies seem to be about rationalizing why he graduated college and predicting he will burn out...
On June 10 2009 04:35 CubEdIn wrote: Hillarious. As if anyone has a 100% clear self-formed opinion when they're 11.
That's the point. He's 11. He *can't* have a 100% self-formed opinion. How is his opinion valuable enough to be proclaimed on television and the news if its not even his own?
On June 10 2009 04:35 CubEdIn wrote: And even if it's JUST regurgitating what he's been taught, how does that make it less true? Video games ARE wasting time. There are plenty of activities that you can do for fun that have beneficial effects on your mind AND body. Again, I'm not saying nobody should play video games, I'm just saying that now-a-days, kids are growing up doing JUST this, which is horrible in so many ways.
Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The statement being true doesn't mean that it's appropriate to express on TV, especially when you're just regurgitating something someone told you.
On June 10 2009 04:35 CubEdIn wrote: Also, I never said that his opinion mattered more than others', but saying that his DOES NOT matter because he is only 11 is idiotic. He clearly has the ability to reason, so his opinion should matter just as much as the next schmuck's.
The difference is "the next schmuck" isn't getting interviewed on television, and telling everyone how he's going to change the world.
On June 10 2009 04:25 CubEdIn wrote: The kid just spoke his mind, and everyone who disses him is just jealous of having nothing to show for themselves, because if you would, you'd realize that everyone does what he likes doing. He couldn't have done this if he didn't LIKE studying and giving his best, no matter how much parents push.
Wait, you SERIOUSLY think he spoke his own mind, and isn't just regurgitating what he's been taught? You must be seriously naive if you think its his own, self-formed opinion.
To be quite honest, I think (super genius) 11 year-olds are smart enough to form their own opinions about the world. Though his opinions were probably influenced by his parents, I think its a bit of stretch to say he's just "regurgitating what he's been taught."
BTW, I doubt there are many people in the world who have a 100% self-formed opinion. Essentially the only way that would be possible would be if someone had never been in contact with another human being.
He's not... a super genius though. He's talented, gifted, sure. But hold off on proclaiming him Tesla reborn until he actually does something praiseworthy.
In this day and age we laud 'potential' and 'effort' so much more than actual results. It's inane.
On June 10 2009 04:46 4iner wrote: BTW, I doubt there are many people in the world who have a 100% self-formed opinion. Essentially the only way that would be possible would be if someone had never been in contact with another human being.
Again, most of those people though don't end up on television telling people what's right and wrong, and how they're going to change the world. Or writing a book about it.
On June 10 2009 04:46 4iner wrote: BTW, I doubt there are many people in the world who have a 100% self-formed opinion. Essentially the only way that would be possible would be if someone had never been in contact with another human being.
Again, most of those people though don't end up on television telling people what's right and wrong, and how they're going to change the world. Or writing a book about it.
So now you're going to step into the "who should be on TV" field? It will never end. The point is that he was on TV because he accomplished something that not many can. He got his 15 minutes of fame and he just answered a question in the way he saw fit. No need to claw his eyes out for not trying to come up with something that couldn't possibly bother anyone ever.
And yeah, every now and then you do see the next schmuck on TV being asked random questions and you make fun of him or appreciate his answer, that doesn't mean you have to take it for granted or anything, it's just one man's opinion. Or one kid's opinion. It's just an opinion. He graduated college @ 11, so he "earned" the right to be on tv for 5 minutes. Don't you think?
On June 10 2009 03:33 Empyrean wrote: Ok, so I've been browsing around the ELAC website...even though this kid is technically a college graduate, if he really wants to have a successful career in astrophysics, I certainly hope he considers a degree at another university. Browsing through their math department shows that ODE's are the fourth highest level of math you can take. Some high schoolers are taking classes in ODE's :/...Independent study in any subject is cirtually guaranteed to be more useful at, say, a California state school.
Let's compare some course descriptions: Math 105 at East Los Angeles College:
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Mathematics 105 is a course in vector calculus that uses linear algebra. Topics to be covered include: iterated integrals and partial derivatives, optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions, the Implicit Function Theorem, cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, vector fields, divergence and curl, parameterized curves and surfaces, arc length and surface area, and Green's, Stokes's, and Gauss's Theorems.
