INTRODUCTION Inspired by deadhaji's Top 100 Game Music thread, I bring you TL.net's very own List of All-Time Greatest Game Songs. Everyone please feel free to contribute as much as you want to; in a sense, this is your list. A simple comment like "I like that song" is good enough; you don't have to nominate/approve songs to post here. The purpose of this list is to serve as a prime reference for those who are already fans of game music, and to inspire those who are not, to become ones.
I recommend just listening to one song in the background while you browse TL.net, do your homework, relax, etc. I'm certain you'll find at least one song you will want to save on your iPod for listening to on the bus, work, school etc.
Thanks for reading, and enjoy!
For the most up-to-date list check, the last page of this thread (could be on 2nd last sometimes).
If you want to embed YouTube videos please do so within spoilers, to avoid clutter (or use hyperlinks). Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you wish to approve/nominate songs, please read SONG NOMINATING/APPROVAL PROCEDURE & RULES and follow the appropriate format before posting. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SONG NOMINATING/APPROVAL PROCEDURE & RULES - For instructions on how to nominate or approve a song (or songs) click the spoiler below: + Show Spoiler +
1. Before posting your selections, you must copy and paste the warning message to notify others that you are going to be modifying the list (use the one in the spoiler on the bottom of the list). This is so no one makes changes to the list before you finish updating the list.
2. Quote the most recent list (usually somewhere on the last page on this thread)
3a. APPROVING: If your song is already on the list, raise the number on the left hand side of the song by one, and record at the bottom of the post what song you approved. 3b. NOMINATING: If your song is not already on the list, add it to the list by clicking the link button at the top of the text box. Add the link, and name the song (if you do not have a link, don't worry about it, but try your best to find one so others can listen). The link should appear at the bottom of the text box. Finally, add the song, alphabetically to the list, and record at the bottom of the post what song you nominated.
4. Don't forget to remove the QUOTE tags once your finished.
- If you are the 10th person to approve a song, place the song in the list of "All-Time Greatest Game Songs"!
Rules are simple really: (1) Unlimited nominations (2) Unlimited approvals, except: (a) You can't approve a song you nominated (b) You can't approve a song more than once
If you have any ideas that would improve the format of the list, feel to modify the list accordingly. Just make sure to post a comment about the change you made, so others are aware, and they don't think that your change is an error.
METHODOLOGY OF THE LIST The methodolgy of this list is different from the one used in haji's thread, since as many people have already mentioned the way the list is made makes it prone to miss songs that are awesome but may not be as well known, and is biased towards RPGs and recent games. But I find the biggest problem with that list is the fact that it ranks songs from 1-100, which with so many great songs you simply cannot do.
So I propose instead that we create the list using a "Hall of Fame" approach, where people nominate songs, then 10 other people must approve the song, at which point it goes into an unordered list of greatest game musics.
If the previous was not clear, the list may look something like this: ---------------------------------------------------- <All-Time Greatest Game Songs> Chrono Cross - Time's Scar Starcraft - Terran 1
<Nomination List> (4) Final Fantasy 3 - Tina's Theme (1) Star Fox - Corneria (9) Metal Gear Solid 3 - Main Theme -----------------------------------------------------
Let's say the next person who posts Approve: "Star Fox - Corneria", "Metal Gear Solid 3 - Main Theme" Nominate: "Super Mario Galaxy - Good Egg Galaxy"
The list will then look like this. ---------------------------------------------------- <All-Time Greatest Game Songs> Chrono Cross - Time's Scar Starcraft - Terran 1 Metal Gear Solid 3 - Main Theme
<Nomination List> (4) Final Fantasy 3 - Tina's Theme (2) Star Fox - Corneria (1) Super Mario Galaxy - Good Egg Galaxy -----------------------------------------------------
This also solves the problem of someone having to count all the posts, since each person can add to the list by simply quoting the post by the person above him.
As far as how the nomination procedure should go, my opinion is that there should be no restrictions on how many songs you can nominate/approve, other than that you cannot approve your own song, and you cannot approve a song more than once. Of course there is no way to enforce this, but let's try to be honorable to maintain the integrity of the list.
Finally, when you nominate a song, try your best to include a simple link to the song, as follows: Chrono Cross - Time's Scar Rather than embed a YouTube video, as this thread may get awfully long. MP3 direct download links, would be the most awesome.
The Settlers 1! It's music ROCKED. Totally. I've spent countless hours playing this alone or vs / co-op my father, hell, even with my sister, and I could never grow tired of the music.
Approved: None yet - I may edit this later when I have time to watch the videos. I'm sadly unfamiliar with most of these games. Added: The Settlers 1 game theme
edit 2: edited out the youtube vids on OP's request. But still, be sure not to miss listening to the theme for a few mins, it is very relaxing
I'm sorry fusion, I was doing it separately as I didn't want to screw up - rather editing it. I hope it's fine now. Feel free to ask me to correct it if I made some mistake.
On April 12 2008 05:22 Naib wrote: I'm sorry fusion, I was doing it separately as I didn't want to screw up - rather editing it. I hope it's fine now. Feel free to ask me to correct it if I made some mistake.
Its fine. When you want to approve or nominate another game, make a new post, dont edit the old one. Also, youtube videos clutter up the thread a bit.
On April 12 2008 05:22 Naib wrote: I'm sorry fusion, I was doing it separately as I didn't want to screw up - rather editing it. I hope it's fine now. Feel free to ask me to correct it if I made some mistake.
Its fine. When you want to approve or nominate another game, make a new post, dont edit the old one. Also, youtube videos clutter up the thread a bit.
Thanks for formatting it though!
Yes, I got a PM from the OP to edit it out, and it's done now I just wanted to make sure people actually do click on it, and that's easier with at least 1 YT video directly posted. But I agree, it clutters, so it's gotten rid of now Maybe I'll just repost it in the April's YT thread.
Just want to say, Chrono Cross has without question the BEST game sound track i have ever heard, i have the entire thing and every song is quite amazing. I have played many many games in my life and this by far has one of the best overall and individual sound tracks and songs EVER.
Approved: Nominate: Chrono Cross - Dream of the Shore Bordering Another World [When I want to chill, I chill to this song]
Just want to say, Chrono Cross has without question the BEST game sound track i have ever heard, i have the entire thing and every song is quite amazing. I have played many many games in my life and this by far has one of the best overall and individual sound tracks and songs EVER.
I totally agree, but Chrono Trigger is still my all time favorite, not necessarily because it is better (they are equally epic), but because of sentimental value.
Approved: Nominate: Betrayal at Krondor - The Merchantile
Betrayal at Krondor is a really old-school PC RPG, but still remains one of the best in terms of storyline and gameplay, even though the graphics are horrible compared to modern RPGs (actually they were pretty bad even during its time) and the music is MIDI. The game is free to download and play. Google it if your interested, or PM me. I'll be nominating some more songs when I have more time.
Approved: Legend Of Zelda - Main Theme (SSBB Remix) [A classic made even better] Nominate: Final Fantasy X-2 - Eternity: Memory of Lightwaves (I just love this song, perfect blend of piano and synthesizer. Does anybody know any songs similar to this style? Doesn't have to be from games.)
Fixed "Starcraft - Terran Theme" to "Starcraft - Terran 1"
The youtube link I sent is a straight midi rip from the game and it still sends shivers down my spine when I listen to it despite the quality. I highly recommend browsing http://www.ocremix.org/ if you want to listen to better quality versions of some of the older video game music out there. There are entire albums full of remakes for video games and some of the remixes are incredibly well done, like this one for chrono trigger Chrono Symphonic. You can browse the entire album and listen live via your browser from that link or torrent the whole thing (brand free since it's all fan made). Darkest Omen, beneath the surface and the rising are a must for all fans.
On April 12 2008 07:29 Ghin wrote: whats the music for the frozen sea or whatever in chrono cross called because i dont want to play that piece of shit again to hear it again
Lol. I hear you. I am not sure what song you are specifically referring to but you can go hear and listen (and download) all the CC songs to your heart's content.
On April 12 2008 07:34 ZaplinG wrote: Can I vote for Mega Man 2 - Dr. Wily's Stage 1 without quoting everything again? I didn't see it on there the first time I made my post ^^
Approved: Nominate: Chrono Trigger - To Far Away Times
I provided two links. The main link is to the actually MIDI version in the game. The second link is to a fan-made arrangement of the song which is really amazing.
On April 12 2008 07:29 Ghin wrote: whats the music for the frozen sea or whatever in chrono cross called because i dont want to play that piece of shit again to hear it again
Lol. I hear you. I am not sure what song you are specifically referring to but you can go hear and listen (and download) all the CC songs to your heart's content.
If its a remix that appears in another game then it is ok, otherwise, I dont know. You could nominate it, but it might or might not be removed later :O
On April 12 2008 08:33 Cogito wrote: Remixes are fine if they are officially found in other games (e.g. Super Smash Bros Brawl) just labeled them as such. However, for fan remixes, just add a link to the remix like in the case of "Chrono Trigger - To Far Away Times"
---------------------------------------------------------------------- <Greatest Game Music of All-Time> None so far...
On April 12 2008 09:20 Freezard wrote: This list is gonna be huge... problem?
no, its alphabetized, and songs will generally be added pretty slowly
after a while, songs that have only one vote will start to be ignored as trials, and most people will just listen to 4-5 high ranked songs that they dont already know....
so its important to listen to a whole bunch of songs now, while the list is still small.
Thing is many of the most voted are taken from the top 100 list already. Can't we at least have songs not from that list? I mean all of those 100 songs are good and well worth a listen, but maybe we should try push forward other songs, more songs.
On April 12 2008 09:20 Freezard wrote: This list is gonna be huge... problem?
Problem in what sense? In the sense that it will get to bulky, I was thinking of maybe putting it inside a spoiler. In the sense that too many songs may be a bit overwhelming to some, you have a point, but personally I like the fact that the list will be huge, because then I always have new songs to listen to. For others who just want to hear the best songs, that's where the approval system kicks in.
On April 12 2008 09:28 Freezard wrote: Thing is many of the most voted are taken from the top 100 list already. Can't we at least have songs not from that list? I mean all of those 100 songs are good and well worth a listen, but maybe we should try push forward other songs, more songs.
As far as "pushing" other songs that are less popular, that's actually my ultimate goal: finding the hidden gems. If they are really good, it might just take some time for them to reach the "Greatest" list, but I'm sure eventually they will (assuming this works out).
The next person to quote the list should rename "(2) Final Fantasy III - Atma Weapon" to "(2) Final Fantasy VI - Atma Weapon" to be consistent. (III to VI)
Edit: Nevermind, I'll do it myself and approve a few. One sec...
Approved: Chrono Cross - Time's Scar Nominated: Final Fantasy VI - The Decisive Battle
Also renamed "Final Fantasy III - Atma Weapon" to its proper name: "Final Fantasy VI - The Fierce Battle". Anyone who's not sure which one is which can just check out the Youtube link .
Turrican II can be played with winUAE, an amiga emulator. You have to get the OS rom and the .adf (game disk files). Don't remember where I got it once upon a time..
I'm not gonna nominate any more tunes personally, but there are some other gems out there.. + Show Spoiler +
Approved:: Final Fantasy VI - The Decisive Battle (I love this song, could never remember the name though, but now I know. ) Nominated:: Final Fantasy VII - Still More Fighting (Of course, I can't approve that song, without nominating this one)
Too much stuff to think about, just throwing two out there. I think a lot of music is better, or at least is better in context with the actual game, and that the list is bound to heavily favor memorable (i.e. melody-driven, often catchy) pieces.
Chrono Trigger - To Far Away Times (I guess, not even my favorite from that game)
Too much stuff to think about, just throwing two out there. I think a lot of music is better, or at least is better in context with the actual game, and that the list is bound to heavily favor memorable (i.e. melody-driven, often catchy) pieces.
Which song from Chrono Trigger is your fav?
Your right. There are a lot of good songs that are good only within the context of playing the game, and that this list is biased in favor of melody-driven pieces. But I don't see that as a bad thing, because this list is more geared towards a general audience, who most likely haven't played less popular games, and so will be hesitant to approve a context-specific song from it, that is not melodic or catchy in any way. What will end up happening is the list will be saturated with songs with only one nominations. I guess it would be more accurate to label the title of the thread "Greatest Melodic Songs from Games of All-Time".
