|
|
On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done.
Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues.
|
On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues.
No, you're taking an overly naive view of the situation, that is not how the world works, especially when arrogant superpowers are involved.
Same way the demonstrations and riots in Ukraine were infused with Russians in disguise making them much violent then they would've ever been otherwise, and they capitalized on it by starting an invasion, and surgically cutting off a part of Ukraine.
Superpowers always have ulterior motives, and they always benefit from such territories' riots being as bloody as possible, because otherwise they don't have a reason to intervene. Peaceful protests only benefit the protestors.
What exactly does HK have to gain from doing violent protests and bloodshed in their own land?
It makes zero sense.
in HK's case- If a bloodbath occurs, then no, there won't be anymore riots. It'll either be over, or war, HK loses in either scenario.
|
On October 21 2019 17:09 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. No, you're taking an overly naive view of the situation, that is not how the world works, especially when arrogant superpowers are involved. Same way the demonstrations and riots in Ukraine were infused with Russians in disguise making them much violent then they would've ever been otherwise, and they capitalized on it by starting an invasion, and surgically cutting off a part of Ukraine. Superpowers always have ulterior motives, and they always benefit from such territories' riots being as bloody as possible, because otherwise they don't have a reason to intervene. Peaceful protests only benefit the protestors. What exactly does HK have to gain from doing violent protests and bloodshed in their own land? It makes zero sense. in HK's case- If a bloodbath occurs, then no, there won't be anymore riots. It'll either be over, or war, HK loses in either scenario.
So you are saying that Russia helped a US backed Ukraine coup to topple a russian friendly government who was giving access to strategical ports so they can invade Ukraine and take does ports anyway risking world condemnation and sanction wrecking their economy... While just enjoying both the ports and economical growth?
The two events have nothing in common and, if anything Hong Kong rioters don't have any power to take down the government, at best what they can do is acts of vandalism and arsonism which again doesn't benefit China. China benefits if riots move on and everything is forgotten. Why would China want to take something that it's already theirs and risk world condemnation and stripping Hong Kong of it's financial status?
Are you saying that all the acts of vandalism and arsonism are mediated by the Chinese government, trashing Chinese mainland business in Hong Kong? At this point the US senate are the ones supporting the riots with the eventual sanctions to Hong Kong business which doesn't benefit anyone to say the least.
|
On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues.
The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true.
China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest.
100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government.
|
On October 21 2019 18:17 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 17:09 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. No, you're taking an overly naive view of the situation, that is not how the world works, especially when arrogant superpowers are involved. Same way the demonstrations and riots in Ukraine were infused with Russians in disguise making them much violent then they would've ever been otherwise, and they capitalized on it by starting an invasion, and surgically cutting off a part of Ukraine. Superpowers always have ulterior motives, and they always benefit from such territories' riots being as bloody as possible, because otherwise they don't have a reason to intervene. Peaceful protests only benefit the protestors. What exactly does HK have to gain from doing violent protests and bloodshed in their own land? It makes zero sense. in HK's case- If a bloodbath occurs, then no, there won't be anymore riots. It'll either be over, or war, HK loses in either scenario. So you are saying that Russia helped a US backed Ukraine coup to topple a russian friendly government who was giving access to strategical ports so they can invade Ukraine and take does ports anyway risking world condemnation and sanction wrecking their economy... While just enjoying both the ports and economical growth? .
Honestly I don't even get what you're trying to say.
and it doesn't even matter. Fact is, Russia was the one who invaded Ukraine in the end, and took a piece of their autonomous territory. Russia is the only side that gained anything of worth from it.
The two events have nothing in common and, if anything Hong Kong rioters don't have any power to take down the government, at best what they can do is acts of vandalism and arsonism which again doesn't benefit China. China benefits if riots move on and everything is forgotten. Why would China want to take something that it's already theirs and risk world condemnation and stripping Hong Kong of it's financial status?
Riots moving on and everything being forgotten is not an option and never was, so the point is mute.
