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Vote! 2008 and Exit Poll - Page 10

Forum Index > General Forum
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DrainX
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Sweden3187 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 10:22:02
November 04 2008 10:18 GMT
#181
On November 04 2008 16:21 OhThatDang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 06:45 Hans-Titan wrote:
On November 04 2008 04:53 Jumperer wrote:
2. john mccain of 2000 disagree.



Wow... I could've almost have seen myself vote for McCain 2000. Jesus man, what has happened to him in the last 8 years?



that girl looked like such a bitch

What a spoiled brat :D She lives in America where doctors earn a shitload more than in most countries and shes complaining about how her father has to pay more taxes than joe the plummer ^^? Its not even her own money ! :D "It's his money not the goverments!" Yuh ._. You live in a society. The money you earn is as much a construct of that society as the taxes you pay.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 10:38:28
November 04 2008 10:35 GMT
#182
Nobody likes paying taxes, but 30% of a $80,000 family income is more painful than 45% of a $350,000 family income. As McCain stated, the richer people tend to have Accountants that find loop holes and tax exemptions for them to pay less, while the more modest income family is less likely to take advantage of the same thing.

That said, I would prefer a situation where income tax is 0%, but there is a flat tax on consumption, say 25%, with no loop holes or exemptions. This would encourage people to save, and only tax people proporitionally more if they spend proportionally more. Economists generally agree a system like this is the ideal, but getting there is no easy task, since it involves significant reform, and people will have trouble adjusting to the higher prices of everything, even though they'll have more money to spend.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
November 04 2008 10:58 GMT
#183
I'm not American, but I recommend voting for Obama
Brood War loyalist
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
November 04 2008 11:48 GMT
#184
On November 04 2008 18:45 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 18:12 Wysp wrote:
what is the deciding factor in the decision to disallow gay people to adopt children? This is the question you wish to clash on

no it isnt. the question we clash on is gay marriage. he believes gay couples make less than ideal parents which is a mark against gay marriage(but only because it perverts the concept of heterosexual marriage, not for any meaningful reason). i do not know or care if they make good parents because i believe it is irrelevant to whether or not they should be allowed to marry.


dodge.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 04 2008 12:42 GMT
#185
what is wrong with you
being a fundamentalist includes illiteracy now?

you have not responded to this:
On November 04 2008 17:51 IdrA wrote:
the problem with that is that the sole purpose of marriage is not its role in the nuclear family and child rearing. marriage also has personal, social, and legal significance. those trump the connection marriage has to the nuclear family because it will have absolutely no practical affect on that given that, as you said, gay couples can already adopt. how on earth is the idea of marriage extending to include gay couples going to affect the functioning of the nuclear family in society? its not like all the straight guys are gonna be like 'fuck this we can go marry other guys now!' and abandon their wives and children.

the closed minded and christian conservative comments were off hand remarks that nothing to do with my arguments, i addressed everything you said, i dismissed things because they were wrong, not because of my perception of your general beliefs.

i did address it, i misinterpreted how you were using the argument,i thought you were worried that gay marriage would lead to more gay couples raising children, which may or may not be a bad thing. the fact that you're just worried about the idea of marriage being perverted is significantly more ridiculous and meaningless. but either way it is meaningless. it does come down to a civil rights issue. gay peoples right to equal treatment outweighs your right to think of marriage as a union between a man and a women, given that that whether or not the concept of marriage includes gays or not does not affect the real world in the slightest.
Show nested quote +

On November 04 2008 16:55 IdrA wrote:
i dont buy your 'ideal family unit' argument...i dont care. leave that up to sociological studies and whatnot.

Ahh, at least your posts make sense now.

ironically that means you dont understand what i was saying at all. my whole point was that the ideal family unit is entirely irrelevant because this is a wholly seperate issue.

you are the one "dodging"

and no it is not a dodge to refuse to debate the quality of gay parenting, neither of us have any factual support for our stances, i refuse to base judgement off of whether or not 2 men having sex makes me feel uncomfortable. that is not a point in your favor. blither on about the nuclear family all you want, its entirely irrelevant to gay marriage. which is what we're discussing.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7662 Posts
November 04 2008 12:45 GMT
#186
I did my duty.


No on 8.
No on republicans.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
November 04 2008 12:49 GMT
#187
I just came back from the polls, took us about 45 minutes to vote.

