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On September 06 2026 06:34 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 06:13 Sermokala wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Calling all tournaments male or female is actually more inclusive than not. Especially in esports you have the common sight of players under 18, which are refered to as boys and girls, while you have people over 18 to be called men and women. Trying to make issues out of non issues by henpecking stupid things like that is a sigh of bad faith you see a lot in the anti trans community. See the two retired NBA players who think its funny to declare themselves women so they can declare themselves for the WNBA draft. On September 06 2026 03:10 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 02:42 Billyboy wrote:This video kind of sums up my general opinion on what happens with the left with any protected group. https://youtube.com/shorts/OSgU8QUDwfg?si=aXuqanJn6HaDNWSDSpoiler for those who don’t want to watch + Show Spoiler + basically it is saying that in trying so hard to be accepting the people who want to be allies are glazi mg over, or even encouraging the bad behaviours. Treating people normally means calling out all groups equally and not giving a pass, even if they are gay, non binary, Muslim, black, indigenous, or whatever. + Show Spoiler +Suffering is bad and being a good person means trying to prevent, mitigate, and understand other people's pain. Politics can be used to do that when the cause of people's suffering is financial and/or social, such as poverty and systematic discrimination. It is not the only means of doing so, but it's easily the most consequential, which is why people have strong feelings about politics.
Unfortunately some people aren't interested in politics because they want to live in a better world, but for self interest, or boredom, or fetish fulfillment, or a lot of other unsavory reasons. But they'll never admit as much because they won't be taken seriously, so they'll be very performative about wanting a better world while actively working to make it worse by encouraging bigotry, apathy, grudges, willful ignorance, and so on. Since we don't live in a simple world where people with rotten motives are honest about them, the only solution is to apply critical thinking in good faith until their duplicity is beyond reasonable doubt. At that point, continuing to treat them in good faith is detrimental to a better world, much like how overdosing on medicine is harmful even though medicine is a good thing in itself. + Show Spoiler +
It's good to be attentive to marginalized voices. It's not a good thing to stand idly by while someone uses their experiences as a minority as a weapon against other minorities. That is making the world a worse place.
This is why I'm not just going to go out of my way on GH's pronouns. Not sure what "going out of my way" is supposed to mean, but you and dyhb depriving us of your collaborative explanations for why we should rally behind Amy Klobuchar for president in 2028 is the real crime.
Thats random as shit, she's going to the governor of Minnesota. Why would I want her ruined by shitty coasties like you?
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On September 06 2026 07:02 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 06:13 Sermokala wrote:
Calling all tournaments male or female is actually more inclusive than not. Especially in esports you have the common sight of players under 18, which are refered to as boys and girls, while you have people over 18 to be called men and women.
Trying to make issues out of non issues by henpecking stupid things like that is a sigh of bad faith you see a lot in the anti trans community. See the two retired NBA players who think its funny to declare themselves women so they can declare themselves for the WNBA draft. And, currently, one is suing on that basis. I think "bad faith" in trans works on both sides now.
What? The WNBA has never had a trans athlete; the assholes trying to make a joke of women's sports are the ones who are suing.
and they are suing beacuse Enes walked onto the court and got a stadium ban.
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On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again.
Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care.
You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up.
I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now.
Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH.
Seriously go fuck yourself.
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On September 06 2026 07:59 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 07:02 dyhb wrote:On September 06 2026 06:13 Sermokala wrote:
Calling all tournaments male or female is actually more inclusive than not. Especially in esports you have the common sight of players under 18, which are refered to as boys and girls, while you have people over 18 to be called men and women.
Trying to make issues out of non issues by henpecking stupid things like that is a sigh of bad faith you see a lot in the anti trans community. See the two retired NBA players who think its funny to declare themselves women so they can declare themselves for the WNBA draft. And, currently, one is suing on that basis. I think "bad faith" in trans works on both sides now. What? The WNBA has never had a trans athlete; the assholes trying to make a joke of women's sports are the ones who are suing. and they are suing beacuse Enes walked onto the court and got a stadium ban.
Nothing says Enes is about protecting women like him showing up to attack a bunch of women at their work place.
There is a rumour that 4 trans women are already playing. Which is fake, but humorous because if it was true would prove it’s a non issue because no one is putting up 60 a night and no one knows who they are.