China does not give a shit about world condemnation when it comes to taking HKG. All they want is to make HKG a part of China fully, and not have HK people peep about anything.
Are you saying that all the acts of vandalism and arsonism are mediated by the Chinese government, trashing Chinese mainland business in Hong Kong? At this point the US senate are the ones supporting the riots with the eventual sanctions to Hong Kong business which doesn't benefit anyone to say the least
Yes, I'm saying that a huge part of them are mediated by China.
Is everything in the world the fault of the US?
A good chunk of the entire world is supporting the riots now, why only talk about US?
|
On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government.
Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it:
"Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong"
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market
On October 21 2019 18:36 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 18:17 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 17:09 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. No, you're taking an overly naive view of the situation, that is not how the world works, especially when arrogant superpowers are involved. Same way the demonstrations and riots in Ukraine were infused with Russians in disguise making them much violent then they would've ever been otherwise, and they capitalized on it by starting an invasion, and surgically cutting off a part of Ukraine. Superpowers always have ulterior motives, and they always benefit from such territories' riots being as bloody as possible, because otherwise they don't have a reason to intervene. Peaceful protests only benefit the protestors. What exactly does HK have to gain from doing violent protests and bloodshed in their own land? It makes zero sense. in HK's case- If a bloodbath occurs, then no, there won't be anymore riots. It'll either be over, or war, HK loses in either scenario. So you are saying that Russia helped a US backed Ukraine coup to topple a russian friendly government who was giving access to strategical ports so they can invade Ukraine and take does ports anyway risking world condemnation and sanction wrecking their economy... While just enjoying both the ports and economical growth? . Honestly I don't even get what you're trying to say. and it doesn't even matter. Fact is, Russia was the one who invaded Ukraine in the end, and took a piece of their autonomous territory. Russia is the only side that gained anything of worth from it. Show nested quote +The two events have nothing in common and, if anything Hong Kong rioters don't have any power to take down the government, at best what they can do is acts of vandalism and arsonism which again doesn't benefit China. China benefits if riots move on and everything is forgotten. Why would China want to take something that it's already theirs and risk world condemnation and stripping Hong Kong of it's financial status?
Riots moving on and everything being forgotten is not an option and never was, so the point is mute. China does not give a shit about world condemnation when it comes to taking HKG. All they want is to make HKG a part of China fully, and not have HK people peep about anything. Show nested quote +
Are you saying that all the acts of vandalism and arsonism are mediated by the Chinese government, trashing Chinese mainland business in Hong Kong? At this point the US senate are the ones supporting the riots with the eventual sanctions to Hong Kong business which doesn't benefit anyone to say the least
Yes, I'm saying that a huge part of them are mediated by China. Is everything in the world the fault of the US? A good chunk of the entire world is supporting the riots now, why only talk about US?
No one supports violence, they are supporting increase in the freedom and human rights of Hong Kong people, not a revolution. I talk about the US because it's the only country that can inflict any damage to China and has the biggest track record of foreign interferences.
|
On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government. Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it: "Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market
China does care a huge part about their economical growth. But that's not the only thing they care about.
Paying the world back for their "ultimate humiliation" is by far the most important thing it seems, economical growth is just the best way to make it happen.
Also lol at the quote and article - Paul Chen must be the one deciding these matters.
EDIT: How can you even think that China won't do anything controversial? Literally everything that is happening with Blitzchung, NBA, and all the other pressure China is doing. All of it is controversial.
China doesn't have a problem with doing anything controversial, they just care about it being done in a way where people don't know they're involved.
|
On October 21 2019 18:44 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government. Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it: "Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market China does care a huge part about their economical growth. But that's not the only thing they care about. Paying the world back for their "ultimate humiliation" is by far the most important thing it seems, economical growth is just the best way to make it happen. Also lol at the quote and article - Paul Chen must be the one deciding these matters. EDIT: How can you even think that China won't do anything controversial? Literally everything that is happening with Blitzchung, NBA, and all the other pressure China is doing. All of it is controversial. China doesn't have a problem with doing anything controversial, they just care about it being done in a way where people don't know they're involved.