Obama, obviously.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7662 Posts
November 04 2008 12:50 GMT
#188
Btw idra, I hope with all these talk in this thread that you filed out an absente ballot... just in case right?
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 13:08:22
November 04 2008 13:07 GMT
#189
i dont live in california, all ive been talking about is the prop 8 thing

but yes i did, for obama. or rather against palin. i dont really know enough about either candidate to make an informed decision but obama sure as hell seems better and im absolutely sure she should not be one old mans heartbeat from the oval office.

and from what ive seen its pretty obvious mccain whored himself out to the neo cons
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
November 04 2008 13:08 GMT
#190
On November 04 2008 21:42 IdrA wrote:
what is wrong with you
being a fundamentalist includes illiteracy now?

you have not responded to this:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 17:51 IdrA wrote:
the problem with that is that the sole purpose of marriage is not its role in the nuclear family and child rearing. marriage also has personal, social, and legal significance. those trump the connection marriage has to the nuclear family because it will have absolutely no practical affect on that given that, as you said, gay couples can already adopt. how on earth is the idea of marriage extending to include gay couples going to affect the functioning of the nuclear family in society? its not like all the straight guys are gonna be like 'fuck this we can go marry other guys now!' and abandon their wives and children.

the closed minded and christian conservative comments were off hand remarks that nothing to do with my arguments, i addressed everything you said, i dismissed things because they were wrong, not because of my perception of your general beliefs.

i did address it, i misinterpreted how you were using the argument,i thought you were worried that gay marriage would lead to more gay couples raising children, which may or may not be a bad thing. the fact that you're just worried about the idea of marriage being perverted is significantly more ridiculous and meaningless. but either way it is meaningless. it does come down to a civil rights issue. gay peoples right to equal treatment outweighs your right to think of marriage as a union between a man and a women, given that that whether or not the concept of marriage includes gays or not does not affect the real world in the slightest.

On November 04 2008 16:55 IdrA wrote:
i dont buy your 'ideal family unit' argument...i dont care. leave that up to sociological studies and whatnot.

Ahh, at least your posts make sense now.

ironically that means you dont understand what i was saying at all. my whole point was that the ideal family unit is entirely irrelevant because this is a wholly seperate issue.

you are the one "dodging"

and no it is not a dodge to refuse to debate the quality of gay parenting, neither of us have any factual support for our stances, i refuse to base judgement off of whether or not 2 men having sex makes me feel uncomfortable. that is not a point in your favor. blither on about the nuclear family all you want, its entirely irrelevant to gay marriage. which is what we're discussing.

bigot.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 04 2008 13:10 GMT
#191
fuck you
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
November 04 2008 13:18 GMT
#192
I'm being facetious, relax.

Actually I completely agree with this guy (from some blog):

On November 04 2008 17:15 Not_Computer wrote:
Ah, this is such a touchy topic I don't know how to go about it without being offending to someone out there. But here's my opinion:

Garriage.

It's not "marriage" but it's just as special. In fact, its so special that it's not the same word as marriage! The couple are still entitled to all the nuts and bolts of marriage but adjusted appropriately so that its for the same sex.

There's still that special union, still that special pact, still the same expectations of domestic abuse and divorce (though actually Garriage would probably have statistically lower of these). Now you won't have to worry about uncivilized and uneducated co-workers asking you who your "wife" is if you're married to your husband and vice versa. You won't have to hear all the religious cries about how it's crossing over into the holy matrimony of the pencil being put into the pencil sharpener and how putting the pencil tip on the eraser end is a sin.

Sure it isn't what most homosexuals are after, but why do we have to change the definition for something that's existed for so many centuries and millenia.

(note: not to be confused with "garage".)


I thought about it, and my main problem is with the semantic change. I think it's culturally coercive. Give that type of union its own name, and voila, I'm a happy camper.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7468 Posts
November 04 2008 13:20 GMT
#193
On November 04 2008 22:08 HeadBangaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 21:42 IdrA wrote:
what is wrong with you
being a fundamentalist includes illiteracy now?

you have not responded to this:
On November 04 2008 17:51 IdrA wrote:
the problem with that is that the sole purpose of marriage is not its role in the nuclear family and child rearing. marriage also has personal, social, and legal significance. those trump the connection marriage has to the nuclear family because it will have absolutely no practical affect on that given that, as you said, gay couples can already adopt. how on earth is the idea of marriage extending to include gay couples going to affect the functioning of the nuclear family in society? its not like all the straight guys are gonna be like 'fuck this we can go marry other guys now!' and abandon their wives and children.

the closed minded and christian conservative comments were off hand remarks that nothing to do with my arguments, i addressed everything you said, i dismissed things because they were wrong, not because of my perception of your general beliefs.

i did address it, i misinterpreted how you were using the argument,i thought you were worried that gay marriage would lead to more gay couples raising children, which may or may not be a bad thing. the fact that you're just worried about the idea of marriage being perverted is significantly more ridiculous and meaningless. but either way it is meaningless. it does come down to a civil rights issue. gay peoples right to equal treatment outweighs your right to think of marriage as a union between a man and a women, given that that whether or not the concept of marriage includes gays or not does not affect the real world in the slightest.

