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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:29 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:24 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:11 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:02 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
What percentage of those that you hate in Israel are not Jews? I have no idea. Likely almost none. I don't know how that is likely. I also don't know how it's supposed to matter, which is perhaps more important? If it is not important then why does it bother you when the other word is used? I don't know how the amount of non-jewish Israelis that I hate matters in the conversation, I do know why the conversation is important. But it would be wrong to claim that it bothers me when the other word is used, it would only bother me if it was used by people I respect, and it isn't. I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church?
I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people.
I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate.
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On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:29 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:24 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:11 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
I have no idea. Likely almost none. I don't know how that is likely. I also don't know how it's supposed to matter, which is perhaps more important? If it is not important then why does it bother you when the other word is used? I don't know how the amount of non-jewish Israelis that I hate matters in the conversation, I do know why the conversation is important. But it would be wrong to claim that it bothers me when the other word is used, it would only bother me if it was used by people I respect, and it isn't. I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate.
So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent.
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On May 07 2025 10:05 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:29 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:24 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:11 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Likely almost none. I don't know how that is likely. I also don't know how it's supposed to matter, which is perhaps more important? If it is not important then why does it bother you when the other word is used? I don't know how the amount of non-jewish Israelis that I hate matters in the conversation, I do know why the conversation is important. But it would be wrong to claim that it bothers me when the other word is used, it would only bother me if it was used by people I respect, and it isn't. I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate. So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent.
The two are inextricably tied in Israel. Whereas in China and Russia they are not. These are not the owns you two think they are.
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On May 07 2025 10:07 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 10:05 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:29 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:24 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
I don't know how that is likely. I also don't know how it's supposed to matter, which is perhaps more important? If it is not important then why does it bother you when the other word is used? I don't know how the amount of non-jewish Israelis that I hate matters in the conversation, I do know why the conversation is important. But it would be wrong to claim that it bothers me when the other word is used, it would only bother me if it was used by people I respect, and it isn't. I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate. So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent. The two are inextricably tied in Israel. Whereas in China and Russia they are not. These are not the owns you two think they are.
So, just to be clear, according to you if someone has a jewish identity, they support Netanyahu? And I'm the one who is supposed to be antisemitic?
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On May 07 2025 10:10 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 10:07 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 10:05 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 06:29 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
If it is not important then why does it bother you when the other word is used? I don't know how the amount of non-jewish Israelis that I hate matters in the conversation, I do know why the conversation is important. But it would be wrong to claim that it bothers me when the other word is used, it would only bother me if it was used by people I respect, and it isn't. I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate. So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent. The two are inextricably tied in Israel. Whereas in China and Russia they are not. These are not the owns you two think they are. So, just to be clear, according to you if someone has a jewish identity, they support Netanyahu? And I'm the one who is supposed to be antisemitic?
Another swing and a miss! Also you used that word not me. There is a reason when I talk about Gaza I talk about Hamas not Gazans, it is really not a big ask to direct your hate at the minority of Israelis who enable this level of violence. It is even less writing to write IDF, but for some reason you must use Israel.
For those of you wondering why no one but those in complete lock step respond in this thread is because any discussion is met with such hate. Imagine what would happen if a a pro Israel person was here, you're brutal to Israelis are not all evil people.
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I don’t think I understand, has anyone said they hate all Israelis or is this a situation where people are choosing to conflate Israel with all Israelis in a political discussion which typically equates a state not with its people, but with its government, since typically the government is the party actively doing things?
I genuinely don’t understand what’s happening here, are you equating Israel with all Jews or just that since Israel is a primarily Jewish state that criticizing it involving disliking some Jewish people which is bad?
Is there some actual disagreement on whether or not Israel’s genocidal action is bad or not or is this weird backhanded transitive property argument nonsense, cause I feel like this subject becomes that everywhere I see it even when people ostensibly claim to agree that what Israel is doing is awful and the Israeli government is awful for doing it.
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I didn't agree with Israel's initial reaction but I could at least understand it. But they have really taken a turn towards comically evil on all fronts.
Palestinians it's not close to being proportional, reasonable or even logical.
Yemen just destroying whatever of value is left with no regards if it's a military target.
Syria close to 300 airstrikes on a country that has done nothing to them and fanning sectarian violence. They have outright stated they want a new civil war and a fractured state. Instead of hoping that the neighbour who had 50 years of dictatorship and 14 years of civil war gains peace and stability they want to push them back into chaos so they can occupy some more land and not have a pipeline null their geopolitical energy ambitions.