Territorial integrity and economical growth are the only 2 things that China really cares about, and will defend them by any means necessary. There is no master plan to humiliate the world for it's century of humiliation I don't know where people get that. China would sanction anyone supporting Hong Kong's autonomy, because it directly interferes with their interests, but it won't resort to escalating the situation with the army, because it doesn't need to. The rioters are not in a position to topple the Hong Kong government, Hong Kong is economically stable as the article I posted in my above post, the only step is for the police to take control of the situation by themselves.
|
On October 21 2019 19:13 raga4ka wrote:
Territorial integrity and economical growth are the only 2 things that China really cares about, and will defend them by any means necessary. There is no master plan to humiliate the world for it's century of humiliation I don't know where people get that. China would sanction anyone supporting Hong Kong's autonomy, because it directly interferes with their interests, but it won't resort to escalating the situation with the army, because it doesn't need to. The rioters are not in a position to topple the Hong Kong government, Hong Kong is economically stable as the article I posted in my above post, the only step is for the police to take control of the situation by themselves.
Yep HK Protestors showed that their power is very limited. It does not spark AT ALL with mainlanders, taiwanese or the World. The protests are endurable now, and they will tone down eventually. Hong Kong Protestors have no forum to proclaim independence to, even the parlament is no place for it (from my understanding, they don't really want it either) so all the protesters cause is some action for the police.
In germany we have culturized protest and destruction as well. So on first of may you can go smash some cars ans shopfronts in Hamburg and Berlin, the police will watch, and that was it. It's more like a wild party, than actual political protest.
And since it is so meaningless, the attendence gets less every year.
The future of global society is not a civil uprising against the local unbalances in wealth, power and freedom, but rather the numbing tollerance of a padded cell.
- wow that was deep as (myself in my brain)
|
On October 21 2019 19:13 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 18:44 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government. Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it: "Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market China does care a huge part about their economical growth. But that's not the only thing they care about. Paying the world back for their "ultimate humiliation" is by far the most important thing it seems, economical growth is just the best way to make it happen. Also lol at the quote and article - Paul Chen must be the one deciding these matters. EDIT: How can you even think that China won't do anything controversial? Literally everything that is happening with Blitzchung, NBA, and all the other pressure China is doing. All of it is controversial. China doesn't have a problem with doing anything controversial, they just care about it being done in a way where people don't know they're involved. Territorial integrity and economical growth are the only 2 things that China really cares about, and will defend them by any means necessary. There is no master plan to humiliate the world for it's century of humiliation I don't know where people get that. China would sanction anyone supporting Hong Kong's autonomy, because it directly interferes with their interests, but it won't resort to escalating the situation with the army, because it doesn't need to. The rioters are not in a position to topple the Hong Kong government, Hong Kong is economically stable as the article I posted in my above post, the only step is for the police to take control of the situation by themselves.
You seem so very sure about knowing everything about how everyone thinks.
The protests matter in HK because it is a democracy, even if the people won't take matters in their own hands practically and do a full blown coup the stone is rolling to change the leadership in HK. If China won't allow for democracy in HK maybe other nations will intercede like the U.S. Either way the protest actually are in a position to make huge sweeping changes as soon as they receive their ballots. China could stop that though, if they get good enough of an excuse to intervene with their military.
These matters are complex and its impossible for us "normal" people to know what is really going on behind the scenes.
|
On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:
No one supports violence, they are supporting increase in the freedom and human rights of Hong Kong people, not a revolution. I talk about the US because it's the only country that can inflict any damage to China and has the biggest track record of foreign interferences.
No one supports violence on their soil.
