EPTDon't you have a genocide to support? Go suck your leader's cock.
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amazing propaganda work! (they probably quote this too)
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 784
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npnl19
Russian Federation27 Posts
thank you! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On March 01 2025 21:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Zelensky has to explain to many Ukrainian families whose 20 year old sons just died on the promise of defending the Ukraine why Zelensky surrendered a piece of the Ukraine. The 1 hour meandering press conference put on by Trump/Vance/Zelensky is the beginning of that process. Remember, Donald Trump loves the UFC and the WWF. The circus atmosphere of that press conference is right up his alley. This whole thing Trump's fingerprints all over it. I am pretty sure Trump told JD Vance what to say. What does he have to explain? Ukrainians largely seem to wanna fight, they’re under no illusions that they need foreign support to stay in said fight. Zelensky’s said both for years now. This isn’t news As for the rest, fuck me. Why should anyone ever have to factor in ‘they love professional wrestling’ into any kind of assessment of their foreign policy and negotiations? It’s utterly bizarre and ridiculous. So Zelensky has to be some model of propriety, but with Trump we gotta remember ‘oh well he loves wrestling’ every time he’s being a dick? Which is all the time incidentally. Utterly, completely ridiculous | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On March 01 2025 16:03 zeo wrote: Trump and JD may not hate Zelensky personally, but I think their animosity rests on him as a person in whom they see a reflection of their predecessors who created him. Along with Zelenskys infentile and spoiled personality, nutured by World leaders allowing him to lecture, beg and demand without restraint or tact... it made for a very real conversation in the last 10 minutes of that 50min meeting. Politically Zelensky is probably done after this fiasco, there are many people and interest groups in Kiev whose saftey and existance depend on good relations with the US. For the past decade uncle Sams money kept the party lights on, and when the cash stops flowing the lights go off. The same people keeping him in power after his term ended in May of last year. Lol. You’re fucking unbelievable | ||
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On March 02 2025 00:12 WombaT wrote: What does he have to explain? Ukrainians largely seem to wanna fight, they’re under no illusions that they need foreign support to stay in said fight. Zelensky’s said both for years now. And to add to this, people who are dangerously uninformed about the state of the conflict need to know this: Even IF the USA withdraws all support of Ukraine today, Ukraine has enough man and material to last well into 2026 at current consumption rates as long as the EU is willing to support their economy financially. In a lot of system categories, Ukraine has MORE equipment today than they did at the start of the war, and more modern ones as well. At current consumption rates, by all accounts and measurable metrics, Russia will run out significantly earlier than Ukraine does. Their soviet stockpiles are critically low and domestic production cannot hope to match expenditure. To paint a picture that Ukraine has to surrender if the USA withdraws their support is either disingenuous or uninformed. I suspect that Trump is under the same delusion of being in a much stronger position than they actually are. If the USA withdraws today, the most likely outcome with no further development would likely be a slowly decreasing intensity towards the end of the year with neither side being strong enough to push further into entrenched positions. This is not a desirable outcome for either party. I suspect that this is why Putin has instructed his bloated sock puppet to put pressure on Ukraine now. And I suspect that is also why Ukraine is somewhat eager to negotiate, to get something out of this before the conflict slowly freezes without any concessions or promises. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On March 01 2025 23:52 npnl19 wrote: + Show Spoiler + zeo is a Serbian who is mad that Nato stopped them from genociding their neighbours in the 90s. + Show Spoiler + Their heads will explode once they realize that Russia and the US are on the same side now + Show Spoiler + just seeing these quotes can make you level with schizophrenia of "europe" What the fuck are you talking about? Where’s Europe’s ‘schizophrenia’? Europe was happy to normalise relations, threw many an olive branch and Russia decided to reject any idea of normal relations. Instead, your state behaved like a cunt, congratulations. Pathetic, a 2nd rate power with a 3rd rate mentality. Apologies to the non-insane Russians out there, know you’re out there, albeit increasingly I don’t hear much from that sphere. