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On July 09 2010 13:23 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 13:08 gchan wrote:On July 09 2010 09:37 Megalisk wrote:On July 09 2010 08:53 Waffles wrote:
Oh hey guys, since a white man was racist to a black man, lets pour into the streets, scaring almost all of the businesses in the area which are mostly run by minorities and destroy their business. I mean we are only in the worst economic recession since the great depression, but those businesses wouldnt mind that we take a day and a half worth of their profits, rob their stores, and at that we waste money totaling over a million dollars to monitor and make sure these dumbasses dont kill anyone. Its funny cause when they go on these stupid riots they end up destroying a bunch of their own shit. And I didn't think it was racism, it was just a freak accident. That being said, that cop got way too little time, 2-4 years is bullshit. 4 years in prison as an ex police officer is practically a death sentence. Elaborate
If he doesn't get protective custody in jail, inmates are gonna fuck him up.
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On January 05 2009 12:47 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 12:25 GeneralStan wrote:
"loving father", "hard worker" and "sports enthusiast" all sound like cover for the fact that this Grant character was clearly a violent sociopath. I'm sure he had it coming. wow, you sound impressively cold and heartless. maybe you deserve to be shot as well.
Agreed. You should've been in his place. To blatantly say that this guy is a "clearly a violent sociopath" and that "he had it coming" is just disrespectful. How could anyone ever respect you as a person after just saying something so heartless about the death of a person that may have been a mistake. I mean I don't know who the person was that got shot but if i had to say you or him I'd put you in his place just from what i saw and read.
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On July 09 2010 11:30 ThePurist wrote:
[x
not to mention i was in the middle of the place 1 hour before the verdict was announced. It was a disaster. every store in downtown oakland was frantically closing their stores because of what happen last time. Many stores boarded up their windows days before. there should be no reason ANY american should need to do this kind of thing.(bar hurricanes). The traffic because everyone was frantically leaving was terrible. EVERY on ramp to the freeways were backed up for blocks and that almost never happens.
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On July 09 2010 13:26 Megalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 13:23 Fruscainte wrote:On July 09 2010 13:08 gchan wrote:On July 09 2010 09:37 Megalisk wrote:On July 09 2010 08:53 Waffles wrote:
Oh hey guys, since a white man was racist to a black man, lets pour into the streets, scaring almost all of the businesses in the area which are mostly run by minorities and destroy their business. I mean we are only in the worst economic recession since the great depression, but those businesses wouldnt mind that we take a day and a half worth of their profits, rob their stores, and at that we waste money totaling over a million dollars to monitor and make sure these dumbasses dont kill anyone. Its funny cause when they go on these stupid riots they end up destroying a bunch of their own shit. And I didn't think it was racism, it was just a freak accident. That being said, that cop got way too little time, 2-4 years is bullshit. 4 years in prison as an ex police officer is practically a death sentence. Elaborate If he doesn't get protective custody in jail, inmates are gonna fuck him up.
I'm pretty sure Cops are separated from general population.
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On July 09 2010 13:40 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 13:26 Megalisk wrote:On July 09 2010 13:23 Fruscainte wrote:On July 09 2010 13:08 gchan wrote:On July 09 2010 09:37 Megalisk wrote:On July 09 2010 08:53 Waffles wrote:
Oh hey guys, since a white man was racist to a black man, lets pour into the streets, scaring almost all of the businesses in the area which are mostly run by minorities and destroy their business. I mean we are only in the worst economic recession since the great depression, but those businesses wouldnt mind that we take a day and a half worth of their profits, rob their stores, and at that we waste money totaling over a million dollars to monitor and make sure these dumbasses dont kill anyone. Its funny cause when they go on these stupid riots they end up destroying a bunch of their own shit. And I didn't think it was racism, it was just a freak accident. That being said, that cop got way too little time, 2-4 years is bullshit. 4 years in prison as an ex police officer is practically a death sentence. Elaborate If he doesn't get protective custody in jail, inmates are gonna fuck him up. I'm pretty sure Cops are separated from general population.
They are because they would never last long in prision.
