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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
Beside calling McCain a "borderline senile", what do you make of Christopher Hitchen's point of Obama being more to the right on the issue of Pakistan and putting the USA on a path to more war than his supporters typically realize. Edit: I should have mentioned Christopher Hitchen is a Republican and a supporter of the war in Iraq. | ||
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boghat
United States2109 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
Kinda weird | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
http://www.funnyordie.com/jokes/4c2ccba2c1 | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 25 2008 11:55 Doctorasul wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKUxCVf56KA Beside calling McCain a "borderline senile", what do you make of Christopher Hitchen's point of Obama being more to the right on the issue of Pakistan and putting the USA on a path to more war than his supporters typically realize. Edit: I should have mentioned Christopher Hitchen is a Republican and a supporter of the war in Iraq. Hitchens is a liberal who supported the war in Iraq for non-WMD related reasons and he's a pretty brilliant journalist. With that said, he doesn't know what the foreign policy with Pakistan will be like but understand we're already semi-invading the region and it's a scary prospect. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On October 25 2008 11:55 Doctorasul wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKUxCVf56KA Beside calling McCain a "borderline senile", what do you make of Christopher Hitchen's point of Obama being more to the right on the issue of Pakistan and putting the USA on a path to more war than his supporters typically realize. Edit: I should have mentioned Christopher Hitchen is a Republican and a supporter of the war in Iraq. I wish the interviewer had interrupted him less... he was making sense and not dodging questions. I think Obama is a pragmatist who will never rule out any tool at his disposal. He won't definitely carry out operations in Pakistan, but he reserves the right to, as commander in chief. Eventually, Pakistan may refuse to act on intelligence that terrorists are operating within their borders despite economic and diplomatic pressure, but Obama might still refuse to go in if the costs outweigh the benefits. | ||
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 25 2008 12:16 The Storyteller wrote: I wish the interviewer had interrupted him less... he was making sense and not dodging questions. I think Obama is a pragmatist who will never rule out any tool at his disposal. He won't definitely carry out operations in Pakistan, but he reserves the right to, as commander in chief. Eventually, Pakistan may refuse to act on intelligence that terrorists are operating within their borders despite economic and diplomatic pressure, but Obama might still refuse to go in if the costs outweigh the benefits. Pakistan already does avoid it. Pakistan's intelligence agency is in bed with the Taliban while the rest of their military seems to be ruthlessly "pro-West." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence#Controversies I don't know nearly enough about everything that's gone on there, including the AQ network, but it's likely more fucked up than anywhere else. And then you throw in that they have nuclear weapons and their 5,000 year enemy has nuclear weapons. Happy fun time! | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 25 2008 12:18 Doctorasul wrote: Ok, it looks like he's got major disagreements with both Democrats and Republicans, but he describes himself as a "democratic Socialist", so I guess you're right. So is it fair to view McCain as the more peaceful choice between the two candidates? It seems weird to me, given their temperament, but do their policies justify that view? There's absolutely no question that Obama has been more hawkish UP FRONT about Pakistan. We have no idea if it's a bluff or not, though. I think I've made it pretty clear in this thread that I think Pakistan is a much larger issue than Iran, so in that sense McCain has been more peaceful but he's doing it towards the wrong country. BTW I suggest everyone watch all of Hitchens videos on youtube. Not only does he stand up to O'Reilly/Hannity, but he's also gone after Mother Theresa. ^^ Oh, and he gave the finger to Bill Maher's audience. | ||
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boghat
United States2109 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
Obama's talking to countries without preconditions is a bit of semantics. His point is that there's no point talking if you've already resolved the issues. Then the talks are a PR exercise. But he does agree that talks should have an AGENDA. So to him, talking to Pakistan with preconditions would be talking to them after they'd agreed to disarm and root out terrorism, and talking to Pakistan with an agenda would be talking to them about disarming and rooting out terrorism. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
lol... So biased... Seriously though, this is why I just can't support McCain. I used to think that he was a pretty good guy, but the way he's been running his campiagn doesn't seem like the way he sold himself earlier. He doesn't seem to be able to get everyone unified and fighting in one direction. One thing I admire about Obama is that he runs a very tight campaign. People whom he feels might upset his message he tries to keep at a distance (Clintons) and you almost get the sense that everything that is said goes through him first. If McCain can't even run his campaign the way he wants to, how is he going to run the country the way he wants to? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Democratic officials tell Politico that they plan to file a Federal Election Commission complaint on Monday accusing the McCain campaign of being “a serial violator” of campaign finance laws. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3653401 | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On October 25 2008 13:55 zer0das wrote: This really doesn't have much to do with the campaign, but there was an interesting article on Obama on ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3653401 hahaha cute article | ||