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On September 06 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 03:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:50 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 00:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 00:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, this went about as well as I imagined. I can't relate to being in your position right now, but please let me know what you think about this: I feel like there are currently four* hypothetical categories of readers/posters here, especially since not everyone reads every page in this thread: 1. Those of us who had read that July conversation and became aware that you prefer they/them, and are trying to honor your preferred pronouns; 2. Those of us who had read that July conversation and became aware that you prefer they/them, but are not interested in honoring your preferred pronouns; 3. Those who were unaware of your preferred pronouns up until now, and from now on will make an effort to honor your preferred pronouns; 4. Those who were unaware of your preferred pronouns up until now, but still don't care and won't honor your preferred pronouns. I've thankfully seen a lot more people in #1 than in #2, and I hope that those who are just now learning of your preferred pronouns choose #3 over #4. *There are surely other occasional lurkers or future posters that will miss both July's and today's conversation, so they might incorrectly assume the wrong pronouns. And then we'll educate them again, and hopefully they'll choose new category #5 (being supportive) over new category #6 (not being supportive). It sounds true but incomplete? Part of the problem I predicted and we're seeing displayed is the hopeless parsing of whether someone is in 2/4 but masquerading as oblivious/accident prone 1/3's to be petty and poke. There was also the more recent reference. The " what you allow around you" part was particularly noticeable during this whole thing. It's been fascinating to see you, Wombat, and others trying to tightrope your convictions with the in-group dynamics. I know it isn't easy to overcome the Asch effect (as many, including myself, have failed many times before) and I appreciate when anyone is able to. Sure, that's definitely a fair concern. That must be exhausting to worry about, too. My understanding of the Asch effect is when someone knows a correct answer but changes their mind and picks a wrong answer because they notice that everyone else has picked that wrong answer. Conforming to the group, even when it's already known that the group is wrong. Like if someone asked me what 2+2 is, and I know the answer is 4, but I noticed that a whole bunch of my friends are saying that the answer is 7 for some reason so I join them in answering "7" instead of "4". Social pressures and whatnot. When you say that we're "trying to tightrope [our] convictions with the in-group dynamics", are you still referring to gender identity and preferred pronouns, or some other topic? (If I'm trying to apply the Asch effect to your preferred pronouns in this thread, then I feel like that's saying that I know you prefer they/them, but a whole bunch of other people are referring to you incorrectly, so I just give up on referring to you as they/them and I just repeat whatever incorrect labels other people are using for you?) Yeah, it (just misgendering in general) sorta came up at Queeraoke last night I recognized I'm enduring relatively lightwork so, but for the grace of God go I. Understandably so, you're thinking a bit too literally/mathematically. The Asch effect is why Wombat (who is ostensibly in group 1) read: On September 03 2026 09:29 Billyboy wrote:On September 03 2026 09:24 WombaT wrote:On September 03 2026 02:14 LightSpectra wrote:
I see you've chosen the laughingstock route. Don't get mad when people refuse to engage with you when you consistently meltdown when pressed too closely 🤷 Quelle fucking surprise GH alienates another potential ally and doesn’t understand why Who could have fucking thunk it? Because his actual intentions are to make himself seem important not gain political allies or the bs revolution he knows nothing about. If it was not only would he act different, but protests and not supporting and using the king capitalists manipulation tool wouldn’t be too inconvenient for him. He’s full of shit, it’s too bad some people believed him, but it’s not a bad thing to be trusting. And didn't address it. It's also part of why people have allowed JimmiC/Billyboy to say unhinged things about me for years without correcting them like you just did here. I’d somewhat disagree with that characterisation of me and the Arsch effect, indeed I’d say your talking out of your Arsch there Asch*  What's your understanding of why? I haven’t, nor will I shift my positions to bend to the general public will, whatever that may be. I may accept some dilution because well, that’s the world we all live in, that’s just basic pragmatism Your contention is as per usual as patronising as it is insulting, well done I don't think I've clearly communicated what I meant to you. I'm saying you didn't address something you otherwise would object to there (but did later, maybe snarkily, hence the "tightroping") because of a well known and pretty ubiquitous systemic phenomena (noting I've also succumbed to the Asch effect). I was asking what you thought happened instead? What do you think happened? I mean you namechecked me after all. Me thinking your approach to political discourse is fucking stupid doesn’t mean I’m subsuming my own political beliefs Nope, still got em. How are you so bad at this? I’m further left than most on this planet and basically all you do is piss me off at every possible juncture, it’s almost impressive
This is my understanding of why GH mentioned you / cited your response to Billyboy as an example of the Asch effect:
Regardless of whether Billyboy already knew GH preferred they/them instead of he/him, Billyboy used he/him to refer to GH. You then responded to Billyboy, which means you had an opportunity to give Billyboy a heads up that GH actually doesn't identify as he/him (in other words, to kindly and tactfully correct Billyboy). And that opportunity existed even if you were justifiably criticizing GH's political beliefs or GH's approach to discussion.
This is actually consistent with something Billyboy said a few hours ago: "Treating people normally means calling out all groups equally and not giving a pass, even if they are gay, non binary, Muslim, black, indigenous, or whatever." It's a bit ironic, because Billyboy might have been implying (based on what we talked about a few hours ago) that I was being too lenient with GH because I was supporting their gender identity in that moment, instead of criticizing them for a variety of things they deserve to be criticized for. GH and I have fought about several things in the past in this thread, and I absolutely believe that a non-binary person can be a jerk too. My position is: if someone's being an asshole, definitely call them out... but call them out using the proper pronouns.