Approved:: Nominated:: Chrono Trigger - World Revolution, Super Mario Galaxy - Good Egg Galaxy, Little Big Adventure 2: Twinsen's Odyssey - Main Theme, Tetris - Main Theme
If you listen to just one song, listen to "Little Big Adventure 2: Twinsen's Odyssey - Main Theme". The name of the game is kinda wierd, and the graphics are kinda wierd too, but for those who have played it know its jewel in the desert sand.
Chrono Trigger - To Far Away Times (I guess, not even my favorite from that game)
Too much stuff to think about, just throwing two out there. I think a lot of music is better, or at least is better in context with the actual game, and that the list is bound to heavily favor memorable (i.e. melody-driven, often catchy) pieces.
Which song from Chrono Trigger is your fav?
Your right. There are a lot of good songs that are good only within the context of playing the game, and that this list is biased in favor of melody-driven pieces. But I don't see that as a bad thing, because this list is more geared towards a general audience, who most likely haven't played less popular games, and so will be hesitant to approve a context-specific song from it, that is not melodic or catchy in any way. What will end up happening is the list will be saturated with songs with only one nominations. I guess it would be more accurate to label the title of the thread "Greatest Melodic Songs from Games of All-Time".
Also, it only need 10 votes right now to get into hall of fame, so even the less known ones still have a pretty good chance
Also, it only need 10 votes right now to get into hall of fame, so even the less known ones still have a pretty good chance
Exactly. I made the point earlier that if the song is actually good, it might take longer to get inducted into the hall, but it will get there eventually.
I was wondering if it was a good idea to maybe put the most popular game music such as those in the Chrono series and Final Fantasy series in there own separate spoiler/category so that they don't overshadow other songs?
Approved:: Mega Man 2 - Bubbleman (Soap and Water OC Remix) Nominated:: Castlevania SOTN: Dances of Pales, Castlevania SOTN: Lost Paintings
Changed "Donkey Kong Country 2 - Stickerbush Symphony (BRAMBLES)" to "Donkey Kong Country 2 - Stickerbush Symphony (Bramble Blast Stage)". Fusion I know you originally nominated this song, so your welcome to change it back if you don't like my revision.
Wow, that Bubbleman remix is sick! I love the buildup to the sudden explosion of synthesizer and beats. I am going to check out the site that remix is from, but in the meantime any three remixes from there you highly recommend?
Edit - Approved "Chrono Trigger - Undersea Palace". Doh. Don't know how I missed that one. And why no love for Star Fox - Corneria? One of my favorite tunes of all time.
I really only have the mega man 2 remixes and a couple earthbound ones, but the top 3 from those minus the soap and water would have to be, listed in order from best to worst:
Wind Shear - Airman remix (I could listen to the 8-bit Airman theme all day) Too Hot for Heatman - Heatman remix The Fifth Season - Ending and Title theme remix (A slower paced one. Good as background music)
But most of everything on that site is really good
no i think my foolishness in making edits may have messed it up. i added one to both :O
edit - no you're right, i just didn't add it. i will be updating the list in a few minutes (replying with the list i mean). been listening to some more tunes.
Thanks IzzyCraft, you spotted and fixed the desync. Mora wait till IzzyCraft is finished making his changes before adding yours, or else the list may be desynched again.
edit - I think he's finished. Are you?
In the future, if your editing the list, just post a short message when you start and when you finish so other know so that they don't make changes before/after you do.
1) it is 30 seconds long and yet never gets boring 2) it's style of composition essentially places it as neo-classical 3) thanks to a combination of 1 and 2, nintendo has managed to come up with 500 different varations of the same 30 second song 4) everyone knows it, everyone also knows the mario song too but that song is rather silly in comparsion
if you picked a random person who knew nothing about video gaming nearly 100% of the list is unidentifable
On April 13 2008 02:53 Zanno wrote: this is pretty easy actually it is the zelda song
1) it is 30 seconds long and yet never gets boring 2) it's style of composition essentially places it as neo-classical 3) thanks to a combination of 1 and 2, nintendo has managed to come up with 500 different varations of the same 30 second song 4) everyone knows it, everyone also knows the mario song too but that song is rather silly in comparsion
Yeah, in retrospect the thread title is deceiving because were not actually trying to determine THE greatest song, but rather the GREATEST songs. So certainly the Zelda song is one of the greatest, but there are certainly others that are just as great.
Note to admin/anyone: How do I change the thread title? I would rather change it to "List of All-Time Greatest Game Songs" than its current form. Thank you in advanced
havent you already nominated Megaman2 -Metalman stage once?
Its already in the list, people will vote for it if they like it
PS. I really reccomend listening to Xenogears - Remember. I used to play the game and leave it on that scene for ages just so I could listen to the music
I don't think so fusion. I think the only other post I made in this thread was about FF6 - The Phantom Forest.
And yes, Xenogears is awesome. My favourite is probably "Shevat - The Wind is Calling" and "Fuse"
edit: but I see metalman is already in the list, nm then! sorry edit2: i'm just retarded, I didn't even realize this was a whole new thread, I thought it was this thread
On April 13 2008 05:04 fusionsdf wrote: havent you already nominated Megaman2 -Metalman stage once?
Its already in the list, people will vote for it if they like it
PS. I really reccomend listening to Xenogears - Remember. I used to play the game and leave it on that scene for ages just so I could listen to the music
I just listened to it, and its the same song as "Xenogears - Small Two of Pieces", except no vocals. Did you happen to listen to that song fusion?
Approved: Xenogears - Remember (music box), Chrono Trigger - Memories of Green, Sealed Door Nominated: Star Fox - Corneria
Man I love the Corneria theme. I especially love the little gibberish your co-pilots mutter, how their voices are slightly different. The fan's piano rendition is pretty awesome too. Check it out.
If you want to nominate songs be sure to add them to the current list, that way it won't get lost as other people makes posts. I'll do it for you this time, but next time please make sure you follow this procedure. Thanks.
If you want to nominate songs be sure to add them to the current list, that way it won't get lost as other people makes posts. I'll do it for you this time, but next time please make sure you follow this procedure. Thanks.
Approved: Chrono Cross - Dream of the Shore Bordering Another World, Chrono Cross - Time's Scar, Chrono Trigger - Frog's Theme, Chrono Trigger - Main Theme, Donkey Kong Country 2 - Stickerbush Symphony (Bramble Blast Stage), Final Fantasy VIII - Eyes On Me, Mega Man 2 - Dr. Wily's Stage 1, Metal Gear Solid 2 - Main Theme, Tetris - Main Theme, Xenogears - Remember (music box), Xenogears - Small Two of Pieces Nominated: Chrono Cross - Radical dreamers, Xenogears - Ship of Regret and Sleep, Xenogears - June Mermaid, Xenogears - Shevat, the Wind is Calling, Guilty Gears X2 - Be Just or Be Dead
Isn't "Xenogears - Remember (music box)" really called "Xenogears - Faraway Promise"? I didn't change it in case I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure I'm right. Also, I couldn't find links to the original versions of Ship of Regret and Sleep or June Mermaid, but those sound good enough I think. How did no one mention Radical Dreamers by the way?!
Done updating. The list is getting pretty long. To anyone who tries to update, make sure you make note of what you are approving, so you don't have to cross check the last post afterwards to remember what you changed, lol.
On April 13 2008 08:23 geno wrote: Done updating. The list is getting pretty long. To anyone who tries to update, make sure you make note of what you are approving, so you don't have to cross check the last post afterwards to remember what you changed, lol.
Good advice.
Also, "Xenogears - Remember (music box)" is entitled "Xenogears - Faraway Promise". Good spot.
This thread is awesome by the way. I'm just clicking so many of these links.. going to have to compile a playlist of a great lot of these when a lot start making it out of the nomination list.
Honestly you posted 2 brawl songs. Most of the songs on brawl should make it on the list they did a really good job with the music on that game. But if I were to suggest an older song that's I always loved when I played Mario RPG: (Smithy's Servants Boss Music)
On April 13 2008 08:54 geno wrote: This thread is awesome by the way. I'm just clicking so many of these links.. going to have to compile a playlist of a great lot of these when a lot start making it out of the nomination list.
Absolutely. I have a program that can extract MP3s from Youtube vids, so I was thinking of making of torrent of all the songs in the hall of fame list once it reaches a sizable amount.
On April 13 2008 09:07 Amber[LighT] wrote: Honestly you posted 2 brawl songs. Most of the songs on brawl should make it on the list they did a really good job with the music on that game. But if I were to suggest an older song that's I always loved when I played Mario RPG: (Smithy's Servants Boss Music)
If you feel there are songs not on the list, its in your power to add them. But there is over 30+ songs on SSBB so that might take you some time, and I doubt you have the patience to do that seeing as you didn't even bother to read the four basic rules of this thread, one of them which says do not post embedded YouTube videos in this thread.
Sorry for being rude, but it keeps happening so I am just using you as a whipping boy.
I can update the list again with more approvals (or nominations) as long as I'm not double voting correct? I'm listening to a lot of these songs that I didn't originally recognize, and some deserve more votes.
On April 13 2008 09:45 geno wrote: I can update the list again with more approvals (or nominations) as long as I'm not double voting correct? I'm listening to a lot of these songs that I didn't originally recognize, and some deserve more votes.
On April 13 2008 09:47 FzeroXx wrote: Wind Nocturne (The Boat Song) Lunar Silver Star Story
Kingdom Hearts I/II (Yeah, the whole thing)
Kakariko Village's Zelda (Don't see this on list)
F-zero Opening Theme / Mute City
Joke!:
Big Blue Dress - World of Warcraft remix
Just off the top of my head.. I don't know how to do the formatting stuff.
For future reference, I updated the introductory post with detailed instructions on how to format the list. So for anyone who doesn't know how to format, look there.
Approved: Castlevania - Wicked Child, Chrono Trigger - Past Overworld Theme, Chrono Trigger - Sealed Door, Chrono Trigger - Undersea Palace, Final Fantasy VI - The Decisive Battle, Final Fantasy VII - Jenova Theme (Black Mages Version), Final Fantasy VIII - The Oath, Final Fantasy X - To Zanarkand, Legend Of Zelda - Main Theme (SSBB Remix), Star Fox - Corneria (SSBB Remix), Starcraft - Terran 1, Wizards and Warriors - Intro Nominated: Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time - Gerudo Valley (Another one I can't believe was forgotten!)
First thing, you have to wait until the previous poster (geno) says they are finished before you modify the list because your list did not take into account his selections.
Second, place it alphabetically. So "Final Fantasy X - Auron's Theme" comes before "Final Fantasy X - To Zanarkand", not after.
Other than that, good stuff. I will make the correction.
On April 13 2008 09:47 FzeroXx wrote: Wind Nocturne (The Boat Song) Lunar Silver Star Story
Kingdom Hearts I/II (Yeah, the whole thing)
Kakariko Village's Zelda (Don't see this on list)
F-zero Opening Theme / Mute City
Joke!:
Big Blue Dress - World of Warcraft remix
Just off the top of my head.. I don't know how to do the formatting stuff.
I'll format it for you
for kingdom hearts if you want it to be included, you'll have to give me some specific songs
for kakariko village, which zelda you mean would help
Add:
Bioshock Main theme A Link to the Past - Kakariko Village Final Fantasy X - Silence Before the Storm (Blindfolded Pianist version) KH2 - Passion / Sanctuary KH - Hikari / Simple and Clean KH2 - Dive into the heart KH2 - The 13th Struggle KH2 - Organization XIII KH2/FF7 - One Winged Angel (seriously, this isn't on there?) -- KH2 - Dearly Beloved
Approved: Street Fighter II - Guile Stage Nominated: Donkey Kong Country - Aquatic Ambience, Donkey Kong Country - King K.Rool's theme, Super Mario RPG - Geno's Woods
I think we should combine the remixes with originals like was done with the Chrono Trigger - To Far Away Times (End Credits), as well as the ones I've just added. This would mostly affect those that have a SSBB Remix (Stickerbush Symphony and Corneria). As long as a link to preferred or just good remixes is provided (like the indent style already used), I don't think its a big deal if they are combined and their votes added together.
