"I know when I speak that God is up there and God knows the truth and God will not forgive the liars," said Radwan, who puts the number of villagers killed at 93, listed in his own handwriting. "There were no rapes. It's all lies. There were no pregnant women who were slit open. It was propaganda that... Arabs put out so Arab armies would invade," he said. "They ended up expelling people from all of Palestine on the rumor of Deir Yassin."
- Mohammed Radwan, fought and survived the Deir Yassin battle, reported by Paul Holmes, Middle East Times, 20-April-1998
PBS BBC Documentary about the Deir Yassin Lies
It was a military conflict on a strategic point leading to Jerusalem. The result was around 110 Arabs dead some of them civilians, some of them Iraqi soldiers dressed as women. Khalidi and other leaders created a lot of horrible lies and published them to cause the Arab armies around to come and destroy the Jews. The effect was ironically opposite, the Arabs who were convinced the lies were true were horrified and fled as fast as they could from Israel. They later admitted they were wrong in doing that and that it caused them more harm than good to invent those horrible things.
"The Red Cross was called in to assist the wounded and civilians, found no evidence of a massacre. The most recent review (July 1999), by Arab scholars at Beir Zayyit University in Ramallah, indicates that there was no massacre, but rather a military conflict in which civiliams were killed in the crossfire. The total Arab dead included Iraqi soldiers dressed as women to hide among them, according to the Beir Zayyit calculation, was 107."
"PBS with the joint BBC-WGBH production traced the turbulent events of the last half century since the founding of the modern nation of Israel.
Following in the footsteps of Palestinian historians such as Walid Khalidi of Harvard University and Shairf Kana'ana of Bir Zeit University in Ramallah, West Bank, they show that the massacre of Deir Yasin in 1948 was exaggerated by the Arab side. Rather than encourage resistance, this precipitated the flight of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians into neighbouring Arab countries.
As a result of this propaganda, Arab civilians panicked and fled by the tens of thousands. This was confirmed in the PBS documentary called The Fifty Years of War in which Deir Yassin survivors were interviewed. They testified that they had begged Dr. Hussein Khalidi, director of Voice of Palestine (the Palestinian radio station in East Jerusalem) to edit out the lies and fabrications of atrocities that never happened. He cynically exaggerated the casualties of the Deir Yassin battle, making up stories of gang rape, brutalizing of pregnant women, killing unborn children cut from their mothers' wombs by blood-thirsty Jews, and massive murders with bodies thrown into a nearby quarry.
In the PBS special, "The Fifty Years' War," and in the accompanying book by the same name, written by Jihan El-Tawri and Aaron Bregman, the lie for the greater good—"Al-Taqiya"—reappears, as an Arab eye-witness recalls:
The following morning the surviving villagers [after the battle] went to a meeting with the National Committee, the local Palestinian leadership in Jerusalem. It was up to the committee to decide how they should handle what had happened. Mahmoud [Mahmoud Assad Yassini] remembers that the survivors were asked to exaggerate some aspects of the terrible events: "When we arrived in Jerusalem, we were taken to a hotel near the Damascus gate. We started asking each other who had been killed, who was alive. Then the leaders of the National Committee arrived, including Dr. Hussein Fakhri Al-Khalidi [head of the National Committee in Jerusalem]. He invited some of us to his headquarters. He said: ' We want you to say that the Jews slaughtered people, committed atrocities, raped, and stole gold.' He said you have to say this so that the Arab [not Palestinian] armies will finally make a move and come to liberate Palestine from the Jews."
Hazem Nusseibah, a senior program assistant for the Palestine Broadcasting Corporation, was also contacted by the National Committee. "Dr. Hussein Khalidi phoned me," he remembers, "and said we must alert the Arab countries to what is happening. I was sure there were no rapes, but we were shaken by the events." Ironically, it was Nusseibah's broadcast exaggerating the atrocities that triggered the mass exodus of Palestinians [Arabs] from their homes. He recalls: "We transmitted Dr. Hussein Fakhri Al-Khalidi's statement mentioning rape and this and that. It had a devasting impact on everyone in Palestine, and the exodus began....It was the biggest blunder that could have happened."
