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This is coming from a satirical account.
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On November 07 2020 07:50 Erasme wrote:
This is coming from a satirical account.
Glad I not the only one who noticed that too.
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United States10575 Posts
On November 07 2020 07:56 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 07:50 Erasme wrote:
This is coming from a satirical account. Glad I not the only one who noticed that too.
oh ok nvm. Prowler is jsut trolling now
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On November 07 2020 07:50 Erasme wrote:
This is coming from a satirical account.
That's the vibe for sure. "Quick! Freak out, because the votes are being... Counted!"
Though when Trump is simultaneously saying "stop the count" and "keep counting" you can't even tell anymore. God I'm ready for the endless rain of bullshit to end.
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Bisutopia19396 Posts
On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers.
I would host a daily hour long show where we observe a picture of Bisu and discuss the amazing feelings it invokes in our souls.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 07 2020 07:41 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 07:38 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 07 2020 07:34 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. Sounds like a Joe Rogan podcast lmfao "So what do you know about THC" Election update? Flash pull that up.
‘Wombat can you show up to just one show sober?’
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United States10575 Posts
On November 07 2020 07:58 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. I would host a daily hour long show where we observe a picture of Bisu and discuss the amazing feelings it invokes in our souls.
I will pull an Alex Jones and walk onto your set and mess with you.
On November 07 2020 08:00 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 07:41 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:38 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 07 2020 07:34 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. Sounds like a Joe Rogan podcast lmfao "So what do you know about THC" Election update? Flash pull that up. ‘Wombat can you show up to just one show sober?’
Wombat downs another shot as more votes from PA come in.
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What % difference between Trump and Biden will be by the time all the votes get counted by estimation of the votes that are being counted?
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On November 07 2020 07:11 Zerothegreat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 06:30 Nebuchad wrote:On November 07 2020 06:21 Zerothegreat wrote:On November 07 2020 06:10 pmh wrote:
I dont think objective journalism is dead but its harder to find.
Cnn i do like but i guess that is more based on the fact that i have been watching them for over 20 years now. I dont like the way they where in the past 4 years bar a small amount of exceptions like Blitzer and King.
Their constant bashing of Trump on any possible subject did annoy me a lot actually but looking back maybe they thought it was "needed" as a counterweight to Fox.
The media landscape in the usa is somewhat different from the media landscape in northern europe where we have things like BBC (uk),"vpro" (the netherlands) and "canvas" (belgium) (these i watch most but there is more) which have very nuanced vieuws and reporting.
ABC which i did discover during this election is quiet decent though.
Speaking about Fox. Going to watch "the loudest voice" which is on in a few minutes. For those who want to understand how some of the USA media is working on the inside this show is definitely worth watching (and its very good in general,also when vieuwed only for entertainment). CNN lost me when they kept claiming "Facts First." While their hosts also called every Trump voter a racist without evidence. The word racist gets thrown in every argument left leaning media disagrees with. The word doesn't even mean anything anymore. 0% chance that CNN said every Trump voter is racist. It's mostly true, but they would never say it. Here it is in another segment I found: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/politics/black-voters-2020-election-donald-trump-white-nationalism/index.htmlAnd here is another segment of CNN attacking voters: https://video.foxnews.com/v/6185625550001#sp=show-clipsIt is bias as can be. And the fact you say it is mostly true means you should explain how you draw that conclusion? The leader of Proud Boys is not white. Trump made waves with more minority voters than any Republican in decades. So you need to provide evidence not wild accusations.
Did you read the article you linked? The author does not say that every Trump voter is racist. He gives an opinion on how republicans whilst having minority support cling onto power by utilising gerrymandering and various means of disenfranchisement. EDIT: and the author points out how this is visible but doesn't deter voters from supporting republicans.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:00 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 07:58 BisuDagger wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:On November 07 2020 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's kind of weird that the election is not called already isn't it? I mean, how is Trump supposed to come back in PA? It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al. ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. I would host a daily hour long show where we observe a picture of Bisu and discuss the amazing feelings it invokes in our souls. I will pull an Alex Jones and walk onto your set and mess with you. Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:41 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:38 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 07 2020 07:34 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 07:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 07:25 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 06:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 07 2020 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 06:11 Nevuk wrote:
[quote]
It's been called by at least three outlets. Decision Desk, Vox, and Business Times have all called it for Biden. Not calling it is just journalistic malpractice by Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al.
ABC has a long standing policy that they won't call an election that is <1% of the vote, which is the only reason I'm excluding them. The issue is that every second they delay calling it is one that lets these conspiracies get worse. Yeah that makes sense. The NYT still hasn't called it either though. No idea what they are doing.. NYT doesn't have a decision desk that calls elections--they follow the calls made by AP and the big TV decision desks. They do review them, and may decline to follow a call if they're not convinced (such as in Arizona), but they won't call races themselves. imagine NYT not having a decision desk but Teamliquid does. We’d make a pretty sweet cable news channel. You’d have Flash FloodingTM keeping up with elections, a daily 4 hour debate between Jimmi and GH and the rest of the air time would consist of loose unstructured round table discussions about all sorts. Anyone who transgressed in the round table would be dealt with by the mods emerging from the floor and hitting them repeatedly with giant inflatable banhammers. Sounds like a Joe Rogan podcast lmfao "So what do you know about THC" Election update? Flash pull that up. ‘Wombat can you show up to just one show sober?’ Wombat downs another shot as more votes from PA come in.
Conforming entirely to stereotype I only drink Guinness. Primarily for pacing purposes.
