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On September 06 2026 15:10 EnDeR_ wrote:
This one isn't hard, use they/them/GH. GH having it in their signature would be helpful but not necessary.
Yep.
My point was if GH doesn’t , performative white knights should not attack those who make mistakes, to make themselves feel important. Not only could people not know, but many of the others have spent over a decade using one, switching habits is not a 100% first try thing.
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You guys do realize that you are on a forum whiteout any genders being assigned to anyone?
These last pages are just embarassing.
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I agree, even being a large part of it. The purity testing performative bullshit is one of the big things slowing down actual progress.
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On September 07 2026 01:24 Velr wrote:
You guys do realize that you are on a forum whiteout any genders being assigned to anyone?
These last pages are just embarassing.
The embarrassing part is that we're having an argument over pronouns for someone that actively sabotages pro-trans rights Democrats by comparing them to Adolf Hitler.
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On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:15 Billyboy wrote:
What do you mean by joining? All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected + Show Spoiler +
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine.
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again.
Yeah, that really is the important bit. Also just how easy it is not to realize when we're doing it. There's an element of "how could we do better?" and how the reflexively defensive posture to the notion is not so much a personal failure as a larger sociological phenomena we have the opportunity to interrupt here. There's also something about the obsession of turning every point I raise into a invitation to attack me instead of the arguments.
If I wanted the attention/personal engagement/to be about me (like some people have deluded themselves to believe) I could bicker with people like Billyboy endlessly like some do/did with oBlade types. That I don't, is something we should all be thankful for. Especially considering how badly so many people wanted/asked for it to stop and clearly only one of us was capable of that.
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On September 07 2026 02:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
All I mean by that is that you just called GH by their preferred pronoun, as opposed to refusing to do so. Which is something I never did. I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected + Show Spoiler +
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine.
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again. Yeah, that really is the important bit. Also just how easy it is not to realize when we're doing it. There's an element of "how could we do better?" and how the reflexively defensive posture to the notion is not so much a personal failure as a larger sociological phenomena we have the opportunity to interrupt here. There's also something about the obsession of turning every point I raise into a invitation to attack me instead of the arguments. If I wanted the attention/personal engagement/to be about me (like some people have deluded themselves to believe) I could bicker with people like Billyboy endlessly like some do/did with oBlade types. That I don't, is something we should all be thankful for. Especially considering how badly so many people wanted/asked for it to stop and clearly only one of us was capable of that.
Eh, it's a bit trickier than that.
I think of Scarlett as a she, and would address her as such, because I never lived through her pronoun change. She was always Scarlett, she/her since I heard of her.
My cousin transitioned fairly recently and I still struggle to think of her as a she. Sometimes I refer to her as him, because I'm recounting a memory of a time that she was still a little boy, in my mind. There's cognitive dissonance there that is not easily overcome. And that is with actual reminder of her being a woman, because she doesn't look anything like the little boy in my memories.
You have no cues, give no reminders and get snarky if someone doesn't remember to call you them/they. They have no mind's eye image of you, and no visual cue to remind them of your changed identity. I think it's less about being queer-friendly and more about it being genuinely hard to remember someone on the internet's pronouns even if they were present and paying attention to the post in which you said you preferred they/them now. Your snark in pointing out what was probably just an honest mistake really doesn't help, and any follow-up doesn't mean hostility to gender-queer people, but should really just be interpreted as hostility to GH, the person. That's not to say some third party reads the exchange and doesn't feel threatened, but honestly, having you as their advocate is probably not a great position to be in.
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On September 07 2026 03:01 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 02:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Which is something I never did.
I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected + Show Spoiler +
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine.
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again. Yeah, that really is the important bit. Also just how easy it is not to realize when we're doing it. There's an element of "how could we do better?" and how the reflexively defensive posture to the notion is not so much a personal failure as a larger sociological phenomena we have the opportunity to interrupt here. There's also something about the obsession of turning every point I raise into a invitation to attack me instead of the arguments. If I wanted the attention/personal engagement/to be about me (like some people have deluded themselves to believe) I could bicker with people like Billyboy endlessly like some do/did with oBlade types. That I don't, is something we should all be thankful for. Especially considering how badly so many people wanted/asked for it to stop and clearly only one of us was capable of that. + Show Spoiler +Eh, it's a bit trickier than that.
