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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:26 HnR)hT wrote: Hrm, if only this entire "community" were put on a boat and sent on a one-way trip to Africa, where they could celebrate "diversity" as obnoxiously as they like for the rest of their horrible lives. >  racist ban imo | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
The republicans have earned negative coverage. The fact that the media only has the balls to crucify them during election season is a tragedy, not a demonstration of bias. The fact is, the policies began by Reagan along with the vast horrors of the Bush administration give license to any media outlet to skewer the Republicans as much as they like. The fact is - most of the Western world has realized that conservatism is an INVALID philosophy. The "conservative" parties in European countries are as liberal as our "liberal" party here (though the Democrats are hardly liberal) and their "liberal" parties are truly liberal. American conservatism is rooted too heavily in the idea that it can legislate Christian THEOLOGY - which in turns leads to crusades to enact laws that protect no one, but only protected the beliefs of Christians. A great example is gay marriage. Banning gay marriage only protects the beliefs of Christians, it doesn't actually protect society - whereas banning murder obviously protects everyone in the society. Christian Conservatism is flawed beyond any semblance of validity. Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. It's astronomy vs astrology, it's chemistry vs alchemy. So I would heartily ENCOURAGE a liberal "bias" in the press, as it would indicate that the press is thinking for itself, demanding facts, demanding logic, demanding SUBSTANCE - as it should. | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
This says a lot about you. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:47 Louder wrote: Bush received a much higher percentage of favorable coverage in both his elections vs Gore and Kerry than his opponents did. Sources or it didn't happen. Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. /facepalm | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:47 Louder wrote: Liberal media bias is a falsehood. Nobody called the media at large the "liberal mainstream media" until Fox News (aka Faux News) started screaming it. Bush received a much higher percentage of favorable coverage in both his elections vs Gore and Kerry than his opponents did. The republicans have earned negative coverage. The fact that the media only has the balls to crucify them during election season is a tragedy, not a demonstration of bias. The fact is, the policies began by Reagan along with the vast horrors of the Bush administration give license to any media outlet to skewer the Republicans as much as they like. The fact is - most of the Western world has realized that conservatism is an INVALID philosophy. The "conservative" parties in European countries are as liberal as our "liberal" party here (though the Democrats are hardly liberal) and their "liberal" parties are truly liberal. American conservatism is rooted too heavily in the idea that it can legislate Christian THEOLOGY - which in turns leads to crusades to enact laws that protect no one, but only protected the beliefs of Christians. A great example is gay marriage. Banning gay marriage only protects the beliefs of Christians, it doesn't actually protect society - whereas banning murder obviously protects everyone in the society. Christian Conservatism is flawed beyond any semblance of validity. Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. It's astronomy vs astrology, it's chemistry vs alchemy. So I would heartily ENCOURAGE a liberal "bias" in the press, as it would indicate that the press is thinking for itself, demanding facts, demanding logic, demanding SUBSTANCE - as it should. ^^^^^^WIN^^^^^^ | ||
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Sadist
United States7307 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:58 Savio wrote: Sources or it didn't happen. /facepalm could you explain why you are a social conservative? I know you are mormon, so Im assuming it has to do with your religion. | ||
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sith
United States2474 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:47 Louder wrote: Liberal media bias is a falsehood. Nobody called the media at large the "liberal mainstream media" until Fox News (aka Faux News) started screaming it. Bush received a much higher percentage of favorable coverage in both his elections vs Gore and Kerry than his opponents did. The republicans have earned negative coverage. The fact that the media only has the balls to crucify them during election season is a tragedy, not a demonstration of bias. The fact is, the policies began by Reagan along with the vast horrors of the Bush administration give license to any media outlet to skewer the Republicans as much as they like. The fact is - most of the Western world has realized that conservatism is an INVALID philosophy. The "conservative" parties in European countries are as liberal as our "liberal" party here (though the Democrats are hardly liberal) and their "liberal" parties are truly liberal. American conservatism is rooted too heavily in the idea that it can legislate Christian THEOLOGY - which in turns leads to crusades to enact laws that protect no one, but only protected the beliefs of Christians. A great example is gay marriage. Banning gay marriage only protects the beliefs of Christians, it doesn't actually protect society - whereas banning murder obviously protects everyone in the society. Christian Conservatism is flawed beyond any semblance of validity. Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. It's astronomy vs astrology, it's chemistry vs alchemy. So I would heartily ENCOURAGE a liberal "bias" in the press, as it would indicate that the press is thinking for itself, demanding facts, demanding logic, demanding SUBSTANCE - as it should. Spoken like a true lefty. Seriously, who was the idiot who started the idea that all conservatives are radical christians and vice versa. I know many christians, though I wouldn't identify myself as one. None of them oppose gay marriage. None of them want religion in the government. Some of them, GASP FOR AIR, are LIBERALS. AND HOLD YOUR BREATH, BECAUSE SOME CONSERVATIVES I KNOW AREN'T CHRISTIANS!!!!! YES ITS TRUE!!!! Protip: Just because you see a small stereotyped section of radical Christianity on the news does not mean that 100% of Christians and conservatives are like that. | ||