Actually, for Corneria, Cogito had a vote in both the SSBB and original versions, so I'll keep the collective votes for that at 3. I have no idea what was happening at the beginning of this thread, pre-organization, so I cannot tell if the same is true for DKC2's symphony, so I'll leave that as is (doesn't really matter if they both can make it to 10 votes anyways)
Approved: Chrono Cross - Time's Scar, Chrono Cross - Radical Dreamers ~Without Taking the Jewel~, Command & Conquer Red Alert - Hell March, Xenogears - Shevat, the Wind is Calling Nominated: Final Fantasy IX - Battle 1, Final Fantasy IX - A Face Unforgotten, Final Fantasy IX - You Are Not Alone
Because i so badly want to nominate and approve songs, I included Arceus votes in, except the last 4 since every link is a youtube one, and those were downloads. Hope its alright with everyone.
I approve: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night - Lost Paintings Final Fantasy X - To Zanarkand Final Fantasy X-2 - Eternity: Memory of Lightwaves Mega Man 2 - Bubbleman Stage
On April 13 2008 14:37 fusionsdf wrote: well we normally allow it, but Im not so eager to add 6 songs for one game thats not known for music.
Chances are, most of them are at best average.
Yeah, i wasn't sure what to do, so i put it in the list. I didn't want to seem lazy and let somebody else do the formatting for my nominations and approvals. Should i re-update the list? I'd love to be able to contribute to this topic a little more.
I think the intimidating formatting is what keeps a lot of people away from the thread. Which is a shame of course, because this is already an awesome thread (some of this music is so good/nostalgic).
So if there are more people updating the formatting so that every person doesn't have to redo the list every time, the thread would probably be more successful. As long as there are at least 4 or 5 people who know how to do the formatting and can update it every now and then with the posts that took place between, I bet this thread could get more attention. So go ahead and re-update the list!
Why no pikmin =[ If anyone's played any pikmin game they are awesome. I added "The Waterwraith is Coming!," "The Distant Spring," "Titan Dweevil," and "Wistful Wild" into the nomination list. <Nomination List> + Show Spoiler +
Edit 1: Missed Arceus approval on Time's Scar, now it has the correct number of votes. Edit 2: Still did not add Arceus links [non-youtube]. Edit 3: Added myrmidon2537's approvals and nomination. Edit 4: Added Umbrella's nominations and approvals. Alphabetized.
Xenogears needs some love! Maybe I'm just nostalgic for how good the game was, but I think some of those songs are among the best video game songs ever.
WTF is wrong with you ppl! i can't believe no one has mentioned the tetris theme yet and wtf is Final Fantasy mention so many times, its a just sack of emo shit if you ask me.
On April 13 2008 19:35 haduken wrote: WTF is wrong with you ppl! i can't believe no one has mentioned the tetris theme yet and wtf is Final Fantasy mention so many times, its a just sack of emo shit if you ask me.
On April 13 2008 19:35 haduken wrote: WTF is wrong with you ppl! i can't believe no one has mentioned the tetris theme yet and wtf is Final Fantasy mention so many times, its a just sack of emo shit if you ask me.
"To Zanarkand" needs only one more approval until its enshrined in the hall forever! Its a song anybody can enjoy even if their not a FF fan (which by the way I am not, love the music, but not the games). But still there are a lot of other songs I would rather see go in the Hall ahead of it, like all the songs below it in the Top Approval list.
Approved: Mega Man 2 - Dr. Wily's Stage 1 Nominated:
I've been re-listening to that song and at first it didn't capture me (never was a mega man fan), but fortunately the link to the song includes game-play footage, cause I find it fits so well with the game, and after a while, I can see why the song is so memorable.
Also, surprised a Chrono Trigger songs have such low votes. Nobody like "World Revolution"? That's one of my favorite final boss songs.
There's just way too many good soundtracks... Many good songs already on the list, I have no idea what to vote for.
Here are some more games with plenty of songs worthy of adding, someone else can decide: - Planescape:Torment - Baldur's Gate series - Ultima 9 (IIRC) - World of Warcraft (never played, but great soundtrack) - Jade Empire (dito) - Outlaws - Dune 2000 ... and many games Jeremy Soule did the soundtrack for... Icewind Dale, NWN, Morrowind, Oblivion, Knights of the old Republic, ...
Edit 1 - I approve still alive Edit 2 - Enshrined Final Fantasy X - To Zanarkand to the greatest song list. (10th vote by teamsolid). Our first inductee. YAY! Edit 3 - Added teamsolid's approvals Edit 4 - Top approvals edit.
Alrighty guys. Hope this topic is still up when I wake tomorrow. Have fun nominating and approving!
Also Cogito, great topic you made. Sorry if I inducted the first song, i just noticed that you skipped over teamsolid's approvals. You can tell me if i'm doing a crappy job editting and stuff. i just love this topic.
On April 13 2008 08:54 geno wrote: This thread is awesome by the way. I'm just clicking so many of these links.. going to have to compile a playlist of a great lot of these when a lot start making it out of the nomination list.
Absolutely. I have a program that can extract MP3s from Youtube vids, so I was thinking of making of torrent of all the songs in the hall of fame list once it reaches a sizable amount.
I believe many/most of the songs on the list are available in their respective console music formats, e.g. the MP3 I uploaded for FF6 The Decisive Battle was made from the song's .SPC music file. IMO this is a much better way to make MP3s than ripping them from low-quality, mono (not stereo) Youtube videos. You just have to make sure you choose good playback settings (e.g. cubic interpolation) so that you get higher quality sound out of the .SPC/.PSF/etc. files. The Alpha2 SPC plugin and the "Highly Experimental" .PSF plugin for WinAmp work well, I've found.
Some songs, like Time's Scar or the Xenogears ones with lyrics, are not available in the console format (in this case, .PSF). I found MP3s for them elsewhere, though: let me know and I'll upload them for you.
Galbadia Hotel has good-quality MP3s for many games as well.
Edit: are fusion/wurm/Cogito managing the list now, or something? Seems like it with the "we don't allow this and that"-style posts.
I'll upload MP3s of the .SPCs of these songs when I get home. Also, I couldn't find a Youtube video of the SNES version of The Last Battle, so the GBA one will have to do.
Radiant Silvergun's soundtrack was composed by Hitoshi Sakimoto, who is known for other games' soundtracks, such as Vagrant Story. Apparently he worked on Final Fantasy XII's music as well.
Also Cogito, great topic you made. Sorry if I inducted the first song, i just noticed that you skipped over teamsolid's approvals. You can tell me if i'm doing a crappy job editting and stuff. i just love this topic.
Your doing a great job. Good pick up, on the induction of the first song, totally missed that.
Funny thing happen today. Well kind of. I read Bill's post a while ago about how he got the "Final Fantasy - The Decisive Battle" stuck in his head while taking an exam. I think reading that post influenced me because there was a 30 min delay from the start of the exam due to my genius professor overbooking a class, and so to pass the time I started thinking about that song, but when I finally had to write the exam, the song was stuck in my head! Fortunately (also unfortunately) the whole exam got canceled because apparently someone placed a "bomb" in the building. So my exam is now postponed to some future date, which really sucks because I was hoping on working on this list.
I believe many/most of the songs on the list are available in their respective console music formats, e.g. the MP3 I uploaded for FF6 The Decisive Battle was made from the song's .SPC music file. IMO this is a much better way to make MP3s than ripping them from low-quality, mono (not stereo) Youtube videos. You just have to make sure you choose good playback settings (e.g. cubic interpolation) so that you get higher quality sound out of the .SPC/.PSF/etc. files. The Alpha2 SPC plugin and the "Highly Experimental" .PSF plugin for WinAmp work well, I've found.
Edit: are fusion/wurm/Cogito managing the list now, or something? Seems like it with the "we don't allow this and that"-style posts.
Oh, I didn't know YouTube audio were mono. Is that for all YouTube video?
Originally, fusion and me were in sense the "admins" of this thread, since a lot of people were not following the most basic rules (e.g. no embedded Youtube vids, quote the list with your selections, etc.) But I don't want to give the impression that we are the only ones who can make modifications to the format of the list. Instead, my hope is that everyone who invested in this project, and wants to see it succeed will take personal ownership of the list, by sharing the burden of informing and assisting newcomers to this thread, and by making modifications to the list if they think it will improve it (e.g. geno's combination of remixes, wurm's addition of "Top approval list").
I believe many/most of the songs on the list are available in their respective console music formats, e.g. the MP3 I uploaded for FF6 The Decisive Battle was made from the song's .SPC music file. IMO this is a much better way to make MP3s than ripping them from low-quality, mono (not stereo) Youtube videos. You just have to make sure you choose good playback settings (e.g. cubic interpolation) so that you get higher quality sound out of the .SPC/.PSF/etc. files. The Alpha2 SPC plugin and the "Highly Experimental" .PSF plugin for WinAmp work well, I've found.
Edit: are fusion/wurm/Cogito managing the list now, or something? Seems like it with the "we don't allow this and that"-style posts.
Oh, I didn't know YouTube audio were mono. Is that for all YouTube video?
Originally, fusion and me were in sense the "admins" of this thread, since a lot of people were not following the most basic rules (e.g. no embedded Youtube vids, quote the list with your selections, etc.) But I don't want to give the impression that we are the only ones who can make modifications to the format of the list. Instead, my hope is that everyone who invested in this project, and wants to see it succeed will take personal ownership of the list, by sharing the burden of informing and assisting newcomers to this thread, and by making modifications to the list if they think it will improve it (e.g. geno's combination of remixes, wurm's addition of "Top approval list").
Ah I see .
Sorry to hear about your exam schedule getting messed up T_T.
I think all Youtube videos have mono audio. An easy way to hear the difference is to compare the two links for FF6 The Decisive Battle (Youtube vs MP3): the quality difference is big.
Edit: Amber[Light] killed one of my nominations =P. Guess I'll have to add it again...
Updated Amber[Light]'s list to include my Radiant Silvergun nomination.
In the future, can people please make a post when you START to update the list, then edit your post once you are finished? In this way, we can hopefully avoid situations where two people update the list simultaneously.
I believe many/most of the songs on the list are available in their respective console music formats, e.g. the MP3 I uploaded for FF6 The Decisive Battle was made from the song's .SPC music file. IMO this is a much better way to make MP3s than ripping them from low-quality, mono (not stereo) Youtube videos. You just have to make sure you choose good playback settings (e.g. cubic interpolation) so that you get higher quality sound out of the .SPC/.PSF/etc. files. The Alpha2 SPC plugin and the "Highly Experimental" .PSF plugin for WinAmp work well, I've found.
Edit: are fusion/wurm/Cogito managing the list now, or something? Seems like it with the "we don't allow this and that"-style posts.
Oh, I didn't know YouTube audio were mono. Is that for all YouTube video?
Originally, fusion and me were in sense the "admins" of this thread, since a lot of people were not following the most basic rules (e.g. no embedded Youtube vids, quote the list with your selections, etc.) But I don't want to give the impression that we are the only ones who can make modifications to the format of the list. Instead, my hope is that everyone who invested in this project, and wants to see it succeed will take personal ownership of the list, by sharing the burden of informing and assisting newcomers to this thread, and by making modifications to the list if they think it will improve it (e.g. geno's combination of remixes, wurm's addition of "Top approval list").
Ah I see .
Sorry to hear about your exam schedule getting messed up T_T.
I think all Youtube videos have mono audio. An easy way to hear the difference is to compare the two links for FF6 The Decisive Battle (Youtube vs MP3): the quality difference is big.
Edit: Amber[Light] killed my nominations =P. Guess I'll have to add them again...
Huh? I definitely quoted your post? Oh did you not add them to the list? Want me to do it I'll just edit my post.
*Edit - Changed the Portal - Still Alive to a YouTube link instead of the FileFront download link. Many people don't like to download jsut to view a song and the quality should be good enough to judge.
What probably happened was, for about 30 seconds I had only one nomination (from Ikaruga). Then I decided to add another, so I quickly edited my post to mention that I was going to make another change. I'm guessing you must have managed to quote my post before my ninja edit, so you didn't realize I was adding a second nominee.