Other places - they most definitely do. China being part of the cream of the crop.
|
Northern Ireland24509 Posts
On October 21 2019 19:13 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 18:44 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government. Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it: "Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market China does care a huge part about their economical growth. But that's not the only thing they care about. Paying the world back for their "ultimate humiliation" is by far the most important thing it seems, economical growth is just the best way to make it happen. Also lol at the quote and article - Paul Chen must be the one deciding these matters. EDIT: How can you even think that China won't do anything controversial? Literally everything that is happening with Blitzchung, NBA, and all the other pressure China is doing. All of it is controversial. China doesn't have a problem with doing anything controversial, they just care about it being done in a way where people don't know they're involved. Territorial integrity and economical growth are the only 2 things that China really cares about, and will defend them by any means necessary. There is no master plan to humiliate the world for it's century of humiliation I don't know where people get that. China would sanction anyone supporting Hong Kong's autonomy, because it directly interferes with their interests, but it won't resort to escalating the situation with the army, because it doesn't need to. The rioters are not in a position to topple the Hong Kong government, Hong Kong is economically stable as the article I posted in my above post, the only step is for the police to take control of the situation by themselves.
It certainly comes up a lot as a talking point when Chinese posters appear on threads such as this or elsewhere.
Of course it doesn’t necessarily follow that the corridors of power are motivated by such sentiments. It could very well be the case that territorial integrity and economic growth are the sole motivators there, but the ‘avenging humiliation’ angle being quite useful to drum up support.
|
National humiliation is not something the entire nation just starts feeling themselves. It's something that the government pushes on to the population with lots and lots of brainwashing and propoganda.
I say this as a person from a country that has seen its fair share of humiliation and the sort.
There's no doubt that it is a driving factor in decision-making when it comes to China's goals.
|
On October 21 2019 20:27 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 19:13 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:44 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government. Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it: "Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market China does care a huge part about their economical growth. But that's not the only thing they care about. Paying the world back for their "ultimate humiliation" is by far the most important thing it seems, economical growth is just the best way to make it happen. Also lol at the quote and article - Paul Chen must be the one deciding these matters. EDIT: How can you even think that China won't do anything controversial? Literally everything that is happening with Blitzchung, NBA, and all the other pressure China is doing. All of it is controversial. China doesn't have a problem with doing anything controversial, they just care about it being done in a way where people don't know they're involved. Territorial integrity and economical growth are the only 2 things that China really cares about, and will defend them by any means necessary. There is no master plan to humiliate the world for it's century of humiliation I don't know where people get that. China would sanction anyone supporting Hong Kong's autonomy, because it directly interferes with their interests, but it won't resort to escalating the situation with the army, because it doesn't need to. The rioters are not in a position to topple the Hong Kong government, Hong Kong is economically stable as the article I posted in my above post, the only step is for the police to take control of the situation by themselves. It certainly comes up a lot as a talking point when Chinese posters appear on threads such as this or elsewhere. Of course it doesn’t necessarily follow that the corridors of power are motivated by such sentiments. It could very well be the case that territorial integrity and economic growth are the sole motivators there, but the ‘avenging humiliation’ angle being quite useful to drum up support. Avenging humiliation is a great way to drum up nationalist support and resonates well with them.
I highly doubt those in charge care about it, they just want to ensure control over the population and a democratic HK runs against that and could serve as a basis for dissent on the mainland. That is why it will inevitably be stamped out.
Pretty much every dictatorship in the world thinks of a reason why the rest of the world is their enemy and the people must unite behind the government.
|
On October 21 2019 15:56 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 02:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:
First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US.
The internet lounges and PC Bangs in the worst areas of Toronto all forbid wearing anything that covers one's face including any kind of hood. Very generally speaking, I support a face mask ban. does Toronto have face recognition cameras installed everywhere which are actively used and is Toronto known to make people disappear and then reappear again dead and naked in the river? If I were in such a place, I'd very much prefer to wear a mask, thank you.
Toronto has a murder rate similar to New York State. In fact, last year Toronto's murder rate was slightly higher than New York City's murder rate.