Just pure evil on all fronts and I will never bother standing up for them again, even if they by some miracle happens to be in the right again in the future.
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On May 07 2025 11:39 Zambrah wrote:
I don’t think I understand, has anyone said they hate all Israelis or is this a situation where people are choosing to conflate Israel with all Israelis in a political discussion which typically equates a state not with its people, but with its government, since typically the government is the party actively doing things?
I genuinely don’t understand what’s happening here, are you equating Israel with all Jews or just that since Israel is a primarily Jewish state that criticizing it involving disliking some Jewish people which is bad?
Is there some actual disagreement on whether or not Israel’s genocidal action is bad or not or is this weird backhanded transitive property argument nonsense, cause I feel like this subject becomes that everywhere I see it even when people ostensibly claim to agree that what Israel is doing is awful and the Israeli government is awful for doing it.
The problem is attempting to understand what Billy is saying, rather than what his statements say about his approach to this issue. The fact that being an ethnostate is somehow a source of political defense rather than criticism is asinine.
I'll elucidate for Billy: Israel is a democratic state. Its (voted in) government is out doing atrocities (and has been since well before the war). Most people understand that when you are talking about a state, you are not talking about every single person within it, but rather the collective state actions. The fact that Israel is an ethnostate doesn't change this (nor should it act as a defense or point of deflection against criticism. Jesus).
While the citizens are not fond of Netanyahu, they do broadly approve of the war actions, the war cabinet, and a plurality even support Israel controlling the gaza strip.
So calling out the state as not just a government, but a representative one, is very fair here. The government and IDF are part of a democratic apparatus whose actions and policy are broadly supported and actively maintained by the majority of the voting population. It is perfectly reasonable to attribute the atrocities to the state as a whole, rather than just the IDF or defense cabinet or Netanyahu or whoever-the-fuck-else you think we should specify to avoid your accusations of antisemitism.
Again, this is not the same as saying every Israeli is responsible, no-one says or implies that when attributing actions to a state.
And again, the fact that Israel is an ethnostate should not mean we all have to tiptoe around how we attribute state actions.
[EDIT: removed some of the emotion from the original version of this post]
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The diffusal of responsibility is something the imperialist supporters really love to use when it suits them.
We aren't allowed to dislike or have problems with Russians, it's just Putin who is repressing 140 million of people and they, poor Russians have nothing to do with the war or what is happening in Ukraine.
When we express resentment for Americans who vote for Trump, it's always "you see, this is why they win, you hate them and that's why they vote to spite you". And this is the rhetoric and will be when Trump goes after Greenland or Panama or Canada or Mexico, we'll say "fuck the Americans" and it's going to be "it's the government, you can't shit on the people" while this orange POS sits at 40 % approval rating and enjoys full support of every Republican.
We aren't allowed to shit on Afd voters in Germany, it's not their fault, they are just angry at immigrants and their opinions are being censored so they are innocent in all this, we should blame the left for "letting them down".
And of course, we aren't allowed to say that Israel is murdering people, committing ethnic cleansing, attacking and taking land from Syria, Lebannon, West bank, nah, it's all settlers and Bibi, if we say Israel is doing it we are all anti-Semites.
At least Russians have the excuse of living in a late stage authoritarian hellhole, there, if you say something online or in public you will get thrown to jail or forcibly mobilized and thrown in to the meat grinder, everyone else, I'm sorry but I reserve my right to say "fuck you guys" to everyone who contributes to the world going to shit, Americans, Israelis, Russians, Hungarians, Chinese, Indians ,Turks, Iranians, every single of these authoritarians with expansionist tendencies is there by the grace of their people either not giving a shit or actively supporting it, and each of these countries deserves ire from everyone else.
Of course, my apologies to every decent person in all of those countries, even the ones not doing much, these are scary times and we all try to keep our priorities the safety of us and our families, but I really believe that everyone who is not doing everything in their power to speak truth to power by protesting and organizing in places where it can still be done in a safe way is complicit.
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Northern Ireland27266 Posts
On May 07 2025 10:22 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 10:10 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 10:07 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 10:05 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
I don't know how the amount of non-jewish Israelis that I hate matters in the conversation, I do know why the conversation is important. But it would be wrong to claim that it bothers me when the other word is used, it would only bother me if it was used by people I respect, and it isn't. I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate. So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent. The two are inextricably tied in Israel. Whereas in China and Russia they are not. These are not the owns you two think they are. So, just to be clear, according to you if someone has a jewish identity, they support Netanyahu? And I'm the one who is supposed to be antisemitic? Another swing and a miss! Also you used that word not me. There is a reason when I talk about Gaza I talk about Hamas not Gazans, it is really not a big ask to direct your hate at the minority of Israelis who enable this level of violence. It is even less writing to write IDF, but for some reason you must use Israel. For those of you wondering why no one but those in complete lock step respond in this thread is because any discussion is met with such hate. Imagine what would happen if a a pro Israel person was here, you're brutal to Israelis are not all evil people.
