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Is banning worth it? - Page 4

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Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
October 24 2008 06:22 GMT
#61
I have on more than one occasion chosen to not click the post button after writing a post due to it being something I thought would get me banned/get a new user banned, so I think the banning on TL does set an example, at least for me.
L!MP
Profile Joined March 2003
Australia2067 Posts
October 24 2008 06:31 GMT
#62
To put it simply, without any moderation or banning, this place could potentially turn into 4chan. By weeding out garbage, you either piss them off enough to leave entirely or they will come back in a more sane frame of mind or perhaps on a short lived anger streak. Either way, everyone is left to see what being a dick gets you and what remains is mostly decent posts. I truly believe people are cameleon like, so when there's only high quality posts on a forum you can expect the general population to at least try and post quality. So yeah, banning does make a difference in a good way, on this forum at least..
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-24 16:55:41
October 24 2008 06:31 GMT
#63
- of course at times people will refuse to follow common social rules and leave a forum no other recourse but to ban and exclude - but I will argue that banning ultimately is failure for any forum aspiring growth and developement.. I know it might be hard concept to follow through for some but you can actually do without banning in the vast majority of cases simply by using other approaches that promote more positive and inclusive attirbutes in all of us..
- anyway the main problem with banning is not with banning itself.. banning is nothing more than just one more forum moderation tool.. the real problem with banning is with its application: if you have a retard moderator, banning will always be a negative influence on the forum and will only hurt the forum in the long run etc.. banning is as good or as bad as the moderator's wisdom and criteria doing the banning.. (in fact good moderators usually moderate by setting a higher example and tend to avoid banning unless left with no other option).
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
October 24 2008 06:37 GMT
#64
On October 24 2008 04:01 Fumanchu wrote:
the only reasons i can see now to ban someone is because of power, spite, and to set an example. the only problem is setting an example is not needed. the people on this site who want to continue posting, and continue to get a good reputation with their posting aren't going to throw that away with a bannable post. they already know the norm of what is acceptable. and the people that get banned usually know why they got banned and don't give a care. i've never heard of someone being emotionally crushed because they were banned from something.


The reasons you listed
Power, by power do you mean admin power? you are saying one of the reason is because the admins have the power to ban people therefore they just ban without a reason?

spite, by spite do you mean emotionally attached to someone's words over the internet? and then use that admin power to repair the hurted feelings?

set an example, so that others will never post anything that cause emotional "spite" toward the admins?

I see a correlation between all three of the reasons you gave, and since you said the ONLY reasons meaning you base on these reasons to create your 3000 banned people on dota. which your yourself is the role of admin in your dota banlist.

This correlation between all three of your reasons for banning people provided that you are acting in the role of admin, which is "IT IS ALL ABOUT YOURSELF "

and you dare use your self-fish reasons to compare to teamliquid admins'?

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, you don't care about all the thousands who were banned before you because they are not "emotionally crushed", it's all about yourself (maybe you are emotionally crushed?).

you made this post after you got banned and try to show the admins that you can still post here, so why bother banning.

Did I get it right?

let me guess your possible response to my post:
1) you flame along the lines of me = stupid
2) ignore my post
3) attempt to construct a sound argument and have a manner debate

I'm guessing it's either 1 or 2. prove me wrong plz
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
The Storyteller
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
Singapore2486 Posts
October 24 2008 07:43 GMT
#65
Um... if banning is useless because they come back, then prison should be abolished because most of those guys in jail are going to get out again.

If your main point is that anyone can get around a ban, that is true. But it takes a lot of effort to keep finding a new IP to make a new account, more than most people would take just to be jerks.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
October 24 2008 07:45 GMT
#66
Banning is 1000% worth it.
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
October 24 2008 07:53 GMT
#67
lol ive never been banned, and i've made quite a few raging flame posts but they were all justified.

banning takes away the incentive to post useless things. with the stream of new-comers and a lot of chan people too i think, banning helps keep the sanity of TL.
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Manowarrior
Profile Joined May 2007
United States159 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-24 07:54:31
October 24 2008 07:54 GMT
#68
Surely it keeps out all those weird people.

Bah, didn't know I made a 100th post.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28910 Posts
October 24 2008 12:00 GMT
#69
ludwig feuerbach wanted me to post this


Fumanchu (Original Post):

FYI-- Unsure of what the point was about your wc3/dota banlist--disregarding.

You say banning on TL seems pretty pointless because they can still post. [This logically says, the point of banning is to stop them from posting--if it does not do this, then it does nothing.]

Following this, you conclude that there must be some point to banning [right] when you try to look for what the point could be. You list several potential points then shoot them down. However, with this approach you will never prove it is pointless, only that we know no point of it (but there may still be one, yet undiscovered). This is where your post goes.

You say these are the only reasons you can think of [assuming you are inviting others to propose others if they know them]: power, spite, and to set an example. FYI To be honest I can't follow the connection between the sentences in your third paragraph. I do not see clearly what you mean by power; and if I analyze it a bit, spite seems to be a pretty empty saying too--they are angry so they ban you. That's a description of the emotion, not the reason or purpose or "point." When you are angry, say you swing a bat at someone. The point is to destroy them, in such a case. You believe the bat does something--it's not pointless. So you see how "spite" to me does not seem to describe the real "point"--the point is that you believe the result will happen, the point is the intended result--i.e., making someone lose the ability to post on their account, having to make a new account [surely you concede that this is what happens from a ban on TL]. Therefore, what you are really saying is that making someone do this whole thing is actually pointless. You are perhaps saying it is negligable, that it does not perform any function for the site.