In the face of increased violent crime politicians have elected to increase street cameras throughout the city.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/were-coming-for-you-ontario-funds-more-cctv-cameras-in-toronto-to-fight-gun-crime
i don't know what the right answers are man.
|
On October 21 2019 20:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 15:56 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 02:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:
First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US.
The internet lounges and PC Bangs in the worst areas of Toronto all forbid wearing anything that covers one's face including any kind of hood. Very generally speaking, I support a face mask ban. does Toronto have face recognition cameras installed everywhere which are actively used and is Toronto known to make people disappear and then reappear again dead and naked in the river? If I were in such a place, I'd very much prefer to wear a mask, thank you. Toronto has a murder rate similar to New York State. In fact, last year Toronto's murder rate was slightly higher than New York City's murder rate. In the face of increased violent crime politicians have elected to increase street cameras throughout the city. https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/were-coming-for-you-ontario-funds-more-cctv-cameras-in-toronto-to-fight-gun-crime
that's great, but does the Canadian government actually find people who they deem as Uncanadian, and have them disappear?
EDIT: I didn't really mean regular murder rates. I meant more to the extent of there are several cases, just in the past few weeks, where pro-HKG people have disappeared, and then found tortured or dead, and for some reason all of the records of these people being on camera seem to have been lost after a certain point.
Which coincidentally is the main reason why the protesters use masks (that, and because it's defense from many of the gasses that the police use). Not wearing your mask can literally be a life-or-death question.
|
Northern Ireland24509 Posts
On October 21 2019 20:41 abuse wrote:
National humiliation is not something the entire nation just starts feeling themselves. It's something that the government pushes on to the population with lots and lots of brainwashing and propoganda.
I say this as a person from a country that has seen its fair share of humiliation and the sort.
There's no doubt that it is a driving factor in decision-making when it comes to China's goals.
Indeed, although of course not limited to governments and state apparatus.
I rarely find it a positive narrative to push, as it connects legitimate historical grievance in a direct line up to the contemporary in one big ball of aggravation.
Thankfully it’s rarer in my neck of the woods these days but even still I end up in the odd angry pub argument about what you British’ did that somehow makes it appropriate to get aggressive with someone who wasn’t alive, nor today has much in the way of political influence.
|
On October 21 2019 20:27 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2019 19:13 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:44 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 21 2019 18:21 Excludos wrote:On October 21 2019 16:46 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 21 2019 16:22 abuse wrote:On October 21 2019 00:45 raga4ka wrote:On October 15 2019 11:42 zenist wrote:
Regarding HK protest, it has been proven that many Chinese police have disguised themselves as protesters to conduct violence.
Regardless of violence though, you can't blame HKers for protesting because carrie lam (controlled by the communist party) made stupid move of barring masks. The movement was dying down after completely getting rid of the extradition bill.
