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Canada11371 Posts
On March 01 2025 05:14 Sent. wrote:
The tweet does seem to be the correct response but Zelensky's reaction to Vance's attack was not. I think he should just alt f4 out of the conversation instead of trying to fight the hostile environment of that room.
Probably. But if you see the lines of reasoning Zelensky was going down, I think you can see he was trying to give evidence that we've already tried diplomacy and Putin simply doesn't care about diplomacy.
What he hadn't counted on is he was dealing with a pair of morons who wanted their egos stroked and there was no reasoning to be had.
(Well, JD probably isn't a moron, but he's willing to play the part to be the president's attack dog.)
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I thought it was going well, until the journalist shifted the tone, with the uniform talk and the endless question on "security". Trump even gave that journalist a look and tried to played it down later.
It's obvious that Ukraine wants security guarantee, and the US doesn't want to commit a long-term binding agreement, that can fast track them into a direct war against a nation with nuclear arsenal, under conditions they cannot control.
Trump wanted to have security through having direct American interest in Ukraine, it's a vague one, but definitely better than just a promise signed on paper. The US, Ukraine, EU then build up the peace over time under the new stable state.
So it all became a "yes" or "no" rather than having something to build on before it even get to negotiation stage with Russia.
Doesn't help that Vance chimed in to highlight this is a Trump gov and wanting to prove they are better than previous administration.
And Zelenskyy basically listing all the previous administration failures, and said he expect the same from Trump.
And it all turns into an ego contest.
I remember watching the Japan/US conference with the press all asking on the DOGE more than Japan and US relationship.
And when it finally came to asking Japan about potential tariff and how Japan will react etc,
Japan PM was smart enough to just shut it down with something like "we don't comment on speculation".
That's a smart response; it was obvious what some journalist was attempting to do.
Either way, all eyes on Turkey now.
On a side note, EU needs to seriously fix their energy supply and encourage Slovakia to source elsewhere.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-than-financial-aid-ukraine-report
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meh, there is a chance this thing was staged and Zelensky and Trump are playing the media morons. JD Vance's attack felt scripted. Vince Mcmahon taught Trump well.
This fake argument allows Zelensky to make compromises he was previously unable to make while saving face with his most loyal of his power base. It feels like Trump is playing fake bad guy wrestler.
This is what Trump is all about
They kicked him out of the white house? LOL, ya ok guys... i think you put a little too much mustard on that hot dog.
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On March 01 2025 09:52 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 05:14 Sent. wrote:
The tweet does seem to be the correct response but Zelensky's reaction to Vance's attack was not. I think he should just alt f4 out of the conversation instead of trying to fight the hostile environment of that room. Probably. But if you see the lines of reasoning Zelensky was going down, I think you can see he was trying to give evidence that we've already tried diplomacy and Putin simply doesn't care about diplomacy. What he hadn't counted on is he was dealing with a pair of morons who wanted their egos stroked and there was no reasoning to be had.
But why hadn't he counted on this? It's not like they suddenly became morons on the day.
The high-level sketch of that conversation has been predictable since 2016. Every world leader should know by now that if you need Trump's help from a position of weakness, you get down and you pucker up.
He was defensive from the beginning, which suggests he knew the whole thing was already dead. Perhaps he calculated that there was nothing to be gained from playing along, so he might as well clap back and salvage some points with anyone still sane and still watching.
If the deal was actually in play before the presser, he made a major mistake.
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Trump//Vance aspire to be a key energy supplier to Europe.
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-europe-gas-russia-energy-high-bills-ukraine-war-moscow/
Trump is going to end up getting his "American" LNG from Alberta, Canada. LOL. No need to "drill baby drill".
On March 01 2025 14:44 Belisarius wrote:
He was defensive from the beginning, which suggests he knew the whole thing was already dead. Perhaps he calculated that there was nothing to be gained from playing along, so he might as well clap back and salvage some points with anyone still sane and still watching.
i think he intentionally "lost" the argument knowing as you're speculating the thing was already dead.. Now he can tell his people that he is dealing with a crazy man in the white house and Putin is a psychotic savage willing to kill forever. Thus, the only logical thing he can do is make a compromise and give up land to save some lives. He can play like he is cornered.
Russia is getting a piece of the Ukraine.
