EPTKnight vs. Samurai - Page 17
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IzzyCraft
United States4487 Posts
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bp1696
United States288 Posts
On July 28 2008 10:52 shinigami wrote: "In any martial art, it's proven that no amount of technique beats pure raw manly strength." Raw power is always more valuable than technique. In Super Robot Wars, the super robots win vs real robots. (power vs technical) In boxing, those with natural high power naturally dominate the agile boxers. In arm wrestling, technique doesn't matter at all. It's pretty much natural selection. Muhammed Ali. Not that I voted for samurai, but your generalizations are spurious. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11548 Posts
Samurai is also a very broad term for a large amount of Japanese soldiers at the time. They could range from being unskilled, to extremely skilled. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 28 2008 13:52 FragKrag wrote: People underestimate the power of steel plate armor. It is virtually impenetrable to any kind of sword. I don't care if your katana can cut through a tank, it can't cut through plate armor. Later variants of plate armor were effective against arquebus shots at close range, while being only 70 lbs. Samurai is also a very broad term for a large amount of Japanese soldiers at the time. They could range from being unskilled, to extremely skilled. I will bet you $5000000 a katana that can cut through a Challenger 2 tank can cut through plate armor. And as far as skill goes, the range of knight skill is probably greater than samurai skill. Samurai still had training as warriors, while many knights were simply nobility. | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
That being said, since medieval plate was near-impervious, a cutting edge such as that of a katana would do very little against it; using a heavier, duller blade to break the bones underneath would be far more efficacious. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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shinigami
Canada423 Posts
Added: Or alternatively, he just pew pews laser from his eyes to melt the hilt. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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IzzyCraft
United States4487 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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kramus
United States1259 Posts
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dinmsab
Malaysia2246 Posts
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On July 28 2008 13:52 FragKrag wrote: Samurai is also a very broad term for a large amount of Japanese soldiers at the time. They could range from being unskilled, to extremely skilled. This bears repeating. Knights were elite heavy cavalry and nobility. They were a tiny portion of the population. Samurai were about 5% of the population of Japan. There were lots of them. They weren't rare or elite, and a lot of them were landless and poor. Many of them were illiterate, boorish, unskilled, and poorly equipped. They often lived the lives of bandits, waging war for the chance to loot and rape, and commonly rebelled or turned traitor for a chance at greater profit. Samurai are more properly comparable to European men-at-arms, a category which included knights, but also many other non-noble soldiers who were nonetheless dedicated to a single lord and enjoyed high status in society, and often had hope of promotion to knighthood if they served well in battle. Samurai from the Edo period barely deserved to be called warriors at all, for all of their posing as such and veneration of the sword. The Edo period was a peaceful time, and a time of xenophobic totalitarian oppression. The samurai were stripped of their lands and paid a salary. They wielded their weapons mainly against unarmed peasants, and had the right to do so for any reason. They were thugs of the government, walking symbols that sudden death waited for anyone who stepped out of line. Their own lives were in constant danger from their superiors as well, and they could be ordered to commit suicide for trivial misconduct or suspicion of disloyality (although this wouldn't always save their families or subordinates, refusing to commit an ordered suicide was a good way to get one's family and friends executed as well as yourself). This is the time when they gained a reputation for being cultured. Since they had no real work, fought no wars, received salary, and were not permitted to engage in industry or commerce, they wasted their time on idle amusements such as poetry, tea ceremony, and flower arrangement. In this manner, they faded to irrelevance, were replaced by a modern military, and eventually lost all privilege of rank. The romantic ideal of the samurai is only that. Few of them lived up to it. The same can be said of the knight, but knights were a more select, elite, and wealthier group than samurai, and accordingly, the average knight was held to a higher standard, and less likely to be in an unfortunate situation that made bad behavior attractive. | ||
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IzzyCraft
United States4487 Posts
On July 28 2008 15:09 koreasilver wrote: Westerners absolutely overestimate the Japanese katana. I blame all those people watching crappy Japanese shows *There are good Japanese shows frankly ionno what they are but good movies i know lol* and think that nijars are super cool TT like the people that believe MA are absolutely great when everyone knows good grappling beats any form of ma! Wanna know something that nice little shiny part of the blade is a show of how poor quality metals katanas where made of. It's not for ascetics well now it is but back then its cuz good quality iron to form steel if the guy was lucky was hard to come buy so you use higher quality stuff for the point and just stock shit for the backing. FAIL kid i think we call this natural selection... I know we had a thread of this kid lol but ionno where it is. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Therefore, knights win. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On July 28 2008 15:44 MYM.Testie wrote: There are no Samurai in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series. Therefore, knights win. Well played Sir. We should remake the poll: Knights, Samurai, or Oberyn Martell | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On July 28 2008 15:57 Funchucks wrote: Sandor Clegane voted "samurai" (even though he had never heard of them before). Man I really want to go reread this series again. In the meantime, I'll just continue my nightly "Hurry-the-fuck-up-and-finish-the-next-one" prayer. | ||
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Muey
Finland149 Posts
On July 28 2008 14:14 Last Romantic wrote: That being said, since medieval plate was near-impervious, a cutting edge such as that of a katana would do very little against it; using a heavier, duller blade to break the bones underneath would be far more efficacious. Swords are not bludgeoning weapons and are not to be used as such, or said sword will most likely turn into an unusable heap of scrap way faster than intended. Not to say you can't do physical bashing with it, but ultimately the sword is a precision-made tool for cutting & thursting, and thus is constructed & balanced with this usage in mind. If you want to bash armor, you need to pick up a warhammer, mace, morning star or other blunt weapon created for the very purpose, because no sword was ever made with the intent to bash armor, and therefore no sword exists that would be good at it. Pure logic should already state this if you sit and think about the weapons for a minute - bashing weapons in general are top-heavy to give the wielder more power behind their hit, where as a good longsword will have a center of balance roughly at the handguard, as to so allow as easy handling as possible, for with a cutting & thursting weapon you need not use much as force against your target because the blade will do the extra work for you, and thus fast and good handling is to be preferred over raw physical impact strength. Of course, there were swords that had been tailored for use against plate mail - but these were long, thick, diamond-shaped rods instead of the usual flat blade you picture with a sword, with dull edges and and a sharp point, and were made for the purpose of puncturing through vulnerable parts in the armor, not to bash it open or cause damage to the target through physical shock damage. Even the "big" twohanders that popular fantasy likes to decipt as huge swingaxes made for doing large sweeping motions cutting anything in their path are anything but that - Unlike the popular image, in reality twohanders were relatively light-handled for a two-handed weapon, seldom weighting over 8 pounds, and their primary usage in warfare was to cut swaths through pikemen formations, rather being a weapon of choice for open infantry melees. | ||
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