In the ideal situation, you would have addressed Billyboy's mislabeling of GH, and then Billyboy would have started using they/them. Maybe you honestly just didn't catch it, but if someone were to (hypothetically) willfully ignore correcting pronouns because it might cause friction or feel uncomfortable or even just because they were too pissed off to do so, that's when the Asch effect might become relevant.
Also, that's kind of like the *second* level of true allyship. Obviously, I try to use a person's preferred pronouns all the time, to demonstrate that I'm an ally (which is the first, most fundamental level of allyship... and I admit I still mess up from time to time). If I can also take it upon myself to help others understand a person's preferred pronouns - putting myself out there publicly and not ignoring the wrong pronouns when other people say them - then that would be even more supportive than only focusing on my own statements. Maybe that's level two, or something. ::shrugs::
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On September 06 2026 08:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 03:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:50 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 00:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I can't relate to being in your position right now, but please let me know what you think about this:
I feel like there are currently four* hypothetical categories of readers/posters here, especially since not everyone reads every page in this thread:
1. Those of us who had read that July conversation and became aware that you prefer they/them, and are trying to honor your preferred pronouns;
2. Those of us who had read that July conversation and became aware that you prefer they/them, but are not interested in honoring your preferred pronouns;
3. Those who were unaware of your preferred pronouns up until now, and from now on will make an effort to honor your preferred pronouns;
4. Those who were unaware of your preferred pronouns up until now, but still don't care and won't honor your preferred pronouns.
I've thankfully seen a lot more people in #1 than in #2, and I hope that those who are just now learning of your preferred pronouns choose #3 over #4.
*There are surely other occasional lurkers or future posters that will miss both July's and today's conversation, so they might incorrectly assume the wrong pronouns. And then we'll educate them again, and hopefully they'll choose new category #5 (being supportive) over new category #6 (not being supportive). It sounds true but incomplete? Part of the problem I predicted and we're seeing displayed is the hopeless parsing of whether someone is in 2/4 but masquerading as oblivious/accident prone 1/3's to be petty and poke. There was also the more recent reference. The " what you allow around you" part was particularly noticeable during this whole thing. It's been fascinating to see you, Wombat, and others trying to tightrope your convictions with the in-group dynamics. I know it isn't easy to overcome the Asch effect (as many, including myself, have failed many times before) and I appreciate when anyone is able to. Sure, that's definitely a fair concern. That must be exhausting to worry about, too. My understanding of the Asch effect is when someone knows a correct answer but changes their mind and picks a wrong answer because they notice that everyone else has picked that wrong answer. Conforming to the group, even when it's already known that the group is wrong. Like if someone asked me what 2+2 is, and I know the answer is 4, but I noticed that a whole bunch of my friends are saying that the answer is 7 for some reason so I join them in answering "7" instead of "4". Social pressures and whatnot. When you say that we're "trying to tightrope [our] convictions with the in-group dynamics", are you still referring to gender identity and preferred pronouns, or some other topic? (If I'm trying to apply the Asch effect to your preferred pronouns in this thread, then I feel like that's saying that I know you prefer they/them, but a whole bunch of other people are referring to you incorrectly, so I just give up on referring to you as they/them and I just repeat whatever incorrect labels other people are using for you?) Yeah, it (just misgendering in general) sorta came up at Queeraoke last night I recognized I'm enduring relatively lightwork so, but for the grace of God go I. Understandably so, you're thinking a bit too literally/mathematically. The Asch effect is why Wombat (who is ostensibly in group 1) read: On September 03 2026 09:29 Billyboy wrote:On September 03 2026 09:24 WombaT wrote:On September 03 2026 02:14 LightSpectra wrote:
I see you've chosen the laughingstock route. Don't get mad when people refuse to engage with you when you consistently meltdown when pressed too closely 🤷 Quelle fucking surprise GH alienates another potential ally and doesn’t understand why Who could have fucking thunk it? Because his actual intentions are to make himself seem important not gain political allies or the bs revolution he knows nothing about. If it was not only would he act different, but protests and not supporting and using the king capitalists manipulation tool wouldn’t be too inconvenient for him. He’s full of shit, it’s too bad some people believed him, but it’s not a bad thing to be trusting. And didn't address it. It's also part of why people have allowed JimmiC/Billyboy to say unhinged things about me for years without correcting them like you just did here. I’d somewhat disagree with that characterisation of me and the Arsch effect, indeed I’d say your talking out of your Arsch there Asch* What's your understanding of why? I haven’t, nor will I shift my positions to bend to the general public will, whatever that may be. I may accept some dilution because well, that’s the world we all live in, that’s just basic pragmatism Your contention is as per usual as patronising as it is insulting, well done I don't think I've clearly communicated what I meant to you. I'm saying you didn't address something you otherwise would object to there (but did later, maybe snarkily, hence the "tightroping") because of a well known and pretty ubiquitous systemic phenomena (noting I've also succumbed to the Asch effect). I was asking what you thought happened instead? What do you think happened? I mean you