Also the rioting and crap is caused by anarchist who are dressed in black covering their faces, wow don't they not stand out =p They also tend to be white.
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Rioting doesn't usually mean physically abusing people but more along the lines of property destruction as a mob. And yeah you're right it's really unnecessary. A non-violent protest would suffice and maybe some coverage from the mass media to gain supporters.
The outcome is never final. A re-sentencing could be in order upon review from other judges and there could be lawyers that may feel strongly about this case and try to fight it again for a retrial. Who knows? I don't know much about the technicalities but as the another user stated previously, it could mean an additional 10 years because it involved a firearm. I would guess a strong public outcry, and awareness from the locals would have some sort of social influence (not in the courts) but for people to review and analyze the case.
This whole incident brings up a ton of issues and what I meant to say was money was far from the main issues at hand.
1) If you are African-American taking the BART would you feel safe?
2) Is it justified for a police officer to shoot another man and get a 4 year jail sentence?
3) Is the family going to sue BART and the city's police force for liability?
4) What measure will be taken by the police officers to prevent such incident from occurring again?
5) Will there be a possibility of a re-sentencing?
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it's pointless to riot now, there is likely going to be an appeal just due to the nature of the sentence which is some what contradictory because of the gun enhancement part and seems like a middle ground that the jury worked out in order to get out, also they don't know how much he's going to get, as little as 5 as much as 14 years
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#4: They issued everyone taser holsters and gun holsters rather than having people share. Therefore it should not happen again unintentionally.
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It is certainly a sad event. I am very surprised that no one here feels that if all of the people standing around had just backed off and let the cops do their job, this probably all would have been avoided.
You can hate the cops all that you want and there are many bad ones, but when you are put specifically in those shoes, it is hard to say what you would or wouldn't do, much less what might accidentally happen due to stress and adrenaline.
When you are outnumbered 20:1 it is very hard to assume how you would react. Those cops were probably fearing for their own lives in that situation.
That was one step away from all of those cops being killed by the mob. I think the cop should be removed and probably sentenced with manslaughter, but the group aggravated the situation, no matter what you beliefs of cops are.
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On July 09 2010 13:57 oBlit wrote:
It is certainly a sad event. I am very surprised that no one here feels that if all of the people standing around had just backed off and let the cops do their job, this probably all would have been avoided.
You can hate the cops all that you want and there are many bad ones, but when you are put specifically in those shoes, it is hard to say what you would or wouldn't do, much less what might accidentally happen due to stress and adrenaline.
When you are outnumbered 20:1 it is very hard to assume how you would react. Those cops were probably fearing for their own lives in that situation.
That was one step away from all of those cops being killed by the mob. I think the cop should be removed and probably sentenced with manslaughter, but the group aggravated the situation, no matter what you beliefs of cops are.
i think its especially sad that in this part of the area that hating cops make you cool. I was taught the opposite when i was a kid and i dont know where this belief came from.
lolsociety.
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People hate on cops and say stupid shit like "Fuck the police" and at the end of the day we do need policing for our safety and to maintain peace and order. And I can only imagine what it would be like to be a cop, having a tough stressful job and people hating for no particular reason. Given the nature of their job, police officers are given a lot of power and rightly so.
But, when they fail to do their job "to serve and protect" and in this case (this is arguable) used their power to kill and individual and get a 4 year sentence. I feel as if there is a double standard. Nobody is above the law and police officers are supposed to enforce the law and when they fail to do so and actually act in a manner opposing the law, they should be dealt with strict manner.
I'm sure there was a debate over "heat of the moment" if it was intent+motive. But in the end he shot a guy he was supposed to protect just like anybody else.
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On July 09 2010 14:01 Waffles wrote:
i think its especially sad that in this part of the area that hating cops make you cool. I was taught the opposite when i was a kid and i dont know where this belief came from.
lolsociety.
It is perfectly obvious that those who hate cops typically break the law. As I said, some of them are bad and power hungry. but that is dealt with in every walk of life.
They are put in place to protect the citizens and enforce laws. That situation looked to me like it could get out of control at any second. The mob should have backed off.
Still, the cop should be removed and go to prison, no questions asked.