This is a false statement, China doesn't gain anything by prolonging violence in Hong Kong and benefits only if Hong Kong moves on from the violence. First of all riots were not dying down, they continued even worse if you follow the news there regularly. Second the mask ban is necessary to catch rioters and vandalists and arsonists and to discourage the continuation of this acts... A normal law in many asian countries like Singapore as well as western countries like the US. I don't blame peaceful protesters, but I hope everyone who committed violence there would be dealt with the full extent of the law. I just can't support violence and vandalism: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3033714/protesters-block-roads-during-illegal-march-hong-kong how the hell is it a "false statement"? There's tons of evidence out there. Yes China does gain anything by prolonging violence in HK. The worse the situation gets, the more reason they are to interefere in a more serious, military capacity. If China is successful in making the world see this as "HK people are the ones who are violent, and they are a danger to themselves, we're moving in to ensure HK's safety" then it's precisely the best possible outcome for China. There will never be any demonstrations or riots again. HK will be done. Stop exaggerating, you are taking an overly conspiratorial view of China's strategy. This will not be the last riot and there will be plenty more riots in the future, even after 2047 when HK autonomy ends. China is a country where over 100k protest (government acknowledge number btw, real number is higher) occur each year over government corruption or social justice issues. The only reason HK can protest is exactly because they're not part of China. These aren't conspiracy theories, these things have and will happen. Just because you choose to stick your head in the dirt doesn't make it less true. China is looking for excuses to send in the military, and to that end it benefits them greatly that the protests turn violent. You have to be unrealistically naive to believe otherwise from a government who runs concentration camps, harvest organs, kills politicians and regular people who voices their opinions against the current government, who runs a dystopian nation wide facial recognition system in pure 1984 fashion, and who runs their own people over with tanks and dumptrucks when they protest. 100k protests a year? Based on whose numbers? Even Chinese mainlanders who supports their government haven't attempted to pretend they can speak up against their own government. Highly unlikely at this point in time. China most of all cares about it's economical growth. With trade war at it's peak it won't attempt to do anything controversial. Even the Hong Kong government which is pro China aren't hinting at asking Beijing to interfere and are thinking that it won't come to it: "Hong Kong finance chief Paul Chan said it was unlikely Beijing would sent forces from mainland China to end Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement. Photo: Winson Wong" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3033764/hong-kong-finance-chief-paul-chan-touts-market China does care a huge part about their economical growth. But that's not the only thing they care about. Paying the world back for their "ultimate humiliation" is by far the most important thing it seems, economical growth is just the best way to make it happen. Also lol at the quote and article - Paul Chen must be the one deciding these matters. EDIT: How can you even think that China won't do anything controversial? Literally everything that is happening with Blitzchung, NBA, and all the other pressure China is doing. All of it is controversial. China doesn't have a problem with doing anything controversial, they just care about it being done in a way where people don't know they're involved. Territorial integrity and economical growth are the only 2 things that China really cares about, and will defend them by any means necessary. There is no master plan to humiliate the world for it's century of humiliation I don't know where people get that. China would sanction anyone supporting Hong Kong's autonomy, because it directly interferes with their interests, but it won't resort to escalating the situation with the army, because it doesn't need to. The rioters are not in a position to topple the Hong Kong government, Hong Kong is economically stable as the article I posted in my above post, the only step is for the police to take control of the situation by themselves. It certainly comes up a lot as a talking point when Chinese posters appear on threads such as this or elsewhere. Of course it doesn’t necessarily follow that the corridors of power are motivated by such sentiments. It could very well be the case that territorial integrity and economic growth are the sole motivators there, but the ‘avenging humiliation’ angle being quite useful to drum up support. It was raga4ka in the first place that brought up "century of humiliation" here, an entirely PRC concept pushed by the PRC, as a reason to oppose the protests in Hong Kong. Until then it was never mentioned, an unknown concept to this forum
Funny how now that he says PRC doesn't care about it, when it so obviously does as part of its national mythmaking just so it can, successfully in raga4ka's case, to persuade people to their line of thinking.
|
Unfortunately if someone is posting on any kind of public forum or social media from within China, you can't even trust that it's their real opinion anymore. Anyone in China kinda needs to play the "no, it's actually me that has the most support for our great nation!" game. They are literally being rated on it, and their quality of life depends on it. It's very sad. I hope we can stave off this kind of oppressive system from spreading to the west.
But I am worried we won't able to....
|
On October 21 2019 22:07 travis wrote:
Unfortunately if someone is posting on any kind of public forum or social media from within China, you can't even trust that it's their real opinion anymore. Anyone in China kinda needs to play the "no, it's actually me that has the most support for our great nation!" game. They are literally being rated on it, and their quality of life depends on it. It's very sad. I hope we can stave off this kind of oppressive system from spreading to the west.
But I am worried we won't able to....
It does kind of feel like people are now recognizing how big China's ambitions are as a whole.
What happens next is up for grabs, but if major companies keep sucking on China's cucumber, then it's not going to end well indeed. Are people ok with China dictating the rules for the entire world?
The next few years will tell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