Hahahaha. I freaking lol'd. I don't know what else the kid's taken (and I'm sure he's smart), but that course is a joke at the very least. My parents (Chinese) taught me that shit while I was still in elementary school.
He probably would've been better off going through highschool and going to a good university instead of speeding through some third-rate college (assuming it's third-rate by that math 105 description).
Criticism is fine. most likely not a very high grade course. but you cant say you learnt "optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions" in elementary school. (1-5 assuming 6-8 is middle school). in Grade 6 you would NOT have known how to parameterized. stop blowing shit out of proportion.
On June 10 2009 03:33 Empyrean wrote: Ok, so I've been browsing around the ELAC website...even though this kid is technically a college graduate, if he really wants to have a successful career in astrophysics, I certainly hope he considers a degree at another university. Browsing through their math department shows that ODE's are the fourth highest level of math you can take. Some high schoolers are taking classes in ODE's :/...Independent study in any subject is cirtually guaranteed to be more useful at, say, a California state school.
Let's compare some course descriptions: Math 105 at East Los Angeles College:
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Mathematics 105 is a course in vector calculus that uses linear algebra. Topics to be covered include: iterated integrals and partial derivatives, optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions, the Implicit Function Theorem, cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, vector fields, divergence and curl, parameterized curves and surfaces, arc length and surface area, and Green's, Stokes's, and Gauss's Theorems.
Hahahaha. I freaking lol'd. I don't know what else the kid's taken (and I'm sure he's smart), but that course is a joke at the very least. My parents (Chinese) taught me that shit while I was still in elementary school.
He probably would've been better off going through highschool and going to a good university instead of speeding through some third-rate college (assuming it's third-rate by that math 105 description).
Criticism is fine. most likely not a very high grade course. but you cant say you learnt "optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions" in elementary school. (1-5 assuming 6-8 is middle school). in Grade 6 you would NOT have known how to parameterized. stop blowing shit out of proportion.
I think he was talking about the
Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent.
On June 10 2009 03:33 Empyrean wrote: Ok, so I've been browsing around the ELAC website...even though this kid is technically a college graduate, if he really wants to have a successful career in astrophysics, I certainly hope he considers a degree at another university. Browsing through their math department shows that ODE's are the fourth highest level of math you can take. Some high schoolers are taking classes in ODE's :/...Independent study in any subject is cirtually guaranteed to be more useful at, say, a California state school.
Let's compare some course descriptions: Math 105 at East Los Angeles College:
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Mathematics 105 is a course in vector calculus that uses linear algebra. Topics to be covered include: iterated integrals and partial derivatives, optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions, the Implicit Function Theorem, cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, vector fields, divergence and curl, parameterized curves and surfaces, arc length and surface area, and Green's, Stokes's, and Gauss's Theorems.
That's a pretty ridiculous comparison on several levels. Every college has different number schemes for their classes, so it's entirely pointless to compare two classes just because they have 105 in common. I'm sure that Duke has classes designed to cater to people who are not particularly good at math. There are a lot of students at duke, and not all of them took AP calculus in high school, aced the math portion of their SAT, and jumped right into vector calculus their freshman year.
Also East LA College probably doesn't even have a class like that, being a small community college. If they can do basic math, college algebra, calculus, and maybe a few classes in things like multivariable/linear algebra/etc, they've probably maxed out their budget and teaching staff.
Also even if he IS ridiculously intelligent and not just a gifted hard worker who is pushed by his parents, who is more likely to change the world:
1 guy in the top .0001% or Any 1 of THREE MILLION guys in the top 1%
Diminishing returns, guys... contrary to what you might be led to believe by reading Ender's Game, a little bit of extra intelligence doesn't help you naturally float to the top of society. Look at anyone who has a great reputation for success... Rockefeller, Einstein, Bill Gates, Alexander Graham Bell, Stravinsky, Edison, Frank Sinatra, I don't care, They all put tens of thousands of hours into their chosen profession before anyone even heard of them.
On June 10 2009 12:44 Biochemist wrote: Also even if he IS ridiculously intelligent and not just a gifted hard worker who is pushed by his parents, who is more likely to change the world:
1 guy in the top .0001% or Any 1 of THREE MILLION guys in the top 1%
Diminishing returns, guys... contrary to what you might be led to believe by reading Ender's Game, a little bit of extra intelligence doesn't help you naturally float to the top of society. Look at anyone who has a great reputation for success... Rockefeller, Einstein, Bill Gates, Alexander Graham Bell, Stravinsky, Edison, Frank Sinatra, I don't care, They all put tens of thousands of hours into their chosen profession before anyone even heard of them.
