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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 807

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2267 Posts
May 05 2025 06:25 GMT
#16121
On May 05 2025 00:44 Sent. wrote:
Russian propagandists like to play up the Polish-Lithuanian historical claims to manufacture a threat to their western regions but PLC being the most powerful country in Europe is not exactly a fact. It's a debatable opinion at best, even if you exclude Turkey despite its capital being in Europe at the time.


PLC was pretty shitty in economy, science and infrastructure, only being competent (more or less) in military metters, and only as far as the national armies weren't a thing. Beyond that, the notion we have some claims is so ludicrous it's actualy offensive, because if try to paint us as petty as Russians.
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11508 Posts
May 05 2025 07:07 GMT
#16122
On May 05 2025 15:25 hitthat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2025 00:44 Sent. wrote:
Russian propagandists like to play up the Polish-Lithuanian historical claims to manufacture a threat to their western regions but PLC being the most powerful country in Europe is not exactly a fact. It's a debatable opinion at best, even if you exclude Turkey despite its capital being in Europe at the time.


PLC was pretty shitty in economy, science and infrastructure, only being competent (more or less) in military metters, and only as far as the national armies weren't a thing. Beyond that, the notion we have some claims is so ludicrous it's actualy offensive, because if try to paint us as petty as Russians.


When you think real life is EU4. "They got a claim on our province, that makes them a threat!"

Meanwhile they just send their spymaster over to fabricate a claim on Ukraine, but the fucked up and still declared the no CB war and got hit with the stab hit and lots of infamy.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17257 Posts
May 06 2025 13:52 GMT
#16123
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-army-have-video-game-like-digital-weapons-store-deadly-realistic/

Ender's Game in real life soon. Ukraine is now gamifying the war.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8518 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-06 14:46:34
May 06 2025 14:12 GMT
#16124
great article. yesterday even Austrian daily DerStandard had a piece due to a MaguraV7 downing a Su-30 and the insane efficiency this represents. basically around 300k USD vs 50mio. USD.

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:lyjr5pm3xljkxopg7hl2lday/post/3lob3ax4o222i

Russians are freaking out apparently on Telegram at how much ahead UKR is, as they are rewriting the rules of war.

//edit: as impressive and awesome the technology is... ridiculously scary is this "incentive structure"...

CallOfDuty but with terrible consequences

//edit2: from the politico article as I am torn on the message there.

The ability to get points for killing enemy troops is also spurring competition among units; so far about 90 percent of the army's drone units have scored points. In fact, they are logging so many hits that the government has had to revamp the logistics of drone deliveries to get more of them to points-heavy units.

“They started killing so quickly that Ukraine does not have time to deliver new drones,” Fedorov said.

It also helps improve the military's verified data on the destruction of Russian targets in real time — boosting battlefield awareness.

The Ukrainian government is continually tweaking the system to make it deadlier.

“For example, we have increased the number of points for infantry elimination from two to six, and that has doubled the number of destroyed enemies in one month,” Fedorov said. “This is not just a system of motivation, this is a mechanism that changes the rules of war.”


I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"... fuck war is what I want to say basically and the fucktard in the Kremlin who started it. it all flows from there.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15328 Posts
May 06 2025 15:50 GMT
#16125
It's incredible how prescient sci-fi is once more.

South Korean gamers remote controlling drones in a hot war used to be a meme, now fully gamified enders game is reality.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8080 Posts
May 06 2025 15:56 GMT
#16126
On May 06 2025 22:52 Manit0u wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-army-have-video-game-like-digital-weapons-store-deadly-realistic/

Ender's Game in real life soon. Ukraine is now gamifying the war.


I learned about this a while ago. It's not quite as Black Mirror as it first seems. It is definitely gamifying war, but it's not like every buffoon with a gopro can participate. It's for drone operators only, and the idea is to make the effective units even more effective, by giving them the good stuff. And the way to measure that is by sending in videos of effective target strikes
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11838 Posts
May 06 2025 16:00 GMT
#16127
On May 07 2025 00:56 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2025 22:52 Manit0u wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-army-have-video-game-like-digital-weapons-store-deadly-realistic/

Ender's Game in real life soon. Ukraine is now gamifying the war.