namechecked me after all. Me thinking your approach to political discourse is fucking stupid doesn’t mean I’m subsuming my own political beliefs Nope, still got em. How are you so bad at this? I’m further left than most on this planet and basically all you do is piss me off at every possible juncture, it’s almost impressive This is my understanding of why GH mentioned you / cited your response to Billyboy as an example of the Asch effect: Regardless of whether Billyboy already knew GH preferred they/them instead of he/him, Billyboy used he/him to refer to GH. You then responded to Billyboy, which means you had an opportunity to give Billyboy a heads up that GH actually doesn't identify as he/him (in other words, to kindly and tactfully correct Billyboy). And that opportunity existed even if you were justifiably criticizing GH's political beliefs or GH's approach to discussion. This is actually consistent with something Billyboy said a few hours ago: "Treating people normally means calling out all groups equally and not giving a pass, even if they are gay, non binary, Muslim, black, indigenous, or whatever." It's a bit ironic, because Billyboy might have been implying (based on what we talked about a few hours ago) that I was being too lenient with GH because I was supporting their gender identity in that moment, instead of criticizing them for a variety of things they deserve to be criticized for. GH and I have fought about several things in the past in this thread, and I absolutely believe that a non-binary person can be a jerk too. My position is: if someone's being an asshole, definitely call them out... but call them out using the proper pronouns. In the ideal situation, you would have addressed Billyboy's mislabeling of GH, and then Billyboy would have started using they/them. Maybe you honestly just didn't catch it, but if someone were to (hypothetically) willfully ignore correcting pronouns because it might cause friction or feel uncomfortable or even just because they were too pissed off to do so, that's when the Asch effect might become relevant. Also, that's kind of like the *second* level of true allyship. Obviously, I try to use a person's preferred pronouns all the time, to demonstrate that I'm an ally (which is the first, most fundamental level of allyship... and I admit I still mess up from time to time). If I can also take it upon myself to help others understand a person's preferred pronouns - putting myself out there publicly and not ignoring the wrong pronouns when other people say them - then that would be even more supportive than only focusing on my own statements. Maybe that's level two, or something. ::shrugs::
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of.
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On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again.
Well said.
I think everyone is doing an excellent job of displaying the spectrum of varying aspects (including the faux face) of allyship (or being an 'accomplice') and the reactions to social pressure to conform/remain silent/look elsewhere. So while I understand your point about Wombat (one of my preferred posters honestly), I think it's a valuable part of the process and helping us all learn more about ourselves and our situations.
I think everyone has at least slightly different ideas of what allyship with any community actually looks like in practice. Your approach, since you initially got understandably upset when I mentioned how we've all been instrumental in making places/scenes like this inhospitable (despite many efforts to the contrary) to various marginalized/oppressed/etc groups like women, minorities, and queer people (obviously overlapping groups), has been what I would hope we could all do better to emulate.
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On September 06 2026 07:59 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 07:02 dyhb wrote:On September 06 2026 06:13 Sermokala wrote:
Calling all tournaments male or female is actually more inclusive than not. Especially in esports you have the common sight of players under 18, which are refered to as boys and girls, while you have people over 18 to be called men and women.
Trying to make issues out of non issues by henpecking stupid things like that is a sigh of bad faith you see a lot in the anti trans community. See the two retired NBA players who think its funny to declare themselves women so they can declare themselves for the WNBA draft. And, currently, one is suing on that basis. I think "bad faith" in trans works on both sides now. What? The WNBA has never had a trans athlete; the assholes trying to make a joke of women's sports are the ones who are suing. There's a legal and philosophical problem with saying that anybody who says they're a woman are a woman. It invites abuse. Conservatives say for perverts and women's bathrooms, locker rooms, and (particularly for abuse) prisons. Liberals say for bad actors that are affecting to say they are women without truly believing it inside.
and they are suing beacuse Enes walked onto the court and got a stadium ban. I don't think the video shows this.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 06 2026 07:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 03:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:50 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 00:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I can't relate to being in your position right now, but please let me know what you think about this:
I feel like there are currently four* hypothetical categories of readers/posters here, especially since not everyone reads every page in this thread:
1. Those of us who had read that July conversation and became aware that you prefer they/them, and are trying to honor your preferred pronouns;
2. Those of us who had read that July conversation and became aware that you prefer they/them, but are not interested in honoring your preferred pronouns;
3. Those who were unaware of your preferred pronouns up until now, and from now on will make an effort to honor your preferred pronouns;
4. Those who were unaware of your preferred pronouns up until now, but still don't care and won't honor your preferred pronouns.
I've thankfully seen a lot more people in #1 than in #2, and I hope that those who are just now learning of your preferred pronouns choose #3 over #4.
