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United States10402 Posts
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On November 07 2020 06:18 farvacola wrote:
Lyndsey Graham is apparently suggesting that he won't be a part of any Senate efforts to mess with Biden cabinet appointments, not that his word is worth much.
he is a 2 faced clown. Before Trump got elected he called him a racist bigot and since Trump 'stole' O: the white house he has been kissing his ass.
Guess he knows how to play 'politics' well.
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Thanks for all the enlightening discussion. I never would've thought my interests and motivation for participating in and trying to foster diy self-organising cultural spaces on the fringes of extreme music and BW would melt in the 2020 Usa election thread.
Lots of handles I've only known for their sc live threading abilities now I hold dear for incidentally being big on f.e. freire too.
Cheers~~
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United States43989 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:23 Nevuk wrote:
One of the GOP's top brain trusts begging for barr to intervene in the vote. He isn't alone, either. Lots of them are whining that Barr won't interfere. Calling Charlie Kirk a GOP top brain trust is... well idk, giving him a little too much credit. Dude is a literal joke. ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhMV8MfXYAAsKUX.jpg)
I'll have you know that Charlie Kirk, who founded his organization to oppose the liberal agenda he identifies as having experienced on college campuses, would totally have gone to college and identifies as someone who would have gone to West Point had West Point not offered the place to a black woman who, unlike him, applied to West Point. (this is actually something he said)
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United States43989 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:33 FlaShFTW wrote:https://twitter.com/ChazNuttycombe/status/1324851737715449861?s=20Some ideas for how the party should move forward with all this talk about future democratic strategy. Do they move to the left, back to center, they need to pick an identity. Unfortunately, I just don't think America is ready for progressive values.
Conservative Democrats can fuck off though
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Bisutopia19351 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:05 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:00 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:58 BisuDagger wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. I would host a daily hour long show where we observe a picture of Bisu and discuss the amazing feelings it invokes in our souls. I will pull an Alex Jones and walk onto your set and mess with you. On November 07 2020 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:41 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:38 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 07 2020 07:34 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. Sounds like a Joe Rogan podcast lmfao "So what do you know about THC" Election update? Flash pull that up. ‘Wombat can you show up to just one show sober?’ Wombat downs another shot as more votes from PA come in. Conforming entirely to stereotype I only drink Guinness. Primarily for pacing purposes. As per your Bisu point I would genuinely love some kind of community retrospectives on players and stories, a la good sports documentaries. As a pleb who only got into pro BW backwards from SC2, watching the Nony/Day9 cast of Bisu ascending to bring the Revolutionist and dismantling Savior was cool as fuck. Hell the King of Kong was compelling and that game is no BW.
I met Steve about a decade ago. We chatted for a while and then he started a public speed run. I got him to lose a life super early, like on level 5, by making him laugh to hard lol.
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Nevada got another 8.7k dump that is +2k for Biden.
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Poor Fox and AP. Might have to make that NV call after all (luckily their AP call might turn out to be technically right even if they were wrong to make it).
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Northern Ireland26793 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:13 Acrofales wrote:On November 07 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this: Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation. envs.ucsc.eduThe simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness. I agree. I also think the vast majority could not care less, and will resist being educated. Meanwhile good luck keeping the people who pursue revolution for the sake of accumulating power out of your revolution. People really don't like confronting the moral atrocity of being comfortable enough to not care enough to do even the bare minimum of liberating themselves. One reason I've been trying to find a way to gamify it in a way that doesn't undermine the guidance on manipulation. If people here spent a fraction of the time understanding liberation that they do Starcraft or their game/sport of choice we'd be quite a force.
I guess, even in pre-Covid times but especially now it’s easier to grind out something like Starcraft than do anything that requires social engagement.
The strange duality of being both technologically interconnected to a level that would have been considered witchcraft a century ago, while being more socially atomised in many other ways can make even dipping one’s toes in absolutely daunting.
I’d love the opportunity but even aside from my own problems in life, not really my skillset. I couldn’t even convince my fellow workers to join our Union hahaha
The binary between leaders and followers is somewhat simplistic, but I’d say some people are the kinds who could potentially become leaders, but require going into some kind of existing structure that’s already established
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On November 07 2020 08:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Calling Charlie Kirk a GOP top brain trust is... well idk, giving him a little too much credit. Dude is a literal joke.
I initially typed it sarcastically but then couldn't think of more than a handful of active people that would go above him.
It's more a sad statement on the current GOP's level of intellectualism that Charlie Kirk even appears on the list.
Jordan Peterson, Scott Adams, Steve Bannon, Ben Shapiro... then Charlie Kirk.
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United States10402 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:45 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Calling Charlie Kirk a GOP top brain trust is... well idk, giving him a little too much credit. Dude is a literal joke. I initially typed it sarcastically but then couldn't think of more than a handful of active people that would go above him. It's more a sad statement on the current GOP's level of intellectualism that Charlie Kirk even appears on the list. Jordan Peterson, Scott Adams, Steve Bannon, Ben Shapiro... then Charlie Kirk.
not so sold on Peterson who claims to be a liberal because the "left occupy the humanities and sciences".
You know who we haven't heard from in a hot second? Milo Yionblargh no idea how to type his last name lmfao. Oh, and Tim Pool, Alex Jones.