I learned about this a while ago. It's not quite as Black Mirror as it first seems. It is definitely gamifying war, but it's not like every buffoon with a gopro can participate. It's for drone operators only, and the idea is to make the effective units even more effective, by giving them the good stuff. And the way to measure that is by sending in videos of effective target strikes


Doesn't sending it in also mean they can distribute best practices?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23231 Posts
May 06 2025 16:28 GMT
#16128
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10705 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-06 16:40:09
May 06 2025 16:39 GMT
#16129
Jup. But in Enders Game they don't even know that they are fighting real targets, they think they are still in training. So imagine Call of Duty but you are actually shooting real people whiteout knowing it...
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42689 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-06 16:53:24
May 06 2025 16:48 GMT
#16130
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

Show nested quote +
I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

You're describing a centralized entity (the military) that intentionally monopolizes the issuing and redeeming of points. That's the exact opposite of crypto.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17992 Posts
May 06 2025 16:55 GMT
#16131
On May 07 2025 01:48 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

I'd say the Blockchain would be a pretty efficient technology for distributing points and allowing you to trade them in for more drones, drone upgrades, better camo suits, etc. Sure, there are other ways of doing this, but crypto also allows you to trade these points on a larger market, allowing people to buy in and support the war effort. I could absolutely see this working in a similar way to Helium or some of the other alt coins tied to actual products.

Is it ethical? Fuck no. I'm 100% with GH on this being some of the creepiest perverse incentive shit we've gotten so far: gamifying war, especially if we tie RL rewards to it is scary as fuck. But using the Ethereum network to facilitate it seems pretty straightforward and offers a lot of advantages over the government developing their own internal market place with custom code.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42689 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-06 17:14:12
May 06 2025 17:03 GMT
#16132
On May 07 2025 01:55 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 01:48 KwarK wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

I'd say the Blockchain would be a pretty efficient technology for distributing points and allowing you to trade them in for more drones, drone upgrades, better camo suits, etc. Sure, there are other ways of doing this, but crypto also allows you to trade these points on a larger market, allowing people to buy in and support the war effort. I could absolutely see this working in a similar way to Helium or some of the other alt coins tied to actual products.

Is it ethical? Fuck no. I'm 100% with GH on this being some of the creepiest perverse incentive shit we've gotten so far: gamifying war, especially if we tie RL rewards to it is scary as fuck. But using the Ethereum network to facilitate it seems pretty straightforward and offers a lot of advantages over the government developing their own internal market place with custom code.

What you're arguing would be effective is called a ledger and we've had ledgers for 600 years. They're really good, a ledger would be a good way of tracking points.

I think you're confusing ledgers with blockchains. Ledgers are efficient. Blockchains are, by design, hugely inefficient. That's part of the purpose of them.

Imagine if every time someone exchanged a paper $10 bill they wrote down the basics of the transaction, their name, the other party's name, the date, and then asked a shitload of other people to review the transaction and sign their names at the bottom. They buy something and do all of that. Then the shop deposits the $10 bill with the bank and does all the same. The bank then puts it in an ATM and does all the same. The ATM dispenses it and does all the same.

The $10 bill is going to very quickly become huge as people keep gluing additional paper to it so that it can contain all of the information. It'll be great for validating where it came from and why it's a real $10. You'll be able to see the full chain of custody back to when it was issued by the mint. It can't be counterfeited and everyone involved can authenticate everything. But that's an awful lot of additional work when all you want to do is pay someone a tip for delivering a pizza.

That's blockchain. Each block (transaction) is built upon the cumulative chain of blocks (previous transactions) in a permanent and verifiable chain that goes back to the beginning. The upsides to blockchain are that there is no requirement for a central authority to validate everything, it is self authenticating, and that it cannot be controlled or restricted by any central authority, the network of users creates a distributed pool of cosigners. The downside is that it is hugely inefficient for any possible use case.

What GH has done is the same thing a lot of tech illiterate randos do, they use crypto and blockchain as scary tech buzzwords. But what he went on to describe is the system you get at Dave & Busters, you engage in an activity on behalf of the establishment, the establishment you're at issues you points for success, and then you redeem your points with that same establishment for rewards.

You can have all the same scary Black Mirror "get a 10 kill multistreak and you can call in an air strike" bullshit without involving crypto. That's the part you're into. The perverse gameification of killing. You can agree with GH about all of that while recognizing that this is the worst possible use case of a crypto. You wouldn't want the enemy involved in validation of point issuance transactions. This is a token system that is by definition and by design highly centralized, there's a central entity (the ministry of defence) issuing tokens and redeeming them.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25334 Posts
May 06 2025 17:10 GMT
#16133
War is inherently horrific, a good way to mitigate that is for one side of the ledger to be good at prosecuting it.