Do we have to imagine?
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Northern Ireland27266 Posts
On May 07 2025 14:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I didn't agree with Israel's initial reaction but I could at least understand it. But they have really taken a turn towards comically evil on all fronts.
Palestinians it's not close to being proportional, reasonable or even logical.
Yemen just destroying whatever of value is left with no regards if it's a military target.
Syria close to 300 airstrikes on a country that has done nothing to them and fanning sectarian violence. They have outright stated they want a new civil war and a fractured state. Instead of hoping that the neighbour who had 50 years of dictatorship and 14 years of civil war gains peace and stability they want to push them back into chaos so they can occupy some more land and not have a pipeline null their geopolitical energy ambitions.
Just pure evil on all fronts and I will never bother standing up for them again, even if they by some miracle happens to be in the right again in the future.
Yeah, realistically there was always going to be some rather brutal reprisals in and around the heat of that moment. Didn’t agree with the form it took, of course, but I can’t think of many nations that would be able to resist those urges. Understandable can still be unacceptable.
But on the other hand, with time to think and contemplate, there’s policies before October 7th and now well, well on that are awful and don’t have that kind of ‘excuse’ as it were. And that really skew from potentially justifiable security actions to outright aggression and expansion, or oppression.
A lot of this damage will be irreversible too, outside of the obvious like deaths etc, even if Israel massively course corrects in the future.
It’s much more palatable to halt settlement expansion than remove existing ones, for any new administration that could come in, to pick one example. Unless the swing is massive, ‘you cannot settle here’ is one thing ‘we’re going to forcibly relocate and make Israelis temporarily homeless from x settlement(s)’ is quite another. Borderline political suicide IMO.
So Netanyahu and the more hawkish elements of his base have tons of incentive to do as much as possible, as quickly as possible.
Which makes the timing of a second Trump Presidency especially unfortunate as they’ll be given absolute carte blanche. We’re almost into Swiss Cheese model territory there
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Watch out guys, Jimmi thinks that every Chinese person is building colonies in Bhutan
On November 14 2024 03:30 Billyboy wrote:
As long as Bibi stays in power and needs the even further right to bolster his support, I agree. They are not quite the government subsidized colonies like China is building in Bhutan, but similar idea.
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On May 07 2025 17:47 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The diffusal of responsibility is something the imperialist supporters really love to use when it suits them.
We aren't allowed to dislike or have problems with Russians, it's just Putin who is repressing 140 million of people and they, poor Russians have nothing to do with the war or what is happening in Ukraine.
When we express resentment for Americans who vote for Trump, it's always "you see, this is why they win, you hate them and that's why they vote to spite you". And this is the rhetoric and will be when Trump goes after Greenland or Panama or Canada or Mexico, we'll say "fuck the Americans" and it's going to be "it's the government, you can't shit on the people" while this orange POS sits at 40 % approval rating and enjoys full support of every Republican.
We aren't allowed to shit on Afd voters in Germany, it's not their fault, they are just angry at immigrants and their opinions are being censored so they are innocent in all this, we should blame the left for "letting them down".
And of course, we aren't allowed to say that Israel is murdering people, committing ethnic cleansing, attacking and taking land from Syria, Lebannon, West bank, nah, it's all settlers and Bibi, if we say Israel is doing it we are all anti-Semites.
At least Russians have the excuse of living in a late stage authoritarian hellhole, there, if you say something online or in public you will get thrown to jail or forcibly mobilized and thrown in to the meat grinder, everyone else, I'm sorry but I reserve my right to say "fuck you guys" to everyone who contributes to the world going to shit, Americans, Israelis, Russians, Hungarians, Chinese, Indians ,Turks, Iranians, every single of these authoritarians with expansionist tendencies is there by the grace of their people either not giving a shit or actively supporting it, and each of these countries deserves ire from everyone else.
Of course, my apologies to every decent person in all of those countries, even the ones not doing much, these are scary times and we all try to keep our priorities the safety of us and our families, but I really believe that everyone who is not doing everything in their power to speak truth to power by protesting and organizing in places where it can still be done in a safe way is complicit.