*There are surely other occasional lurkers or future posters that will miss both July's and today's conversation, so they might incorrectly assume the wrong pronouns. And then we'll educate them again, and hopefully they'll choose new category #5 (being supportive) over new category #6 (not being supportive). It sounds true but incomplete? Part of the problem I predicted and we're seeing displayed is the hopeless parsing of whether someone is in 2/4 but masquerading as oblivious/accident prone 1/3's to be petty and poke. There was also the more recent reference. The " what you allow around you" part was particularly noticeable during this whole thing. It's been fascinating to see you, Wombat, and others trying to tightrope your convictions with the in-group dynamics. I know it isn't easy to overcome the Asch effect (as many, including myself, have failed many times before) and I appreciate when anyone is able to. Sure, that's definitely a fair concern. That must be exhausting to worry about, too. My understanding of the Asch effect is when someone knows a correct answer but changes their mind and picks a wrong answer because they notice that everyone else has picked that wrong answer. Conforming to the group, even when it's already known that the group is wrong. Like if someone asked me what 2+2 is, and I know the answer is 4, but I noticed that a whole bunch of my friends are saying that the answer is 7 for some reason so I join them in answering "7" instead of "4". Social pressures and whatnot. When you say that we're "trying to tightrope [our] convictions with the in-group dynamics", are you still referring to gender identity and preferred pronouns, or some other topic? (If I'm trying to apply the Asch effect to your preferred pronouns in this thread, then I feel like that's saying that I know you prefer they/them, but a whole bunch of other people are referring to you incorrectly, so I just give up on referring to you as they/them and I just repeat whatever incorrect labels other people are using for you?) Yeah, it (just misgendering in general) sorta came up at Queeraoke last night I recognized I'm enduring relatively lightwork so, but for the grace of God go I. Understandably so, you're thinking a bit too literally/mathematically. The Asch effect is why Wombat (who is ostensibly in group 1) read: On September 03 2026 09:29 Billyboy wrote:On September 03 2026 09:24 WombaT wrote:On September 03 2026 02:14 LightSpectra wrote:
I see you've chosen the laughingstock route. Don't get mad when people refuse to engage with you when you consistently meltdown when pressed too closely 🤷 Quelle fucking surprise GH alienates another potential ally and doesn’t understand why Who could have fucking thunk it? Because his actual intentions are to make himself seem important not gain political allies or the bs revolution he knows nothing about. If it was not only would he act different, but protests and not supporting and using the king capitalists manipulation tool wouldn’t be too inconvenient for him. He’s full of shit, it’s too bad some people believed him, but it’s not a bad thing to be trusting. And didn't address it. It's also part of why people have allowed JimmiC/Billyboy to say unhinged things about me for years without correcting them like you just did here. I’d somewhat disagree with that characterisation of me and the Arsch effect, indeed I’d say your talking out of your Arsch there Asch* What's your understanding of why? I haven’t, nor will I shift my positions to bend to the general public will, whatever that may be. I may accept some dilution because well, that’s the world we all live in, that’s just basic pragmatism Your contention is as per usual as patronising as it is insulting, well done I don't think I've clearly communicated what I meant to you. I'm saying you didn't address something you otherwise would object to there (but did later, maybe snarkily, hence the "tightroping") because of a well known and pretty ubiquitous systemic phenomena (noting I've also succumbed to the Asch effect). I was asking what you thought happened instead? What do you think happened? + Show Spoiler +I mean you namechecked me after all.
Me thinking your approach to political discourse is fucking stupid doesn’t mean I’m subsuming my own political beliefs
Nope, still got em.
How are you so bad at this? I’m further left than most on this planet and basically all you do is piss me off at every possible juncture, it’s almost impressive I literally just told you? You quoted it, but then didn't respond to it. Instead you did whatever that whatever that was?
Told me what?