Providing incentive to be better, fine by me provided you don’t incentivise atrocity to ‘better your score’ or whatever. That brings rather obvious problems.

We’ve just had VE there, many, many men just thrown into meat grinders. On an ethical basis is prosecuting war in that manner really any worse?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23231 Posts
May 06 2025 17:25 GMT
#16134
On May 07 2025 01:55 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 01:48 KwarK wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

I'd say the Blockchain would be a pretty efficient technology for distributing points and allowing you to trade them in for more drones, drone upgrades, better camo suits, etc. Sure, there are other ways of doing this, but crypto also allows you to trade these points on a larger market, allowing people to buy in and support the war effort. I could absolutely see this working in a similar way to Helium or some of the other alt coins tied to actual products.

Is it ethical? Fuck no. I'm 100% with GH on this being some of the creepiest perverse incentive shit we've gotten so far: gamifying war, especially if we tie RL rewards to it is scary as fuck. But using the Ethereum network to facilitate it seems pretty straightforward and offers a lot of advantages over the government developing their own internal market place with custom code.
Not just "the war effort" but entities (individuals, corporations, countries, AI?) could put out "missions" and/or "bounties" for anything and anyone could be interested in completing the missions for any reason. Which may end up being meeting their basic material needs in a society that doesn't provide for them otherwise.

Sigh... dark days ahead.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11838 Posts
May 06 2025 17:35 GMT
#16135
The model you describe is how modern crime works. You have a central leadership with very few followers, a small gang. You can still control a huge area since you just create a gig to kill the opposition and people pick the gig up. Basically what is talked about in cyberpunk.

For wars it doesn't really work on the front line. You need hundreds of thousands of people day in and day out. That isn't a gig economy.

If you instead want to assassinate or sabotage inside the other country. Lean on their criminal element being decentralized and offer the people involved in that economy gigs to kill generals.
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2555 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-06 17:59:01
May 06 2025 17:58 GMT
#16136
On May 07 2025 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 01:55 Acrofales wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:48 KwarK wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

I'd say the Blockchain would be a pretty efficient technology for distributing points and allowing you to trade them in for more drones, drone upgrades, better camo suits, etc. Sure, there are other ways of doing this, but crypto also allows you to trade these points on a larger market, allowing people to buy in and support the war effort. I could absolutely see this working in a similar way to Helium or some of the other alt coins tied to actual products.

Is it ethical? Fuck no. I'm 100% with GH on this being some of the creepiest perverse incentive shit we've gotten so far: gamifying war, especially if we tie RL rewards to it is scary as fuck. But using the Ethereum network to facilitate it seems pretty straightforward and offers a lot of advantages over the government developing their own internal market place with custom code.
Not just "the war effort" but entities (individuals, corporations, countries, AI?) could put out "missions" and/or "bounties" for anything and anyone could be interested in completing the missions for any reason. Which may end up being meeting their basic material needs in a society that doesn't provide for them otherwise.

Sigh... dark days ahead.


Is this not already the case, and is cash not just better for this?

I could 'put out a hit' right now for someone to shit on my neighbour's doorstep. If I offer cash, there's no way for anyone to track the cash back to me. If I offer crypto, the transfer from my wallet to another wallet exists as a fingerprint forever. I'm protected (as best I understand?) by the anonymity of my wallet, but that's still a note related to my crime on the coin forever.

Now, nobody is likely to put in the work to find and track that specific crypto and tie it to me, but that fingerprint still exists. If I were in that situation I'd be more worried about the power of AI to scour the blockchain and find that fingerprint than I am about AI offering someone 100 bucks to shit on my doorstep.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8080 Posts
May 06 2025 18:14 GMT
#16137
On May 07 2025 01:00 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 00:56 Excludos wrote:
On May 06 2025 22:52 Manit0u wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-army-have-video-game-like-digital-weapons-store-deadly-realistic/

Ender's Game in real life soon. Ukraine is now gamifying the war.


I learned about this a while ago. It's not quite as Black Mirror as it first seems. It is definitely gamifying war, but it's not like every buffoon with a gopro can participate. It's for drone operators only, and the idea is to make the effective units even more effective, by giving them the good stuff. And the way to measure that is by sending in videos of effective target strikes


Doesn't sending it in also mean they can distribute best practices?


