EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 599
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
On March 04 2022 05:17 BlackJack wrote: There are plenty of "cons." Vaccine-induced myocarditis, having to get poked with a needle, the time off off work for parents to take their children to get vaccinated, any other side effects from the vaccine, e.g. fever, body aches, sore arm, etc. What do you think the cons are? Because based on your analogy you seem to be implying that you think there aren't any cons which would be pure delusion. Everything you have listed is minor and if you're unwilling to deal with it, you should re-evaluate your decision to have children. Except for the myocarditis. Well, that does sound serious. Let's have a look at how many children in that age bracket of 5-11 are getting it. Luckily, we have this handy news article to see a direct quote from the Therapeutic Goods Administration of Australia, I'm sure they can enlighten us to this situation. We have received 10 reports of suspected myocarditis and/or pericarditis in this age group. Following review of information in the reports, none were likely to represent myocarditis. One report in a 10-year-old boy possibly represented mild pericarditis when assessed against internationally accepted criteria for this condition. Oh, okay that sounds serious. Maybe Australia has less rigorous criteria for what they consider to be a case of these conditions. Let's be liberal here and suggest all 10 cases are legitimate. Don't want to take chances with children, right? 10 cases of a disease that none of these children died from. Out of how many vaccines administered in this age bracket? The medicines regulator has also received 715 reports from about 1.1 million doses of Pfizer in children aged five to 11 – including a possible case of “mild pericarditis” in a 10-year-old boy. “The most common reactions reported included chest pain, vomiting, fever, fainting and headache,” the TGA said. Oh, okay. So 10 cases out of 1.1 million. No deaths. So now that we have context for this information, am I willing to let people be inconvenienced by the burden of having a child, while we wait for more data to make better informed decisions? Yes. Especially when it concerns a virus that can spread as quickly as this one can. Especially when it is lower risk than letting them go around unvaccinated in the first place. On March 03 2022 16:01 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I’m just stating the facts.The current jab is 12% effective at stopping transmission for 5-11 after five weeks.Healthy kids in this age group are at absolute minimal risk of being hospitalised, especially with the mild omicron variant. There really is no benefit to these jabs for healthy 5-11 year old kids, great for Pfizer’s profits of course though. Yes, I assumed that was the case.Of course higher doses of mRNA is more likely to cause side effects especially in younger age brackets which is why Moderna (which has higher mRNA load than Pfizer) has been paused for those under 30 in several countries. Covid-19: Sweden, Norway, and Finland suspend use of Moderna vaccine in young people “as a precaution” https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2477 Stating the facts, without context, is hardly stating anything at all. Who's recommendation is it that we pause vaccination entirely in this age bracket? Because thus far, you haven't provided a single one. But, let's look at this cool article here! It's referring to a suspension in late 2021, regarding the age bracket of "any male born after 1990". We're talking radically different physiologies here, and a suspension given out to Moderna specifically in Finland and Sweden. So a very cool tangential derailing and moving of the subject away from the original topic, but not totally unexpected. So, let's begin to analyze the article in question and it's sources, and do some further digging since this is an article from October 11th, 2021, and I'm sure there's more up-to-date data regarding it. Let's check out who's offering Moderna right now. You seem to be able to book it in Sweden right now! + Show Spoiler + Norway continues as it had originally, which as it turns out was never a suspension in the first place! merely a suggestion! + Show Spoiler + Likely due to the WHO having stated that the risk of myocarditis related to vaccination is extremely low, mild and very responsive to treatment, which considering the alternative is pretty low risk given context. + Show Spoiler + And Finland continues to not offer it for males under 30. But you can get it if you're a girl in that age bracket! + Show Spoiler + "Norway kinda suggests not using Moderna even though you're at a higher risk of dying to COVID-19 than it's side effects which the WHO has stated is a mild case of myocarditis that responds well to treatment, also Sweden suspends it's use for 60 days but currently offers it while Finland bans it's use in Males under the age of 30 but is otherwise very content to continue vaccinating with Moderna in ages > 30 if you're male, and never suspended it for women in the first place" Isn't an entirely snappy headline (or pointless point to make) so I get it. Maybe your sources are just trying to make money by getting clicks. I respect the hustle, I understand the game. But, unfortunately for the point you attempted to make, there's actually not very many places that have an effective suspension of Moderna at the moment. So one does wonder why you attempt to make the point that these are significant risks in the first place, especially considering the rate of myocarditis is both extremely low, and mild when it does occur, in all age brackets, and seemingly most health agencies seem to recommend continuing vaccination policy as it's benefits far outweigh the very tiny risks. Funnily enough, your own government has put out a pretty cool fact sheet regarding this issue, tied to an article about them approving Moderna vaccination in that age bracket. Check it out, it has some pretty interesting numbers regarding how at risk you are of developing mild myocarditis/pericarditis. And it's not hard to infer, from there, how much riskier even the wet noodle arms of omicron are compared. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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BlackJack