I believe many/most of the songs on the list are available in their respective console music formats, e.g. the MP3 I uploaded for FF6 The Decisive Battle was made from the song's .SPC music file. IMO this is a much better way to make MP3s than ripping them from low-quality, mono (not stereo) Youtube videos. You just have to make sure you choose good playback settings (e.g. cubic interpolation) so that you get higher quality sound out of the .SPC/.PSF/etc. files. The Alpha2 SPC plugin and the "Highly Experimental" .PSF plugin for WinAmp work well, I've found.
Edit: are fusion/wurm/Cogito managing the list now, or something? Seems like it with the "we don't allow this and that"-style posts.
Oh, I didn't know YouTube audio were mono. Is that for all YouTube video?
Originally, fusion and me were in sense the "admins" of this thread, since a lot of people were not following the most basic rules (e.g. no embedded Youtube vids, quote the list with your selections, etc.) But I don't want to give the impression that we are the only ones who can make modifications to the format of the list. Instead, my hope is that everyone who invested in this project, and wants to see it succeed will take personal ownership of the list, by sharing the burden of informing and assisting newcomers to this thread, and by making modifications to the list if they think it will improve it (e.g. geno's combination of remixes, wurm's addition of "Top approval list").
Ah I see .
Sorry to hear about your exam schedule getting messed up T_T.
I think all Youtube videos have mono audio. An easy way to hear the difference is to compare the two links for FF6 The Decisive Battle (Youtube vs MP3): the quality difference is big.
Edit: Amber[Light] killed one of my nominations =P. Guess I'll have to add it again...
Oh I think I know what happened.... Bill you quoted my message after I was updating the list, and I think beefhamburger didn't see it.... is that right? Or did I not post an "Updating list" message?
Question: We got a number of SSBB remixes again, but in a separate category. Do we take all the SSBB and consider them as distinct songs in SSBB rather than remixes? I think we should because there are some people who like only the original, while others like only the remixes, so voting would not be totally accurate.
Approved: Nominated: Additions: - MP3 and In-game FMV of "Final Fantasy - To Zanarkand" Corrections: - "Curse of Monkey Island - A Pirate Wasn't Meant to Be" to "Curse of Monkey Island - A Pirate I Was Meant to Be"
First surprise: I thought Cogito's "updating list" post meant that he was updating a list in his original post, or something, lol!
Second surprise: I decided to check out "To Zanarkand" to see what it's like, and I recognize it: it's the song that got remixed into "The Skies Above" from The Black Mages II! I really liked that song ^^. "To Zanarkand" on its own, however, is just "OK". Personally, I don't see what's so special about it. I mean, I've never played FFX before, but on the other hand, if you take song #10 from the list Haji posted, I've never even heard of that game before, yet I can't stop listening to that song now . (It's the first song in this video.) The fact that I'm hooked on this song without ever playing the game it's from is IMO one of the reasons why I would put it on a personal "Greatest VG songs of all time" list. (I say "personal list" because everyone has different music preferences.)
I guess what I'm trying to say is, being a great and memorable song in the context of the game is nice and all, but IMO being a great song without needing the original context is even better.
PS: I'm going to keep listening to these other songs for a while. Will probably approve some tonight. (Like that "BRAMBLES" song: I really liked it when I heard it as part of Haji's post. )
Approved:Mega Man 2 - Dr. Wily's Stage 1, Donkey Kong Country 2 - Stickerbush Symphony (Bramble Blast Stage), Final Fantasy VII - Still More Fighting, Super Mario RPG - Smithy's Bosses Battle Theme Nominated: Donkey Kong Country 2 - Disco Train Additions: Corrections:
Alright, after listening to Dr. Wily's Stage 1 for about 30 minutes, I'm gonna have to give it its 10th approval ^^. I can make an MP3 for it from the .NSF file tonight if no one else has one.
say i wanted to upload an OC remix of a song that's already on the nomination list.
i could just use the link on the OC remix website, right?
Yes, that's correct. Make sure to indent the link to the remix, from the original song. There are some examples on the list already that you can use. PM me if your still confused.
On April 14 2008 07:58 Bill307 wrote: Alright, after listening to Dr. Wily's Stage 1 for about 30 minutes, I'm gonna have to give it its 10th approval ^^. I can make an MP3 for it from the .NSF file tonight if no one else has one.
Sweet! Thank you Bill, I was just about to request an MP3 for it! The fan guitar rendition is even more awesome. I wish there was a high quality version for it though. Man this thread is turning out to be a great idea. I almost hesitated in making it because I thought it would flop.
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The official track listing is "Fight on", but "Those Who Fight Further" has also been used officially, particularly by the black mages. As far as I can tell, it is also its most well-known name and it fits with the other semi-official English title for regular battles, which is "Those Who Fight."
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Wishing on a dream that seeeeeems far off Hoping it will come todaaay Into the starlit night Foolish dreamers turn their gaze Waiting on a shoooooooooting staaaaar But
What if that star is not to coooooome Will their dreams fade to nothing? When the horizon darkens most We all need to believe there is hope {{{EPIC ZOOM}}}
Is an angel watching closely over me? Can there be a guiding light I've yet to see? I know my heart should guide me but Theres a hole within my soul What will fill this emptiness inside of me
Am I to be satisfied without knowing I wish then for a chance to see Now all I need, <desperately!~> Is my star to come...
I know we should keep this thread clear of spam, but epic song
FF7 Still More Fighting -> Those who fight further
Wow, didn't know that. For the longest time I knew it as "Still More Fighting" and I think other people believed that to be the official title as well. Can you direct me to where you found that out? Nice work fusion.
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DONE
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Approved: Nominated: Sonic the Hedgehog - Green Hill Zone - I'm pretty sure people forgot about sonic, but it had some great songs. Additions: Corrections:
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Approved: Chrono Cross - Time's Scar Chrono Trigger - Main Theme Chrono Trigger - Sealed Door Final Fantasy VII - J-E-N-O-V-A (Black Mages Version) Final Fantasy VII - Main Theme Lunar 2 - Last Battle Metal Gear Solid 3 - Main Theme Star Ocean 3 - Mission to the Deep Space
How come no one's nominated any of the really good FF songs? I added 2 doozies to rectify the situation.
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Wishing on a dream that seeeeeems far off Hoping it will come todaaay Into the starlit night Foolish dreamers turn their gaze Waiting on a shoooooooooting staaaaar But
What if that star is not to coooooome Will their dreams fade to nothing? When the horizon darkens most We all need to believe there is hope {{{EPIC ZOOM}}}
Is an angel watching closely over me? Can there be a guiding light I've yet to see? I know my heart should guide me but Theres a hole within my soul What will fill this emptiness inside of me
Am I to be satisfied without knowing I wish then for a chance to see Now all I need, <desperately!~> Is my star to come...
I know we should keep this thread clear of spam, but epic song
Aaaah, I remember that song from somewhere! But where >_< ..... must be one of Chrono Cross, Xenogears, or possibly FF8. Leaning towards Xenogears... I'll figure it out once I get home, I guess.
Edit: Ah, someone PM'd me the answer. I was way off, lol. I have no idea how I came to know that song, because I've never played the game before. Probably from a random Youtube video .
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Alright, here's a link to download an MP3 of Dr. Wily's stage. I decided to take advantage of this NSF player's ability to pan the channels to either side, making a stereo MP3 even though the NES itself was monaural.
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I can't believe no one mentioned the Chrono Trigger track everyone loves to remix, Corridors of Time also known as Time Circuits and better known as the Zeal Kingdom theme.
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms is an arranged version of the Geno's Forest theme. Very awesome.
Immaterial and Missing power songs are very techno and fast paced, they suit the whole shooter-fighter feel of the game, at the very least people will be intrigued by them and check the Touhou Project.
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On April 14 2008 22:48 beefhamburger wrote: Where was the 10th vote for Chrono Cross - Time's Scar? It seems to have just been moved up to the Greatest Song list without that 10th approval.
I was just about to ask that myself. I'll PM Garnet about it, since he was the one who made that edit.
On April 14 2008 16:37 Bill307 wrote: Alright, here's a link to download an MP3 of Dr. Wily's stage. I decided to take advantage of this NSF player's ability to pan the channels to either side, making a stereo MP3 even though the NES itself was monaural.
Approved: Chrono Trigger - Corridors of Time Nominated: Streets of Rage - Round 3-1 [Dreamer] (on behalf of 0z), Final Fantasy VI - Within the Giant (on behalf of Luddite) Corrections: "Legend of Dragoon - If you still believe" -> "Legend of Dragoon - If You Still Believe In Love". Also the direct download MP3 link did not work for any MP3 on rpgdreamer.com. The best I could do was to post a link to their MP3 download page. If someone can find a YouTube video link for that song, please replace the MP3 download link with it.
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realising that ff7 - world crisis and ff7 - staff roll are a single track each.... i will hereby nominate each of those as 1 entry each!!! ignore everything else. bwahahaha /win thread
youtube.com/watch?v=ImEL5ZKxuRc
youtube.com/watch?v=UoYbft-K2uM
nominate :
chrono corss - (dream of shore near) another world
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aw what the fuck, i spent like 10 minutes adding super mario sunshine - delfino plaza to the list and then my browser froze. and now i have to go to class.
On April 15 2008 01:47 Tiger- wrote: Are we limited to voting once a day?
Also i made a mistake on the MP3 linking for Immaterial and Missing Power - Till When, it shouldn't be there, i think it belongs to Ikaruga.
I'll fix it on my next post.
Nope. Basic rules are: (1) Unlimited nominations/approvals (2) You can't approve your nomination (3) You can't approve a song more than once
On April 15 2008 01:46 Meta wrote: aw what the fuck, i spent like 10 minutes adding super mario sunshine - delfino plaza to the list and then my browser froze. and now i have to go to class.
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the problem now is that everyone who voted for an FF7 song is gonna wanna change their vote over to World Crisis and Staff Roll now (see my post above in spoilers)... oh well get voting again guys!
Approved: Final Fantasy VII - J-E-N-O-V-A (by me), Sonic the Hedgehog - Green Hill Zone (on behalf of persie) Nominated: Suikoden II - Gothic Neclord Battle (on behalf of ishob), Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Lost Woods Theme, F-zero Big Blue Theme (both on behalf of drift0ut) Corrections:
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guys we should nominate something from Sonic but i dunno what all the songs in sonic 1 are great stage songs but so short i nominate sonic 1 collection (all songs on here)
On April 15 2008 05:41 perisie xx wrote: guys we should nominate something from Sonic but i dunno what all the songs in sonic 1 are great stage songs but so short i nominate sonic 1 collection (all songs on here)
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Approved: Legend Of Zelda - Gerudo Desert, Chrono Trigger - Main Theme, Frog's Theme (on behalf of monkeyspanker) Nominated: Golden Sun - The Elemental Stars (on behalf of arceus) Corrections:
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The "Tales of" series are more known for their frantic combat rather than their music, but this little piece by the JRock band Bump of Chicken has managed to get on top of my playing list.
The Clock Tower stage from MvC2 has this real weird music for a fighting game, maybe that's why when i think of Marvel vs Capcom 2 i always think of this song.
Galaxy Plant is the music that plays on the final stage on Mario Galaxy, Epic.
Drunkard does make wise remarks it's my guilty pleasure, while not as known as other GG songs like Suck a Sage, Holy Orders, Blue Water Blue Sky it has this charming riffs. Favorite among favorites.
The whole Megaman X soundtrack is awesome but people always seem to prefer Storm Eagle over others but Armored Armadillo and Sigma 1 are my top choices.
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Ok for some reason I have this gigantic space between "Same game, Great Netbattler Theme..." and "Lost Oddysey" but when I tried to edit it it won't show. Sorry -.-
I also vote for the Final Fantasy IX Battle 1 and Golden Sun: The Lost Age- Walking forward with determination.
Golden Sun has the best music (and not just one... almost all of them!) from GBA series I believe.
Um...not sure what I'm supposed to do atm (are we supposed to not modify the list atm or something?) but can I just say it blows my mind that no one has nominated:
On April 17 2008 07:16 HamerD wrote: Um...not sure what I'm supposed to do atm (are we supposed to not modify the list atm or something?) but can I just say it blows my mind that no one has nominated:
Monkey Island 1 theme (but actually there are like several songs in that game that are amazingly well written)
Anyone can edit the list at any time, except when someone posts a message saying they are editing the list. In that case just wait until their finished. What specifically got you confused HamerD?
I don't have time right now, but your nominations are still not added to the list by yourself (or someone else), I do it later.