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Sadist
United States7307 Posts
On December 07 2008 11:21 sith wrote: Spoken like a true lefty. Seriously, who was the idiot who started the idea that all conservatives are radical christians and vice versa. I know many christians, though I wouldn't identify myself as one. None of them oppose gay marriage. None of them want religion in the government. Some of them, GASP FOR AIR, are LIBERALS. AND HOLD YOUR BREATH, BECAUSE SOME CONSERVATIVES I KNOW AREN'T CHRISTIANS!!!!! YES ITS TRUE!!!! Protip: Just because you see a small stereotyped section of radical Christianity on the news does not mean that 100% of Christians and conservatives are like that. are you serious? I witness it first hand all the time. I work with a ton of conservative christians. My family is catholic and the church does not support gay marriage. They didnt support my sister having help to have children. It isnt a small stereotyped section. Whitebread middle america is deeply rooted in christianity and doesnt have a problem using it to form their political views. | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:47 Louder wrote: Liberal media bias is a falsehood. Nobody called the media at large the "liberal mainstream media" until Fox News (aka Faux News) started screaming it. Bush received a much higher percentage of favorable coverage in both his elections vs Gore and Kerry than his opponents did. The only discernible argument in here is that the liberal bias claim is false because... Fox News says it is true! I'm open to correction  The republicans have earned negative coverage. The fact that the media only has the balls to crucify them during election season is a tragedy, not a demonstration of bias. The fact is, the policies began by Reagan along with the vast horrors of the Bush administration give license to any media outlet to skewer the Republicans as much as they like. WHICH policies began by Reagan? And what specific conservative positions were so obviously discredited by the Bush years? You aren't even making sense: why the heck would the media only "have the balls" (as you put it) to attack Republicans during the election season, but not otherwise? This is not how you convince anyone who wasn't already a closed-minded liberal partisan. The fact is - most of the Western world has realized that conservatism is an INVALID philosophy. The "conservative" parties in European countries are as liberal as our "liberal" party here (though the Democrats are hardly liberal) and their "liberal" parties are truly liberal. Berlusconi? The nationalist parties all over Europe? Let's not exaggerate. In any case, it appears you are arguing that conservatism is false because much of Europe appears to think so. I guess you'd be arguing that Fascism is the way to go if it were 1942, using exactly the same logic. American conservatism is rooted too heavily in the idea that it can legislate Christian THEOLOGY - which in turns leads to crusades to enact laws that protect no one, but only protected the beliefs of Christians. A great example is gay marriage. Banning gay marriage only protects the beliefs of Christians, it doesn't actually protect society - whereas banning murder obviously protects everyone in the society. Christian Conservatism is flawed beyond any semblance of validity. One needn't be a Christian fundamentalist to understand that there is no such thing as "gay marriage". Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. It's astronomy vs astrology, it's chemistry vs alchemy. There's not one true statement in here. This is just complete nonsense. So I would heartily ENCOURAGE a liberal "bias" in the press, as it would indicate that the press is thinking for itself, demanding facts, demanding logic, demanding SUBSTANCE - as it should. In other words you want the mainstream media to push your own views onto the public. Also, it is worthwhile to note that you don't provide any evidence whatsoever, yet the post is instantly accepted by the liberal members of the forum (the same ones who would scream for proof and proceed nitpick any actual evidence if it were a conservative making equivalent claims)! | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On December 07 2008 10:47 Louder wrote: Liberal media bias is a falsehood. Nobody called the media at large the "liberal mainstream media" until Fox News (aka Faux News) started screaming it. Bush received a much higher percentage of favorable coverage in both his elections vs Gore and Kerry than his opponents did. The republicans have earned negative coverage. The fact that the media only has the balls to crucify them during election season is a tragedy, not a demonstration of bias. The fact is, the policies began by Reagan along with the vast horrors of the Bush administration give license to any media outlet to skewer the Republicans as much as they like. The fact is - most of the Western world has realized that conservatism is an INVALID philosophy. The "conservative" parties in European countries are as liberal as our "liberal" party here (though the Democrats are hardly liberal) and their "liberal" parties are truly liberal. American conservatism is rooted too heavily in the idea that it can legislate Christian THEOLOGY - which in turns leads to crusades to enact laws that protect no one, but only protected the beliefs of Christians. A great example is gay marriage. Banning gay marriage only protects the beliefs of Christians, it doesn't actually protect society - whereas banning murder obviously protects everyone in the society. Christian Conservatism is flawed beyond any semblance of validity. Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. It's astronomy vs astrology, it's chemistry vs alchemy. So I would heartily ENCOURAGE a liberal "bias" in the press, as it would indicate that the press is thinking for itself, demanding facts, demanding logic, demanding SUBSTANCE - as it should. Stupid teenager rant, imo. That depiction of conservatism is a straw man. Describing opposing stances as "departure from logic" simply means you've defined your own viewpoint as the "logical" one. Besides, you shouldn't judge people on their conclusions, but on their reasoning. Only then does it even make sense to criticize their logic (otherwise you haven't engaged it at all, and so how would you measure their logic?) | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On December 07 2008 11:21 sith wrote: Spoken like a true lefty. Seriously, who was the idiot who started the idea that all conservatives are radical christians and vice versa. I know many christians, though I wouldn't identify myself as one. None of them oppose gay marriage. None of them want religion in the government. Some of them, GASP FOR AIR, are LIBERALS. AND HOLD YOUR BREATH, BECAUSE SOME CONSERVATIVES I KNOW AREN'T CHRISTIANS!!!!! YES ITS TRUE!!!! Protip: Just because you see a small stereotyped section of radical Christianity on the news does not mean that 100% of Christians and conservatives are like that. You are stupid. First, I said nothing about "radical" Christianity. I'm not interested in analyzing the various types of Christians. I don't care what your religious beliefs are. It does not matter to me. We are all free to believe (or not believe) whatever we choose. By extension, we should all be free FROM BEING FORCED TO CONFORM TO THE BELIEFS OF A RELIGION THAT IS NOT OUR OWN WHEN THOSE BELIEFS ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF AN OBJECTIVE, UNIVERSAL MORAL - a point I made in my original post with the example of gay marriage / murder. See, I'm not attacking Christians for being Christian. I'm attacking Conservatives for their insatiable lust for forcing Christianity on everyone else in general, and for the other reasons explicitly listed in my original post. We can always go to evolution as a great example of how Conservatives and Christians substitute belief for fact. The overwhelming scientific consensus, based on evidence, is that evolution is not a theory but a fact. Christians (not every last one of them, obviously) want Intelligent Design taught as an alternative theory in school because they refuse to accept evolution as a fact - it doesn't conform to their beliefs. This is putting belief before fact. What would the public reaction be if the American Alchemist Society wanted alchemy taught as an alternative to chemistry? Or the Palm Reader's Union wanted astrology taught as a competing theory with astronomy? That would be dismissed immediately, as it should. But that won't happen with evolution/ID BECAUSE of the obvious, undeniable Christian foundation of Conservatism and the number of Americans who have been sheep herded into believing it. | ||
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
The republicans have earned negative coverage. Amen. | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
I'm very nearly reaching the point where I lose faith in the ability of our youth to rationalize the sum of the circumstances they're trying to argue and to relinquish the fight it is clear they have no lucid argument. PLEASE direct me to the nearest logical debate, because this thread sucks. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On December 07 2008 11:41 HeadBangaa wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2008 10:47 Louder wrote: Liberal media bias is a falsehood. Nobody called the media at large the "liberal mainstream media" until Fox News (aka Faux News) started screaming it. Bush received a much higher percentage of favorable coverage in both his elections vs Gore and Kerry than his opponents did. The republicans have earned negative coverage. The fact that the media only has the balls to crucify them during election season is a tragedy, not a demonstration of bias. The fact is, the policies began by Reagan along with the vast horrors of the Bush administration give license to any media outlet to skewer the Republicans as much as they like. The fact is - most of the Western world has realized that conservatism is an INVALID philosophy. The "conservative" parties in European countries are as liberal as our "liberal" party here (though the Democrats are hardly liberal) and their "liberal" parties are truly liberal. American conservatism is rooted too heavily in the idea that it can legislate Christian THEOLOGY - which in turns leads to crusades to enact laws that protect no one, but only protected the beliefs of Christians. A great example is gay marriage. Banning gay marriage only protects the beliefs of Christians, it doesn't actually protect society - whereas banning murder obviously protects everyone in the society. Christian Conservatism is flawed beyond any semblance of validity. Furthermore, liberalism is based on logic and fact and respect for human rights. Conservatism demands you reject logic and substitute faith, reject fact and substitute belief. It's astronomy vs astrology, it's chemistry vs alchemy. So I would heartily ENCOURAGE a liberal "bias" in the press, as it would indicate that the press is thinking for itself, demanding facts, demanding logic, demanding SUBSTANCE - as it should. Stupid teenager rant, imo. That depiction of conservatism is a straw man. Describing opposing stances as "departure from logic" simply means you've defined your own viewpoint as the "logical" one. Besides, you shouldn't judge people on their conclusions, but on their reasoning. Only then does it even make sense to criticize their logic (otherwise you haven't engaged it at all, and so how would you measure their logic?) That's laughable. It's anything but a straw man. Ask a Christian Conservative to have a debate with you about the big bang theory and how the universe was created. You'll generally get something along the lines of "there is no satisfactory explanation for how things were created, therefore God exists and created all things". This type of reasoning is why people thought leprosy was a curse from God, that fire was black magic, and that lightening bolts were thrown down by the hand of Zeus. Lack of a satisfactory explanation does not equal proof for the only available explanation. Belief before fact. Faith before reason. It's the standard by which theistic religions operate. To quote Stephen Roberts: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." It all comes down to this. It all comes down to logic vs faith, fact vs belief. It's simply not debatable. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 07 2008 02:30 FzeroXx wrote: Uh...rofl...no they don't. Do you realize that there is more negative press about Republicans because they do more illogical, stupid, fucking idiotic things? | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On December 07 2008 11:39 HnR)hT wrote: The only discernible argument in here is that the liberal bias claim is false because... Fox News says it is true! I'm open to correction WHICH policies began by Reagan? And what specific conservative positions were so obviously discredited by the Bush years? You aren't even making sense: why the heck would the media only "have the balls" (as you put it) to attack Republicans during the election season, but not otherwise? This is not how you convince anyone who wasn't already a closed-minded liberal partisan. Berlusconi? The nationalist parties all over Europe? Let's not exaggerate. In any case, it appears you are arguing that conservatism is false because much of Europe appears to think so. I guess you'd be arguing that Fascism is the way to go if it were 1942, using exactly the same logic. One needn't be a Christian fundamentalist to understand that there is no such thing as "gay marriage". There's not one true statement in here. This is just complete nonsense. In other words you want the mainstream media to push your own views onto the public. Also, it is worthwhile to note that you don't provide any evidence whatsoever, yet the post is instantly accepted by the liberal members of the forum (the same ones who would scream for proof and proceed nitpick any actual evidence if it were a conservative making equivalent claims)! The fact that I'll take the time to write a post doesn't mean I care enough to take the time to look up and cite the sources to things I know. Belief in liberal media bias requires a very limited grasp of what is reported by the media. Considering Faux News has the largest audience of any news outlet in America and is blatantly, flagrantly conservative and anti-liberal - and that you can trace the "public outrage" against liberal media bias in direct conjunction with the growth of Fuxed News - it is a simple conclusion to reach that there simply is no liberal media bias. "Reaganomics", trickle down economics (which I know didn't originate with Reagan but were certainly his belief), etc, are obviously proven invalid by modern concentration of wealth - concentration of wealth that exceeds what was present in the great depression - concentration of wealth that was considered the cause of the depression by the experts of the day. If you need me to spell out the details on the Bush "stuff", then you're too ignorant to be participating in ANY political discussion, ever. How does it not make sense that they would only make attacks in election season? The candidates themselves get away with saying things they could never say outside of a campaign. The same goes for the press. I've already answered in another response about my statements that you called complete nonsense. As for other western societies as example, we can take any number of metrics about those societies as "evidence" that their rejection of conservatism "works". Standard of living, low rates of poverty, availability and quality of education and healthcare, etc etc. Your statement about gay marriage indicates that you accept marriage by the biblical man and woman definition. Of course it's interesting because you will find Christians out there who would argue a case for gay marriage on the basis that marriage is a sacrament and that no man has the right to deny that to anyone. But whatever, stating that there is "no such thing as gay marriage" pretty clearly illustrates a belief based bias And... push my beliefs? Not necessarily. I'm not suggesting the media push "liberal" ideas on the public, so much as suggesting it bases it's reporting on the broader philosophies of liberalism - humanitarianism, factss as the basis for opinion, etc. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
Second of all, in attacking this straw man, you are weak. People have a religious right. Freedom of religion is the motto, not freedom from religion. It's someone personal decision to adhere to "reason before faith" and you can't judge a man for it. If you do, you oppose his religious rights. If someone chooses faith over reason, accusing him of being illogical is a moot point because by definition he does not subscribe to your paradigm of logic as defined by you, which requires a rejection of faith. I run into your world view pretty often, and it's always intriguing to see the proponents of "tolerance" (neo-tolerance) exercise their intolerance of "intolerance" (an opposing point of view). | ||
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