Wanting people in an ostensible democracy to vociferously object to their elected representatives aiding and abetting genocide is not really welcomed around here.
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On May 07 2025 21:06 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 10:22 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 10:10 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 10:07 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 10:05 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:16 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
I guess pleading ignorance is an option. But clearly it is the Jews of Israel you are mad at. The orthodox Jews are the ones that support Netanyahu and those that are even further right than him. And the secular people of Jewish decent, people of Arab back grounds and other various groups of Israel are the ones that do not support it. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but odd for you to bring it up when it does not. I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate. So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent. The two are inextricably tied in Israel. Whereas in China and Russia they are not. These are not the owns you two think they are. So, just to be clear, according to you if someone has a jewish identity, they support Netanyahu? And I'm the one who is supposed to be antisemitic? Another swing and a miss! Also you used that word not me. There is a reason when I talk about Gaza I talk about Hamas not Gazans, it is really not a big ask to direct your hate at the minority of Israelis who enable this level of violence. It is even less writing to write IDF, but for some reason you must use Israel. For those of you wondering why no one but those in complete lock step respond in this thread is because any discussion is met with such hate. Imagine what would happen if a a pro Israel person was here, you're brutal to Israelis are not all evil people. Do we have to imagine?
Thanks for proving my point.
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On May 07 2025 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:Watch out guys, Jimmi thinks that every Chinese person is building colonies in Bhutan Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 03:30 Billyboy wrote:
As long as Bibi stays in power and needs the even further right to bolster his support, I agree. They are not quite the government subsidized colonies like China is building in Bhutan, but similar idea.
Maybe you are so sensitive because the only difference between your position and an anti-Semites position is the word Israel or Jew.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/asia/china-bhutan-border-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
There is obviously nuance you actively avoid thinking about. When you get into the conspiracy crap about Israel always planning genocide. Compared to say Israel dropping a bomb.
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On May 07 2025 23:09 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:Watch out guys, Jimmi thinks that every Chinese person is building colonies in Bhutan On November 14 2024 03:30 Billyboy wrote:
As long as Bibi stays in power and needs the even further right to bolster his support, I agree. They are not quite the government subsidized colonies like China is building in Bhutan, but similar idea. Maybe you are so sensitive because the only difference between your position and an anti-Semites position is the word Israel or Jew. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/asia/china-bhutan-border-dst-intl-hnk/index.htmlThere is obviously nuance you actively avoid thinking about. When you get into the conspiracy crap about Israel always planning genocide. Compared to say Israel dropping a bomb. So you believe Israel should be immune to criticism because you cannot criticize Jews and Israel=Jews?
Seems a perfect position to allow Israel to do whatever it wants, including ethic cleansings.
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On May 07 2025 23:09 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:Watch out guys, Jimmi thinks that every Chinese person is building colonies in Bhutan On November 14 2024 03:30 Billyboy wrote:
As long as Bibi stays in power and needs the even further right to bolster his support, I agree. They are not quite the government subsidized colonies like China is building in Bhutan, but similar idea. Maybe you are so sensitive because the only difference between your position and an anti-Semites position is the word Israel or Jew. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/asia/china-bhutan-border-dst-intl-hnk/index.htmlThere is obviously nuance you actively avoid thinking about. When you get into the conspiracy crap about Israel always planning genocide. Compared to say Israel dropping a bomb.
Are you genuinely surprised that if we replace what I say by "disliking Jews", then it sounds antisemitic? Let me try with something else, "I dislike broccoli", and now I'm going to replace "broccoli" with "Jews". Damn, that's now an antisemitic statement, crazy.
We now have an example of both you and CNN using "China" to mean something else than "every Chinese person", so clearly you understand how words work. Be serious please.