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Northern Ireland26793 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:37 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:05 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 08:00 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:58 BisuDagger wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. I would host a daily hour long show where we observe a picture of Bisu and discuss the amazing feelings it invokes in our souls. I will pull an Alex Jones and walk onto your set and mess with you. On November 07 2020 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:41 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:38 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 07 2020 07:34 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
[quote]
NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. Sounds like a Joe Rogan podcast lmfao "So what do you know about THC" Election update? Flash pull that up. ‘Wombat can you show up to just one show sober?’ Wombat downs another shot as more votes from PA come in. Conforming entirely to stereotype I only drink Guinness. Primarily for pacing purposes. As per your Bisu point I would genuinely love some kind of community retrospectives on players and stories, a la good sports documentaries. As a pleb who only got into pro BW backwards from SC2, watching the Nony/Day9 cast of Bisu ascending to bring the Revolutionist and dismantling Savior was cool as fuck. Hell the King of Kong was compelling and that game is no BW. I met Steve about a decade ago. We chatted for a while and then he started a public speed run. I got him to lose a life super early, like on level 5, by making him laugh to hard lol.
That’s awesome man! I find speedrunning an incredibly compelling area of both human collaboration and competition. Fleshing out crazy strategies together and then (generally) an honourable competition for the prizes. Not unlike Starcraft which I’m also fond of.
It’s a crying shame that through no fault of the filmmakers that the film will forever be around and perhaps aliens will find a DVD one year and assume Billy Mitchell was the King
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Northern Ireland26793 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:46 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:45 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 08:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Calling Charlie Kirk a GOP top brain trust is... well idk, giving him a little too much credit. Dude is a literal joke. I initially typed it sarcastically but then couldn't think of more than a handful of active people that would go above him. It's more a sad statement on the current GOP's level of intellectualism that Charlie Kirk even appears on the list. Jordan Peterson, Scott Adams, Steve Bannon, Ben Shapiro... then Charlie Kirk. not so sold on Peterson who claims to be a liberal because the "left occupy the humanities and sciences". You know who we haven't heard from in a hot second? Milo Yionblargh no idea how to type his last name lmfao. Oh, and Tim Pool, Alex Jones.
I’ve heard far too much from Dim Pool for my tastes lately. Bizarre individual.
Granted that’s mostly with lefttube criticising his takes, but I guess from your previous stances you’re probably not a big consumer of that sphere.
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On November 07 2020 08:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this: Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation. envs.ucsc.eduThe simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness. Why do you have to make the revolution so blooming difficult GH? But no Freire is pretty bang on the money here, the skipping of such a stage has historically not exactly lead to ideal results. Not sure if it was you or Nevuk who mentioned Eugene Debs in the thread but cheers as a tangential point. Fascinating reading to go deep dive on a guy I hadn’t even heard of before, and I’m not horrifically badly read.
Believe it or not in Eugene Debs was popular figure to put on wall embroideries during the socialist realistic cultural rearrangement of the post-1956 Hungarian socialism in order to probably try to illustrate how capitalism suppressed any attempts of socialism in the Usa (not untrue of course -- but!) Probably wasn't really easy to teach anything w/ this to laypeople and villagers of the countrysides, a nationally revered poet of the patriotic romanticist revolutions of 1848 comboed w/ Marx must have hit home though
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7NP7vXKT2q82y9yrWcZjcpBTo1_500.png
Anyway, for these weird reasons many young people in the 2000's got to know about him when visiting relatives - far away from urban areas and cosy libraries where you'd suppose you get to learn about such figures
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On November 07 2020 08:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this: Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation. envs.ucsc.eduThe simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness. Why do you have to make the revolution so blooming difficult GH? But no Freire is pretty bang on the money here, the skipping of such a stage has historically not exactly lead to ideal results. Not sure if it was you or Nevuk who mentioned Eugene Debs in the thread but cheers as a tangential point. Fascinating reading to go deep dive on a guy I hadn’t even heard of before, and I’m not horrifically badly read.
In all honestly I was pretty pissed when I read it lol. We hear a little about the shirtwaist factory and that child labor happened for a while but almost nothing about the worker movements outside superficial examinations of unions (I did personally pursue writing a report on Hoffa in junior high, where my less Freirean habits may have been born lol) or figures like Debs despite their transformative roles in the US.
I didn't even hear about the Haymarket incident until college, and it wasn't from class.
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On November 07 2020 08:46 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:45 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 08:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Calling Charlie Kirk a GOP top brain trust is... well idk, giving him a little too much credit. Dude is a literal joke. I initially typed it sarcastically but then couldn't think of more than a handful of active people that would go above him. It's more a sad statement on the current GOP's level of intellectualism that Charlie Kirk even appears on the list. Jordan Peterson, Scott Adams, Steve Bannon, Ben Shapiro... then Charlie Kirk. not so sold on Peterson who claims to be a liberal because the "left occupy the humanities and sciences". You know who we haven't heard from in a hot second? Milo Yionblargh no idea how to type his last name lmfao. Oh, and Tim Pool, Alex Jones.
Alex Jones was leading the protests in Arizona last night
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Some stats on AZ that are probably soothing the fears of the Fox and AP decision desk interns:
https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1324860649885868032?s=20
Wednesday counted AZ ballots: Trump got exactly what he needed.
Thursday counted AZ ballots: Trump got less than what he needed.
Friday counted AZ ballots: Trump got substantially less than what he needed.
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EPT
