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United States41878 Posts
Europe needs to get out from under ITAR for sure. That's bad news for American manufacturers and for American soft power worldwide because ITAR gave them huge amounts of influence over how the militaries of their allies were used. The assumption of a broad alignment across the Atlantic where the specifics may vary but the teams were the same has been broken.
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On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Show nested quote +Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce.
Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later..
Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people!
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United States41878 Posts
On November 08 2024 04:51 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later.. Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people!
Daily reminder that the deal Trump gave to the ghostwriter of the Art of the Deal was the worst deal ever given in ghostwriting.
On August 04 2024 23:15 KwarK wrote:
Trump did zero research on what was normally paid to ghostwriters for their services before making a deal with his. He gave the guy named author credit on the book itself and a cut of the royalties. Trump is factually terribly at deals. The ghostwriter earned millions for a job that would have been around $10k fixed fee at the normal rate.
Trump subsequently attempted to renege on his deal, sued, and lost.
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On November 08 2024 04:51 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later.. Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people! No different from when he surrendered to the Taliban
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On November 08 2024 04:51 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later.. Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people!
This would be really sad if it came to pass. It would be like a big "fuck you" to all the people who died in this war this past years.
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On November 08 2024 05:38 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 04:51 Excludos wrote:On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later.. Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people! No different from when he surrendered to the Taliban
What was the name of the freedom fighters in the area that the US decided to just stab in the back? Wasn't that under Trump as well?
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On November 08 2024 06:50 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 05:38 Gorsameth wrote:On November 08 2024 04:51 Excludos wrote:On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later.. Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people! No different from when he surrendered to the Taliban What was the name of the freedom fighters in the area that the US decided to just stab in the back? Wasn't that under Trump as well?
The Kurds? That wasn’t Afghanistan, but we sure as hell abandoned them in Syria/Iraq.
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On November 08 2024 06:11 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 04:51 Excludos wrote:On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:Trump advisers already trying their best to give Putin everything he wants while pretending it's a diplomatic victory. Art of the deal in action. Trump Advisers Push to ‘Freeze’ War in Ukraine, Pause Kyiv’s Bid to Join NATO – WSJ Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump have put forward several proposals that would effectively freeze the war in Ukraine, solidifying Moscow’s territorial gains, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing anonymous sources close to Trump. Trump, who criticized outgoing President Joe Biden’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, vowed during his campaign to end the war before he takes office next January. He previously said that his “good relationship” with both President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be central to his ability to end the war quickly. According to WSJ, one proposal from within Trump’s transition team involves allowing Moscow to maintain control over 20% of Ukrainian territory, establishing a 1,300-kilometer (800 miles) “demilitarized zone” and blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership for 20 years — all in exchange for continued military aid to deter future Russian aggression. The plan does not include U.S. troops policing the demilitarized zone, nor funding from the U.S. or international bodies like the UN, a Trump transition team member said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British, and French to do it,” the person was quoted as saying. “We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European.” Another proposal reportedly involves freezing battle lines and withholding U.S. arms from Ukraine unless it enters peace talks with Russia. This plan was allegedly drafted by two former chiefs of the National Security Council during Trump’s first term, Reuters reported in June. WSJ noted a third, less defined plan by a candidate for a high-level cabinet position that would prioritize a ceasefire, potentially requiring Kyiv to make significant concessions. The only proposed approach that avoids a “major win” for Russia reportedly comes from former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a potential candidate to lead the Pentagon, though details were not provided. It remains unclear which plan Trump will pursue to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the Ukraine war. “[Trump] makes his own calls on national-security issues,” a former National Security Council aide told WSJ. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov described the proposals as “abstract” but did not rule out a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump before the U.S. presidential inauguration in January. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/07/trump-advisers-push-to-freeze-war-in-ukraine-pause-kyivs-bid-to-join-nato-wsj-a86935 This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. Was just about to jump on here and share the same. So what Trump wants is for borders to stay where they are, no Nato for 20 years, and for Russia to rebuild their army so they can finish the job later.. Also called a complete surrender. Art of the deal, people! This would be really sad if it came to pass. It would be like a big "fuck you" to all the people who died in this war this past years. The "deal" will probably get worse than that. How, I don't know, but why would Putin take the opening offer when he's only going to get into a stronger position between now and when Trump actually has the capacity to force the deal?
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United States41878 Posts
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On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:
This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce.
This is, unfortunately, exactly what ruskies want.
Overall, Americans seems to be tired of being the pillar of the West and I interpret those moves as isolationist trend. I'm starting to be "determined defeatist" type guy, because if West is "tired" of war where they don't have to sacrifice lives of their own, how could we count on them standing against aggressors when the actual lives will be at stake?