Correct. It's also a means to gather and analyze data
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23231 Posts
May 06 2025 18:43 GMT
#16138
On May 07 2025 02:58 Fleetfeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:55 Acrofales wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:48 KwarK wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

I'd say the Blockchain would be a pretty efficient technology for distributing points and allowing you to trade them in for more drones, drone upgrades, better camo suits, etc. Sure, there are other ways of doing this, but crypto also allows you to trade these points on a larger market, allowing people to buy in and support the war effort. I could absolutely see this working in a similar way to Helium or some of the other alt coins tied to actual products.

Is it ethical? Fuck no. I'm 100% with GH on this being some of the creepiest perverse incentive shit we've gotten so far: gamifying war, especially if we tie RL rewards to it is scary as fuck. But using the Ethereum network to facilitate it seems pretty straightforward and offers a lot of advantages over the government developing their own internal market place with custom code.
Not just "the war effort" but entities (individuals, corporations, countries, AI?) could put out "missions" and/or "bounties" for anything and anyone could be interested in completing the missions for any reason. Which may end up being meeting their basic material needs in a society that doesn't provide for them otherwise.

Sigh... dark days ahead.


Is this not already the case, and is cash not just better for this?

I could 'put out a hit' right now for someone to shit on my neighbour's doorstep. If I offer cash, there's no way for anyone to track the cash back to me. If I offer crypto, the transfer from my wallet to another wallet exists as a fingerprint forever. I'm protected (as best I understand?) by the anonymity of my wallet, but that's still a note related to my crime on the coin forever.

Now, nobody is likely to put in the work to find and track that specific crypto and tie it to me, but that fingerprint still exists. If I were in that situation I'd be more worried about the power of AI to scour the blockchain and find that fingerprint than I am about AI offering someone 100 bucks to shit on my doorstep.

Crypto just gives you something that you can relatively easily move anywhere in the world without worrying about SWIFT, BRICS Pay, or whatever. It's less about anonymity, and more about no one being able to stop the transfers to anywhere/anyone in the world.

I'm just imagining an app that anyone in the world can log onto, seems crypto would be more practical than cash logistically and more robust than a single country or corporation issued points. I could see factionalized networks still being a thing though.

Russia would have a space in the app that basically takes what they are already offering for recruitment and makes it so anyone can sign up and get paid right through the app. Then use the credits they get to choose various equipment/deployment options based on which mission they signed up for and the "class" they chose/were assigned.

I haven't given this a great deal of thought, but it is just setting off all sorts of alarms for me.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4773 Posts
May 06 2025 18:45 GMT
#16139
On May 07 2025 02:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

What you're arguing would be effective is called a ledger for 600 years. They're really good, a ledger would be a good way of tracking points.

I think you're confusing ledgers with blockchains. Ledgers are efficient. Blockchains are, by design, hugely inefficient. That's part of the purpose of them.

Imagine if every time someone exchanged a paper $10 bill they wrote down the basics of the transaction, their name, the other party's name, the date, and then asked a shitload of other people to review the transaction and sign their names at the bottom. They buy something and do all of that. Then the shop deposits the $10 bill with the bank and does all the same. The bank then puts it in an ATM and does all the same. The ATM dispenses it and does all the same.

The $10 bill is going to very quickly become huge as people keep gluing additional paper to it so that it can contain all of the information. It'll be great for validating where it came from and why it's a real $10. You'll be able to see the full chain of custody back to when it was issued by the mint. It can't be counterfeited and everyone involved can authenticate everything. But that's an awful lot of additional work when all you want to do is pay someone a tip for delivering a pizza.

That's blockchain. Each block (transaction) is built upon the cumulative chain of blocks (previous transactions) in a permanent and verifiable chain that goes back to the beginning. The upsides to blockchain are that there is no requirement for a central authority to validate everything, it is self authenticating, and that it cannot be controlled or restricted by any central authority, the network of users creates a distributed pool of cosigners. The downside is that it is hugely inefficient for any possible use case.

What GH has done is the same thing a lot of tech illiterate randos do, they use crypto and blockchain as scary tech buzzwords. But what he went on to describe is the system you get at Dave & Busters, you engage in an activity on behalf of the establishment, the establishment you're at issues you points for success, and then you redeem your points with that same establishment for rewards.