Im open to advice but equally im not sure how that looks like
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On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 08:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 03:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:50 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:20 GreenHorizons wrote:[quote] It sounds true but incomplete? Part of the problem I predicted and we're seeing displayed is the hopeless parsing of whether someone is in 2/4 but masquerading as oblivious/accident prone 1/3's to be petty and poke. There was also the more recent reference. The " what you allow around you" part was particularly noticeable during this whole thing. It's been fascinating to see you, Wombat, and others trying to tightrope your convictions with the in-group dynamics. I know it isn't easy to overcome the Asch effect (as many, including myself, have failed many times before) and I appreciate when anyone is able to. Sure, that's definitely a fair concern. That must be exhausting to worry about, too. My understanding of the Asch effect is when someone knows a correct answer but changes their mind and picks a wrong answer because they notice that everyone else has picked that wrong answer. Conforming to the group, even when it's already known that the group is wrong. Like if someone asked me what 2+2 is, and I know the answer is 4, but I noticed that a whole bunch of my friends are saying that the answer is 7 for some reason so I join them in answering "7" instead of "4". Social pressures and whatnot. When you say that we're "trying to tightrope [our] convictions with the in-group dynamics", are you still referring to gender identity and preferred pronouns, or some other topic? (If I'm trying to apply the Asch effect to your preferred pronouns in this thread, then I feel like that's saying that I know you prefer they/them, but a whole bunch of other people are referring to you incorrectly, so I just give up on referring to you as they/them and I just repeat whatever incorrect labels other people are using for you?) Yeah, it (just misgendering in general) sorta came up at Queeraoke last night I recognized I'm enduring relatively lightwork so, but for the grace of God go I. Understandably so, you're thinking a bit too literally/mathematically. The Asch effect is why Wombat (who is ostensibly in group 1) read: On September 03 2026 09:29 Billyboy wrote:On September 03 2026 09:24 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
Quelle fucking surprise GH alienates another potential ally and doesn’t understand why
Who could have fucking thunk it? Because his actual intentions are to make himself seem important not gain political allies or the bs revolution he knows nothing about. If it was not only would he act different, but protests and not supporting and using the king capitalists manipulation tool wouldn’t be too inconvenient for him. He’s full of shit, it’s too bad some people believed him, but it’s not a bad thing to be trusting. And didn't address it. It's also part of why people have allowed JimmiC/Billyboy to say unhinged things about me for years without correcting them like you just did here. I’d somewhat disagree with that characterisation of me and the Arsch effect, indeed I’d say your talking out of your Arsch there Asch* What's your understanding of why? I haven’t, nor will I shift my positions to bend to the general public will, whatever that may be. I may accept some dilution because well, that’s the world we all live in, that’s just basic pragmatism Your contention is as per usual as patronising as it is insulting, well done I don't think I've clearly communicated what I meant to you. I'm saying you didn't address something you otherwise would object to there (but did later, maybe snarkily, hence the "tightroping") because of a well known and pretty ubiquitous systemic phenomena (noting I've also succumbed to the Asch effect). I was asking what you thought happened instead? What do you think happened? I mean you namechecked me after all. Me thinking your approach to political discourse is fucking stupid doesn’t mean I’m subsuming my own political beliefs Nope, still got em. How are you so bad at this? I’m further left than most on this planet and basically all you do is piss me off at every possible juncture, it’s almost impressive This is my understanding of why GH mentioned you / cited your response to Billyboy as an example of the Asch effect: Regardless of whether Billyboy already knew GH preferred they/them instead of he/him, Billyboy used he/him to refer to GH. You then responded to Billyboy, which means you had an opportunity to give Billyboy a heads up that GH actually doesn't identify as he/him (in other words, to kindly and tactfully correct Billyboy). And that opportunity existed even if you were justifiably criticizing GH's political beliefs or GH's approach to discussion. This is actually consistent with something Billyboy said a few hours ago: "Treating people normally means calling out all groups equally and not giving a pass, even if they are gay, non binary, Muslim, black, indigenous, or whatever." It's a bit ironic, because Billyboy might have been implying (based on what we talked about a few hours ago) that I was being too lenient with GH because I was supporting their gender identity in that moment, instead of criticizing them for a variety of things they deserve to be criticized for. GH and I have fought about several things in the past in this thread, and I absolutely believe that a non-binary person can be a jerk too. My position is: if someone's being an asshole, definitely call them out... but call them out using the proper pronouns. In the ideal situation, you would have addressed Billyboy's mislabeling of GH, and then Billyboy would have started using they/them. Maybe you honestly just didn't catch it, but if someone were to (hypothetically) willfully ignore correcting pronouns because it might cause friction or feel uncomfortable or even just because they were too pissed off to do so, that's when the Asch effect might become relevant. Also, that's kind of like the *second* level of true allyship. Obviously, I try to use a person's preferred pronouns all the time, to demonstrate that I'm an ally (which is the first, most fundamental level of allyship... and I admit I still mess up from time to time). If I can also take it upon myself to help others understand a person's preferred pronouns - putting myself out there publicly and not ignoring the wrong pronouns when other people say them - then that would be even more supportive than only focusing on my own statements. Maybe that's level two, or something. ::shrugs:: Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of.
That's what I just wrote in my second paragraph, isn't it? Respect pronouns while calling out shitty behavior, right? I'm not sure what I'm missing / where we're disagreeing.
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On September 06 2026 10:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 08:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 03:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:50 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Sure, that's definitely a fair concern. That must be exhausting to worry about, too.
My understanding of the Asch effect is when someone knows a correct answer but changes their mind and picks a wrong answer because they notice that everyone else has picked that wrong answer. Conforming to the group, even when it's already known that the group is wrong. Like if someone asked me what 2+2 is, and I know the answer is 4, but I noticed that a whole bunch of my friends are saying that the answer is 7 for some reason so I join them in answering "7" instead of "4". Social pressures and whatnot. When you say that we're "trying to tightrope [our] convictions with the in-group dynamics", are you still referring to gender identity and preferred pronouns, or some other topic? (If I'm trying to apply the Asch effect to your preferred pronouns in this thread, then I feel like that's saying that I know you prefer they/them, but a whole bunch of other people are referring to you incorrectly, so I just give up on referring to you as they/them and I just repeat whatever incorrect labels other people are using for you?) Yeah, it (just misgendering in general) sorta came up at Queeraoke last night I recognized I'm enduring relatively lightwork so, but for the grace of God go I. Understandably so, you're thinking a bit too literally/mathematically. The Asch effect is why Wombat (who is ostensibly in group 1) read: On September 03 2026 09:29 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Because his actual intentions are to make himself seem important not gain political allies or the bs revolution he knows nothing about. If it was not only would he act different, but protests and not supporting and using the king capitalists manipulation tool wouldn’t be too inconvenient for him.