On April 17 2008 06:41 goldenkrnboi wrote: EDITING. PLEASE HOLD
Are you still editing? Its been a couple of hours..
On April 17 2008 05:32 Wala.Revolution wrote: Ah Slayer, that's what it was. I had these songs but I couldn't remember where the music came from. Yes I'd also nominate Wacraft 2 Human Themes.
3- Hmm that's wierd. I thought the third one was something else. Which one has a piccolo trilling in the beginning every now and then?
Holy moly, that certainly takes me back. Warcraft II had awesome music, and since it had its tracks in WAV format, you could put the CD in a CD player and play the all the tracks.
-Instead of nominating just one or two tracks from the Warcraft - Human, I just bunched them into one category because they are all awesome. Same for the Orcs.
-Don't worry HamerD, I haven't forgotten your nominations. I'll get to them when I have time. Or you can add yourself *hint hint*
Approved: Warcraft II - Human (Tracks 1-6) Nominated: Black Mesa Source - Theme, Romance of Three Kingdoms 7 - Opening, Lost Odyssey - Battle Theme, Mega Man Battle Network 3 - Theme (all of behalf of wala), Warcraft II - Human (1-6). Warcraft II - Orc (1-6) Corrections:
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Corrections: Added some stuff that had five votes to the Top Approvals list Changed Black Mesa Source - Theme --> Black Mesa Source - Main Theme and Megaman Battle Network 3 - Theme --> Megaman Battle Network 3 - Main Theme + Show Spoiler +
it sounds better with main theme than just theme. unless it's not the main theme. in which case, the person should have made it more clear anyways
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chances are if its 10 from the same game that nobody has heard of, they arent great songs
but if you are convinced that they are great, or even quite a bit above average, go for it. -----------
For Approving: You can vote as many times as you want. But you can only vote once for a particular song - you cant vote for a single song more than once. If you approve of 40 different songs, go ahead and approve (add 1 to their vote total) each of them.
golden, you missed adding "Monkey Island 1 - Main Theme" to the list. Other than that perfect job.
Hammer, by adding one point of "nominate" I assume you mean you want to approve songs on the list? The rules are detailed on first post of this thread, but briefly you can approve any song, but only once, and not songs that you yourself nominated.
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Yeah, if you wanted to, you could nominate them all even (though I don't think most people like ALL of that music). You just can't nominate the same song twice.
On April 18 2008 06:58 geno wrote: Yeah, if you wanted to, you could nominate them all even (though I don't think most people like ALL of that music). You just can't nominate the same song twice.
Just to clarify and avoid confusion, "nominating" only occurs when you are adding a new song to the list. If you like a song that is already on the list, then you are "approving" it. Read the first post in this thread, for the exact rules of nominating and approving.
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Approved: Nominated: Corrections: - HamerD, you missed your +1 to "Final Fantasy VII - Those who fight further". Added it for you. - Added "Tetris - Main Theme" to Top Approvals list.
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omg lol...this thread is imba especially the amount of code you have to sift through to get the list to look proper :p. Thanks for adding my vote for that song cogito. It feels like computer hacking or some shit ><
On April 18 2008 10:42 HamerD wrote: omg lol...this thread is imba especially the amount of code you have to sift through to get the list to look proper :p. Thanks for adding my vote for that song cogito. It feels like computer hacking or some shit ><
lol. Seriously, the code looks insane, especially with the use of hyperlink URLs. But after a while you get used to it. And if your using Firefox, Ctrl+F really helps.
(sorry, it was bugging me because it was practically the same song. besides, it doesn't really hurt, seeing how it only had one vote (a.k.a. it's nomination vote)
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Game- Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner Song- Big Battle Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Melody in an Ancient Town + Over the Horizon (starts 2 minutes in, ends at 3:30) + Casino (ends at 4:30) + Lively Town Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Magic Carpet + The Ocean (Song starts about 4 minutes in) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Violent Enemies + Almighty Devil Boss is Challenged (starts at 3:35 after a nice interlude) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Persona 3 Song- The Poem For Everyone's Souls (stupid name, imo) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner Song- Big Battle Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Melody in an Ancient Town + Over the Horizon (starts 2 minutes in, ends at 3:30) + Casino (ends at 4:30) + Lively Town Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Magic Carpet + The Ocean (Song starts about 4 minutes in) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Violent Enemies + Almighty Devil Boss is Challenged (starts at 3:35 after a nice interlude) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Persona 3 Song- The Poem For Everyone's Souls (stupid name, imo) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner Song- Big Battle Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Melody in an Ancient Town + Over the Horizon (starts 2 minutes in, ends at 3:30) + Casino (ends at 4:30) + Lively Town Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Magic Carpet + The Ocean (Song starts about 4 minutes in) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Dragon Quest V Songs- Violent Enemies + Almighty Devil Boss is Challenged (starts at 3:35 after a nice interlude) Link- [url blocked]
Game- Persona 3 Song- The Poem For Everyone's Souls (stupid name, imo) Link- [url blocked]
Wow, epic list. Those are pretty much all new to me, except Ace Combat! Love the music in that series. Where did you get the MP3s from?
http://gh.ffshrine.org/soundtracks.php is where I got a lot of these, they're a website that basically hosts shit from IRC music release groups. The stuff from SMT3 was ripped off of my very own SMT3 soundtrack which is why the filenames are all weird.
On April 18 2008 13:17 Cogito wrote: I will be nominating a bunch of songs from the Xenogears and Chrono Cross OST later. A bit surprised no one else has...
Whatever you nominate from Xenogears, I approve. Nearly every track in that game is awesome. Definitely one of the reasons I liked the game so much (and nominated the ones I did from it).
whoops I double posted instead of editing lol I suck. Anyway, I'll put some assorted comments in this post so it isn't all a waste. Next post is what I'm talking about:
Note: Actually, I only used the lastest list from Cognito. Nominations (unformatted) by exo6yte are left out. Could you format them in, please? Sorry I was too lazy to do that. Or whoever feels like doing it.
Yeah, I like the CC another world overworld a lot, probably top 5 overworld theme ever, which actually is quite the accomplishment. Hm, the BoF5 track I picked might not be the best, but I couldn't find most on YouTube, so eh. Music from that game works much better in context anyway, but I thought Sakimoto needed more representation.
And maybe this should be renamed to be "all time greatest memorable game songs". Inevitably, only melody-driven, easy-to-remember tracks get put in. Oh well.
Approved: Chrono Cross - Dream of the Shore Bordering Another World Donkey Kong Country 2 - Stickerbush Symphony (Bramble Blast Stage) Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past - Dark World Theme Mega Man X - Armored Armadillo Xenogears - Shevat, the Wind is Calling Nominated: Star Ocean 3 - Chrysanthemum In Winter Grandia 3 - Attack with Conviction Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter - The Middle Layer Area Corrections:
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Approved: Nominated: Ace Combat 4 - Whiskey Corridor; Dragon Quest V - Melody in an Ancient Town, Over the Horizon, Casino, Lively Town, Magic Carpet, The Ocean, Violent Enemies, Almighty Devil Boss is Challenged; Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner - Big Battle, Hunting; Persona 3 - The Poem For Everyone's Souls, Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne - Conception, Dante Battle, Kotowari Battle; Vantage Master V2 - Forest (all on behalf of exo6yte) Corrections:
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And maybe this should be renamed to be "all time greatest memorable game songs". Inevitably, only melody-driven, easy-to-remember tracks get put in. Oh well.
Your probably right. "All-time Most Memorable Game Songs" would be most fitting I think. But an admin has to change the title. I don't have the power.
And maybe this should be renamed to be "all time greatest memorable game songs". Inevitably, only melody-driven, easy-to-remember tracks get put in. Oh well.
Your probably right. "All-time Most Memorable Game Songs" would be most fitting I think. But an admin has to change the title. I don't have the power.
Nah, it was just off-handed comment about why Mitsuda and Uematsu are getting overrepresented. Nice thread anyway.
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Edit - Someone mentioned they wanted to nominate Kingdom Hearts music, but I guess never got around to doing it. I am hoping that person would nominate a few songs, because I heard good things about it, but I don't have to time right now to go through the entire OST to find them.
Corrections: Renamed: - Donkey Kong Country - King K.Rool's theme to Donkey Kong Country - Gang-Plank Galleon (King K.Rool's Theme) - Donkey Kong Country 2 - Mine Stage to Donkey Kong Country 2 - Kannon's Klaim (Mine Stage) - Golden Sun : Walking Forward With Determation to Golden Sun: The Lost Age - Walking Forward With Determation
Moved to All-Time Greatest Game Song List: - Donkey Kong Country 2 - Stickerbush Symphony (Bramble Blast Stage)
Added to Top Approvals List: - Street Fighter II - Guile Stage - Final Fantasy VIII - Eyes On Me
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Nominated: Xenogears - Bonds Of Sea And Fire, Emotions, Flight, Gathering of the Night Sky, Leftovers Of The Dreams Of The Strong, The Treasure That Cannot Be Stolen; Wild ARMs - Town; Shadow of the Colossus - The Opened Way
Corrections: Xenogears songs I have nominated start with two votes, because geno mentioned earlier that he would approve any songs from Xenogears.
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And maybe this should be renamed to be "all time greatest memorable game songs". Inevitably, only melody-driven, easy-to-remember tracks get put in. Oh well.
Your probably right. "All-time Most Memorable Game Songs" would be most fitting I think. But an admin has to change the title. I don't have the power.
Nah, it was just off-handed comment about why Mitsuda and Uematsu are getting overrepresented. Nice thread anyway.
you've got to be fucking kidding me. Uematsu has more talent in his little finger than your entire family tree. If anything he's underrepresented.
and what the hell do you mean melody-driven? So you just sit there, with drool pouring from the side of your mouth, as you clash woodblocks together, when you want to make music? Why the hell should you judge video game music from a technical or otherwise perspective? There is the video game music that serves the game, and the vgm that stands as amazing songs. Uematsu does both, all the time. LAMe dude
Thanks a lot Nikk! Where did you find the MP3 for it?
I have the OST for DKC and DKC2, downloaded by torrent some time ago. I'm sure you can find them on PirateBay or Demonoid, or if you want you can PM me a screen name for AIM or MSN and I'll send you whatever you want.
And maybe this should be renamed to be "all time greatest memorable game songs". Inevitably, only melody-driven, easy-to-remember tracks get put in. Oh well.
Your probably right. "All-time Most Memorable Game Songs" would be most fitting I think. But an admin has to change the title. I don't have the power.
Nah, it was just off-handed comment about why Mitsuda and Uematsu are getting overrepresented. Nice thread anyway.
you've got to be fucking kidding me. Uematsu has more talent in his little finger than your entire family tree. If anything he's underrepresented.
and what the hell do you mean melody-driven? So you just sit there, with drool pouring from the side of your mouth, as you clash woodblocks together, when you want to make music? Why the hell should you judge video game music from a technical or otherwise perspective? There is the video game music that serves the game, and the vgm that stands as amazing songs. Uematsu does both, all the time. LAMe dude
Well if you want to discuss Uematsu's talent or the nature of game music in general (I suppose this is the thread for it...if not we can start another), I'm all for it. I think a valid framework for discussing most game music is using the language of music theory and criticism from classical music, especially since most game music attempts a pseudo-classical style. There has to be some way to describe what makes a song an amazing song, and compare between different tracks. Why is it that you think Uematsu's music is great? That's what we're interested in (I'm being serious here, and I like some of his stuff too).
I'll spoiler the rest to not take up as much space: + Show Spoiler +
Of course, as you mention, VGM really should be taken within the perspective of the game itself, as it's a programmatic (incidental) form much like the music you see for movies and such. A track can sound pretty boring by itself yet sound great when you're crawling through a dungeon.
But a key characteristic, and one that lends itself towards the de-legitimization of VGM as art (not saying that this is an ideal VGM should necessarily strive towards), is the fact that in most cases, the music must be able to loop infinitely. Thus, there's little development of ideas to be had within a particular track, as any development would just repeat along with the introductory material, and that doesn't make much sense. So you get simplistic AABBC (repeat) forms and such, sure. Granted, you do have some development in the sense that the main theme of a game and maybe one or two other themes is used as a basis or countermelody in other tracks.