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Trump and JD may not hate Zelensky personally, but I think their animosity rests on him as a person in whom they see a reflection of their predecessors who created him. Along with Zelenskys infentile and spoiled personality, nutured by World leaders allowing him to lecture, beg and demand without restraint or tact... it made for a very real conversation in the last 10 minutes of that 50min meeting.
Politically Zelensky is probably done after this fiasco, there are many people and interest groups in Kiev whose saftey and existance depend on good relations with the US. For the past decade uncle Sams money kept the party lights on, and when the cash stops flowing the lights go off. The same people keeping him in power after his term ended in May of last year.
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On March 01 2025 14:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote:meh, there is a chance this thing was staged and Zelensky and Trump are playing the media morons. JD Vance's attack felt scripted. Vince Mcmahon taught Trump well. This fake argument allows Zelensky to make compromises he was previously unable to make while saving face with his most loyal of his power base. It feels like Trump is playing fake bad guy wrestler. This is what Trump is all aboutThey kicked him out of the white house? LOL, ya ok guys... i think you put a little too much mustard on that hot dog.
I wish this was true but unlikely:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=ukraine ambassador&mid=2BC38CF00BE40DCA57022BC38CF00BE40DCA5702&ajaxhist=0
She facepalm'd the moment Zelenskyy said : "with guarantee", basically admitting he wouldn't ceasefire without it
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You can hear the talk has already broken down by the point that this clip starts. She looks like she is very uncomfortable with what is being said before anything about "guarantee". I'm guessing it ain't what Zelensky is saying that's making her uncomfortable, but seeing one of the hopes for her country break down would make almost anyone extremely uncomfortable.
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On March 01 2025 17:12 RenSC2 wrote:You can hear the talk has already broken down by the point that this clip starts. She looks like she is very uncomfortable with what is being said before anything about "guarantee". I'm guessing it ain't what Zelensky is saying that's making her uncomfortable, but seeing one of the hopes for her country break down would make almost anyone extremely uncomfortable.
Yes but also that was the moment Trump was to re-establish with Zelenskyy either he wants a ceasefire, the ceasefire Zelenskyy wants is "stop the war with guarantee", so the whole deal is off at that point
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There can be none cease fire without guarantees, Russia has repeatedly proven that agreements will not stop them from invading.
A cease fire without guarantees is just time for Russia to rebuild before going again.
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On March 01 2025 14:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote:meh, there is a chance this thing was staged and Zelensky and Trump are playing the media morons. JD Vance's attack felt scripted. Vince Mcmahon taught Trump well. This fake argument allows Zelensky to make compromises he was previously unable to make while saving face with his most loyal of his power base. It feels like Trump is playing fake bad guy wrestler. This is what Trump is all aboutThey kicked him out of the white house? LOL, ya ok guys... i think you put a little too much mustard on that hot dog.
If talks resume within 2 weeks (perhaps with a show of some European states begging Trump to relent) we can chalk it up to negotiating theatrics.
But there is also a reasonable chance that US aid to Ukraine ends entirely in that timeframe, leaving nothing to talk about anymore.
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On March 01 2025 16:03 zeo wrote:
Trump and JD may not hate Zelensky personally, but I think their animosity rests on him as a person in whom they see a reflection of their predecessors who created him. Along with Zelenskys infentile and spoiled personality, nutured by World leaders allowing him to lecture, beg and demand without restraint or tact... it made for a very real conversation in the last 10 minutes of that 50min meeting.
Politically Zelensky is probably done after this fiasco, there are many people and interest groups in Kiev whose saftey and existance depend on good relations with the US. For the past decade uncle Sams money kept the party lights on, and when the cash stops flowing the lights go off. The same people keeping him in power after his term ended in May of last year.
This post tells us more about your World view than anything about Zelensky. Even now, you are trying to fit this into your narrative of evil US influence that caused the war. It's fun seeing you wiggling, really.
Even if the US would cut off support you would probably still frame this as a Russian war against imperialism.
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On March 01 2025 16:03 zeo wrote:
Trump and JD may not hate Zelensky personally, but I think their animosity rests on him as a person in whom they see a reflection of their predecessors who created him. Along with Zelenskys infentile and spoiled personality, nutured by World leaders allowing him to lecture, beg and demand without restraint or tact... it made for a very real conversation in the last 10 minutes of that 50min meeting.