Hopefully no idiots from western Europe will try to enforce to sancion lifting in near future, because if those will go down too, than fuck the West and their boasting about "politics of values".
I also believe my country does too little and everybody pretend there is no greater problem.
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Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On November 08 2024 20:47 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2024 04:34 Sent. wrote:
This may get Europeans to spend more, but that money will be spent on preparing for an Atlantic divorce. This is, unfortunately, exactly what ruskies want. Overall, Americans seems to be tired of being the pillar of the West and I interpret those moves as isolationist trend. I'm starting to be "determined defeatist" type guy, because if West is "tired" of war where they don't have to sacrifice lives of their own, how could we count on them standing against aggressors when the actual lives will be at stake? Hopefully no idiots from western Europe will try to enforce to sancion lifting in near future, because if those will go down too, than fuck the West and their boasting about "politics of values". I also believe my country does too little and everybody pretend there is no greater problem.
I think Americans will relatively quickly discover that without wielding their soft, and occasionally hard power they’ll lose a lot of the advantages that has historically given them. They’ll still be powerful, can’t doubt that.
But unlike previous generations they seem to want American Exceptionalism without putting in the hard yards,
I think they take a lot of structural advantages the US has gained over the years from this, or indeed how it’s benefitted from various alliances too.
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The good part about Donald Trump is his opinion can change with the wind. The right person who can make the Donald personally richer can change his mind. Now it could change back 10 mins after, he is just a wild card in everyway.
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Maybe I'm dumb but for me US intervening to end this war now would be really counter-productive. Even if the supposed "peace" didn't come on Russia's terms it would still send some pretty bad messages and give US a bad rep (not like they need any more of that).
"Sure, we'll help you fight for your freedom, have some guns and money" and then later "We helped you fight for your freedom but now we kinda want you to just give up."
Like, WTF is this bullshit?
Also, I don't think any of the Trump advisors (or Trump himself) even realize the consequences of such a thing. If Russia grabs the land it has right now and is allowed to rebuild they'll just do the same thing in the future (it's the same as with Hitler before/during WW2 when everyone was just OK with handing him some small landgrabs). Ukraine basically becomes Belarus 2.0 and millions of people will flee the country and will seek refuge in other parts of the EU which already has big immigration issues, further destabilizing the entire continent.
Perhaps I'm irrational but all those talks about "peace" and "ending the war now" have made me more angry than I thought they would...
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On November 09 2024 02:01 Manit0u wrote:
Maybe I'm dumb but for me US intervening to end this war now would be really counter-productive. Even if the supposed "peace" didn't come on Russia's terms it would still send some pretty bad messages and give US a bad rep (not like they need any more of that).
"Sure, we'll help you fight for your freedom, have some guns and money" and then later "We helped you fight for your freedom but now we kinda want you to just give up."
Like, WTF is this bullshit? Typical US foreign policy. Also sorta why frequently the people we gave guns and money end up using them against us instead.
Also, I don't think any of the Trump advisors (or Trump himself) even realize the consequences of such a thing. If Russia grabs the land it has right now and is allowed to rebuild they'll just do the same thing in the future (it's the same as with Hitler before/during WW2 when everyone was just OK with handing him some small landgrabs). Ukraine basically becomes Belarus 2.0 and millions of people will flee the country and will seek refuge in other parts of the EU which already has big immigration issues, further destabilizing the entire continent. + Show Spoiler +Perhaps I'm irrational but all those talks about "peace" and "ending the war now" have made me more angry than I thought they would.. .
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On November 09 2024 02:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 02:01 Manit0u wrote:
Maybe I'm dumb but for me US intervening to end this war now would be really counter-productive. Even if the supposed "peace" didn't come on Russia's terms it would still send some pretty bad messages and give US a bad rep (not like they need any more of that).
"Sure, we'll help you fight for your freedom, have some guns and money" and then later "We helped you fight for your freedom but now we kinda want you to just give up."
Like, WTF is this bullshit? Typical US foreign policy. Also sorta why frequently the people we gave guns and money end up using them against us instead. Show nested quote +Also, I don't think any of the Trump advisors (or Trump himself) even realize the consequences of such a thing. If Russia grabs the land it has right now and is allowed to rebuild they'll just do the same thing in the future (it's the same as with Hitler before/during WW2 when everyone was just OK with handing him some small landgrabs). Ukraine basically becomes Belarus 2.0 and millions of people will flee the country and will seek refuge in other parts of the EU which already has big immigration issues, further destabilizing the entire continent. + Show Spoiler +Perhaps I'm irrational but all those talks about "peace" and "ending the war now" have made me more angry than I thought they would.. . They don't, just hope Putin slips on some ice and gets a brain bleed or something I guess.