Ender was more of a leader than an intellectual...
The kid is right. If you're all about helping humanity, gaming is a waste of time. But if you're in it for personal enjoyment, gaming is a lot of fun.
That little bugger is mighty ambitious. But if he thinks that people don't need diversions, then he needs to be beaten by reality. At this level of civilization where food and shelter are easily satisfied entertainment is highest priority.
On June 10 2009 03:33 Empyrean wrote: Ok, so I've been browsing around the ELAC website...even though this kid is technically a college graduate, if he really wants to have a successful career in astrophysics, I certainly hope he considers a degree at another university. Browsing through their math department shows that ODE's are the fourth highest level of math you can take. Some high schoolers are taking classes in ODE's :/...Independent study in any subject is cirtually guaranteed to be more useful at, say, a California state school.
Let's compare some course descriptions: Math 105 at East Los Angeles College:
This course is designed to give students understanding and competency in the basic operations of elementary arithmetic. Topics include the standard operations with applications on whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratio, proportion, and percent. Additional topics may be chosen from geometric figures and introduction to algebra.
Mathematics 105 is a course in vector calculus that uses linear algebra. Topics to be covered include: iterated integrals and partial derivatives, optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions, the Implicit Function Theorem, cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, vector fields, divergence and curl, parameterized curves and surfaces, arc length and surface area, and Green's, Stokes's, and Gauss's Theorems.
Hahahaha. I freaking lol'd. I don't know what else the kid's taken (and I'm sure he's smart), but that course is a joke at the very least. My parents (Chinese) taught me that shit while I was still in elementary school.
He probably would've been better off going through highschool and going to a good university instead of speeding through some third-rate college (assuming it's third-rate by that math 105 description).
Criticism is fine. most likely not a very high grade course. but you cant say you learnt "optimization (constrained and unconstrained) in multiple dimensions" in elementary school. (1-5 assuming 6-8 is middle school). in Grade 6 you would NOT have known how to parameterized. stop blowing shit out of proportion.
On June 10 2009 04:46 4iner wrote: BTW, I doubt there are many people in the world who have a 100% self-formed opinion. Essentially the only way that would be possible would be if someone had never been in contact with another human being.
Again, most of those people though don't end up on television telling people what's right and wrong, and how they're going to change the world. Or writing a book about it.
Most people also don't graduate from college at fucking 11 years old you idiot. When you're able to do something that most of your peers aren't doing for another decade, then you get to have your time in the spotlight too, ok?
All these comments here about "having no life" and cries of "nerd" or "virgin" make my blood boil. Firstly, what does having a "life" even mean? Is there some scale whereby only those who go to a certain amount of parties per week should be valued in society? Secondly, why does the act of fornification bear such weight? Is this really the metric by which an individual should be judged, whether or not he/she has screwed someone else?
If you reject all of the above and insist that these are the correct standards to be applied to society, then you do all realize you're posting on the forum of a website dedicated to coverage of a professionally played, decade old game, right? Pot, kettle, etc.
On June 11 2009 00:52 Draconizard wrote: All these comments here about "having no life" and cries of "nerd" or "virgin" make my blood boil. Firstly, what does having a "life" even mean? Is there some scale whereby only those who go to a certain amount of parties per week should be valued in society? Secondly, why does the act of fornification bear such weight? Is this really the metric by which an individual should be judged, whether or not he/she has screwed someone else?
If you reject all of the above and insist that these are the correct standards to be applied to society, then you do all realize you're posting on the forum of a website dedicated to coverage of a professionally played, decade old game, right? Pot, kettle, etc.
For real people are retarded calling him a nerd virgin. Should he be fucking 11 year old girls cause he's a graduate? Soooo many people on the internet are just fucking stupid. Also, he is planning to go to a better university for another 4 year program.
I love everyone cutting him down. You realize your bad mouthing an 11 year old over the internet. Wake up losers.
On June 11 2009 02:58 MiniRomanian wrote: For real people are retarded calling him a nerd virgin. Should he be fucking 11 year old girls cause he's a graduate? Soooo many people on the internet are just fucking stupid. Also, he is planning to go to a better university for another 4 year program.