On November 04 2008 16:55 IdrA wrote:
i dont buy your 'ideal family unit' argument...i dont care. leave that up to sociological studies and whatnot.

Ahh, at least your posts make sense now.

ironically that means you dont understand what i was saying at all. my whole point was that the ideal family unit is entirely irrelevant because this is a wholly seperate issue.

you are the one "dodging"

and no it is not a dodge to refuse to debate the quality of gay parenting, neither of us have any factual support for our stances, i refuse to base judgement off of whether or not 2 men having sex makes me feel uncomfortable. that is not a point in your favor. blither on about the nuclear family all you want, its entirely irrelevant to gay marriage. which is what we're discussing.

bigot.

Who isn't a bigot?
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Showtime!
Profile Joined November 2007
Canada2938 Posts
November 04 2008 13:28 GMT
#194
On November 04 2008 18:12 Wysp wrote:
what is the deciding factor in the decision to disallow gay people to adopt children? This is the question you wish to clash on, but you haven't even clashed on it yet. I want to see some blood spilled by your guys' clashing of generalizations and psychological theories on why this is appropriate or inappropriate.

I'll look for scientific studies though, peer verified, of course.


There have been a number of studies on this in Canada and if I remember correctly the 'nucleus' is hardly affected.

They are just as capable raising a good family.
Mini skirt season is right around the corner. ☻
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2686 Posts
November 04 2008 14:12 GMT
#195
On November 04 2008 15:30 mindspike wrote:
For CultureMisfits - Yes Palin is that stupid



well.... i did admit she is pretty stupid, and i must admit its hard to defend her haha....
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 14:22:43
November 04 2008 14:20 GMT
#196
Years ago, McCain spoke at my graduation.

It was not pleasant.

Can't vote anyway, I'm a convicted felon
returns upon momentous occasions.
NastyMarine
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1252 Posts
November 04 2008 14:20 GMT
#197
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/voter.hotline/

Figures that most problems/complaint calls are from republican and toss-up states. Its a fucking shame that it feels certainly scandalous.
Treatin' fools since '87
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
November 04 2008 14:25 GMT
#198
On November 04 2008 23:12 CultureMisfits wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 15:30 mindspike wrote:
For CultureMisfits - Yes Palin is that stupid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FbJv8gnFsk


well.... i did admit she is pretty stupid, and i must admit its hard to defend her haha....

I don't see what was so bad about that. We don't know what question was asked, and she's just saying that our US based oil should be sold to US markets (it won't.)
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32160 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 14:32:28
November 04 2008 14:27 GMT
#199
On November 04 2008 22:18 HeadBangaa wrote:
I'm being facetious, relax.

Actually I completely agree with this guy (from some blog):

Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 17:15 Not_Computer wrote:
Ah, this is such a touchy topic I don't know how to go about it without being offending to someone out there. But here's my opinion:

Garriage.

It's not "marriage" but it's just as special. In fact, its so special that it's not the same word as marriage! The couple are still entitled to all the nuts and bolts of marriage but adjusted appropriately so that its for the same sex.

There's still that special union, still that special pact, still the same expectations of domestic abuse and divorce (though actually Garriage would probably have statistically lower of these). Now you won't have to worry about uncivilized and uneducated co-workers asking you who your "wife" is if you're married to your husband and vice versa. You won't have to hear all the religious cries about how it's crossing over into the holy matrimony of the pencil being put into the pencil sharpener and how putting the pencil tip on the eraser end is a sin.

Sure it isn't what most homosexuals are after, but why do we have to change the definition for something that's existed for so many centuries and millenia.

(note: not to be confused with "garage".)


I thought about it, and my main problem is with the semantic change. I think it's culturally coercive. Give that type of union its own name, and voila, I'm a happy camper.


Come on dude, you're really gonna vote yes over semantics?!?! =[

THINK OF THIS MAN

[image loading]


I agree that a nuclear family is ideal, but we gotta deal with reality. Gay parents can make just as capable parents, and, in most situations, adoption agencies would give a kid to a good family, not some fucked up one.

Do the right thing dude!!!

PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
mindspike
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Canada1902 Posts
November 04 2008 15:15 GMT
#200
Vote people, vote.
zerg/human - vancouver, canada
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