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On March 01 2025 21:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Zelensky has to explain to many Ukrainian families whose 20 year old sons just died on the promise of defending the Ukraine why Zelensky surrendered a piece of the Ukraine. The 1 hour meandering press conference put on by Trump/Vance/Zelensky is the beginning of that process. Remember, Donald Trump loves the UFC and the WWF. The circus atmosphere of that press conference is right up his alley. This whole thing Trump's fingerprints all over it. I am pretty sure Trump told JD Vance what to say. Do you ever stop to realize that you often just construct narratives in your own mind? I see this a lot with you (And a lot of people on various forums as a whole, tbh); just grab on to the tiniest bit of idea, and run with it while constructing entire stories inside your own head to make it fit. Why not, instead of imagining that this is a scripted WWE bit, actually follow Occam's Razor and realise that the orange manchild simply isn't capable of diplomacy, and this is the natural result that was always going to happen? Trump is high on himself and his narcissism, and simply won't allow himself to be brought down to the same level as someone who fights for their country rather than their own bank account. He wanted to bully Zelenskyy into giving up "yuge deals!", and Zelenskyy was having none of it. This was incredibly predictable, although perhaps not in such a blown-up fashion. The good thing that's come out of this is that EU and NATO have banded closer together, and closer with Ukraine. They're having none of it. On a more local level, conservatives across US isn't fond of what happened either. While there's plenty of people who still follow the cult, there's also plenty who got their wakeup calls. Trump's approval took a sharp nosedive this week. | ||
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Yurie
12149 Posts
On March 02 2025 03:48 Excludos wrote: On a more local level, conservatives across US isn't fond of what happened either. While there's plenty of people who still follow the cult, there's also plenty who got their wakeup calls. Trump's approval took a sharp nosedive this week. That is strange to me. This was always part of what was going to happen with Trump elected. 1. Bad diplomacy of all types, excluding dictatorships which will be good relations but bad deals for US. 2. Decreased taxes on the rich. 3. Less support for the poor. 4. Maybe more tariffs. 5. More oppression of the poor and especially immigrants. Ukraine war we are seeing this directly in. Withdrawing US support due to it being expensive and wanting it financed by others is an understandable stance even if I don't agree with it. The problem is he can't release a simple press memo on that being what he wants and instead loses massively in public opinion, especially in Europe. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5201 Posts
With your logic the nation who moves first just always wins everything while everyone who'soved upon just loses.. everything? What a weak synthesis. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On March 02 2025 05:03 Yurie wrote: That is strange to me. This was always part of what was going to happen with Trump elected. 1. Bad diplomacy of all types, excluding dictatorships which will be good relations but bad deals for US. 2. Decreased taxes on the rich. 3. Less support for the poor. 4. Maybe more tariffs. 5. More oppression of the poor and especially immigrants. Ukraine war we are seeing this directly in. Withdrawing US support due to it being expensive and wanting it financed by others is an understandable stance even if I don't agree with it. The problem is he can't release a simple press memo on that being what he wants and instead loses massively in public opinion, especially in Europe. For anyone with two eyes and a set of functional brain cells, yes, that was always obvious. US have shown that people don't vote like that. They often care about one thing, bonus points if that thing is completely made up, and everything else doesn't matter. Then when "the things that doesn't matter" suddenly starts coming to light, they're the embodiment of shocked Pikachu face | ||
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ETisME
12842 Posts
On March 02 2025 05:04 Uldridge wrote: Jimmy. You can't explain that. Ever. Does every country always just fold when they get invaded then, via your logic, because you can't let your 20 year old sons die to the meatgrinder? Come on. What is this? With your logic the nation who moves first just always wins everything while everyone who'soved upon just loses.. everything? What a weak synthesis. Ukraine and Russia engaged in peace talk few days after the war. Not all war are fight to the last men. I see some mentioned Ukraine can still be in the war for a few more years, yes maybe they have the resources, but no way they can last another 3 years. the Ukrainians wants to make the war end quickly with negotiation. https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainians-poll/ The real issue with Ukraine is a lack of men, with conscription age dropped to 25. Both Biden and Trump requested to drop to 18 which was refused. > The narrative of fighting an existential war no longer seems to move the majority of Ukrainians. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2025/1/23/why-is-ukraine-struggling-to-mobilise-its-citizens-to-fight And that's the reality of it, the conscription number shows it clearly that Ukrainians aren't THAT motivated to fight, especially if they need to be in the battle front. If EU wants to support Zelenskyy and continue the war, then they should send troops. That's how they can get momentum back and regain grounds. Zelenskyy was there just for one diplomatic mission: Sign the deal, get US support and comes with EU support, and kickstart the negotiation to end the war. if he didn't want to take the deal, then just don't go or say it out right during the discussions. Instead of whatever happened. Literally one of the worst outcome. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8169 Posts
