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On February 25 2024 05:15 WombaT wrote: There seems this tendency to parse anything that may put our ‘side’, or something we have some sympathy with into a negative light as outright propaganda.
To a pretty ridiculous degree tbh. This writer should be absolutely criticised/castigated for showing approval to such a heinous expressed sentiment.
On the flip side I mean, Hamas themselves were pretty eager coming forward to document their own atrocious behaviour in this domain in glorious technicolour, it’s myopic in the extreme to try and seize upon 1 journalist’s clear bias to handwave away something that evidently happened.
I mean I don’t think I’ve yet been charged with a particular pro-Israeli stance but it’s just such an obvious attempt to pretend that some uncomfortable things happened to keep pushing a particular narratives.
Yeah sure, denouncing the fake news and hateful feeling of one of the most proeminent western journalist on the conflict which influences the whole usa public opinion is "an obvious attempt to pretend sth uncomfortable happened" but you're not pro israeli. And that's just a "journalist" not a whole society which generates this discourse...
Just one week ago a woman invited in the major media in france stated gaza must be erased without anyone reacting while anticolonialist slogan put your carrier at risk but that's totally normal, this shit gets normalized and every attempts to counter it is labelled as "tendency to parse anything that may put our ‘side’" Well, you have one for sure
Is the US public opinion on the topic that volatile that it’s swayed by a handful of journalists? In this media epoch?
Again, my point was that it’s absolutely fair to criticise this journalist’s objectivity, but taking that to the extreme that because they were involved in reporting of mass sexual violence, that said violence is propaganda is putting a blindfold on.
There’s enough of it out there that I’m aware of, that others have the stomach for that just refutes that, filmed by Hamas themselves.
It’s a quite specific point, mainstream coverage isn’t always to my tastes overall and I’m critical of it frequently, there comes a point where one is just swapping out one falsehood for another.
So very specifically, this journalist being however awful doesn’t = the October 7th sexual violence is ‘fake news’. Which some folks would rather it be because it reduces the cognitive dissonance of fighting the Palestinian corner if their number aren’t involved in such atrocity.
It’s not a wider defence of media coverage of the conflict, or its history, I agree that’s frequently sorely lacking.
a couple of 'journalists' and I use that term in the loosest possible sense turned Republicans from opposing Russia to simping for Putin and made a cheating failed silver spooned billionaire the paragon of Christian values and fighting for the common man (supposedly).
On February 25 2024 07:42 JimmiC wrote: I mean the Hamas released videos were so bad that many people here (completely understandably) didn’t want to watch them because they were so disturbing. I’m not sure any written word can be worse. And Hamas released them, that is what they wanted the world to see, and they shot the videos themselves because they wanted to watch what they did and show it off to others.
Fine to call out propaganda, but pretending that it is painting a completely false narrative is propaganda in its own right.
I was responding as if she wrote the post, but I went back and saw that she *liked* a post. Yawn. More news at 11.
Will be interesting to see if the EU responds to the Spain/Ireland requests. I'd imagine German economy is a lot larger than both combined and has a lot more pull in the EU. But no idea tbh.
On February 25 2024 08:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Will be interesting to see if the EU responds to the Spain/Ireland requests. I'd imagine German economy is a lot larger than both combined and has a lot more pull in the EU. But no idea tbh.
Not hopeful. Germany (and therefore EU at large) has been the biggest disappointment for international politics in modern history imo. Giving away own nation energy security to Russia, constantly disrupting supply to Ukraine. "Green energy" automobile subsidies making their own industry struggling while China enjoying all the extra sales and gov subsidies for funding EV.
They are a lost cause to me for the majority of few decades.
Israel behaving like a North Korea level of self restrain and absolutely no respect to any of the allies giving aids, US/EU still struggling to do anything about all the war crime happening.
All the money and opportunities US and EU gave to Israel to make it the tech nation, giving it far too much positive spotlight.
