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Referring to Idiocracy is an interesting move, it's not exactly difficult to dream up Idiocracy fan fic where, sometime during Luke Wilson's cryogenic slumber, the last glimmer of hope for rational leadership fades away as supposed experts try to explain to the voting population why Brawndo isn't good for plants. Idiots, the majority of the crowd thinks, if Brawndo is good for me, why wouldn't it be good for plants?
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On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic.
Yeah but not all populism is equally effective. It never seemed like "big corporate man bad" stuff worked particularly well on the American electorate. They hate bureaucrats and politicians and love "drain the swamp", maybe taking on big tech is something will work, but when you start populist left-wing rhetoric they all run for the gun store.
There's also a much stronger conflict between the liberal intelligentsia and a populist program than there is within the GOP. Trump's populism works much better with the rest of the GOP than it does with the Democratic establishment who'll probably balk at just becoming an idiot party.
It's also obviously just horrible for the country overall, because much of it is just bad policy.
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On November 07 2020 04:38 farvacola wrote:
Referring to Idiocracy is an interesting move, it's not exactly difficult to dream up Idiocracy fan fic where, sometime during Luke Wilson's cryogenic slumber, the last glimmer of hope for rational leadership fades away as supposed experts try to explain to the voting population why Brawndo isn't good for plants. Idiots, majority of the crowd things, if Brawndo is good for me, why wouldn't it be good for plans?
It's obviously a hyperbole, but if you race to the bottom with both sides cranking the bullshit up to eleven, that's where it eventually leads. Obviously not exactly like in the movie, but stupidity doesn't need to look like actual low IQ.
An entire country on the level of anti-vaxxers and flat earthers, i mean.. You do you, doesn't sound great to me though.
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But your politics are still - in a democracy at least - built from the ground up. If you can't get the average person with an iq of 100 to understand what you stand for, they won't vote for you. Plain and simple.
Your goal as a politician - if you want to win - is literally getting through to the lowest common denominator. Sadly, this stifles progress incredibly.
aka, history has shown time and time again that populism wins.
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On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote: Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff.
Florida voted enthusiastically for Bernie's 15 dollar minimum wage.
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United States44205 Posts
On November 07 2020 04:41 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. Yeah but not all populism is equally effective. It never seemed like "big corporate man bad" stuff worked particularly well on the American electorate. They hate bureaucrats and politicians and love "drain the swamp", maybe taking on big tech is something will work, but when you start populist left-wing rhetoric they all run for the gun store. There's also a much stronger conflict between the liberal intelligentsia and a populist program than there is within the GOP. Trump's populism works much better with the rest of the GOP than it does with the Democratic establishment who'll probably balk at just becoming an idiot party. It's also obviously just horrible for the country overall, because much of it is just bad policy.
As Trump showed, you don't actually need to implement any of the policy. People will believe it, whether or not you do it. The point is to win. If the voter is wondering why they can't work in a factory like their dad then it's no good going on a long lecture about how American factory output is actually higher than ever but that the jobs have changed from machinists to automation engineers meanwhile the end of the Cold War and the hegemony of global capitalism has opened up foreign markets for investment by American manufacturers which was, when you think about it, always what victory was going to look like. You need to say "China stole them, and the neoliberal billionaire cucks helped them do it".
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On November 07 2020 04:41 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:38 farvacola wrote:
Referring to Idiocracy is an interesting move, it's not exactly difficult to dream up Idiocracy fan fic where, sometime during Luke Wilson's cryogenic slumber, the last glimmer of hope for rational leadership fades away as supposed experts try to explain to the voting population why Brawndo isn't good for plants. Idiots, majority of the crowd things, if Brawndo is good for me, why wouldn't it be good for plans? It's obviously a hyperbole, but if you race to the bottom with both sides cranking the bullshit up to eleven, that's where it eventually leads. Obviously not exactly like in the movie, but stupidity doesn't need to look like actual low IQ. An entire country on the level of anti-vaxxers and flat earthers, i mean.. You do you, doesn't sound great to me though.
I think the missing link is that success is never an end unto itself, a moral precept that Dems have over-internalized so much that they oftentimes see fit to be technically correct, but out of power. In utilizing low hanging fruit simplifications to gain votes, Dems are much more likely to do something with the success that follows in service of improving the lives of average Americans, which is where the push to fight off Idiocracy can actually take material hold. If the left-wing of the party can keep up its advocacy while the party line bends to accommodate the over-simple rhetoric needed to actually win, good stuff can happen.
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It doesnt have to be bullshit, just simplified, Bernie is a good example of someone who simplifies his policy imo.