So what is it that VGM has to work with if the structure or form is somewhat limited? Here's my list: 1. Melody 2. Harmonizations 3. Countermelody 4. Rhythm 5. Transitions between sections 6. Instrumentation
all the usual. I'm sure there's stuff I'm forgetting.
I'd still contend that Uematsu writes a nice melody often, but there's usually not any complexity, interesting progressions, adept use of different "instruments", challenging rhythms, or the like. (btw I'm not saying that you should always have all of those things, and not necessarily all at the same time!)
But going back more into the discussion at hand, the reasons I think Uematsu is overrepresented here: 1. Good melodies are easy to remember, thus people remember to nominate them Nobody gets too excited about something like this (from Vagrant Story, by Sakimoto)--a random example btw, where the melody or lack of one isn't as much a focus, even if that has little to do with the compositional quality. 2. Lots of people relatively have played FF, so Uematsu gets a lot more exposure than most every other VGM composer. 3. VGM gets associated with the game it's from for those who've played the game. A lot of people have played and liked FF games, so they're quick to associate these good times with the music.
Anyhow if you'd like to describe why you think Uematsu's music is so exceptional, with whatever terms come to mind, I'd like to hear it (no sarcasm).
edit: just to qualify I'm not implying there's a particular "right" answer or that rigorous analysis is the best way to deal with VGM, just trying to start some talks if there's any takers =)
Lots of classical genres and movements in the 20th century heavily emphasized percussive sounds actually. Orchestral music generally (a very broad statement) emphasized the strings less and the percussion more. People actually wrote music for pure percussion ensemble, etc. Maybe you shouldn't write them off so quickly.
About the Uematsu finger comment, my cousin (a lot older than me) has taught and teaches at schools such as the New England Conservatory. Her husband, Robert Levin, was head of the music theory department at Curtis, teaches at Harvard, was once a student of Nadia Boulanger who taught composers such as Leonard Bernstein, Aaron Copland, Phillip Glass, George Gershwin, etc. and was invited to fill her place teaching when she became too ill to to teach anymore. Not that I have so much talents myself lol. But wrong family tree.
Can I start by saying that I won't address you on an insulting or patronizing level because you obviously know what you're talking about. I agree with all of your objective statements.
To answer your most answerable point, why do I think Uematsu's music is great. The same reason I think the beach boys' music is vastly, vastly superior to some bullshit like dream theatre. The Beach Boys is about tunes, harmonies and striking your heart chords. It's by no means simple music, but it's not painfully complex. The musicianship is mediocre at best. That is exactly how I would describe Uematsu. He knows what the fuck he is doing to make good music, he doesn't get lost in technicalities or bound by extraneous opinion. He takes a share of the interest pie, if you know what I mean. He can make any of his songs stand out, as more memorable than the section of the game they are used in, or just let them blend into the background.
From a more technical aspect, it's Uematsu's combination of simple melody with creative phrasing and excellent orchestration that gets me. For a good example, the opening song of final fantasy VII combines several parts to create a rich tapestry of sound which works exceptionally well. A very exciting and well stated piece.
So you just put forward a case that vgm is not legitimate art. This is a pretty typical mis-definition (so to speak) of the word art; in my opinion. If art is the practise of communication and expression, which in almost all cases it clearly is, I fail to see how vgm cannot be considered a rich part of it. Furthermore, if art is the creation of aesthetically pleasing work, then I fail even more to see how it cannot be considered legitimate.
Your basic approach to music, essentially, like most other classical enthusiasts (or even partakers) personally appalls me. And I mean that sincerely, not flippantly. Whilst I analyse a huge amount of the things I listen to, I can still feel and connect with them regardless of the depth of analysis used. It feels like, in my opinion, you are one of those people who are stimulated by the technical practise of composition, rather than the end result. Specifically talking about themes developing, and complexity, I mean that just doesn't speak to me at all.
What is important for me is a great melody, an original way of expressing it, emotion and personality in the parts; and fitting instrumentation. Connection with the piece, so you can hear the artist singing their melody to you.
Personally, when I listen to a mozart or a beethoven or a stravinsky I am left stone cold. I actually found this very interesting- that you mention VGM being limited as an art form . That is in fact why I consider most popular styles of music to be more challenging than classical. Because you have to basically provide variation- people are only interested if you have variation; with less variables. You aren't ripping out vital variables, mind, only the ones that are the least emotive. You can't make someone cry with a 7/8 conga rhythm let me tell you.
Plus all this bullshit omg...when I listen to classical music sometimes, I just think 'HELLO' 'can you even hear these notes?'...it just sounds like the composer has spent FAR too much time thinking about the exact thematic developments, note lengths and phrasing rather than the actual music. So it is this indulgence that classical music is steeped in that annoys me.
Finally, I personally feel that no degree of complexity in music composition is ever actually that challenging. I think you are on a wild goose chase if you think you can rank composers up in talent. You have an infinite amount of time to write a song lol, you can take however bloody long, coming up with whatever bloody complicated method of chord analysis you want; you're still gona get the job done as long as you have the music in your head. I just think that most people stop, naturally, before they get into heavy classical music because it's not aesthetically pleasing except for old grandads and people who have had their soul burned out by endless technical exercises.
PS I think vgm is getting worse and worse nowadays and it's probably due to people like you, no offense intended. And that annoys me because vgm is where i got most of my enjoyable instrumental music from .
But I still can't get what your main point is.
"I'd still contend that Uematsu writes a nice melody often, but there's usually not any complexity, interesting progressions, adept use of different "instruments", challenging rhythms, or the like. (btw I'm not saying that you should always have all of those things, and not necessarily all at the same time!)"
I mean I don't know about you, but interesting doesn't = good for me. And I contend with your opinion about his use of different instruments. And challenging rhythms. I'm a drummer and I can tell you now that I've never heard a classical piece with complex enough rhythm to take on a jazz fusion drummer like dave weckl or vinnie colaiuta.
Good rebuttal Myrmidon. I would like to continue this discussion so long as it doesn't get too heated, and can remain civil (no need for personal insults, please).
I admit I don't know much about music theory, so I could be quite ignorant with my following statements, but I don't agree with your notion that you can apply some abstract theories to game music to compare it to classical music and come to the conclusion that it is a "psuedo" version of it. For me that comment only serves to cheapen the value and worth of the genre, which simply isn't right, and I was hoping with this thread to prove otherwise. If I were to classify the general genre of game music I would say it is "neo-classical".
Also I don't like the idea of analyzing music as if there is some objective, impartial way of stating whether a song is "good" or "bad", because I don't think you can separate music from emotions, and so long as there are emotions involved (i.e. matters of taste) there is no absolute objective ground someone can stand on and say Song A > Song B.
But with that said, there is something interesting in the phenomenon that certain songs seem to be widely accepted as being greater than other songs (i.e. there is some objective basis for Song A > Song B). For example, "Chrono Cross - Time's Scar" [insert shameless plug here to mention it was composed by my all-time favorite game composer, Yasunori Mitsuda] was the third fastest song is get inducted into the hall in this list, and in the Top 100 game music thread made by deadhaji, it was No.1 on that list. Now there has to be something objective about how great it is, otherwise how could it receive such unanimous praise? Perhaps, here you could inject some theory and analysis, but to me the reason is simple: We just feel good when we listen to it. That reason may seem woefully ignorant, but I think if you want a better answer the starting point is understanding how the human brain responds to auditory stimuli, and how its emotional centers interact with its sensory processing centers.
So to bring this discussion back to square one, I don't know (objectively) why Uematsu's songs are so great. I cannot elucidate the exact reasons for it. All I know is that when I listen to most of his songs (even if I've never played the game) I "feel" good, and I think that's good enough for the common man.
Thanks for the replies, guys. My ideas come too much from a tradition of classical, or "art", or "serious" music that has managed to isolate and divorce itself from the people. It's the shortsightedness of many classical musicians today that has created a gulf between popular music and classical music, one that didn't really exist back in the 19th century and before, and one that's leading to the weakening and perhaps even incestuous decline of classical music as a whole.
About music as art and art in general:
If art is the practise of communication and expression
Although I've got no good definitions for art, and this subject has been discussed to death like...yeah...I think that's a bit too inclusive. Commercials, advertisements, letters, etc. fit, but don't quite seem to fall into the same category as theater, painting, etc., at least to me.
if art is the creation of aesthetically pleasing work
This idea would appall many modern artists, but perhaps not many artists of earlier times. I strongly disagree with that. Some ideas are well expressed in shocking, uneasy ways. A depiction of war may not be pleasing, but it might tell you very important things about yourself or society. An aesthetically pleasing works can be shallow, empty, superficial.
Maybe I went too far in describing VGM as limited or deficient. It serves a very good purpose, and I like to listen to it. The point I was making is that the looping is a great hindrance if you're trying to create a masterpiece. How can you write a novel without a climax or a conclusion? It's the same idea. But you still can create VGM that's interesting, pleasing, and perhaps even challenging. It's just that nobody really tries to create masterpieces because that would be difficult, incredibly time-consuming, probably not well-received, etc. So instead they write these cutesy tunes, simple melodic tracks, or exciting romps. It's very likely that these cutesy tunes and such fit games better than more complicated music. Just some people write these things better than other people, and that's what we're all interested in. It's not that VGM aside from the looping is limited IMHO but that nobody tries to do more with it.
For me, "challenging" would mean depth, the capacity for many interpretations that can speak from many different emotions and ideas. Most popular music you dance to, chill to, etc. Damn if that's not the music I want if I want to dance or chill, but if you listen to it (as opposed to simply hearing it; the focus is on your objective and intellectual involvement), there really isn't much to listen to in many cases. Of course there's a continuum; some popular music has some depth if not a lot. Jazz in general, especially the styles of the 40's-60's and modern avant-garde styles, is considered to be as deep as most classical music, even by some of the snootiest, most out-of-touch musicians out there. Part of the reason is just sheer complexity--a curse of musical training in many cases is that you by default (for some people it's always) analyze everything you hear; if music lacks depth and complexity, you might start to get bored or annoyed by it.
I think you mischaracterize classical music as being enamored with the language of music (the note lengths, the phrasings, the thematic development, the chord changes, etc.). When people talk about these things, some people might go into saying how they used X and Y just like you say omg I haves 400 APM. But the reason we talk about these things is that they are building blocks. All "actual music" is built out of these parts, consciously or subconsciously (maybe better words are "intentionally" or "unintentionally"). Even if you ignore these parts and any analysis, they still exist.
Anyway, the analysis is useful because it can be used to say something like, drawing from movies as an example: "in this movie I really liked the portrayal of character X. In particular, the cinematography at portion Y was particularly effective when the camera kept surrounding character X with bleak, empty, white spaces, as opposed to her counterpart Z who wore bold, active colors, which helped to quickly and powerfully make apparent Y's loneliness or desolation (or whatever)" or such. In other words, the analysis can be used to understand something and communicate that on another level. Somebody else might say, "yeah it was good" but have no meaningful explanation. The cinematography wasn't the end-all product but rather a component that contributed to the experience.
A piece of music can make you feel like you reached the summit of a mountain. How? Well, you can say that the beginning was like kind of sad, but the ascent was dramatic leading to a real pretty, thick celebration at the end. But then you have the problem of how the beginning was sad, and that somebody else thought it was expectant instead (two valid views, but how did two people come to two different answers)? You don't need to know the details to appreciate it, sure. You don't need to realize that the melody at the beginning was actually used at the end too, but in changed form. Or that the ascent was marked by 2-against-3 rhythms that cause tension, or that that's called hemiola. However, it might tell you something about how the music did what it did, and why the next piece you hear does nothing for you. Or why the person next to you fell asleep.
Just to clear up something, just having these components doesn't make something good. There's still no truly objective ground to say A > B, but it's something.
About ranking composers in talent...it's a hard thing to do, but I think it's akin to ranking songs as good or not. There are some valid soft metrics, like how well they can emotionally move people, how easily they come to clever or fresh ideas, etc. I think there's some basis here as long as there is consensus.
You know one particular reason why you (HamerD) might not like recent VGM as much as older VGM? Recent VGM is more likely to be complex (and btw complex in of itself doesn't mean good, and lot's of good stuff is simple but does what it does well and appropriately by being simple), because the technology is no longer so limited. You can have more channels, more "instruments". Maybe people are trying to be too fancy rather than doing something simpler that gets the job done. But that's just my wild guess; can't exactly read your mind. ~_~
We just feel good when we listen to it.