He’s full of shit, it’s too bad some people believed him, but it’s not a bad thing to be trusting. And didn't address it. It's also part of why people have allowed JimmiC/Billyboy to say unhinged things about me for years without correcting them like you just did here. I’d somewhat disagree with that characterisation of me and the Arsch effect, indeed I’d say your talking out of your Arsch there Asch* What's your understanding of why? I haven’t, nor will I shift my positions to bend to the general public will, whatever that may be. I may accept some dilution because well, that’s the world we all live in, that’s just basic pragmatism Your contention is as per usual as patronising as it is insulting, well done I don't think I've clearly communicated what I meant to you. I'm saying you didn't address something you otherwise would object to there (but did later, maybe snarkily, hence the "tightroping") because of a well known and pretty ubiquitous systemic phenomena (noting I've also succumbed to the Asch effect). I was asking what you thought happened instead? What do you think happened? I mean you namechecked me after all. Me thinking your approach to political discourse is fucking stupid doesn’t mean I’m subsuming my own political beliefs Nope, still got em. How are you so bad at this? I’m further left than most on this planet and basically all you do is piss me off at every possible juncture, it’s almost impressive This is my understanding of why GH mentioned you / cited your response to Billyboy as an example of the Asch effect: Regardless of whether Billyboy already knew GH preferred they/them instead of he/him, Billyboy used he/him to refer to GH. You then responded to Billyboy, which means you had an opportunity to give Billyboy a heads up that GH actually doesn't identify as he/him (in other words, to kindly and tactfully correct Billyboy). And that opportunity existed even if you were justifiably criticizing GH's political beliefs or GH's approach to discussion. This is actually consistent with something Billyboy said a few hours ago: "Treating people normally means calling out all groups equally and not giving a pass, even if they are gay, non binary, Muslim, black, indigenous, or whatever." It's a bit ironic, because Billyboy might have been implying (based on what we talked about a few hours ago) that I was being too lenient with GH because I was supporting their gender identity in that moment, instead of criticizing them for a variety of things they deserve to be criticized for. GH and I have fought about several things in the past in this thread, and I absolutely believe that a non-binary person can be a jerk too. My position is: if someone's being an asshole, definitely call them out... but call them out using the proper pronouns. In the ideal situation, you would have addressed Billyboy's mislabeling of GH, and then Billyboy would have started using they/them. Maybe you honestly just didn't catch it, but if someone were to (hypothetically) willfully ignore correcting pronouns because it might cause friction or feel uncomfortable or even just because they were too pissed off to do so, that's when the Asch effect might become relevant. Also, that's kind of like the *second* level of true allyship. Obviously, I try to use a person's preferred pronouns all the time, to demonstrate that I'm an ally (which is the first, most fundamental level of allyship... and I admit I still mess up from time to time). If I can also take it upon myself to help others understand a person's preferred pronouns - putting myself out there publicly and not ignoring the wrong pronouns when other people say them - then that would be even more supportive than only focusing on my own statements. Maybe that's level two, or something. ::shrugs:: Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. That's what I just wrote in my second paragraph, isn't it? Respect pronouns while calling out shitty behavior, right? I'm not sure what I'm missing / where we're disagreeing.
Looks like a miss read on my behalf. Apologies.
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On September 06 2026 10:35 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 10:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 08:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 03:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:50 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, it (just misgendering in general) sorta came up at Queeraoke last night I recognized I'm enduring relatively lightwork so, but for the grace of God go I.
Understandably so, you're thinking a bit too literally/mathematically.
The Asch effect is why Wombat (who is ostensibly in group 1) read: [quote]
And didn't address it.