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Northern Ireland27266 Posts
On May 07 2025 23:06 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 21:06 WombaT wrote:On May 07 2025 10:22 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 10:10 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 10:07 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 10:05 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:59 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2025 09:32 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 09:21 Nebuchad wrote:
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I didn't bring it up? "Could either of you two clowns please post something specific in what I've posted here that makes it look like I'm talking about Jews, so that we can see the disconnect in action?" Feel free to look into Israeli politics, who's in Netanyahu's coalition, what they believe and who supports them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel Can you think of a difference between hating Jews and hating people who support a specific government and specific policies and happen to be majority Jewish? I've noticed that you're not a fan of Russia, should I conclude that you hate white people or the orthodox church? I do openly hate the leadership of the Russian orthodox church, they remind me of the evil popes supporting the crusades. But I don't have hatred of Russian people in general, which is another unpopular opinion with a different group of people. I have a pretty strong dislike for most religious extremists and people who hate. So, based on this explanation, you have no problem differentiating between hating people for their identity and hating people for their political opinions? Excellent. The two are inextricably tied in Israel. Whereas in China and Russia they are not. These are not the owns you two think they are. So, just to be clear, according to you if someone has a jewish identity, they support Netanyahu? And I'm the one who is supposed to be antisemitic? Another swing and a miss! Also you used that word not me. There is a reason when I talk about Gaza I talk about Hamas not Gazans, it is really not a big ask to direct your hate at the minority of Israelis who enable this level of violence. It is even less writing to write IDF, but for some reason you must use Israel. For those of you wondering why no one but those in complete lock step respond in this thread is because any discussion is met with such hate. Imagine what would happen if a a pro Israel person was here, you're brutal to Israelis are not all evil people. Do we have to imagine? Thanks for proving my point.
My point is this is not a hypothetical, we have had, and indeed still have such voices, and they’re broadly not attacked in that manner. You yourself are obviously pro-Israel, absolutely not a zealot but I thini that’s broadly a fair observation.
Or perhaps a better example is the Ukraine/Russia thread. There’s plenty of civility and hostility there, but it’s based on expressed views not simply being Russian or not. Indeed the individual who garners the most hostile pushback is not Russian. There’s plenty of Russian users going about their day unmolested on here.
Your hypothetical has already occurred, and it hasn’t played out the way you’re framing it.
To reiterate, these things are commonplace elsewhere, and if I saw them here I’d challenge them. If Neb said ‘all Jews’, or whatever it is. Instead it’s you saying ‘well actually this is what Neb means’ when he said no such thing.
So we enter a frustrating and pointless loop.
Incidentally, it’s also a dangerous playbook to take out IMO. Which I have pointed out in the past.
Plenty make the transition from anti-Israel/sympathetic to Palestine to being actually anti-Semitic, if this play is used too liberally. A real self-fulfilling prophecy there.
Not, I don’t think a danger for Liquidians here or anything, but it does absolutely happen, it’s a method of argumentation I’d absolutely avoid like the plague.
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Northern Ireland27266 Posts
On May 07 2025 23:09 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:Watch out guys, Jimmi thinks that every Chinese person is building colonies in Bhutan On November 14 2024 03:30 Billyboy wrote:
As long as Bibi stays in power and needs the even further right to bolster his support, I agree. They are not quite the government subsidized colonies like China is building in Bhutan, but similar idea. Maybe you are so sensitive because the only difference between your position and an anti-Semites position is the word Israel or Jew. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/asia/china-bhutan-border-dst-intl-hnk/index.htmlThere is obviously nuance you actively avoid thinking about. When you get into the conspiracy crap about Israel always planning genocide. Compared to say Israel dropping a bomb.
Because words have meaning. One denotes a state, the other an ethnic group, not all of whom reside in or even agree with said state.
Neither is the position even the same anyway. ‘Israel should stop doing shitty things’ may absolutely be shared by the anti-Semite, but they add a whole shitload of other stuff on top that Neb hasn’t expressed.
This thing you’re doing isn’t nuance, it’s not adding depth or complexity to the conversation, it’s nitpicking. Often erroneous nitpicking that then necessitates re-litigating initial points over and over in different ways.
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On May 07 2025 23:29 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2025 23:09 Billyboy wrote:On May 07 2025 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:Watch out guys, Jimmi thinks that every Chinese person is building colonies in Bhutan On November 14 2024 03:30 Billyboy wrote:
As long as Bibi stays in power and needs the even further right to bolster his support, I agree. They are not quite the government subsidized colonies like China is building in Bhutan, but similar idea. Maybe you are so sensitive because the only difference between your position and an anti-Semites position is the word Israel or Jew. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/asia/china-bhutan-border-dst-intl-hnk/index.htmlThere is obviously nuance you actively avoid thinking about. When you get into the conspiracy crap about Israel always planning genocide. Compared to say Israel dropping a bomb. So you believe Israel should be immune to criticism because you cannot criticize Jews and Israel=Jews? Seems a perfect position to allow Israel to do whatever it wants, including ethic cleansings.
Of course not, I myself criticize them, so that would be very hypocritical. I just don't delve into the conspiracy theories, such as, if we don't stop Israel now they will take x,y,z next.
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EPT