Abu Tawkif and Abu Mahmoud resent the way these distortions of the truth led to Arabs fleeing their homes. Mahmoud observes, "Dr. Hussein Fakhri Al-Khalidi was the one who caused the catastrophe. Instead of working in our favor, the propaganda worked in favor of the Jews. Whole villages and towns fled because of what they heard had happened in Deir Yassin." And while relating the story on PBS, Hazem Nusseibah and Dr. Hussein Khalidi can be seen chuckling with one another about how wrong they were in creating the lie of Deir Yassin [which] definitely caused the Arab population to run away every time they thought a Jewish soldier was coming near. "
Maybe if both people survive themselves, when the Sea of Galilee dries up, both sides will sit down and use reason to solve their problems. Unfortunately fratricidal wars always end up with many dead brothers. The descendants of Shlem have been at it for eons..
On December 31 2008 09:16 HeadBangaa wrote: The only counterpoint is to argue that Israel shouldn't exist in the first place, because Arabs have occupied the land for X-amount of time.
Firstly, recognize the existence of Judah's Kingdom of Israel in palestine, where Jews lived until 500BC, when they were conquered by the Babylonians.
And how was it that the Hebrews came into possession of the land and established their kingdom in the first place?
How does anybody take any land?
There are several ways of acquiring land, and most don't involve slaughtering or enslaving the men , women and children that already live on that land.
Uhhh..I am pretty sure that the Jews didn't just charge into the middle East after WW2 blowing people away with guns. The UN set that land apart for them and the moved there. Then on the date that they became an official country rather than a piece of UN protected land, all their surrounding countries attacked them and then got messed up.
So for Israel their acquiring their land when it was first established as a country, did not come by bloodshed but by UN edict. Then only AFTER they were attacked, did they expand on their land.
This continues the long history Israel has of being attacked first, then counterattacking and coming out victorious because they use American equipment.
But the point is that Israel's enemies almost always are the ones who start the bloodshed. Israel is almost always the one who counterattacks and defends itself with what some might call "disproportionate" force--which is a stupid term as I have shown anyway.
Yes the Israelis never committed any act of preemptive aggression. Are you serious? If you know so little about middle east history then you really shouldn't be writing in this thread at all.
Hint- Here's a clue for you, one example of terrorist activities carried out by Zionist groups:
"The King David Hotel bombing was a deadly bomb strike by the Irgun, a militant Zionist group, on the headquarters of the British Mandatory authorities of Palestine, located at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The offensive was carried out on 22 July 1946 and was the deadliest attack against the British during the Mandate era (1920-1948).
Operating in disguise, Irgun members planted a bomb in the basement of the main building of the hotel, part of which housed the Mandate Secretariat and the British military headquarters. Telephoned warnings were sent to the main switchboard of the hotel, the Palestine Post newspaper and the French consulate[1][2], but no evacuation was carried out, giving rise to much controversy over the reasons why people were not cleared from the building. The ensuing explosion caused the collapse of the southwestern corner of the southern wing of the hotel. 91 people were killed and 46 were injured, with some of the deaths and injuries occurring in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings.[1]"
On January 02 2009 00:33 iloveoil wrote: I guess starving them to death was taking too long
yeah, that or maybe their cute little homemade rockets landed in their neighbor's backyard a few times too often
We keep hearing about this constant barrage of sophisticated Syrian rockets into Tel Aviv, but look at the death counts. As of this morning: 4 Israelis dead, 425 Palestinians dead.
Are Israelis just that much better at running around dodging missiles?
Do people realize that Israel has choked off supplies to Gaza for several years now. Electricity, food, water, paper and specifically school supplies. And it's not like we're talking about Afghanis who are used to living in crap, this is an educated, developed population.
Do people realize that Israel has choked off supplies to Gaza for several years now. Electricity, food, water, paper and specifically school supplies. And it's not like we're talking about Afghanis who are used to living in crap, this is an educated, developed population.
I think this is the missing link to the conversation. Earlier in the thread someone tried to make the point that the conflict only reaches the news when Israel strikes, but not every time Hamas launches a rocket into Israel. Just the same the news is not reporting on how Israel has Gaza on complete lockdown. They are not even letting medical supplies in right now. There is daily and ongoing oppression of Gaza that is completely ignored in the media. These aren't 2 equal parties sizing each other up. One party has its hands around the others throat on a daily basis.
''There is daily and ongoing oppression of Gaza that is completely ignored in the media. These aren't 2 equal parties sizing each other up. One party has its hands around the others throat on a daily basis''
that is true... i was talking with hypocrate Zuroff from Simon Wiesenthal... when i asked him about fascism in Gaza, lockdown of electricity, water, food, medications.. he said that it is way to fight against terrorism... if he is so brainwashed then we can't imagine how brainwashed is whole nation...