As per your Bisu point I would genuinely love some kind of community retrospectives on players and stories, a la good sports documentaries.
As a pleb who only got into pro BW backwards from SC2, watching the Nony/Day9 cast of Bisu ascending to bring the Revolutionist and dismantling Savior was cool as fuck.
Hell the King of Kong was compelling and that game is no BW.
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On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good
Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this:
Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation.
envs.ucsc.edu
The simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness.
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On November 07 2020 08:01 LightningStrike wrote:
What % difference between Trump and Biden will be by the time all the votes get counted by estimation of the votes that are being counted?
No clue but as wild guess i think popular vote will get close to 5m ahead for biden.
California has quiet a bit left to count probably.
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On November 07 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this: Show nested quote +Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation. envs.ucsc.eduThe simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness.
I agree. I also think the vast majority could not care less, and will resist being educated. Meanwhile good luck keeping the people who pursue revolution for the sake of accumulating power out of your revolution.
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On November 07 2020 08:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this: Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation. envs.ucsc.eduThe simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness. I agree. I also think the vast majority could not care less, and will resist being educated. Meanwhile good luck keeping the people who pursue revolution for the sake of accumulating power out of your revolution.
People really don't like confronting the moral atrocity of being comfortable enough to not care enough to do even the bare minimum of liberating themselves. One reason I've been trying to find a way to gamify it in a way that doesn't undermine the guidance on manipulation.
If people here spent a fraction of the time understanding liberation that they do Starcraft or their game/sport of choice we'd be quite a force.
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One of the GOP's top brain trusts begging for barr to intervene in the vote. He isn't alone, either. Lots of them are whining that Barr won't interfere.
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On November 07 2020 08:13 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:01 LightningStrike wrote:
What % difference between Trump and Biden will be by the time all the votes get counted by estimation of the votes that are being counted? No clue but as wild guess i think popular vote will get close to 5m ahead for biden. California has quiet a bit left to count probably.
I forgot put in for Pennsylvania not the entire election >.<
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On November 07 2020 07:27 JimmiC wrote:I'm not sure if this is for the Covid thread or here, but here is my best guess. The places with the biggest covid surges voted Trump. So depending on how these counties handle it, they might not all be Trump supporters in a few months. U.S. counties with highest virus surges overwhelmingly voted Trump, analysis shows https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-counties-election-1.5792180
I think that is obvious considering they are all about frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedommm. like please.
free them of stupidity and hopefully less people will to die.
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United States10575 Posts
Calling Charlie Kirk a GOP top brain trust is... well idk, giving him a little too much credit. Dude is a literal joke.
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhMV8MfXYAAsKUX.jpg)
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good Well the "complicated" version of why treating people like idiots in this manner is inadvisable goes like this: Show nested quote +Revolutionary praxis must stand opposed to the praxis of the dominant elites, for they are by nature antithetical. Revolutionary praxis cannot tolerate an absurd dichotomy in which the praxis of the people is merely that of following the leaders decisions—a dichotomy reflecting the prescriptive methods of the dominant elites. Revolutionary praxis is a unity, and the leaders cannot treat the oppressed as their possession.
Manipulation, sloganizing, "depositing," regimentation, and prescription cannot be components of revolutionary praxis, precisely because they are components of the praxis of domination. In order to dominate, the dominator has no choice but to deny true praxis to the people, deny them the right to say their own word and think their own thoughts. He and she cannot act dialogically; for to do so would mean either that they had relinquished their power to dominate and joined the cause of the oppressed, or had lost that power through miscalculation.
Obversely, revolutionary leaders who do not act dialogically in their relations with the people either have retained characteristics of the dominator and are not truly revolutionary; or they are totally misguided in their conception of their role, and, prisoners of their own sectarianism, are equally non-revolutionary. They may even reach power. But the validity of any revolution resulting from antidialogical action is thoroughly doubtful.
It is absolutely essential that the oppressed participate in the revolutionary process with an increasingly critical awareness of their role as Subjects of the transformation. If they are drawn into the process as ambiguous beings, partly themselves and partly the oppressors housed within them—and if they come to power still embodying that ambiguity imposed on them by the situation of oppression—it is my contention that they will merely imagine they have reached power. Their existential duality may even facilitate the rise of a sectarian climate leading to the installation of bureaucracies which undermine the revolution. If the oppressed do not become aware of this ambiguity during the course of the revolutionary process, they may participate in that process with a spirit more revanchist than revolutionary They may aspire to revolution as a means of domination, rather than as a road to liberation. envs.ucsc.eduThe simple version is that you can't trick people into liberation like you can subjugation. Freedom requires critical consciousness.
Why do you have to make the revolution so blooming difficult GH?
But no Freire is pretty bang on the money here, the skipping of such a stage has historically not exactly lead to ideal results.
Not sure if it was you or Nevuk who mentioned Eugene Debs in the thread but cheers as a tangential point. Fascinating reading to go deep dive on a guy I hadn’t even heard of before, and I’m not horrifically badly read.
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Canada13427 Posts
On November 07 2020 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 08:13 pmh wrote:On November 07 2020 08:01 LightningStrike wrote:
What % difference between Trump and Biden will be by the time all the votes get counted by estimation of the votes that are being counted? No clue but as wild guess i think popular vote will get close to 5m ahead for biden. California has quiet a bit left to count probably. I forgot put in for Pennsylvania not the entire election >.<
Various sources have said 35k ahead for Biden would mathematically put biden as winning. Of those known left uncounted once he gets to 35k ahead (if he does) he would have clinched Penn.
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EPT