I mean, yeah, theres 100% the risk of bullshit creeping in and infecting the rhetoric, the Republicans have been playing that game for a while now, but we're going to need to elevate the electorate before we can start relying on current Democrat levels of policy talk imo
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On November 07 2020 04:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:41 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. Yeah but not all populism is equally effective. It never seemed like "big corporate man bad" stuff worked particularly well on the American electorate. They hate bureaucrats and politicians and love "drain the swamp", maybe taking on big tech is something will work, but when you start populist left-wing rhetoric they all run for the gun store. There's also a much stronger conflict between the liberal intelligentsia and a populist program than there is within the GOP. Trump's populism works much better with the rest of the GOP than it does with the Democratic establishment who'll probably balk at just becoming an idiot party. It's also obviously just horrible for the country overall, because much of it is just bad policy. As Trump showed, you don't actually need to implement any of the policy. People will believe it, whether or not you do it. The point is to win. If the voter is wondering why they can't work in a factory like their dad then it's no good going on a long lecture about how American factory output is actually higher than ever but that the jobs have changed from machinists to automation engineers meanwhile the end of the Cold War and the hegemony of global capitalism has opened up foreign markets for investment by American manufacturers which was, when you think about it, always what victory was going to look like. You need to say "China stole them, and the neoliberal billionaire cucks helped them do it".
That's a very cynical point of view if you're only interested in winning. At some point that does start to alienate people who may care enough to at least want to lie to themselves that there is some integrity and ideals behind the drive to win the race. Now when that point comes is debatable but pure populism will alienate probably the exact progressives that would benefit from winning the election that way.
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On November 07 2020 04:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:41 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. Yeah but not all populism is equally effective. It never seemed like "big corporate man bad" stuff worked particularly well on the American electorate. They hate bureaucrats and politicians and love "drain the swamp", maybe taking on big tech is something will work, but when you start populist left-wing rhetoric they all run for the gun store. There's also a much stronger conflict between the liberal intelligentsia and a populist program than there is within the GOP. Trump's populism works much better with the rest of the GOP than it does with the Democratic establishment who'll probably balk at just becoming an idiot party. It's also obviously just horrible for the country overall, because much of it is just bad policy. As Trump showed, you don't actually need to implement any of the policy. People will believe it, whether or not you do it. The point is to win. If the voter is wondering why they can't work in a factory like their dad then it's no good going on a long lecture about how American factory output is actually higher than ever but that the jobs have changed from machinists to automation engineers meanwhile the end of the Cold War and the hegemony of global capitalism has opened up foreign markets for investment by American manufacturers which was, when you think about it, always what victory was going to look like. You need to say "China stole them, and the neoliberal billionaire cucks helped them do it".
The nihilism of the far-right is unique to them. The left and center-left runs on a surplus of good will and hope for the future. The Democratic party will never have an analogue to the Joker style politics of Trump because they need to deliver or people will hold them accountable. Not exactly fair, but that's how it is, they still operate in the real world.
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This discussion about rhetoric and narratives reminds me of this Politico article that contrasted Obama's leadership to Biden's. In brief, Obama was the technocratic policy wonk who was a poor Senate negotiator, while Biden was the patient bridge-builder and empath who listens to people from Scranton. We will probably be able to compare how well the two sell their policies and ideas from two very different styles: Obama's "We know what's good for you more than you know yourself because we have reams of policy papers" vs. Biden's "I'm listening to your anxieties and questions, and here's what we can decide so both of us leave happy".
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On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. You won't win the son of a coal miner who wants to follow in his dads footsteps by having a realistic answer even if its super simplistic, when the other guy promises to open the coal mine back up.
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Looking at the results map, it seems Wyoming is by far the state with the highest % of Trump voters at 70.4%. Given that I know practically nothing about Wyoming (except that it looks like a amazingly beautiful place on an image search), why does this state lean particularly hard red?
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On November 07 2020 04:34 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. Yeah, lets make Idiocracy a documentary. Race to the bottom, here we come! Show nested quote +Meanwhile, Republicans don't explain anything and instead lean heavily on quotidian sentiments like kitchen table economics, with relatively great success. They don't need to, because the average Trump voter doesn't give a shit why brown people are banned to come into the country. It's much different to, for example, do the opposite based on populism. In fact, the entire argument is retarded considering Trump LOST the election, proving that it doesn't work. I don't think Trump's loss proves that at all. If Trump wasn't such a complete moron himself but remotely competent his message probably would have been enough to win.
Heck even with Trump being Trump, if Covid hadn't happened he may well have won.
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On November 07 2020 04:58 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Looking at the results map, it seems Wyoming is by far the state with the highest % of Trump voters at 70.4%. Given that I know practically nothing about Wyoming (except that it looks like a amazingly beautiful place on an image search), why does this state lean particularly hard red?
I'd guess it's because Wyoming is a unique mix of salt of the earth ranchers and extremely wealthy second homers. Jackson Hole is a really weird place, and not in the oh so cool Portland way, in the, how can people have this much wealth located this far away from everything else way.