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Choros
Australia530 Posts
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Choros
Australia530 Posts
On October 25 2008 11:33 Jibba wrote: Ok, in that case 100% of the population is psychopathic. Well done, Choros. Again you are wrong. The point is that some people are born with a fundamental part of themselves which feels compassionate to others and some do not. It is estimated perhaps 25% of all people are psycopaths. In terms of international politics i think in fact most nations are not 'realist' however a few important ones are i.e the United Sates China and Russia. Because they are realist all nations must respond in a realist way to them however there are many examples or 'liberal' nations in the world today but they can only operate when there is not a major power interest. | ||
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Choros
Australia530 Posts
On October 25 2008 11:49 The Storyteller wrote: 46%! How much do you have to earn to pay that much?! I thought the whole idea of a flat tax was to minimise bureaucracy so overall, everyone paid less tax! The fact is that a flat tax rate is a bad thing because it is an unequal tax (also the benefit of minimising bureaucracy is overcome by the fact that a progressive taxation system increases the efficiency of spending). If I can afford 50 dollars I will spend every last cent as opposed to a millionaire who as a proportion does not spend jack. A progressive taxation system is a way to redistribute wealth. Fuck the selfish cunts who are all like oh this is my cash no one deserves it bar me, the fact is that the lower your income the most economic benefit is achieved per dollar you spend. Not only is taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor ethically the right thing to do but also it benefits your economic system at the same time. If you United States did not so ruthlessly take from the average Joe and give to a select few then they would not be in the situation they find themselves in today,on the brink of total economic collapse on a systemic level which would in turn lead to the collapse of the American empire. If they want to fix their problems they must strengthen their progressive taxation system, take that money from the rich and give it to those who would spend it best, this money will increase demand in the economy and it will 'trickle up' the rich will benefit along side everyone else and this is the only way to lead to a long term economic up swing. The United States has a system which says that it is the land of opportunity, anybody no matter their social standing can rise up to greatness. Therefore if you are rich it is because you have worked hard to be there and if you are poor it is because you are a lazy slack fucking barstand who deserves no help from anybody and you deserve any bad cumupence. In shorter terms if you are rich it is because you deserve it, if you are poor it is because you did not try hard enough. This is a total false hood, perhaps if schools were equal in educational standards regardless of wealth then it would be true but this is not the case. This misconception has been taken up by the poor who believe it is their own fault they are so poor. This has allowed the United States to treat their populace worse than any western nation since the French revolution. I believe Obama has the capacity to rise above such intrenched inequalities and return the United States to the path of prosperity but those who argue effectively for Laissez Faire-ism should be rigorously opposed. | ||
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Choros
Australia530 Posts
On October 25 2008 11:55 Doctorasul wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKUxCVf56KA Beside calling McCain a "borderline senile", what do you make of Christopher Hitchen's point of Obama being more to the right on the issue of Pakistan and putting the USA on a path to more war than his supporters typically realize. Edit: I should have mentioned Christopher Hitchen is a Republican and a supporter of the war in Iraq. Well I don't think that Obama is putting the United States on the path to more war, ofcourse Afghanistan is far worse than many people realise and in fact the United States a couple weeks back sent their first land attack (they went in on helicopters but whatever) and the immediate response from even renowned neutralists was that if America did so again they would put their full support behind the Taliban which would involve hundreds of thousands of troops joining the fighting and western forces would probably loose in a very short space of time being totaly over run their advantages of mobility would be neutralised as Taliban forces would be able to attack many points simultaeneously,it would be redicoulsly bloody and we would loose it is as simple as that. The United States I believe used this attack as a test case, it got a bad response and America has not done similar actions since (clearly they are not completely mad.). The point is that regardless of the president Afghanistan will be one hell of a mess. The most important fact in terms of the path to more war is Iran. Obama will talk to Iran and he will be able to settle disagreements with stunning ease imo as Iran has always been willing to negotiate it is the United States which has prevented it. McCain is a hawk who intends to kick Russia out of the G8 which reminds me of the United States exclusion of Japan in the naval disarmament agreement preceding world war two. McCain also advocates isolating Iran and only talking to them under the precondition that they agree with anything that America dictates in advance. This will not work. It will push Russia further down the militant path, it will push Iran even more into the Russia-Chinese alliance. It may serve as the foundations of world war three. This man in the video is a republican supporter, and even he sees the deficiencies of Republican policies effectively across the board, but his proposition that Obama will lead to wider war is false. All Obama has done is point out where the major problems are (mostly Afghanistan other than Russia etc) and given a clear commitment to negotiate. You mark my words McCain will lead the United States to more war, wars that America simply cannot afford. | ||
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