I think of Scarlett as a she, and would address her as such, because I never lived through her pronoun change. She was always Scarlett, she/her since I heard of her.
My cousin transitioned fairly recently and I still struggle to think of her as a she. Sometimes I refer to her as him, because I'm recounting a memory of a time that she was still a little boy, in my mind. There's cognitive dissonance there that is not easily overcome. And that is with actual reminder of her being a woman, because she doesn't look anything like the little boy in my memories.
You have no cues, give no reminders and get snarky if someone doesn't remember to call you them/they. They have no mind's eye image of you, and no visual cue to remind them of your changed identity. I think it's less about being queer-friendly and more about it being genuinely hard to remember someone on the internet's pronouns even if they were present and paying attention to the post in which you said you preferred they/them now. Your snark in pointing out what was probably just an honest mistake really doesn't help, + Show Spoiler +and any follow-up doesn't mean hostility to gender-queer people, but should really just be interpreted as hostility to GH, the person. That's not to say some third party reads the exchange and doesn't feel threatened, but honestly, having you as their advocate is probably not a great position to be in. I'd dispute that description generally but... What if I had the space for my snark (real or perceived) to be reciprocal hostility to the poster/s' rhetoric/argument/politics/treatment of me/etc?
I don't really even know specifically what examples you're talking about. I don't think I've made a big deal about myself either. I told DPB I didn't even want to make a thing about it in the first place for exactly the reasons (and more) we've seen play out.
As you and others point out though, it should be relatively easy for us all to just consider practicing a way of communicating where we defaulted to not assuming gender and/or using gendered pronouns. I'm sure we could all use the practice, because as you also point out, most of us probably have people in our lives outside of here where this comes up and we'd like to do better (regardless of how many times they assure us that it's okay).
Or maybe everyone thinks that's a stupid idea? Or maybe there's some division and nuance in there that needs to be hashed out to arrive at a reasonable consensus? Or maybe....
Point being that we could do that instead of getting defensive and fixating on pwning each other and clinging to grudges like a cliff edge.
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On September 07 2026 03:01 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 02:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Which is something I never did.
I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected + Show Spoiler +
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine.
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again. Yeah, that really is the important bit. Also just how easy it is not to realize when we're doing it. There's an element of "how could we do better?" and how the reflexively defensive posture to the notion is not so much a personal failure as a larger sociological phenomena we have the opportunity to interrupt here. There's also something about the obsession of turning every point I raise into a invitation to attack me instead of the arguments. If I wanted the attention/personal engagement/to be about me (like some people have deluded themselves to believe) I could bicker with people like Billyboy endlessly like some do/did with oBlade types. That I don't, is something we should all be thankful for. Especially considering how badly so many people wanted/asked for it to stop and clearly only one of us was capable of that. Eh, it's a bit trickier than that. I think of Scarlett as a she, and would address her as such, because I never lived through her pronoun change. She was always Scarlett, she/her since I heard of her. My cousin transitioned fairly recently and I still struggle to think of her as a she. Sometimes I refer to her as him, because I'm recounting a memory of a time that she was still a little boy, in my mind. There's cognitive dissonance there that is not easily overcome. And that is with actual reminder of her being a woman, because she doesn't look anything like the little boy in my memories.You have no cues, give no reminders and get snarky if someone doesn't remember to call you them/they. They have no mind's eye image of you, and no visual cue to remind them of your changed identity. I think it's less about being queer-friendly and more about it being genuinely hard to remember someone on the internet's pronouns even if they were present and paying attention to the post in which you said you preferred they/them now. Your snark in pointing out what was probably just an honest mistake really doesn't help, and any follow-up doesn't mean hostility to gender-queer people, but should really just be interpreted as hostility to GH, the person. That's not to say some third party reads the exchange and doesn't feel threatened, but honestly, having you as their advocate is probably not a great position to be in.
I agree / can relate to this discomfort, it's extremely hard to get your brain to work around that, and I (mostly) expect that's what people here have done. The feminists echoing in my brain are trying to point out that it's a bit insidious that we all default to male for pretty much everyone here (and in a lot of our gaming), but uh... I'm pretty sure statistics would back that up as pretty probably the case. That's kind of it's own problem, and something I can't really tackle just yet.