United States10347 Posts
On March 05 2022 01:56 goiflin wrote: Everything you have listed is minor and if you're unwilling to deal with it, you should re-evaluate your decision to have children. Except for the myocarditis. Well, that does sound serious. Let's have a look at how many children in that age bracket of 5-11 are getting it. Luckily, we have this handy news article to see a direct quote from the Therapeutic Goods Administration of Australia, I'm sure they can enlighten us to this situation. Oh, okay that sounds serious. Maybe Australia has less rigorous criteria for what they consider to be a case of these conditions. Let's be liberal here and suggest all 10 cases are legitimate. Don't want to take chances with children, right? 10 cases of a disease that none of these children died from. Out of how many vaccines administered in this age bracket? Oh, okay. So 10 cases out of 1.1 million. No deaths. So now that we have context for this information, am I willing to let people be inconvenienced by the burden of having a child, while we wait for more data to make better informed decisions? Yes. Especially when it concerns a virus that can spread as quickly as this one can. Especially when it is lower risk than letting them go around unvaccinated in the first place. Yeah, vaccine-induced myocarditis is incredibly rare. I hope you didn't spend too much time trying to prove something I would have happily conceded. My point is that a healthy child becoming seriously ill or dying of COVID is also incredibly rare. There's a lot of bad ideas here. One bad idea is Mohdoo's idea that we should compel people to do something so long as a feather would tip the scales into it being more beneficial than harmful. All while, like you, openly admitting that you don't care about any of the inconveniences or "cons" because you deem them minor. This is the workings of a benevolent dictator, not of good public health policy. Another bad idea that gets propagated in this thread is this eye-rolling false equivalency that we already mandate vaccines for school children so the COVID vaccine is no different. Yeah most of the stuff we vaccinate children for has a reasonable chance to kill them and the vaccines often offer a lifetime of immunity. We don't vaccinate healthy children against a disease that has a 0.00001% chance to kill them with a vaccine that offers them immunity for a handful of weeks. In fact it's quite obvious people are arguing in bad faith because if they wanted to use a more apt comparison they would just compare it to the flu vaccine but they obviously don't do that because, surprise, the flu-vaccine is not required to attend public school. + Show Spoiler + I should mention that you have not explicitly stated your opinion on whether children aged 5-11 should be compelled to take the COVID vaccine. So you could very well be in agreement with my stance that the shot should be offered to all children and especially recommended for at-risk children. Just not compelled in the way that Mohdoo and others here would like to see. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10347 Posts
On March 04 2022 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote: I think the US is dropping restrictions too early again. We know ba.2 exists, research indicates it's even more contagious than Omicron and each infection is another opportunity for the evolutionary pressures to push yet another variant that better evades immune response. www.usnews.com What's the rationale for believing we are dropping restrictions too early because ba.2 exists? Is there reason to believe if we wait a little longer it will cease to exist? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13818 Posts
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ThePhan2m
Norway2750 Posts
They confirm among others that: - The covid vaccine is more deadly than the disease itself for everyone below 50 years. For younger adults and children, the vaccine represents no advantage, only risk. - All agegroups under 50 have a bigger risk of dieing from the vaccine than from Covid. - For the age group under 18 it is 51 times greater chance to die from the vaccine than from covid. - In the categorys from 60 and older, the risk is less. From the age 60-69 the vaccine will kill one for every person it saves from covid-death. - The data shows an underreporting of american deaths to US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) with a factor of 20. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44052 Posts
On March 05 2022 20:51 ThePhan2m wrote: Recently a Texan court ordered documents realized from Pfizer, that were meant to be held secret for another 75 years by the FDA. They confirm among others that: - The covid vaccine is more deadly than the disease itself for everyone below 50 years. For younger adults and children, the vaccine represents no advantage, only risk. - All agegroups under 50 have a bigger risk of dieing from the vaccine than from Covid. - For the age group under 18 it is 51 times greater chance to die from the vaccine than from covid. - In the categorys from 60 and older, the risk is less. From the age 60-69 the vaccine will kill one for every person it saves from covid-death. - The data shows an underreporting of american deaths to US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) with a factor of 20. I'm assuming this is sarcasm and/or satire about just how easy it is to fabricate nonsensical claims. Edit: Based on the new ban, maybe you're just crazy  | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10347 Posts
