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On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection.
Because something needs fixing doesn't mean the whole system is broken. You sound a bit like GH, which is why it doesn't surprise me they agree with you. Drone is saying "we have a gendered society, and there seem to be very many reasons for humans to have 2 genders, and for those to line up with your biological sex, for most situations, and be tolerant of cases where 2 genders don't work well" and your response is "typical for a man to think that way" without actually countering any of the points. It's worth noting that Drone is not a minority. There's probably a vast majority of both men AND women who feel that sex and gender are mostly the same thing for them, that their gender is part of their identity, and that thinking about gender at all is a bit weird.
Obviously that doesn't mean we should not be open to the whole spectrum. As Kwark loves to point out, biological sex isn't even binary, so why the hell should the social construct loosely based on it be?! But the non-binary bit of biological sex affects a small minority of people, and the same is mostly true for gender. These people should be accommodated, but there is no real reason to throw out the entire idea of a gendered society when it works well for the vast majority of people, including women. You won't be surprised to learn, I hope, that the vast majority of women LIKE being women and are proud of their identity?
And no, there is absolutely no reason to hold onto old stereotypes of macho men going out to hunt a mammoth earn the money, and subservient women who stay home and raise the kids. That is hopefully not what Drone means when he says that a gendered society is not something bad. Those are toxic ideas of gender, and they should be combated not because they are gendered, but because they are toxic.
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On September 07 2026 06:34 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 06:22 Billyboy wrote:On September 07 2026 06:21 LightSpectra wrote:On September 07 2026 06:16 Billyboy wrote:On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection. In what ways are women not benefiting from sports being split by gender? Wasn’t getting women’s professional sports a big deal? It was to all the women I know. Not when trans women are gatekept out of them for irrational and inconsistent cries of "biology". So if it’s not perfect than it’s shit, you’re sounding like some one else around here. All people of all genders are allowed in “men’s” sports. Trans women are women and should compete in women's sports. Gatekeeping based off arbitrary biological factors hurts cis and trans women alike. I've made this abundantly clear over the dozens of posts I made about the subject. And the point here is that because people insist on an arbitrarily gendered society, these conflicts are inevitable. If you want to say you don't care, then fine. But don't moralize "it works fine for me and I don't care about those for whom it doesn't work" into "therefore it's a good system".
The whole existence of professional women’s sports was to gatekeep by biological factors so that they would be able to compete.
You have made abundantly clear that this is your feelings. But the end game for what you asking for is just one professional sports league and there will not be any women, cis or otherwise. I do not see that as a win.
I do care I have a daughter who is 7 and in hockey. She didn’t want to play this year because she does not like playing with the boys. And it’s kind of interesting because she likes them all. I convinced her based on there being a girl on her team this year and that she gets to play in the girls league next year.
My buddies daughter is the best female goalie in Alberta, she left my sons provincial winning team to go 2-26 with girls hockey. When he asked her if she wanted to go back, she said no she loved playing with girls.
There is a girl at my son’s age who played on the AAA team that won provincials, super nice girl, gets along with everyone. Can clearly compete. She is switching to girls hockey this year when it becomes full contact. And she’s happy and excited to do so.
I care, likely a lot more than you as it’s very personal to me. But what I care for is what’s best for the most possible people so everyone has a chance to play and gain all the benefits of team sports. What I don’t care about is making actual rules that will exclude people because that’s how I think it should be and so I can get ultra most progressive badge.
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Northern Ireland27332 Posts
On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection.
I’m unsure if that even is the case anymore, at least not fully.
I’d much rather be a middle class cisgendered women in 2026 than a working class cis male for example
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Northern Ireland27332 Posts
On September 07 2026 06:47 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection. Because something needs fixing doesn't mean the whole system is broken. You sound a bit like GH, which is why it doesn't surprise me they agree with you. Drone is saying "we have a gendered society, and there seem to be very many reasons for humans to have 2 genders, and for those to line up with your biological sex, for most situations, and be tolerant of cases where 2 genders don't work well" and your response is "typical for a man to think that way" without actually countering any of the points. It's worth noting that Drone is not a minority. There's probably a vast majority of both men AND women who feel that sex and gender are mostly the same thing for them, that their gender is part of their identity, and that thinking about gender at all is a bit weird. Obviously that doesn't mean we should not be open to the whole spectrum. As Kwark loves to point out, biological sex isn't even binary, so why the hell should the social construct loosely based on it be?! But the non-binary bit of biological sex affects a small minority of people, and the same is mostly true for gender. These people should be accommodated, but there is no real reason to throw out the entire idea of a gendered society when it works well for the vast majority of people, including women. You won't be surprised to learn, I hope, that the vast majority of women LIKE being women and are proud of their identity? And no, there is absolutely no reason to hold onto old stereotypes of macho men going out to hunt a mammoth earn the money, and subservient women who stay home and raise the kids. That is hopefully not what Drone means when he says that a gendered society is not something bad. Those are toxic ideas of gender, and they should be combated not because they are gendered, but because they are toxic.
Thanks for your perspectives, and indeed Drone’s prior
It’s difficult to figure out where socialisation and innate nature intersect as it were.
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On September 07 2026 07:03 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection. I’m unsure if that even is the case anymore, at least not fully. I’d much rather be a middle class cisgendered women in 2026 than a working class cis male for example
Socioeconomic status may indeed be a bigger factor for predicting certain qualities of life, but I think the idea is that you control for all other variables - all else being equal - and then just compare a man and a woman who have the same socioeconomic status, race, and other identity traits.
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