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On July 09 2010 13:24 ThePurist wrote:
The looting seems really unnecessary -_-. I'd imagine they would riot/make a public outcry because of an injustice not to steal goods. Hope you're safe buddy.
Thanks. My area is quite safe but its close to there. Just went out to get frozen yogurt and didn't end up dying. (Also fun irrelevant fact, the place across from the place I just went to is Fettons, the ice cream place in Pixar's Up)
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In Toronto there was that whole G-20 shit going down, people were burning cop cars smashing windows at the financial district.
I live where that shit happened but I can tell you honestly it wasn't that bad and the media fucking blew it way out of proportion. But I didn't go outside cuz I didn't feel like getting trampled by RCMP horses and shit.
EDIT: I wasn't joking about the horse thing. One of my friends went to protest and he told me they set police officers on horses to try to break up the crowds. If you didn't get out of the way you'd get trampled.
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naw that's unlikely the police are well preparied for it and most of the community was set up to stop most of those people who try to take advantage of people gathering. Although they did break into a footlocker and stole some shoes...
But overall the media been kind and saying that it's been fairly peaceful minu a few rouge elements.
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On July 09 2010 14:10 ThePurist wrote:
In Toronto there was that whole G-20 shit going down, people were burning cop cars smashing windows at the financial district.
I live where that shit happened but I can tell you honestly it wasn't that bad and the media fucking blew it way out of proportion. But I didn't go outside cuz I didn't feel like getting trampled by RCMP horses and shit.
Media always does that. Its what gets people watching
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I was just wondering from the people who reside near the area.
How many black people in a crowd of 10 (assume)
What do you guys think about the 20 man jury without any African-Americans? Does it really represent the populace?
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Can't tell you about the crowd of 10 question because I wasn't that close.
But, the second part is much more important than you'd think. In this area, it is very historically significant, the amount of racism that is. Though areas such as suburbs and etc are generally protected from ideas such as racism, sexism, etc, the urban areas never have forgotten any police brutality that ever happened, questionable or not.
Think about it this way, living in a racially peaceful area, this event seems like people blowing this race thing out of proportion because you don't see many ideas that racism to this scale still exists. However, in an area such as urban Oakland, it is the opposite, and anything that remotely resembles hate crime becomes hate crime, whereas to others (since it also resembles an accident or random killing) it resembles non racism hate crime.
It is a very complex thing because it really depends on where you were brought up.
That said, I still don't know who's side I am on.
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United States454 Posts
I've lived in Oakland for almost all of my life, and I'm having trouble expressing the magnitude of this situation. Reading this thread has been fascinating; it's good to see people who offer sympathy for the pain Oakland is experiencing and it hurts to see people write it off purely as an unruly crowd jumping on the chance to loot and steal.
What scares me most is that the conflict downtown is so quickly overshadowing the crime committed. The killing of Oscar Grant was a violent, sudden blow to Oakland, and whether you like it or not, the effects of it were extremely racially charged. Oakland is a city of racial extremes and a lot of tension results from it (To answer your question ThePurist [I'm assuming you meant in a general crowd, not specific to the crowd downtown], it varies greatly; outside of my house it would probably around 5/10 people in a crowd would be black, in the hills it's more like 1/10, and down by Broadway [where the protests were taking place] I would estimate 7/10 people would be black. A 20 man jury with no black people on it is a massive fluke). While the crime itself wasn't necessarily committed due to racism, the imagery of a white policeman shooting an unarmed, restrained black man is incredibly powerful, and it's not the kind of thing that a city like Oakland can shake.
The anger that is resulting is, while very wrong, understandable; it isn't some outside angst or bitterness towards the police, it isn't random Thanatotic outlash, it is genuine hurt and outrage towards the verdict. That said, violence, looting, and disputes with the police only serve to deepen the wounds Oakland has already suffered today, and certainly do nothing to improve its image.
With that said, hopefully everyone can try to be a little more understanding as to why my city is in turmoil (and a great thank you to those who already have been understanding). It is an environment unlike almost any other in the world, and the death of Oscar Grant has greatly affected Oakland as a whole.
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EPT