That is actually becoming a reasonable outcome now. Selling US tech for a better peace deal (Patriot, HIMARS etc). If the US isn't backing you and you are losing anyhow, it is on the table.
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Norway28548 Posts
I mean Trump wanting US military aid to be transactional is basically his foreign policy right there. He's floated that idea for Taiwan while defending the idea by stating that 'The mob makes you pay money, right?'
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On November 09 2024 02:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 02:01 Manit0u wrote:
Maybe I'm dumb but for me US intervening to end this war now would be really counter-productive. Even if the supposed "peace" didn't come on Russia's terms it would still send some pretty bad messages and give US a bad rep (not like they need any more of that).
"Sure, we'll help you fight for your freedom, have some guns and money" and then later "We helped you fight for your freedom but now we kinda want you to just give up."
Like, WTF is this bullshit? Typical US foreign policy. Also sorta why frequently the people we gave guns and money end up using them against us instead. Show nested quote +Also, I don't think any of the Trump advisors (or Trump himself) even realize the consequences of such a thing. If Russia grabs the land it has right now and is allowed to rebuild they'll just do the same thing in the future (it's the same as with Hitler before/during WW2 when everyone was just OK with handing him some small landgrabs). Ukraine basically becomes Belarus 2.0 and millions of people will flee the country and will seek refuge in other parts of the EU which already has big immigration issues, further destabilizing the entire continent. + Show Spoiler +Perhaps I'm irrational but all those talks about "peace" and "ending the war now" have made me more angry than I thought they would.. . They don't, just hope Putin slips on some ice and gets a brain bleed or something I guess.
Yepp. Taliban used to be US allies. They're literally the protagonists in Rocky 3. US is simply a completely untrustworthy ally who's motivations are as fleeting as a leaf in the wind
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https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-deploy-ukraine/index.html
Biden administration is opening up for US contractors to fight in Ukraine. Clearly a desperate move in response to losing the election, but I don't see how that in any way shape or form can make a difference in a measly 3 months. It's wayy too little too late. Even combined with removing the restraints on using US weapons in Russia, and trying to shove through as much of the the remaining support as they can in the upcoming 3 months, it's just not enough. They had 3 years to do this, and they fucked it by sitting on their hands
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On November 09 2024 05:26 Excludos wrote:https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-deploy-ukraine/index.htmlBiden administration is opening up for US contractors to fight in Ukraine. Clearly a desperate move in response to losing the election, but I don't see how that in any way shape or form can make a difference in a measly 3 months. It's wayy too little too late. Even combined with removing the restraints on using US weapons in Russia, and trying to shove through as much of the the remaining support as they can in the upcoming 3 months, it's just not enough. They had 3 years to do this, and they fucked it by sitting on their hands
Probably helps out some of Dick Cheney's buddies, might have owed him a favor?
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United States41878 Posts
On November 09 2024 05:19 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 02:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 09 2024 02:01 Manit0u wrote:
Maybe I'm dumb but for me US intervening to end this war now would be really counter-productive. Even if the supposed "peace" didn't come on Russia's terms it would still send some pretty bad messages and give US a bad rep (not like they need any more of that).
"Sure, we'll help you fight for your freedom, have some guns and money" and then later "We helped you fight for your freedom but now we kinda want you to just give up."
Like, WTF is this bullshit? Typical US foreign policy. Also sorta why frequently the people we gave guns and money end up using them against us instead. Also, I don't think any of the Trump advisors (or Trump himself) even realize the consequences of such a thing. If Russia grabs the land it has right now and is allowed to rebuild they'll just do the same thing in the future (it's the same as with Hitler before/during WW2 when everyone was just OK with handing him some small landgrabs). Ukraine basically becomes Belarus 2.0 and millions of people will flee the country and will seek refuge in other parts of the EU which already has big immigration issues, further destabilizing the entire continent. + Show Spoiler +Perhaps I'm irrational but all those talks about "peace" and "ending the war now" have made me more angry than I thought they would.. . They don't, just hope Putin slips on some ice and gets a brain bleed or something I guess. Yepp. Taliban used to be US allies. They're literally the protagonists in Rocky 3. US is simply a completely untrustworthy ally who's motivations are as fleeting as a leaf in the wind
Eh, Taliban were always Taliban. The Soviet Union stuck its dick in Afghanistan and so the US thought it’d be funny to fuck with them because that’s how you Cold War. The US never had any expectation of sharing values or interests with them. It was an arrangement of convenience.
The Taliban weren’t behind 9/11 either. They just failed to police Al Qaeda operating out of their nation because they didn’t recognize the existence of Afghanistan as a nation nor themselves as a national government responsible for it.
Afghanistan is essentially a fiction created by big cartography.
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EPT