On January 02 2009 00:13 Locke. wrote: The truth is that having a "Palestinian State" in Israel means the destruction of Israel, it will never be a peaceful solution. Both practically and ideologically it will never work and we are seeing it clearer and clearer every day that passes by. The Palestinian Liberation Front was made before 1967 with the purpose of destroying Israel and joining a large Pan-Arabian state. It is not about "Palestinian" identity, it is about Arab identity. When the Arabs in Israel lived under Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian "occupation" they didn't ask any of them for independence.
They want Israel to be an Arab country with no Jews and we want a Jewish country with a faithful Arab minority. Unfortunately our treacherous leadership has accepted the madness of the Palestinian idea and now either a war or the slow destruction of Israel is inevitable.
The only way there will ever be something similar to peace around Israel is if Israel will control all of its land, the arabs who aren't loyal to our country will be asked to live in one of the 57 muslim countries or where ever they wish (getting financial help from Israel to leave) and those who do accept Israel can live in it as a minority with complete human rights (far more than they receive in any Arab country).
"Arab Identity" Mate you have been reading too much Zionist propaganda. This is the first point that any Zionist tries to make is that Arabs make no distinction between a Palestinian or a Syrian or a "Muslim". This is why i never reply to any of your posts ever, because the whole foundation of your mindset is decrepit.
Oh and to add to the ops input on Clash of Civilizations. To sum up, the entire Palestine-Israel conflict in terms of clash of civilizations is like trying to say that the reason Bisu and Savior fight is because Bisu plays Protoss, and savior Zerg, which to an outsider who has never seen starcraft in his life can assume, but the real conflict is much deeper than that, so deep that Huntington needs to get off his high ass and sit down and do some thinking which doesn't involve grabbing the first thing that surfaces the mind.
On January 04 2009 08:50 purgerinho wrote: israeli scum... they are like nazis and i hope they will end just like nazis..
You can't seriously compare Hitler's manufacturing "incidents" in order to invade neighboring countries and Israel's responding to rockets being fired on them from a neighboring state. I mean, rockets are being fired on you, how can you not respond? Hamas is not even a rogue terrorist organization operating in Gaza--they are are the Gazan government.
Even if you think that Israel's responses are out-of-proportion and wrong--and I understand that viewpoint, although it's much easier to criticize than to offer alternatives--your provocative-but-shallow analogies only degrade your argument.
Arab Identity" Mate you have been reading too much Zionist propaganda.
Thats a great point. People often make the case that the rest of the Middle East should just take the Palestinians as if they all have some inherent connection. The histories and cultures of middle eastern countries vary as much as those of European countries. Read The Arab Awakening to see the rise of arab nationalism. In short, "arab" (the term arab does not really even correctly apply to everyone in the middle east) culture was significantly diminished during the Ottoman empire. At the turn of the 19th century people in Syria bagan to revive arab culture through organizing social meetings and spreading literature. As a social movement this gained a lot of momentum and spread throughout the region. This happened to happen simultaneously with the influx of a Zionist presence in Palestine, so there were 2 competing social movements, one of arabs attempting to reestablish a seemingly lost vibrant culture, and the other of zionist attempting to create a safe haven for jews in the diaspora (primarily Russia). I think the zionist have used that to create the impression of a larger middle eastern unity that really does not exist.
We see that in this thread as Locke. says that the Palestinians could just pack up and go to "one of the other 57 muslim countries", as if Islam was a singular strain of culture and identity, and nation states are anything but self centered. Even Israel experienced cultural problems as jews around the world migrated to Israel and the Ashkenazi jews began looking down upon the Sephardi jews, essentially because of cultural differences.
the reality of Gaza. The shit we don't get to see. The shit that makes saying "gaza deserved it" much harder to say. Its much harder to face when you actually watch the aftermath of such an attack. I dont care who broke the fucking truce, im sure it was both sides. The world should demand absolutely nothing less than a ceasefire from both countries, especially israel.
On January 04 2009 13:17 HeavenS wrote: The world should demand absolutely nothing less than a ceasefire from both countries, especially israel.
How can you have "both" and "especially" in the same sentence? Unless you mean to include the possibility of one country's ceasing fire even as the other continues, but that seems unrealistic to me.
Meh...if there is such a suggestion that israel is such a western-backed nation...then what would make you think that the NYT would publish information discrediting their allies?...
EPT