Hopefully you picked up in my rambling this point, which I'll restate just in case I really make no sense: "Can you say anything about what makes you feel good?"
Erg, I'm kind of slow and stupid today, but hopefully you still have some objections to some of the above you're willing to talk about.
edit: I forgot to address the Uematsu issue. I think I have a hard time putting it into words too. I'll start by saying that I can't find too many things I like other than some of the melodies here and there. It's sometimes not interesting, sometimes stagnant. Compared to other VGM I don't find it particularly outstanding or brilliant. The end result is it doesn't disproportionately make me "feel good", but how it gets there? It's "ordinary" except in the times it's not. Ugh let me think later.
Forgot this one:
That is in fact why I consider most popular styles of music to be more challenging than classical. Because you have to basically provide variation- people are only interested if you have variation; with less variables. You aren't ripping out vital variables, mind, only the ones that are the least emotive.
Here I'd argue you're taking out variables that can be made to be important in ways that make sense. In very general terms there are ways to use these other variables to nuance, color, enhance the "more emotive" ones for a fuller experience, one that different people will interpret in many challenging, enriching ways.
edit2: "Neoclassical" rather than "pseudoclassical" sounds fine. I was hesitant to use the word "neoclassical" because it already means something else specific already. Especially with RPG music, "neoromantic" is probably a better description as VGM along with most movie soundtracks and the like borrow more from the Romantic than Classical period and ideas of classical music. Just the word was already taken so I ended up picking something that doesn't quite fit because of the connotation (or maybe it does?).
Question(s): Would you say VGM is meant to be taken seriously? What is its goals? Do you think it's musically significant? How about culturally significant? How seriously does it take itself?
Suffice to say that, being a composer myself who wants a job writing vgm, I do not simply have no explanation for why I like music. I'll get into the debate more later.
Very quickly though:
I expressed myself quite badly when I said that popular music is more challenging to write etc. My basic point is that generally, music is rather easy to write. Regardless of the level, in my opinion. What's difficult to write is good music; and the same goes for writing good themes. I completely agree with your points about some of uematsu's music being dull, but I personally think he has a fantastic imagination and a very acute sense of emotional awareness. His important songs are often, almost, supported by the action, rather than the other way round.
Your point about my liking past vgm more is completely accurate. I think vgm composition (especially american) has disappeared up its own ass. It's completely lost the point of vgm in the first place. The guile stage of street fighter is made not just by the background or the fighting, but definitely by the music.
My point about popular music being harder to write still stands in my opinion. I think classical music is basically overrun with variables, it waffles and fails to hit the nail on the head. By having, for example, a 3 minute song like with a band like the beatles, you are forced to present the neatest, most focused thing you can. With classical music you are allowed a huge amount of room to prod in all directions; and therefore in individual sections you are less scrutinized.
I also think that classical music was only ever a large part of the music scene because blues/ rock and roll just hadn't been invented. It was the party music of the day, and most of the composers just ripped out pieces every few weeks. It's all just a big number cruncher, most classical music, in my opinion. Chuck in enough notes that are in key and you have a mozart concerto, basically. It's all really formulaic stuff. And the stuff that isn't formulaic is spending most of its time trying not to be formulaic, as opposed to good. Anyway like i said i have to rush ><
Okay... I don't know how this argument started, but if anyone has any doubts about the "musicality" of game music, just download and listen to the Orchestral Game Concerts. It's 5 discs of game music arranged into full orchestral pieces. Not only do you get that grand, classical feel, it also contains that uniqueness you can only find in game music.
Go download the OGC's (there's torrents out there) and listen for yourself. You just might be very surprised.
There have also been many Final Fantasy concerts consisting of purely Uematsu's work, which I also thought were pretty well done.
On April 30 2008 21:46 teamsolid wrote: Okay... I don't know how this argument started, but if anyone has any doubts about the "musicality" of game music, just download and listen to the Orchestral Game Concerts. It's 5 discs of game music arranged into full orchestral pieces. Not only do you get that grand, classical feel, it also contains that uniqueness you can only find in game music.
Go download the OGC's (there's torrents out there) and listen for yourself. You just might be very surprised.
There have also been many Final Fantasy concerts consisting of purely Uematsu's work, which I also thought were pretty well done.
Nice find solid. But all the torrents for it seem to be dead. Where did you get your torrent?
Responding to teamsolid (HamerD, I'll let you clean your room and such, and finish what you started): + Show Spoiler +
Yeah there's been several VGM orechestral-arrange concerts. I forget the name of a touring show I'd heard about in a blog post here (it'd be worth reposting in this thread), but I've heard parts of a few of them. And some games come out with soundtracks that may or may not be orchestral, piano, or other type of arrangements.
But I don't think you've addressed the issue. Any music at all can be orchestrated. I could write an orchestrated version of Mary Had a Little Lamb. That doesn't say much at all about the underlying material. It just means that you can map the melody to whatever instruments, the other lines onto other instruments, find you have a few instruments left over to write some new harmonies into, and add a couple flourishes (stereotypical or not, depends on how well it was done), and BAM. Orchestrated version.
There's not really anything inherently unique to VGM, aside from extramusical associations to video games (and this aspect isn't trivial). There's some concert music out there that's written with a style seen in some VGM. Some of it's even written by people that write VGM.
I think perhaps you're confusing the content of good classical music (i.e. what makes it be considered one of the "fine arts", if you will...btw I'm not a fan of that phrase but whatever) with the kinds of commonly-occurring orchestral sounds that get associated with some of the body of classical music. Or maybe you didn't at all and this is exactly what you mean, and I'm being a prick about your choice of words for "that grand, classical feel."
As for having concerts for VGM, that they exist doesn't mean much in of itself other than the fact that it appeals to some people, and thus there's an audience and a demand, so they can sell tickets. (And I'm not trying to imply that if people like it, that means it sucks!) Uematsu concerts exist IMHO in large part because of Final Fantasy. I think in a parallel universe if he released albums of his FF music but they never got put into a video game (all his music released, but not in the games they're in IRL), much fewer people would care about him at all. Of course some people would care, and rightfully so, because he's really not bad. But the exposure to have concerts of his music?
This was what I was getting at when I was comparing him to other VGM composers. FF is more popular -> Uematsu gets more representation. Uematsu stuff is easier to remember because melodies are relatively easy to remember compared to background parts -> Uematsu gets disproportionate representation compared to the overall quality of the work compared to other peoples'.
I'm not trying to diss on Uematsu compared to other VGM composers, just to put his success in a different perspective (because IMHO he's way above average but not way above everybody else).
edit: actually HamerD, I'm going to take a few shots at you now anyway because I'm bored. + Show Spoiler +
To start off I probably need to explain a part of my perspective in case anybody missed it. If a movie has awesome car chases and explosions, and little else, that doesn't make it "good", meaningful, deep, challenging. You're not going to interact with it or think about it much at all. It's just going to give you another explosion. That makes it good for entertaining yourself for a couple hours, and probably very good at what it was trying to achieve. It's the same thing for popular music.
With classical music you are allowed a huge amount of room to prod in all directions; and therefore in individual sections you are less scrutinized.
Yeah but if you think there's plenty of people like me and more extreme than me out there doing all sorts of analysis (for their degrees too), than certainly all those individual sections have been scrutinized. You don't think Shakespeare has been more scrutinized than Stephen King?
It was the party music of the day, and most of the composers just ripped out pieces every few weeks.
Sure. The vast majority of classical music out there relatively sucks and that's why nobody cares about those pieces anymore. So you don't hear them.
Chuck in enough notes that are in key and you have a mozart concerto, basically. It's all really formulaic stuff.
No, you get a piece of crap unless you're really really lucky. You can tell the difference easily. And there's a reason why there's a consensus agreement that most of Mozart's earlier music is worse than his later music, even though all of his music is just "enough notes that are in key". Even though I don't like Mozart's music I can still tell and describe ways in that it's of high quality.
On May 01 2008 01:21 Myrmidon wrote: As for having concerts for VGM, that they exist doesn't mean much in of itself other than the fact that it appeals to some people, and thus there's an audience and a demand, so they can sell tickets. (And I'm not trying to imply that if people like it, that means it sucks!) Uematsu concerts exist IMHO in large part because of Final Fantasy. I think in a parallel universe if he released albums of his FF music but they never got put into a video game (all his music released, but not in the games they're in IRL), much fewer people would care about him at all. Of course some people would care, and rightfully so, because he's really not bad. But the exposure to have concerts of his music?
This was what I was getting at when I was comparing him to other VGM composers. FF is more popular -> Uematsu gets more representation. Uematsu stuff is easier to remember because melodies are relatively easy to remember compared to background parts -> Uematsu gets disproportionate representation compared to the overall quality of the work compared to other peoples'.
I'm not trying to diss on Uematsu compared to other VGM composers, just to put his success in a different perspective (because IMHO he's way above average but not way above everybody else).
In a parallel universe Uematsu probably would have composed film soundtracks instead, and if they were quality pieces then indeed many people would care about him. Have you heard of Joe Hisaishi? He's a very well respected Japanese film composer and I think his music shares some traits with Uematsu. He gets plenty of exposure.
Actually, there's plenty of popular games that gets zero exposure. About 99% of games released aren't remembered for their music, because their music is NOT memorable! Do anyone besides the most die-hard fans actually care about the Halo, Gears of War, MGS soundtracks?
On May 01 2008 01:21 Myrmidon wrote: Yeah there's been several VGM orechestral-arrange concerts. I forget the name of a touring show I'd heard about in a blog post here (it'd be worth reposting in this thread), but I've heard parts of a few of them. And some games come out with soundtracks that may or may not be orchestral, piano, or other type of arrangements.
But I don't think you've addressed the issue. Any music at all can be orchestrated. I could write an orchestrated version of Mary Had a Little Lamb. That doesn't say much at all about the underlying material. It just means that you can map the melody to whatever instruments, the other lines onto other instruments, find you have a few instruments left over to write some new harmonies into, and add a couple flourishes (stereotypical or not, depends on how well it was done), and BAM. Orchestrated version.
There's not really anything inherently unique to VGM, aside from extramusical associations to video games (and this aspect isn't trivial). There's some concert music out there that's written with a style seen in some VGM. Some of it's even written by people that write VGM.
I think perhaps you're confusing the content of good classical music (i.e. what makes it be considered one of the "fine arts", if you will...btw I'm not a fan of that phrase but whatever) with the kinds of commonly-occurring orchestral sounds that get associated with some of the body of classical music. Or maybe you didn't at all and this is exactly what you mean, and I'm being a prick about your choice of words for "that grand, classical feel."
Okay... unless you are actually a music major, play music for a living, or are heavily invested into classical music in one way or another, all you really "get" from classical music is that "feel". The melodies in most classical pieces aren't exactly extraordinary IMO, and there's plenty of film, game soundtracks, and even mainstream music that has more pleasing melodies to the ear. As for harmonies, it's not like most people will actually understand or appreciate the intricacies and how they are being used in a Mozart concerto.
How do you define "good" classical music? Just because a classical piece is incredibly complex and full of harmonies, it doesn't make it inherently superior to another simpler piece of work. As an example, Fur Elise is an incredibly simple piece, but just look how popular it is and how it can draw emotions from people listening to it. Sometimes elegance is best.
As another example, opera is sometimes considered a "fine art". Personally, I find it very distasteful, as do countless others. Really, the only reason it's labeled as such is because the rich and the elite in the past declared it to be so, and of course they shaped society. Clearly, they needed to have musical tastes that were above those of "common folk" to reinforce their egos. This applies to classical music to an extent as well.
In the end, what is the purpose of music? To evoke emotion in the listener, no? If it can achieve this in many or most people, then it is good music.
P.S. I suggest you try to find the OGC concerts, because they aren't just "substituting" some instruments like some other VGM concerts. Many pieces are actually orchestral compositions that simply contain within them some of the melodies from the source music. Most of the arrangements were done by composers who have a background in classical music.
On April 30 2008 21:46 teamsolid wrote: Okay... I don't know how this argument started, but if anyone has any doubts about the "musicality" of game music, just download and listen to the Orchestral Game Concerts. It's 5 discs of game music arranged into full orchestral pieces. Not only do you get that grand, classical feel, it also contains that uniqueness you can only find in game music.