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On November 07 2020 04:58 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Looking at the results map, it seems Wyoming is by far the state with the highest % of Trump voters at 70.4%. Given that I know practically nothing about Wyoming (except that it looks like a amazingly beautiful place on an image search), why does this state lean particularly hard red?
Because there are probably more cattle than people in Wyoming.
It's so rural that the rural Trumper culture absolutely dominates. It's largest metro area is the size of a large suburb (i.e. a single city) in Minnesota, and Minnesota isn't even that populated.
It's hard for me to even comprehend an entire state that rural, and I grew up in a rural area.
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On November 07 2020 05:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:58 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Looking at the results map, it seems Wyoming is by far the state with the highest % of Trump voters at 70.4%. Given that I know practically nothing about Wyoming (except that it looks like a amazingly beautiful place on an image search), why does this state lean particularly hard red? Because there are probably more cattle than people in Wyoming. It's so rural that the rural Trumper culture absolutely dominates. It's largest metro area is the size of a large suburb (i.e. a single city) in Minnesota, and Minnesota isn't even that populated. It's hard for me to even comprehend an entire state that rural, and I grew up in a rural area.
The city I group in in CA has 1/5th the population of Wyomin. Its not a big city, its so small that nobody whos not from the south bay has ever heard of it
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In fact, the entire argument is retarded considering Trump LOST the election, proving that it doesn't work.
Is it? He got far more votes than last time, they lost ground in the house and the senate majority seems likely to hold.
I think the main strength of the GOP has been the ability to stay together despite having a divisive outsider like Trump on top. The democrats can be their own worst enemy by fighting within themselves.
I have wondered why the DEMs have not tried to throw more wedges into the GOP machinery to split them up. Trump might be a golden opportunity to do just that in nasty ways. Stick him to them on every corner, confront them with having backed him up and force them to take a stand for or against him. The GOP will have a major identity crisis now, and this is the chance to make it worse.
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Northern Ireland27236 Posts
On November 07 2020 04:35 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 04:32 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2020 04:29 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 04:18 Nyxisto wrote:On November 07 2020 04:09 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2020 04:05 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Dems should have learned one thing from this election then it is that they need to stop the progressive shift. The loss of Hispanic and Latino voters in Florida is a total disaster, and imagine what would have happened if some hardcore Green New Deal type candidate had run in Pennsylvania. Given the results now it looks like pretty much anyone but Klobuchar maybe would have gotten rolled in this election. I keep hearing people say that Progressives are bad cause Florida but I do have to point this out You DO know that Biden DID NOT WIN FLORIDA, right? The Conservative Democrat lost that Hispanic Latino Florida voter. Biden's not a conservative democrat. He ran as left, if not to the left of Clinton and evidently all the "he's a socialist" smears by Trump sticked with the Cuban vote. If the party hadn't shifted so far during the primary in particular, his lying wouldn't have been able to stick that hard. On November 07 2020 04:14 KwarK wrote:
The Democrats need to learn to bullshit. They need to search the party for their best Sam Elliot impersonator and then have him tell everyone that every problem has a simple answer but that the Republicans are too in the pocket of big business to do it. Wars can't be won because Lockheed. Healthcare is expensive because of insurance companies. Food is expensive because of Monsanto. You lost your job at the factory because the vulture capitalists moved the plant to Mexico. Wages are down because businesses keep hiring immigrants illegally. Just commit to building that narrative. Then, after you win, don't do anything. I don't see this rhetoric work at all with moderate Americans, in particular minorities. Progressive rhetoric is popular with the woke college educated white crowd, Trump's gains among minorities in general a lot of which apparently trust the GOP on economic issues, shows that you need to ditch that stuff. It's not about rhetoric swaying people to left wing ideology, it's about insisting that every problem is the blame of a cabal of corrupt rich corporate fatcats and that only he will stop them because the other side work for the fatcats. Pure populism. Trump connected with people because people are idiots and so is he. When he says that the US gov should stop sending China a $300b check for the balance of trade deficit that seems like a good idea to idiots. The fact that no such check exists is irrelevant. The Democrats need to lean into the idiot demographic. We can print money out of thin air to bail out corporations, but we can’t have healthcare? Etc etc Tbh I’m not even sure you have to bullshit on some issues, just simplify the message and its emotional core. People are idiots, this is the solution to selling left wing ideals. I'm an idiot. The primary difference between me and GH as people on the left is that GH knows things about theory, whereas I am a boob who is basically driven by the state of my life and the way I feel about the world around me that causes it. Americans as a whole are not like GH imo, they're closer to me. Speak dumb, speak clear, make good sense, convince dumbs like me, work many good
I wouldn’t say you’re an idiot, me on the other hand...
I think of it as a ‘circle of simplicity’, kiddo asks you why people are homeless or starving or whatever and you tell them it’s complicated, then eventually you think ‘wait, this isn’t complicated at all in any moral sense’.
Actual policies that alleviate these problems can indeed be complicated, but the problems being problems is not, at all.
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EPT