When i read zeo i feel like i went into some kind of rick and morty portal where slices of pizzas are making a phone call to order a large human with extra pepperoni. I have to say though that i have had that experience with Serbians many time. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17751 Posts
On March 02 2025 00:12 WombaT wrote: As for the rest, fuck me. Why should anyone ever have to factor in ‘they love professional wrestling’ into any kind of assessment of their foreign policy and negotiations? It’s utterly bizarre and ridiculous. welcome to the world of Donald Trump. his negotiation tactics are bizarre. this circus atmosphere is what Trump has been all about since 1988. why are you expecting it to stop in 2025? You think there is 0% probability JD Vance's speech was approved by the Donald? You think Vance just ad libbed taht whole finger pointing thing without Trump knowing in advance he was waiting for an opening to do this? Chances are that whole thing had to be vetted by Trump if not scripted by him. It sounded like Trump gave him the basic bullet points... and JD Vance just put it in his own words. "let me tell you something brother! don't come into the home of greatest leader on earth today brother ... and tell the heavyweight champion what to do brother!" LOL. This is great theatre. We will see what results it produces in the coming weeks. And, results are all that matters. If Trump manages to cobble together a peace plan... awesome. If some feelings get hurt along the way... meh. If his tactics are bizarre and unorthodox... i don't care and neither should any one else. Its been called "don's World order" named after pro wrestling's nWo. Awesome thumbnail. Is this art imitating life? or is it life imitating art? | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
201 Posts
What is there for Ukraine to fuck up when the United States is currently unable to show that they comprehend the fundamental reason why there cannot be lasting peace in the region (Putin/Russia). Say Trump gets a ceasefire through, what’s to stop Putin from trying again in 4 years after their economy has stopped overheating? Trump’s absolutely right they have a bad hand but when the United States is proving they have no intent of guaranteeing anything and purposely creating a false narrative around the war supporting the aggressor, there’s just no point to stay quiet and just sign a deal. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On March 02 2025 09:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: welcome to the world of Donald Trump. his negotiation tactics are bizarre. this circus atmosphere is what Trump has been all about since 1988. why are you expecting it to stop in 2025? You think there is 0% probability JD Vance's speech was approved by the Donald? You think Vance just ad libbed taht whole finger pointing thing without Trump knowing in advance he was waiting for an opening to do this? Chances are that whole thing had to be vetted by Trump if not scripted by him. It sounded like Trump gave him the basic bullet points... and JD Vance just put it in his own words. "let me tell you something brother! don't come into the home of greatest leader on earth today brother ... and tell the heavyweight champion what to do brother!" LOL. This is great theatre. We will see what results it produces in the coming weeks. And, results are all that matters. If Trump manages to cobble together a peace plan... awesome. If some feelings get hurt along the way... meh. If his tactics are bizarre and unorthodox... i don't care and neither should any one else. Its been called "don's World order" named after pro wrestling's nWo. Awesome thumbnail. Is this art imitating life? or is it life imitating art? Trump says what Trump wants. It’s not some WWE persona. It is what it is, for better or worse. Trump and Vance didn’t conspire to attack Zelensky publicly as part of some sports entertainment theatre hiding some , it’s how they see the world. It’s how their base sees the world. If he negotiates an acceptable peace settlement, hey fair play, I’m just extremely doubtful on that. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9243 Posts
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pmp10
3399 Posts
The rare earth minerals are hardly there. I bet both Zelensky and Trump know that. Trump likely doesn't care. It's a political 'win' he can sell to his base which allows him to pursue other options. Nobody in the US will check on the results in 5-10 years. But for Zelensky it's a real problem. It means that after few years of surveying there will be no long-term investments by US in Ukraine. Those 'people on the ground' will never materialize and so no reason for US involvement in any future invasion. No wonder he is desperate for written guarantees. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18412 Posts