I also agree that it can/could have been brought up more gently, but am ultimately neither here nor there on that. You can bring it up gently and be ignored, or bring it up loudly and be yelled at. Either way it's about what the person does with the information - Kwark respected pronouns in a writeup on why he doesn't believe GH's personal motivations regarding pronouns, which follows the separation between it being a pronouns/allyship issue and a GH issue. If your response to being told, either gently or loudly, is to yell at everyone else that it's their fault and problem, then I don't know that it mattered how the information was delivered.
I will concede that I think it's no coincidence that it's two big GH haters as recent 'offenders', though. That isn't lost on me.
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Convince me that the meme is wrong.
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On September 07 2026 03:01 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 02:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 06 2026 01:46 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Which is something I never did.
I also think as long as GH, chooses to not put it out there via signature, you or anyone else that "corrects" someone who is not using GH's preferred is hurting not helping. These are the types of activities that create enemies not allies. Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected + Show Spoiler +
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine.
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again. Yeah, that really is the important bit. Also just how easy it is not to realize when we're doing it. There's an element of "how could we do better?" and how the reflexively defensive posture to the notion is not so much a personal failure as a larger sociological phenomena we have the opportunity to interrupt here. There's also something about the obsession of turning every point I raise into a invitation to attack me instead of the arguments. If I wanted the attention/personal engagement/to be about me (like some people have deluded themselves to believe) I could bicker with people like Billyboy endlessly like some do/did with oBlade types. That I don't, is something we should all be thankful for. Especially considering how badly so many people wanted/asked for it to stop and clearly only one of us was capable of that. Eh, it's a bit trickier than that. I think of Scarlett as a she, and would address her as such, because I never lived through her pronoun change. She was always Scarlett, she/her since I heard of her. My cousin transitioned fairly recently and I still struggle to think of her as a she. Sometimes I refer to her as him, because I'm recounting a memory of a time that she was still a little boy, in my mind. There's cognitive dissonance there that is not easily overcome. And that is with actual reminder of her being a woman, because she doesn't look anything like the little boy in my memories. You have no cues, give no reminders and get snarky if someone doesn't remember to call you them/they. They have no mind's eye image of you, and no visual cue to remind them of your changed identity. I think it's less about being queer-friendly and more about it being genuinely hard to remember someone on the internet's pronouns even if they were present and paying attention to the post in which you said you preferred they/them now. Your snark in pointing out what was probably just an honest mistake really doesn't help, and any follow-up doesn't mean hostility to gender-queer people, but should really just be interpreted as hostility to GH, the person. That's not to say some third party reads the exchange and doesn't feel threatened, but honestly, having you as their advocate is probably not a great position to be in.
Well said.
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Norway28914 Posts
On September 07 2026 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 03:01 Acrofales wrote:On September 07 2026 02:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2026 14:30 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 13:22 WombaT wrote:On September 06 2026 12:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 08:12 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 07:48 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:On September 06 2026 01:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Fleetfeet said to you "Speaking of ally, GH has previously mentioned that their pronouns are "they", presumably they/them/themselves/their etc. Not calling you out because I think you're intentionally being a shitter, just letting you know in case you missed it." I think Fleetfeet was just giving you a heads up as gently as possible, and even proactively offering that you surely weren't being malicious. Why do you think that hurts (not helps) or creates enemies (not allies)? Why would being informed of something like that - especially in such a tactful manner - be taken negatively instead of neutrally or positively? LS is giving you a good set of reasons why. And given GHs history what do you think GHs intentions are? Why won’t GH put it in his sig, instead of of GHs sweet own the lib current one? What actually matters to GH. Since you don’t seem shy on giving advice let me give you some, because it is extremely painful to watch your continuous interactions with GH, it feels like watching an emotionally abusive relationship. GHs questions for you are are never legitimate, GH does not care about what you think and never has. It will either be to set you you up for whatever burn he wants to land or as a disingenuous lead to bring you to his conclusion. And at some point in the conversation you realize this and get upset. Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch. Ah, so the answer to my pondering is that I should have just assumed you were being a shitter from square one. Got it. See : respecting pronouns isn't respecting GH, yet you choose not to respect pronouns because you think that means you're disrespecting GH instead of just outing yourself as a shitter. Ironic you're calling anyone else a victim of GH when you've been ignored by them for years and can't get over it/yourself to let it ride, while us sane and balanced people who don't lack the willpower (as evidenced by you request-perming yourself but that still not being enough to keep you away) to choose to post or not post happily just let GH be wrong about the stuff they're wrong about (Such as, currently, trying to pressure an already-irate Wombat into conceding anything). Please perm yourself again. Your reading is fucking bad and understanding is less, nice little tantrum. Go find after your post where I used the wrong pronouns. You likely won’t, though I could have made a mistake, I’ve stated multiple times that I am no using he him with GH out of respect for others who could genuinely care. You are trying so hard to be so accepting that you are kicking people out that could and likely are actual allies. You’re the worst kind of white knight. Grow up. I’m not pressuring wombat into anything. Wombat is his own person who spent years and years defending GH until GH attacked him into what is now. Enjoy being the next person to stand up for GH only to have GH shut on you when you are the only one left willing to talk to GH. Seriously go fuck yourself. On September 06 2026 02:18 Billyboy wrote:
Save yourself the pain and the rest of the bad feels and just don’t interact with GH, or at the very least ask a question yourself and don’t move on to Gags next step until he answers you directly. Care about yourself and don’t let GH keep making you a victim, it sucks to watch.
Somethingsomething irony somethingsomething reading is fucking bad and understanding is less. Bonus points - I was referring to GH making a mistake in pressuring Wombat to concede something, not you. On September 06 2026 08:21 Billyboy wrote:
Nope you missed it completely. Respect the pronouns call GH out for all GHs shitty behaviour, regardless of what group Gh claims to be a part of, or is a part of. This is correct, but I don't know that you're the person for the job. You're emotionally invested. It is definitely a mistake to try to get me concede anything! Equally I do think it’s important to respect GH’s chosen pronouns, and ultimately despite being quite a close community we don’t really know one another at an intimate level. I don’t think anyone can really make a claim that somebody isn’t ’legitimately’ x identity or whatever. Even if they aren’t why give a fuck? Thanks for being a voice for decency on this. Myself and GH may bat heads on the regular but I still hold them in high regard and their wishes in terms of how they wish to be addressed should be respected + Show Spoiler +
Yeah I don't see harm in you trying to set boundaries in conversation w GH and have no problems (obviously) with being loud and angry when it feels like that's what is needed to be heard. I don't take it as you hating GH or being unable to hear them in general - you and I seem similar in that regard. Some days it's right to sit and listen, some days it's right to yell at someone for being a fucker.
I'm glad most people get/got to the point where they can separate the "pronouns" issue from the "GH" issue - Kwark notably respected pronouns in his explanation of why he thinks GH is a larping revolutionary socialist, and I think that's fine.
@billyboy I've made my point. You fucked up pronouns before you knew, were gently corrected, then later claimed to have never been told and that everyone who cares should have pronouns in their sig to make your life easier. And then you fucked up pronouns again. At what point do you think it's correct to assume you're being a shitter on purpose? Now? Maybe after another few tries? Personally, I think it's when you double down and yell at me to point out to you where you fucked up the pronouns (which I did) and then yell at me more instead of recognizing that you fucked up pronouns again. Yeah, that really is the important bit. Also just how easy it is not to realize when we're doing it. There's an element of "how could we do better?" and how the reflexively defensive posture to the notion is not so much a personal failure as a larger sociological phenomena we have the opportunity to interrupt here. There's also something about the obsession of turning every point I raise into a invitation to attack me instead of the arguments. If I wanted the attention/personal engagement/to be about me (like some people have deluded themselves to believe) I could bicker with people like Billyboy endlessly like some do/did with oBlade types. That I don't, is something we should all be thankful for. Especially considering how badly so many people wanted/asked for it to stop and clearly only one of us was capable of that. + Show Spoiler +Eh, it's a bit trickier than that.