I love everyone cutting him down. You realize your bad mouthing an 11 year old over the internet. Wake up losers.
Hey, that's actually the small part of this thread that's funny!
I think it's kind of funny that so many video game sites have such large posts about this. I don't get why people care. Yeah, video games don't contribute to society. That's pretty obvious. They're fun though and life sucks. Considering he's 11 the kid probably didn't word what he wanted to say correctly and probably meant that they don't really benefit him as a person. If the wants to have everything better himself as a person that he does that's cool. Don't see why that many people care.
Helping humanity cannot be the sole driving factor in life. It is illogical. If it were so, then the purpose of life would be to help other people whose purpose would be to help others. It is circular, just helping to help helpers help.
11 year old understanding the concept of HUMANITY??? rofl bolshevism. humanity is a concept engulfed in classics, literature, culture, and art that take years and years of time to read and see much less comprehend. he sped his way through school and college, what does he know about humanity except reading textbooks and getting grades? hahaha, sad shit.
Haven't been to tl in a couple days and what bombshell this thread is.
This 11 year olds comment really has people who play games up in flames? Video games really aren't a help to greater humanity. By "help" I mean advancement, but all these words and ideas are really murky by nature. On an individual level, they unite people and bring the victory/defeat feelings with them. Widescale, they take brainpower and countless hours away from pursuits that could better the lives of other people.
I don't know him, and this next paragraph is my guess. He's been really lucky to gain an intellect and the background to use it. He wants to be a service to humanity (he's 11 years old. I'm sure more than one of us remembers the time when they wanted to change the world in a big way). With an intellect that large at an age that young, he has a uniquely clean filter that he can view the world through. We all realize this to some degree which give his words status and credibility. He says that what some people devote their lives to is a waste of time. But at the same time, he is 11. He can't understand some things yet.
This all boils down to a debate about whether or not "having fun" is an acceptable way to spend so much time, and this reduces even further to worldwide cultural values that haven't had a reason to change yet.
I've seen a couple different types of responses in this thread. To the ones who are putting down this 11 year old, why do you have to justify that gaming ISN'T a waste of time to yourself? This boy just insulted something you appreciate and the immediate anger + offense of the responses (however subtle) is telling of self-conditioning. Just because you've spent a lot of time doing something, abandoning it isn't a waste as long as you retain the lessons and skills you've gained from it.
E-sports and video games have their place and serve a purpose for people. Even 4chan compared video games to other, accepted mediums of human ideas. We're at a generational bridge with the recent advent of video games. They serve little other purposes than entertainment right now, and have yet to be accepted by older generations. The problem with games is that they are so relatively unbalancing in time in energy to a great deal of people.
This tells again of those deep underlying values the world shares right now, but I can't do that justice in the 10 minutes I've spent on this post because I've only just thought about it. But what do I really know about all this stuff, I'm a willing participant in it.
On June 10 2009 23:28 Hawk wrote: Most people also don't graduate from college at fucking 11 years old you idiot. When you're able to do something that most of your peers aren't doing for another decade, then you get to have your time in the spotlight too, ok?
Because graduating from college at age 11 clearly means your opinion about what benefits humanity or how to educate children is worth something? They're entirely unrelated. It's like saying that winning the Nobel Prize in physics qualifies you to tell other guys how to approach women. They're unrelated topics and just because you're an absolute genius in one area does not mean your knowledge in another is just as good.
What people forgot about these people is that while they graduated college at 11, they don't necessarily have anything more than the mental skills of someone who just graduated college. He isn't super-intelligent, he's just average early 20s intelligence at a young age.
I wouldn't care what some guy who just graduated college at 22 said, so I don't necessarily care any more what this guy said. Except he has less life experience.
On June 12 2009 07:52 ShmotZ wrote: next michael jackson o.o?+ Show Spoiler +
Jk give that boy a starcraft cd
I'm reasonably sure that his parents wouldn't allow him to use it
And he seems content not to question their decisions and opinions just yet.
This gets me thinking though. In college you run into a lot of very opinionated professors, especially in fields like, say, political science. Is it a good idea to expose your super impressionable youngster to all these ideas before they've developed good critical thinking and reasoning skills?
EPT
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