On March 05 2022 15:20 Sermokala wrote: You guys have gone way too long without realizing that some people just don't understand how the decisions are made and how basic concepts of math work. Being on facebook still with some insane relatives has exposed me to this ilk and made me immune to their stupidity.. Before any COVID vaccines were approved the FDA released guidelines that set the minimum requirement for COVID vaccine effectiveness at 50%. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/30/fda-says-it-would-clear-a-coronavirus-vaccine-so-long-as-its-safe-and-at-least-50percent-effective.html Now people want to argue that 12% is good enough to vaccinate all children aged 5-11 because, hey, 12% is better than 0%. Of course the threshold of 0% is one they pulled out of their ass and the threshold of 50% is one that the experts set. Ironic, isn't it? "People just don't understand how the decisions are made and how basic concepts of math work." The literal people tasked with making the decisions are the ones that set the parameters that this vaccine would not have been approved under. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
> https://tropeninstitut.de/aktuelle-krankheitsmeldungen/31.12.2021-welt-omikron There are links to over 20 papers from all over the world! The site is completely German, but here is the "overview" translated: Studies on Omikron Variant Compared to Delta: - Hospitalization rate lower by 53 to 90% - Hospital stay 3 to 4 days shorter - Risk for intensive care unit 70 to 87 % lower - Risk for ventilation 84 to 100 % lower - Risk of death 70 to 91 % lower - No overloading of the healthcare system in Germany and Switzerland to be expected - No more severe disease progression with Omikron-BA.2 compared to BA.1 - BA.2 wave unlikely due to low reinfection levels - Divergence between "with or because of Corona" in hospitalization rates and deaths - Vaccination protects against severe disease progression | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On March 03 2022 16:01 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I’m just stating the facts.The current jab is 12% effective at stopping transmission for 5-11 after five weeks.Healthy kids in this age group are at absolute minimal risk of being hospitalised, especially with the mild omicron variant. There really is no benefit to these jabs for healthy 5-11 year old kids, great for Pfizer’s profits of course though. State of Florida no longer recommends young, healthy kids get Covid vaccine. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/florida-formally-recommend-against-covid-vaccine-children Florida to formally recommend against Covid vaccine for healthy children The surgeon general of Florida, Dr Joseph Ladapo, said on Monday the state will formally recommend against Covid-19 vaccinations for healthy children. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44052 Posts
On March 08 2022 12:39 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: State of Florida no longer recommends young, healthy kids get Covid vaccine. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/florida-formally-recommend-against-covid-vaccine-children This is a great argument for the pro-vaccine team lol. "The Florida state senate confirmed Ladapo as surgeon general despite criticism that his virus health policy is too aligned with the anti-lockdown and mandate politics of DeSantis. Late last month, Ladapo and DeSantis announced new virus policy recommendations that discouraged mask-wearing and directed physicians to exercise judgment when treating virus patients, including the use of emerging treatments and off-label medications. Last week, DeSantis made national headlines by rebuking college students in Tampa who provided a backdrop for a speech and who were wearing masks when he came to the podium." | ||
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Simberto
Germany11412 Posts
On March 08 2022 18:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is a great argument for the pro-vaccine team lol. "The Florida state senate confirmed Ladapo as surgeon general despite criticism that his virus health policy is too aligned with the anti-lockdown and mandate politics of DeSantis. Late last month, Ladapo and DeSantis announced new virus policy recommendations that discouraged mask-wearing and directed physicians to exercise judgment when treating virus patients, including the use of emerging treatments and off-label medications. Last week, DeSantis made national headlines by rebuking college students in Tampa who provided a backdrop for a speech and who were wearing masks when he came to the podium." Genius strategy 1. Elect crazypeople 2. Crazypeople do crazy stuff in their function in government 3. "See, the government is doing that thing. Thus, it cannot be crazy!" | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44052 Posts
On March 08 2022 22:48 Simberto wrote: Genius strategy 1. Elect crazypeople 2. Crazypeople do crazy stuff in their function in government 3. "See, the government is doing that thing. Thus, it cannot be crazy!" Absolutely lol. Especially in Florida. If Florida agrees with you, then you better re-evaluate your position >.> | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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