I think of Scarlett as a she, and would address her as such, because I never lived through her pronoun change. She was always Scarlett, she/her since I heard of her.
My cousin transitioned fairly recently and I still struggle to think of her as a she. Sometimes I refer to her as him, because I'm recounting a memory of a time that she was still a little boy, in my mind. There's cognitive dissonance there that is not easily overcome. And that is with actual reminder of her being a woman, because she doesn't look anything like the little boy in my memories.
You have no cues, give no reminders and get snarky if someone doesn't remember to call you them/they. They have no mind's eye image of you, and no visual cue to remind them of your changed identity. I think it's less about being queer-friendly and more about it being genuinely hard to remember someone on the internet's pronouns even if they were present and paying attention to the post in which you said you preferred they/them now. Your snark in pointing out what was probably just an honest mistake really doesn't help, + Show Spoiler +and any follow-up doesn't mean hostility to gender-queer people, but should really just be interpreted as hostility to GH, the person. That's not to say some third party reads the exchange and doesn't feel threatened, but honestly, having you as their advocate is probably not a great position to be in. As you and others point out though, it should be relatively easy for us all to just consider practicing a way of communicating where we defaulted to not assuming gender and/or using gendered pronouns. I'm sure we could all use the practice, because as you also point out, most of us probably have people in our lives outside of here where this comes up and we'd like to do better (regardless of how many times they assure us that it's okay). Or maybe everyone thinks that's a stupid idea? Or maybe there's some division and nuance in there that needs to be hashed out to arrive at a reasonable consensus? Or maybe....
See, I've been thinking a bit about this lately and it's like, I'm not sure I want that?
I work in a high school with 1250 people aged 16-19. I relate to more than 100 different people on a daily basis. In more than 99% of those cases, the gender I naturally assume - even if I have no prior knowledge of the person I'm interacting with - corresponds rather perfectly with the gender people express and identify as.
Now, to be clear - I'm a very strong proponent of 'equal rights and opportunities for men and women' and I'm entirely on board with most trans acceptance messaging, I participate in pride parades, etc etc - I'm your typical 'votes for the socialist left party in every election he's ever voted' for type of person. But I think gendered pronouns have a function. I think gender is, for most people, a rather important part of their identity - and not just inwardly. Again - working in a high school - I, for example, grade tests/papers/exams anonymously. These are papers written on a computer, handed in through a program which makes me not know who has written what.
When I grade those tests/papers/exams, even though they are anonymous, my mind still tends towards trying to figure out which student wrote this particular answer, and, while I'm sometimes surprised at the end when I'm done grading and all the names reveal themselves, like 'oh that was Ane not Maia', or 'wow good job Lian I didn't know you had that in you', I've literally never gotten the gender wrong. Grading anonymous tests/essays/exams where the gender of the writer is never expressed by the writer, I've never, not once, thought 'this is written by a girl' and been wrong, and I've never, not once, thought 'this is written by a boy' and been wrong - and this isn't because of handwriting. The differences in expression go way beyond appearances or hobbies, and for a large majority of people, girls/women behave in a significantly different manner from boys/men.
I just.. don't idealize this sort of, non-gendered society. I idealize a society where men and women have the same opportunities for living good lives - and also where men are free to be feminine and women are free to be masculine and where all sorts of gender expressions are accepted - but I don't picture a non-gendered society as an ideal or the best way to get there. The people who actually don't identify as either gender is in my experience a really miniscule number (I've had a fair trans students now, but only one who identified as genderfluid, and she didn't care about the pronouns at all) - not at all big enough of a group for me to think that we should change everything around for this reason.
Not to reiterate either the sports or the bathroom debates, but it makes perfect sense to me that these should be gender split. I'm happy that any woman who is strong enough and who wants the job can become a fire fighter and I'm happy to call it fire fighter instead of fireman for that reason, but I also don't think it's a societal problem that there's a 95-5 split. (Just for clarity, similar ratios can be an issue in other professions where you're expected to interact more with people).
And this is sort of my way of asking - because I again think that elements of the trans debate is actually a sort of placeholder-debate - who here actually wants a non-gendered society? I think mostly everyone is in agreement, because most of us aren't total cunts, that men and women are equally valuable and should have the same opportunities for happiness etc, but I think there's probably pretty wide disagreement in a) to what degree the differences between the sexes are biological or cultural in nature and b) to what degree a more or less gendered society is an ideal and c) to what degree 'society' should try to actively 'fix' statistical differences in how men and women 'perform' in society.