Politically Zelensky is probably done after this fiasco, there are many people and interest groups in Kiev whose saftey and existance depend on good relations with the US. For the past decade uncle Sams money kept the party lights on, and when the cash stops flowing the lights go off. The same people keeping him in power after his term ended in May of last year.
Zelinsky's support in Europe is at an all time high. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion he is "done". Zelinsky likely also has a lot of support in the US, in both parties, just not from the clowns on top.
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Zelensky has to explain to many Ukrainian families whose 20 year old sons just died on the promise of defending the Ukraine why Zelensky surrendered a piece of the Ukraine. The 1 hour meandering press conference put on by Trump/Vance/Zelensky is the beginning of that process.
Remember, Donald Trump loves the UFC and the WWF. The circus atmosphere of that press conference is right up his alley. This whole thing Trump's fingerprints all over it. I am pretty sure Trump told JD Vance what to say.
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On March 01 2025 21:12 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 16:03 zeo wrote:
Trump and JD may not hate Zelensky personally, but I think their animosity rests on him as a person in whom they see a reflection of their predecessors who created him. Along with Zelenskys infentile and spoiled personality, nutured by World leaders allowing him to lecture, beg and demand without restraint or tact... it made for a very real conversation in the last 10 minutes of that 50min meeting.
Politically Zelensky is probably done after this fiasco, there are many people and interest groups in Kiev whose saftey and existance depend on good relations with the US. For the past decade uncle Sams money kept the party lights on, and when the cash stops flowing the lights go off. The same people keeping him in power after his term ended in May of last year. Zelinsky's support in Europe is at an all time high. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion he is "done". Zelinsky likely also has a lot of support in the US, in both parties, just not from the clowns on top.
zeo is a Serbian who is mad that Nato stopped them from genociding their neighbours in the 90s. That is the lens through which he views everything. Nato bad because it was against us --> Russia good --> Ukraine bad --> Ukraine has already lost.
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On March 01 2025 21:46 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 21:12 Slydie wrote:On March 01 2025 16:03 zeo wrote:
Trump and JD may not hate Zelensky personally, but I think their animosity rests on him as a person in whom they see a reflection of their predecessors who created him. Along with Zelenskys infentile and spoiled personality, nutured by World leaders allowing him to lecture, beg and demand without restraint or tact... it made for a very real conversation in the last 10 minutes of that 50min meeting.
Politically Zelensky is probably done after this fiasco, there are many people and interest groups in Kiev whose saftey and existance depend on good relations with the US. For the past decade uncle Sams money kept the party lights on, and when the cash stops flowing the lights go off. The same people keeping him in power after his term ended in May of last year. Zelinsky's support in Europe is at an all time high. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion he is "done". Zelinsky likely also has a lot of support in the US, in both parties, just not from the clowns on top. zeo is a Serbian who is mad that Nato stopped them from genociding their neighbours in the 90s. That is the lens through which he views everything. Nato bad because it was against us --> Russia good --> Ukraine bad --> Ukraine has already lost.
Their heads will explode once they realize that Russia and the US are on the same side now. ;-)
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I think many pro-Russian Serbs love Russia way more than they dislike the US and the former should cancel out any other directives in their brain code. Tankies might have a problem with that but they have way more experience with defying logic, their heads should be safe.
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I'm not sure Zelensky was wrong. Trump is a bully, sucking up or being weak would not have the outburst but could be worse long term. often long term it works better to punch the bully in the face even if you lose the encounter.
Edit: Appeasing Trump will likely work as good as appeasing Putin.
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Russian Federation27 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +zeo is a Serbian who is mad that Nato stopped them from genociding their neighbours in the 90s.
+ Show Spoiler +Their heads will explode once they realize that Russia and the US are on the same side now
+ Show Spoiler +just seeing these quotes can make you level with schizophrenia of "europe"
User was warned for this post
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On March 01 2025 23:52 npnl19 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +zeo is a Serbian who is mad that Nato stopped them from genociding their neighbours in the 90s. Their heads will explode once they realize that Russia and the US are on the same side now just seeing these quotes can make you level with schizophrenia of "europe"
Don't you have a genocide to support? Go suck your leader's cock.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