It's also part of why people have allowed JimmiC/Billyboy to say unhinged things about me for years without correcting them like you just did here. I’d somewhat disagree with that characterisation of me and the Arsch effect, indeed I’d say your talking out of your Arsch there Asch* What's your understanding of why? I haven’t, nor will I shift my positions to bend to the general public will, whatever that may be. I may accept some dilution because well, that’s the world we all live in, that’s just basic pragmatism Your contention is as per usual as patronising as it is insulting, well done I don't think I've clearly communicated what I meant to you. I'm saying you didn't address something you otherwise would object to there (but did later, maybe snarkily, hence the "tightroping") because of a well known and pretty ubiquitous systemic phenomena (noting I've also succumbed to the Asch effect). I was asking what you thought happened instead? What do you think happened? I mean you namechecked me after all. Me thinking your approach to political discourse is fucking stupid doesn’t mean I’m subsuming my own political beliefs Nope, still got em. How are you so bad at this? I’m further left than most on this planet and basically all you do is piss me off at every possible juncture, it’s almost impressive This is my understanding of why GH mentioned you / cited your response to Billyboy as an example of the Asch effect: Regardless of whether Billyboy already knew GH preferred they/them instead of he/him, Billyboy used he/him to refer to GH. You then responded to Billyboy, which means you had an opportunity to give Billyboy a heads up that GH actually doesn't identify as he/him (in other words, to kindly and tactfully correct Billyboy). And that opportunity existed even if you were justifiably criticizing GH's political beliefs or GH's approach to discussion. This is actually consistent with something Billyboy said a few hours ago: "Treating people normally means calling out all groups equally and not giving a pass, even if they are gay, non binary, Muslim, black, indigenous, or whatever." It's a bit ironic, because Billyboy might have been implying (based on what we talked about a few hours ago) that I was being too lenient with GH because I was supporting their gender identity in that moment, instead of criticizing them for a variety of things they deserve to be criticized for. GH and I have fought about several things in the past in this thread, and I absolutely believe that a non-binary person can be a jerk too. My position is: if someone's being an asshole, definitely call them out... but call them out using the proper pronouns. In the ideal situation, you would have addressed Billyboy's mislabeling of GH, and then Billyboy would have started using they/them. Maybe you honestly just didn't catch it, but if someone were to (hypothetically) willfully ignore correcting pronouns because it might cause friction or feel uncomfortable or even just because they were too pissed off to do so, that's when the Asch effect might become relevant. Also, that's kind of like the *second* level of true allyship. Obviously, I try to use a person's preferred pronouns all the time, to demonstrate that I'm an ally (which is the first, most fundamental level of allyship... and I admit I still mess up from time to time). If I can also take it upon myself to help others understand a person's preferred pronouns - putting myself out there publicly and not ignoring the wrong pronouns when other people say them - then that would be even more supportive than only focusing on my own statements. Maybe that's level two, or something. ::shrugs:: Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. That's what I just wrote in my second paragraph, isn't it? Respect pronouns while calling out shitty behavior, right? I'm not sure what I'm missing / where we're disagreeing. Looks like a miss read on my behalf. Apologies.
All good
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On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself.
On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less.
Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you.
On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of.
This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested.
It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything!
Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level.
I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck?
Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected
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On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested.
Keep on with the performative virtue signalling, I bet you are impressing lots! Way to be! 👍😃
Edit: let’s not forget this conversation started with an attack on Kwark assuming he was doing something on purpose which he was not. Not some respectful ask. You’re a dudkin fraud mate.
On September 04 2026 09:31 Fleetfeet wrote:I don't get the joke tbh. It feels like an exceptionally low bar to clear (respecting pronouns). I assume there's a bigger GH vs Kwark battle going on in your head that makes "Hey yeah I fucked up, I've mentally held GH as 'he/him' in my head for 8 years, flipping that to they/them is gonna take a minute. My bad." too much of a concession, but like... why?
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On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine. Ultimately the point GH is/was making with regard to this space not being as welcoming to trans folk as we think it is, and I think that point even though it came from GH stands as true without being connected to GH personally
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again.
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This one isn't hard, use they/them/GH. GH having it in their signature would be helpful but not necessary.
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At least GH is the center of attention, again, so all is good.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker. I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine. Ultimately the point GH is/was making with regard to this space not being as welcoming to trans folk as we think it is, and I think that point even though it came from GH stands as true without being connected to GH personally@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again.
Probably true, although I wouldn’t characterise it as hostile either.
There’s a tendency to want to discuss such things on an intellectual/debate level given the purpose and nature of this space, which is fine in the abstract, but obviously if one is the subject, I can understand how that may be rather alienating.
I don’t know how one can fully reconcile that as unlike other identities it’s not yet a settled issue and there’s a lot of churn there.
Whereas being gay basically isn’t a political issue anymore and is an effectively settled topic.
Even posters (including me) who’ve generally shown very permissive and accepting views to our trans brothers and sisters may still have a view on a particular topic that might be hurtful or alienating. Which kinda sucks, but can be difficult to navigate around
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On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker. I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine. Ultimately the point GH is/was making with regard to this space not being as welcoming to trans folk as we think it is, and I think that point even though it came from GH stands as true without being connected to GH personally @billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again.
I didn’t know GHs specific so I used GH. There is nothing wrong with that. People like you who are only about the performance of being oh so progressive. If you read my shit, which clearly you have you would know I’m an actual ally , not one obsessed with virtue signaling the pronouns. If you were an actual person who cared about making things better you wouldn’t be calling out things far more important. It’s about you making you feel important.
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