On February 25 2024 07:42 JimmiC wrote: I mean the Hamas released videos were so bad that many people here (completely understandably) didn’t want to watch them because they were so disturbing. I’m not sure any written word can be worse. And Hamas released them, that is what they wanted the world to see, and they shot the videos themselves because they wanted to watch what they did and show it off to others.
Fine to call out propaganda, but pretending that it is painting a completely false narrative is propaganda in its own right.
Thank you Jimmy you summated my point better than I did. X person may well be a biased propagandist, but if there’s other corroboration it doesn’t immediately erase the veracity of everything they’ve written. If some of the corroboration literally comes from the folks they’re apparently smearing, well that’s an untenable singular position to hold.
@stilt I hope that better explains my quite limited point on this specific item, as I said I do have issues with a lot of media coverage of the conflict in a more general sense. The subsequent part of my post is general/illustrative and not a response to you specifically, just to be 100% clear there.
Going a bit more general, perhaps less on TL, but certainly elsewhere you see this to an even greater degree over the Russia/Ukraine conflict.
It really doesn’t matter how awful one feels the US, Western Europe or NATO are, one is very much entitled to whatever opinion as far as I’m concerned. But once you start dismissing everything as propaganda, that x didn’t happen even as Putin himself is putting out pressers to the contrary, how is anyone supposed to take your position even vaguely seriously? Much less your ‘critical free thinker’ status.
Give me one of those ‘MSM sheeple’ any day I tells ya!
On February 24 2024 19:46 Magic Powers wrote: Not a single concession by Israel. Not one.
Why should there be any?
Yes indeed, why should a consistently oppressive nation that has just destroyed the majority of people's homes and killed tens of thousands of people make any concessions. Why, for what reason? How? Unthinkable!
Ignore the over 300 Palestinians killed in the West bank since October 7. Ignore the war crimes, ignore the deaths, ignore the damage. Ignore it all in Gaza and in the West bank.
I hope you were asking not out of curiosity, but because you were genuinely too lazy to think of an answer.
On February 25 2024 07:42 JimmiC wrote: I mean the Hamas released videos were so bad that many people here (completely understandably) didn’t want to watch them because they were so disturbing. I’m not sure any written word can be worse. And Hamas released them, that is what they wanted the world to see, and they shot the videos themselves because they wanted to watch what they did and show it off to others.
Fine to call out propaganda, but pretending that it is painting a completely false narrative is propaganda in its own right.
I was responding as if she wrote the post, but I went back and saw that she *liked* a post. Yawn. More news at 11.
It's a pretty bad post. But it's a like. Zzzz
It’s absolutely yikes central, not a ‘pretty bad post’. I mean yes a mere like is less meaningful than writing it oneself, 100% there.
Equally I don’t think somebody (seemingly) agreeing with sentiments that Arabs are animals and should be wholesale slaughtered and what norms do remain of humane conduct in this campaign be stripped back, should remotely be writing in a mainstream publication on this particular conflict.
I don’t have Twitter myself and the posts got nuked subsequently, from memory at the time I don’t recall anything remotely as bad in some of these sentiments. And these are sportspeople not journalists actually reporting on the conflict itself, so I’d tend to hold them to a lower standard anyway.
That being said I do find the ‘x did this, so did y, a different outcome proves bias!’ thinking can be pretty flawed because it’s really not that difficult to find some examples to augment one’s point.
Again more proof that Netanyahu has no intention of honoring agreements whether his "allies" etc. So cut off his military funding. Now. Bear in mind even though a ceasefire has wide support, none of that seems to matter. Because remember as long as there is a war Netanyahu can stay in power and possibly out of jail, his approval rating is at 19%...
That's not a case in point. There was never an agreement on the day after between the US and Israel. Same for a two state solution. Those negotiations have always been between Israel and Palestine for obvious reasons. Aid is still allowed in. Not agreeing on the direction to take is not the same as breaking an agreement.
EPT