Others have responded that it at least slows down and deters many people; some have said the bans they have witnessed have changed how they posted. It seems to do something, and I have not been convinced that these things the bans clearly do, is pointless.

So this is my analysis of your first post. You sound like you are getting tired of banning what seems like an endless army of ban-needing people. I think you know though that there would be a difference if there was no banning at all, despite how hopeless it seems that the banning never does enough.

Hope this cheers you up. I'm interested in this conversation BTW because before I was banned from this site, I was someone who frequently adocated the banning of particular members. Since being banned I have come to take a softer stance on banning. But I hardly see it as pointless, which is what this topic is about. It's a death sentence within the universe of this site, at least within the universe of your identity--it would be like if you were in an online political forum and you were Bill Clinton but you couldn't tell anyone, compared to in RL where you can (that's the difference between being banned and not ever being banned)--obviously that matters.

--dead man talking
Moderator
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
October 24 2008 12:02 GMT
#70
haha well... Lol kwark... dunno what to say about this :O
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
October 24 2008 12:18 GMT
#71
Banning is good. It's kinda like a form of government regulation.
Brood War loyalist
jjun212
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada2208 Posts
October 24 2008 12:49 GMT
#72
Temporary Bans are worth it

I got temporary banned for saying "GG no RE" after a post.



I have never said that again until now.
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6184 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-24 13:50:56
October 24 2008 13:49 GMT
#73
you have 8 posts. obviously you have been banned.

Of course it is worth it. Even tho you can go and create new account you have to find a new IP, register again, create new nick and set's your post count to 0. At least it is a good punishment and maybe you learn something from it
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
October 24 2008 15:14 GMT
#74
I'd rename this topic into "Is PERMAbanning worth it?".

Because tempbanning is perfectly reasonable.
However PERMAbanning is like completely 'imbalanced' to put it that way. It doesn't offer a realistic crime-punishment balance.

If you draw a parallel between real life and crime punishments, permaban would be a deathpenalty.

Now you name me one thing a person can do on TeH internetz that requires this cyber-TL-deathpenalty.

He can't kill(ban) anyone else. He can't take any of your possesions.

The only possible reason would be if someone insults someone in a very bad bad way.

But we see permabans for to petty reasons like a bad thread made.

I'd go exclusively with tempbans, preferably with explanations on why a person got the penalty. Then it's a corrective measure which is what bad posters need.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44381 Posts
October 24 2008 15:24 GMT
#75
On October 25 2008 00:14 niteReloaded wrote:
I'd rename this topic into "Is PERMAbanning worth it?".

Because tempbanning is perfectly reasonable.
However PERMAbanning is like completely 'imbalanced' to put it that way. It doesn't offer a realistic crime-punishment balance.

If you draw a parallel between real life and crime punishments, permaban would be a deathpenalty.

Now you name me one thing a person can do on TeH internetz that requires this cyber-TL-deathpenalty.

He can't kill(ban) anyone else. He can't take any of your possesions.

The only possible reason would be if someone insults someone in a very bad bad way.

But we see permabans for to petty reasons like a bad thread made.

I'd go exclusively with tempbans, preferably with explanations on why a person got the penalty. Then it's a corrective measure which is what bad posters need.

Killing people is wrong because they have a right to life. Permabanning people isn't wrong because they don't have a right to teamliquid. Your analogy fails. This is our house. We can kick people out and stop them coming back in.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
October 24 2008 15:29 GMT
#76
Do you have the doors on your house open so that anyone comes in?

Your analogy fails. If this was a house - it'd be an invite-only style forum.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44381 Posts
October 24 2008 15:33 GMT
#77
On October 25 2008 00:29 niteReloaded wrote:
Do you have the doors on your house open so that anyone comes in?

Your analogy fails. If this was a house - it'd be an invite-only style forum.

Then it's a library. Anyone can come in but if you start being too noisy then they can ban you for the common good. My point is people don't have a right to it. Banning isn't morally wrong.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
October 24 2008 15:37 GMT
#78
And what do you need to do in order to get banned for life from a library?

I'm pretty sure you can get away with pretty much everything untill you start causing some cardinal shit. If you are simply being a naughty boy by talking loudly, you'll be warned at least a few times before any concrete action.
---

It's not even about having rights or not.

It's about what are you trying to acomplish by permabanning someone.
You just want to ban a person out of pleasure? I dont think so.

You want him to stop 'behaving' badly. I'm not sure permabanning is the best solution, and just having the permaban button doesn't mean you need to press it just coz you can.
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-24 17:00:52
October 24 2008 16:58 GMT
#79
On October 25 2008 00:24 Kwark wrote: This is our house. We can kick people out and stop them coming back in.
It is actually not your house and there is very little "we" going on when it comes to banning.
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
October 24 2008 17:00 GMT
#80
Note that we now have 30 and 90 Day bans so permanents will probably decrease significantly.
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