All those three points are interesting avenues for discussion to me. Overall, I also think this might be an area where I've become slightly more conservative with age, because I'm probably more accepting of biological explanations for certain areas of how men and women differ than what I used to be (and I also believe that the more biological the explanation is, the less cause is there in trying to change it) - not that this should be extrapolated too far; I also believe there's much more spread within genders/sexes than between them.
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Norway28914 Posts
Thinking about it, and I just happened to start reading an article about a handicapped person complaining about Copenhagen, I think there's an element here: The frequency of the group asking for 'universal design' and how intrusive is universal design in this particular area?
Like, in Norway, we add braille for elevator buttons. People who need them is probably less than 1 in 600, but obviously, the cost is next to nothing, so why not. But we're not adding auditory cues with every 'possibly useful information for a blind person'-sign, because this would be costly and intrusive to the non-blind'.
We make buildings wheelchair accessible, but when there were discussions around creating a gondola lift to make one of the more popular hiking destinations in the city handi accessible, I was one of many who protested (I mean, just online, just saying I disagreed with it), because I thought protecting nature was more important. There are countless examples in this vein and my answer to them will generally be informed by a combination of 'how many people are negatively affected by our lack of universal design, how negatively affected are those people' and 'what will the cost of universal design be'. And I sort of feel like there's a parallel here - just because some people are gender fluid doesn't mean I want all of society to be, because most people really aren't.
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Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection.
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On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection.
Everyone better prepare for the end times, because I agree with this completely.
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On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection.
In what ways are women not benefiting from sports being split by gender? Wasn’t getting women’s professional sports a big deal? It was to all the women I know.
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You don't agree with it enough to support pro-trans Democrats regrettably. You just repost ads from transphobic Republicans when Democrats don't pass your purity tests. Don't use my posts for your performative activism.
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On September 07 2026 06:16 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection. In what ways are women not benefiting from sports being split by gender? Wasn’t getting women’s professional sports a big deal? It was to all the women I know.
Not when trans women are gatekept out of them for irrational and inconsistent cries of "biology".
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On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection.
Ha, I was thinking the same. Well said, LS.
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On September 07 2026 06:21 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 06:16 Billyboy wrote:On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection. In what ways are women not benefiting from sports being split by gender? Wasn’t getting women’s professional sports a big deal? It was to all the women I know. Not when trans women are gatekept out of them for irrational and inconsistent cries of "biology".
So if it’s not perfect than it’s shit, you’re sounding like some one else around here. All people of all genders are allowed in “men’s” sports.
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On September 07 2026 06:22 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2026 06:21 LightSpectra wrote:On September 07 2026 06:16 Billyboy wrote:On September 07 2026 06:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Cisgender men benefit the most from a society that enforces a binary gender dichotomy in visible (e.g. separated bathrooms and sports) and invisible ways (e.g. prejudicial stereotypes). The fact that it seems to be working perfectly fine for you and you don't see any reason to change it, whereas women and trans people of every gender are constantly trying to vocalize the innumerable ways society has made life unnecessarily harder for them, should be a cause for introspection. In what ways are women not benefiting from sports being split by gender? Wasn’t getting women’s professional sports a big deal? It was to all the women I know. Not when trans women are gatekept out of them for irrational and inconsistent cries of "biology". So if it’s not perfect than it’s shit, you’re sounding like some one else around here. All people of all genders are allowed in “men’s” sports.
Trans women are women and should compete in women's sports. Gatekeeping based off arbitrary biological factors hurts cis and trans women alike. I've made this abundantly clear over the dozens of posts I made about the subject. And the point here is that because people insist on an arbitrarily gendered society, these conflicts are inevitable.
If you want to say you don't care, then fine. But don't moralize "it works fine for me and I don't care about those for whom it doesn't work" into "therefore it's a good system".
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EPT![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/nz8m2g9l8xnh1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5650246943ff5afe07c0b417dd7d7a283649148d)