Go download the OGC's (there's torrents out there) and listen for yourself. You just might be very surprised.
There have also been many Final Fantasy concerts consisting of purely Uematsu's work, which I also thought were pretty well done.
Nice find solid. But all the torrents for it seem to be dead. Where did you get your torrent?
I've had it since a long time ago. The only tracker that seems to have it now is www.Underground-Gamer.com. I guess either ask for an invite or just get use tracker checker and wait for a spot to open. Or find it from another P2P source like eMule.
This is getting to the point where we probably should have started a new thread. Oh well. + Show Spoiler +
Ah teamsolid, I probably was too unclear on a lot of points because a lot of the things you're saying agrees with me (and maybe what I said didn't come out that way). You might be right about the parallel universe success level, but that was just a poor example by me. Yeah, I'm a little familiar with Hisaishi from Ghibli movies like everyone else I guess, and you're characterization there is pretty astute. We may just be arguing semantics, but I'd say music from Halo etc. gets a lot of exposure because those games are popular, but I of course agree nobody cares about their music because it's not memorable and intended to be cared about.
"Good", deep, challenging music in the art music or classical music tradition (some say "pretentious", perhaps rightfully so) deftly presents and develops ideas through the language of notes and rests, leading them to inevitable, yet profound conclusions. It is nuanced and colored, with room for different valid interpretations, but it is not restricted by pleasantness of sound, complexity, length, or anything else. Good music uses repetition only for balance of form to create the framework from which the variations and developments spring forth. Good music is no more complex than it needs to be to handle its development. A simpler idea may be treated well with a simpler, shorter piece, but inevitably, the greatest masterpieces require deeper exploration to adequately handle the forces it pushes into motion. Effective music evokes emotions. The best music can make you question these emotions and lead you on a journey to find those answers.
As a funny coincidence, I was about to mention Für Elise as a piece that gets way too much attention relative to its merits. It's not bad, but there are reasons (okay, some of them not musical) why it's not a work or part of a work with an opus number.
It's unfortunate that so many people dismiss opera without even a minimal level of understanding of it (and I'm guilty of similar things myself), as some of the best music ever written was in operas. To be honest, I have no idea how operatic singing developed at all, as I also find many of the vocal types used in opera rather contrived. The vibrato they use is pretty ridiculous IMHO, even if it does help the voice project. And especially before the 1800's, opera librettos really sucked, and opera plots in general suck/sucked (no theater person would ever be interested in most of them) and are just excuses to motivate plotwise the next aria. But aside from these personal grievances about some of the aesthetics, I still appreciate good opera for its treatment of ideas, interesting extramusical associations with character and plot, melodies, orchestrations, etc., even if it's not my favorite. Now this is pretty off track.
I'll check out OGC then, thanks. Just to be clear, just because adaptations are more ambitious and deviate more from the source material, does not mean they are inherently better.
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: "Good", deep, challenging music in the art music or classical music tradition (some say "pretentious", perhaps rightfully so) deftly presents and develops ideas through the language of notes and rests, leading them to inevitable, yet profound conclusions. It is nuanced and colored, with room for different valid interpretations, but it is not restricted by pleasantness of sound, complexity, length, or anything else.
Inevitable, yet profound conclusions? I read that twice and I'm still not sure what you're trying to say there. So other types of music don't have carefully written notes or rests? They aren't nuanced or colored? They can't be interpreted in various ways?
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: Good music uses repetition only for balance of form to create the framework from which the variations and developments spring forth. Good music is no more complex than it needs to be to handle its development. A simpler idea may be treated well with a simpler, shorter piece, but inevitably, the greatest masterpieces require deeper exploration to adequately handle the forces it pushes into motion.
Okay, you kind of lost me there. Anyways, that's only one interpretation of what "good" music is.
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: Effective music evokes emotions. The best music can make you question these emotions and lead you on a journey to find those answers.
Now, here's a better definition, although still quite subjective. So in that case, the best music is hardly limited to classical music. I'm sure many people have been inspired by music from the Beatles, for instance, or any well-known artist, and found interest in music from there and became musicians themselves.
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: As a funny coincidence, I was about to mention Für Elise as a piece that gets way too much attention relative to its merits. It's not bad, but there are reasons (okay, some of them not musical) why it's not a work or part of a work with an opus number.
Yet it is probably better known than any of Beethoven's other symphonies (excluding 5th, 9th). It is also more memorable and evokes more emotion to me than his other symphonies. That alone gives it plenty of merit.
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: It's unfortunate that so many people dismiss opera without even a minimal level of understanding of it (and I'm guilty of similar things myself), as some of the best music ever written was in operas.
Again, "best music" according to who? According to the rich and the elitists in the past centuries, who needed a "refined taste" in music to distinguish themselves from the commoners? Well, I certainly don't think so.
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: To be honest, I have no idea how operatic singing developed at all, as I also find many of the vocal types used in opera rather contrived. The vibrato they use is pretty ridiculous IMHO, even if it does help the voice project. And especially before the 1800's, opera librettos really sucked, and opera plots in general suck/sucked (no theater person would ever be interested in most of them) and are just excuses to motivate plotwise the next aria. But aside from these personal grievances about some of the aesthetics, I still appreciate good opera for its treatment of ideas, interesting extramusical associations with character and plot, melodies, orchestrations, etc., even if it's not my favorite. Now this is pretty off track.
It's your every right to enjoy and appreciate opera in whichever way you wish to. At the same time, it's my right to say that it sucks. Similarly, it's your right to bash Uematsu's work in whatever manner you choose, and my right to appreciate/defend it.
I'm fine with that so long as you don't claim that your tastes are "superior" to mine, because then that becomes a personal insult.
On May 01 2008 03:58 Myrmidon wrote: I'll check out OGC then, thanks. Just to be clear, just because adaptations are more ambitious and deviate more from the source material, does not mean they are inherently better.
I think this is my last response in this series, so respond to and interpret this as you will. And again, I'm being sincere with these questions, and I appreciate people taking them seriously too, because I've struggled with some of the answers myself.
Do you believe in art criticism? That people who are experts on a subject have some grounds for authority when they say something is good or bad? Is the opinion of experts worth more than the opinion of laypeople? Do you trust the opinion of somebody whose job it is to watch movies and review them or that of one of your friends who knows what you like (think about why, and how valid these two sources are)? Do you believe that Milton was a good writer? Michelangelo could sculpt and paint well? Why? Do you believe music can be good without you liking it? Can music be good if most people don't like it?
When I say something is "good" or musically significant in the advancement of music as art, it's only my opinion, but it's an opinion that comes from the musically trained camp, the view that coincides with most music critics, educators, performers. It's also the opinion of people who just want to appear to be high-class ("rich and elitists of past centuries"). And maybe the opinion of some untrained ears too.
The question, then, is why there is a consensus among most experts. Is it just because they've brainwashed each other? Do they recognize qualities among music that other people don't? If they do, is it just bullshit anyway?
But a valid point you bring up is the value of accessibility in art. Of what worth is "good" music if nobody wants to listen to it?
On May 01 2008 05:49 Myrmidon wrote: Do you believe in art criticism? That people who are experts on a subject have some grounds for authority when they say something is good or bad?
Only to a certain extent. You'll never find a "review" of a painting. Art is mostly subjective, but it does have a few certain objective components, because think about it:
Why do we enjoy listening to music in the first place? It's because it was programmed into us by nature, our genes. It's the same reason we enjoy sex, or certain foods. Why are certain harmonies more pleasurable to listen to than others, again it's in your genes.
Everyone will agree that random notes played on a piano is not good music, but people will of course have unique tastes in music when it comes to the specifics, because we are all different.
Is the opinion of experts worth more than the opinion of laypeople? Do you trust the opinion of somebody whose job it is to watch movies and review them or that of one of your friends who knows what you like (think about why, and how valid these two sources are)?
Yes, but not much more so, only because they have more experience in the field, . I will still take their opinions with a grain of salt, because they are still people, with their own subjective preferences much like other individuals. The collective opinion is far more important, because humans are conformists by nature.
Do you believe that Milton was a good writer?
Don't know him.
Michelangelo could sculpt and paint well? Why?
No opinion. My only view is that other people think he sculpts well, so I have a preconceived notion that he sculpts and paints well.
Do you believe music can be good without you liking it?
Yes.
Can music be good if most people don't like it?
If most people are indifferent to it (or simply prefer other types of music), but some people like it a lot, then I'd say it can be. If most people hate it, and only a few people like it, then no (or at least the bad outweighs the good).
When I say something is "good" or musically significant in the advancement of music as art, it's only my opinion, but it's an opinion that comes from the musically trained camp, the view that coincides with most music critics, educators, performers. It's also the opinion of people who just want to appear to be high-class ("rich and elitists of past centuries"). And maybe the opinion of some untrained ears too.
If you mean good to be synonymous with historically significant in terms of music, then I would most definitely agree.
The question, then, is why there is a consensus among most experts. Is it just because they've brainwashed each other? Do they recognize qualities among music that other people don't? If they do, is it just bullshit anyway?
Good classical music is definitely good music, but it is also missing many elements found in other genres of music: It will never have the rhythm or beat of rap music. The melodies are not usually as pleasant as in a lot of modern music (A great melody evokes more emotion in me than any amount of harmonizing or whatever). It lacks variety and can eventually get tiresome after repeated listening. It doesn't go along well with most vocals. And so on.
Basically, different types of music have strengths and weaknesses. Therefore, people can have valid differing personal preferences. Which experts are you talking about? Classical musicians?
If you asked a hip-hop producer what's the best type of music, I doubt he'd answer classical. Ask a musical artist what his/her main inspirations are, and he'll usually name other musical artists. Rarely will they name Beethoven or Mozart.
Learning about classic music is essential to learning to compose music. It's the language which music is built on, just like you have to learn arithmetic, geometry or calculus before you can get anywhere in mathematics. That doesn't mean everyone has to like listening to it over other music.
But a valid point you bring up is the value of accessibility in art. Of what worth is "good" music if nobody wants to listen to it?
I could basically condense my point down to: find me a person who can write more heart-rending ballads, uplifting uptempos and energetic battle music with style and originality like Uematsu. Similarly find me someone who can write a song that literally jumps up the quality of a game like Uematsu.
It's like comparing The Beach Boys to Mozart. Could Mozart really write as good music as The Beach Boys? Could he actually come up with as good hooks and lines and melodies? I highly doubt it, personally. But then again, you have to have the same opinion as me (the beach boys> mozart) for any of that to count. Same goes for the beatles etc.
ps from a technical standpoint, myrmidon, uematsu is the best in my mind because he dances around cliche so expertly- he uses typical chord sequences and structures, but puts his own spin on them and really brings out the best aspects of whatever typical line he chooses to use.
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Hey my old thread! I was thinking of bumping it too, but it didn't seem to be getting much interest after a while, except for a couple of people (which defeats the purpose of the list) so I decided not to. Maybe some newcomers might be interested.
Oh yeah, and fusion, I listened to the songs you recommended. The BoF song would be so good, if only it didn't loop so quickly. Did you listen to Castlevania SOTN - Lost Paintings and Dances of the Pales? The two songs seem similar to the style of music in the 3 songs you recommended.
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Approved: (9) Starcraft - Terran 1 I want to approve the portal song, but I don't think it has lasting appeal so I won't. Nominated: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Zelda's Lullaby I can't believe no-one has nominated this, I hope it gets many votes fast. It's weird but it's just so peaceful and sad at the same time if you get what I mean. You can't help but be moved by it, an amazing song. Also it is the main theme from what many consider (myself included) to be the greatest game of all time.
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Personally I think that there is no "greatest song" of videogames ever. They re all great music, just different. Its pretty much similar as if you were to ask, what is the best kind of music. Some people would tell you, hip-hop all the way, while others would say deathmetal or classical. You see its only a matter of taste because all of theese genres are great in their own respects.
There's no way the Terran theme isn't on the list yet. This is an egregious oversight I intend to correct. Approved: Starcraft - Terran 1 Approved: Portal - Still Alive
EPT
.![[image loading]](http://www.jpopinfo.com/images/ayumihamasaki.jpg)
. (It's the first song in 
Just wanted to update the approval list and approve a few of my faves.