On March 02 2025 16:11 pmp10 wrote: Another intresting point about the 'deal': The rare earth minerals are hardly there. I bet both Zelensky and Trump know that. Trump likely doesn't care. It's a political 'win' he can sell to his base which allows him to pursue other options. Nobody in the US will check on the results in 5-10 years. But for Zelensky it's a real problem. It means that after few years of surveying there will be no long-term investments by US in Ukraine. Those 'people on the ground' will never materialize and so no reason for US involvement in any future invasion. No wonder he is desperate for written guarantees. Seems irrelevant. Trump has fairly consistently shown he is clueless about the details and is mixing up "critical minerals" and "rare earth elements". The latter is a scientific descriptor of specific elements, the former is a political term that each country makes up for themselves, but are basically "minerals that are scarce, and are critically important for their economy". Ukraine has few REEs, but has a lot of graphite, lithium and titanium, as well as a whole bunch of other important metals. So even if the neodymium or ytterbium deposits disappoint, there are plenty of valuable ores. The article does point out an important issue and that is that nobody is going to invest in building mining infrastructure as long as the threat of war looms. That is why a deal is important to Ukraine. They'd happily sell their titanium, cobalt, lithium or graphite deposits if it means US guaranteeing Russia cannot invade again. A more worrying take is from this professor: https://news.northeastern.edu/2025/02/27/us-ukraine-critical-minerals-deal/ She seems intent on giving the most negative evaluation, even when she (and nobody else) knows how much there is of a certain mineral. She makes a good point about lithium, and to a lesser extent, titanium: the US can no doubt get what they need of those from easier places. If that turns out to be the case for all of Ukraine's mineral deposits, then yeah, a deal trading exploitation rights for security guarantees won't last long, and Ukraine will lose those guarantees. That would be bad. As would anything that puts that hard figure of 500B USD in stone. That is just a random number Trump invented. There might be 500B worth of minerals in commercially exploitable reserves. But actually mining them will take a long time. I'm guessing that is something Ukraine is actually banking on. | ||
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Slydie
1998 Posts
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ You can easily argue that the US has contributed less than it should, and a lot of US "aid" goes directly to fuel their own military industry. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On March 02 2025 09:49 ETisME wrote: Ukraine and Russia engaged in peace talk few days after the war. Not all war are fight to the last men. I see some mentioned Ukraine can still be in the war for a few more years, yes maybe they have the resources, but no way they can last another 3 years. the Ukrainians wants to make the war end quickly with negotiation. https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainians-poll/ The real issue with Ukraine is a lack of men, with conscription age dropped to 25. Both Biden and Trump requested to drop to 18 which was refused. > The narrative of fighting an existential war no longer seems to move the majority of Ukrainians. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2025/1/23/why-is-ukraine-struggling-to-mobilise-its-citizens-to-fight And that's the reality of it, the conscription number shows it clearly that Ukrainians aren't THAT motivated to fight, especially if they need to be in the battle front. If EU wants to support Zelenskyy and continue the war, then they should send troops. That's how they can get momentum back and regain grounds. Zelenskyy was there just for one diplomatic mission: Sign the deal, get US support and comes with EU support, and kickstart the negotiation to end the war. if he didn't want to take the deal, then just don't go or say it out right during the discussions. Instead of whatever happened. Literally one of the worst outcome. Dude, Ukraine doesn't even have enough equipment to arm the men they do have. What would be the point of lowering conscription age? It's insane to me to pretend that they aren't motivated to fight, after all that's happened. And at the end of the day, polls show the majority still wants to fight for their land, and they support Zelenskyy. Of course peace is preferred, nobody wants their brothers and sisters to die. But it can't be at any cost and no guarantee | ||
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ETisME
12842 Posts
On March 02 2025 18:57 Excludos wrote: Dude, Ukraine doesn't even have enough equipment to arm the men they do have. What would be the point of lowering conscription age? It's insane to me to pretend that they aren't motivated to fight, after all that's happened. And at the end of the day, polls show the majority still wants to fight for their land, and they support Zelenskyy. Of course peace is preferred, nobody wants their brothers and sisters to die. But it can't be at any cost and no guarantee Ukrainian poll numbers is from here: https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx Gully is a highly respected data research consultancy; ask any researcher or uni professor. This isn't pretend. Ukraine conscription effort wasn't as good as they wished, this is a known fact. Conscription is compulsory, has nothing to do with equipment. they want to lower the age to get more men. "nobody wants their brothers and sisters to die." and even less if they have to go to the frontline to die. My biggest issue with the whole situation, is that this is presented as existential threat for Europe and its values by EU leaders and Biden. So far I think only Macron (respect) has suggested they should consider sending deployments in some form. (not for peace keeping after the peace deal) That's when I would actually respect the EU and admit they aren't just doing a massive political show. now that Trump has pushed the EU to be more active, and we can expect a longer war, maybe it isn't impossible. Last time the proposal was rejected war 2024 Feb, so a year ago. | ||
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