You can have all the same scary Black Mirror "get a 10 kill multistreak and you can call in an air strike" bullshit without involving crypto. That's the part you're into. The perverse gameification of killing. You can agree with GH about all of that while recognizing that this is the worst possible use case of a crypto. You wouldn't want the enemy involved in validation of point issuance transactions. This is a token system that is by definition and by design highly centralized, there's a central entity (the ministry of defence) issuing tokens and redeeming them.

I don't think any "usecase" on Solana cares for its intended use though, they just want to use the tech because it's hot. And nothing's hotter than Crypto RL FFA chain 9000. That'll be something that rakes in 10's of billions of dollars. There will probably be hit lists for famous or important people (a most wanted list), a leader board, a daily hit target, etc. And then it will be rugged. The only reason it will initially rake in so much is because of its premise: "why rug what can kill you!?" But they'll do it anyway because they're greedy techbro scammers.
Taxes are for Terrans
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2555 Posts
May 06 2025 19:58 GMT
#16140
On May 07 2025 03:43 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2025 02:58 Fleetfeet wrote:
On May 07 2025 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:55 Acrofales wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:48 KwarK wrote:
On May 07 2025 01:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not familiar with Enders Game, but anyone that's spent any time in a Call of Duty lobby should know this is bad news for humanity.

I mean I get it you want to win and its war and all. but there is another cost associated in making the killing "fun and rewarding"

Ohh man, I don't think people (including myself) have even scratched the surface of the Pandora's box this opens + Show Spoiler +
(or is indicative of having been opened elsewhere/otherwise)


Only a matter of time until the "points" can turn into crypto that's used to literally buy loadouts, air drops, and "killstreaks". Missions can be given through any entity with access to crypto and Reward Points can be "redeemed" by any entity with the "goods" requested and the willingness/capacity to turn the crypto into weapons on-site.

Why would crypto be involved here? What value would you get from a distributed decentralized trustless ledger? This is just earning and redeeming points, 1970s arcade style.

I'd say the Blockchain would be a pretty efficient technology for distributing points and allowing you to trade them in for more drones, drone upgrades, better camo suits, etc. Sure, there are other ways of doing this, but crypto also allows you to trade these points on a larger market, allowing people to buy in and support the war effort. I could absolutely see this working in a similar way to Helium or some of the other alt coins tied to actual products.

Is it ethical? Fuck no. I'm 100% with GH on this being some of the creepiest perverse incentive shit we've gotten so far: gamifying war, especially if we tie RL rewards to it is scary as fuck. But using the Ethereum network to facilitate it seems pretty straightforward and offers a lot of advantages over the government developing their own internal market place with custom code.
Not just "the war effort" but entities (individuals, corporations, countries, AI?) could put out "missions" and/or "bounties" for anything and anyone could be interested in completing the missions for any reason. Which may end up being meeting their basic material needs in a society that doesn't provide for them otherwise.

Sigh... dark days ahead.


Is this not already the case, and is cash not just better for this?

I could 'put out a hit' right now for someone to shit on my neighbour's doorstep. If I offer cash, there's no way for anyone to track the cash back to me. If I offer crypto, the transfer from my wallet to another wallet exists as a fingerprint forever. I'm protected (as best I understand?) by the anonymity of my wallet, but that's still a note related to my crime on the coin forever.

Now, nobody is likely to put in the work to find and track that specific crypto and tie it to me, but that fingerprint still exists. If I were in that situation I'd be more worried about the power of AI to scour the blockchain and find that fingerprint than I am about AI offering someone 100 bucks to shit on my doorstep.

Crypto just gives you something that you can relatively easily move anywhere in the world without worrying about SWIFT, BRICS Pay, or whatever. It's less about anonymity, and more about no one being able to stop the transfers to anywhere/anyone in the world.

I'm just imagining an app that anyone in the world can log onto, seems crypto would be more practical than cash logistically and more robust than a single country or corporation issued points. I could see factionalized networks still being a thing though.

Russia would have a space in the app that basically takes what they are already offering for recruitment and makes it so anyone can sign up and get paid right through the app. Then use the credits they get to choose various equipment/deployment options based on which mission they signed up for and the "class" they chose/were assigned.

I haven't given this a great deal of thought, but it is just setting off all sorts of alarms for me.


The alarms feel similar to "Videogames cause violence" in my gut - In this case it's under the blanket of 'war is horrible', and yet the general tenor is still unsupportive unease here. I think invoking the idea of a slippery slope here is fair enough, but not something that's going to spark an alarm for me immediately - I think I rather the reality where this is happening and is publicly documented, than the one where it's happening clandestinely and not in support of war.
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