EPTIt is amazing how utterly unsurprising this is.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5719
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Simberto
Germany11835 Posts
It is amazing how utterly unsurprising this is. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22365 Posts
On May 11 2026 23:02 Silvanel wrote: Wonder if Trump would let him ride along when he heads to Russia in 2 years...In a not-so-surprising move, a former Polish justice minister accused of stealing millions and spying on political opponents ends up in the US: https://www.politico.eu/article/ex-poland-justice-minister-ziobro-flees-us-hungary-orban-magyar-tusk-trump/ He was previously sheltering in Hungary, but after Orban lost the elections, he was at risk of being extradited. And apparently Trump himself made the decision to grant him entry. Let's see how this progresses, but I doubt there will be some serious drama over it, as he is not worth tearing down relations with the US. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23950 Posts
On May 11 2026 06:31 Squirrel wrote: This is true, but I think a lot of folks sorta conflate "Democratic Party" with "Democratic Voter"(Not saying that you are). The party itself is right wing, and has been for my entire life, and this can be seen most easily and obviously with how they attack the left with far more viciousness and fury than the right, despite the right being...ya know. The right. Voters I think are far more reachable individually. I think many liberal voters are a lot closer to leaning to the left than folks would think. Even conservative voters generally support socialist policies if you phrase it in a way that doesn't set off the 'Socialist' alarms in their heads. It's why I think it's still worth discussing things with folks, left or right, if they're willing to actually have a discussion and not just shout in your direction. I think most voters are just incredibly un/misinformed in general though lmao. Lots of people just vote along party lines, with who they heard get talked about the most, and can't even tell you anything about their candidate's policy aside from the vague campaign 'promises' Kinda a tangent This is true. Of course this also means those potentially not right-wing voters are voting for right-wing parties. So the (popular around here) idea that the Democrat party is just "faithfully representing" a right-wing country isn't entirely fictional. As you point out though, it's not because of rigorous political and sociological analysis, it's mostly similar to how people pick a favorite sports team. Then that is combined with 2 party FPTP and both parties have a mutual self-interest in preventing anything better from emerging. This is part of why you see Democrats embrace the strategy of promoting the most threatening opponents possible instead of the least bad Republicans (for when they inevitably lose to them). I believe you're right. People ultimately want socialism (particularly when you don't call it that). Unfortunately, they've been effectively propagandized to be repulsed by their own best interests by capitalists, their lackeys, and their useful idiots. Obligatory reminder that even Republicans want a far more equitable wealth distribution than they believe we currently have. Meanwhile the actual distribution is actually way worse than even Republicans approve of/think we have. (also it's worse now). | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1384 Posts
On May 12 2026 00:16 Gorsameth wrote: Wonder if Trump would let him ride along when he heads to Russia in 2 years... This is, unfortunately, wishful thinking. USA won't allow itself to take the PR hit of Trump defecting to Russia, I'm not a big believer in deep state or similar shit, but in the extremely unlikely scenario where Trump doesn't run or runs and loses elections, concedes and does a peaceful transfer of power he's either going to have to be arrested as he's leaving the inauguration or suffer from a mysterious illness before he can activate his "retirement plan". | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2576 Posts
On May 12 2026 00:45 Jankisa wrote: This is, unfortunately, wishful thinking. USA won't allow itself to take the PR hit of Trump defecting to Russia, I'm not a big believer in deep state or similar shit, but in the extremely unlikely scenario where Trump doesn't run or runs and loses elections, concedes and does a peaceful transfer of power he's either going to have to be arrested as he's leaving the inauguration or suffer from a mysterious illness before he can activate his "retirement plan". Nothing's impossible, but given the fact that Trump was selling nuclear secrets out of the shitter at Mar-a-Lago for at least months and national security did jack squat to stop him, that seems like an overestimation of their abilities. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23950 Posts
On May 11 2026 21:43 Jankisa wrote: There is nothing that [either party's] supporters and defenders can't excuse and justify. Absolutely nothing, this thread is a wonderful example of that. Even if they can throw out a cursory "well, I think [politician/party] is a piece of shit and or [they] might have done this better" that sentence will never be the last one. It will inevitably come with "but [the other party]", it simply doesn't matter what [they] and [their] regimes do, they will get their marching orders, they will spin their propaganda up and they will justify it by explaining how all of it is worth it because [the other party is] worse + Show Spoiler + and they let too many brown people in + Show Spoiler + If it's about Iran instead, it will be "do you want them to nuke everyone", that's the "gotcha", they are stupid or delusional enough that they actually believe that this is what it's about and they will regurgitate it and use it to justify it all. "Should he have not negotiated then, do you want war?". See, it's super simple as long as you are willing to check out your brain before you post. When confronted by every prediction and confident statement they regurgitated before being wrong, they'll just wait and try to make the thread about Hitler. And round and round we go. Watching people from both party's camps try to rationalize aiding and abetting what they themselves identified as genocide solidified this. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2576 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia1384 Posts
On May 12 2026 01:05 GreenHorizons wrote: Watching people from both party's camps try to rationalize aiding and abetting what they themselves identified as genocide solidified this. GH, we went over this so many times, I kindly request that you stop with your tired and annoying spiel, at least on me. You might have convinced yourself that you are above party politics, you see yourself as too enlightened because you are the only one with the "bird eye view of history" or whatever smug shit you mutter to yourself, but I really don't need you to mock and gawk at me with your unhealthy obsession with spamming false equivalence in order to play defense for fascism. On May 12 2026 00:54 LightSpectra wrote: Nothing's impossible, but given the fact that Trump was selling nuclear secrets out of the shitter at Mar-a-Lago for at least months and national security did jack squat to stop him, that seems like an overestimation of their abilities. I don't mean the intelligence apparatus, I mean the "deep state" layer that might or might not exist. I'd bet there is enough of incredibly powerful elites who's fortunes and designs for the world rely on USA maintaining it's status of a serious super power that there is something to it. For them, having this orange dementia patient "Truthing" from Kremlin might be annoying enough to shut it down before it happens. It's not like it's going to be relevant, again, this whole scenario relies on him conceding the elections, even if he's not the one running and little Marco or couchfucker VP are on the docket and they lose, there is no way that Trump would let his cult not turn that into a worse version of Jan 6th and all that transpired before it, his freedom and fortune would depend on it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23950 Posts
On May 12 2026 01:16 LightSpectra wrote: Seeing Kamala Harris call for a ceasefire and you still compared her to Adolf Hitler solidified my zero respect for tankies. Pretty sure you're willfully misinterpreting me responding to someone that suggested the comparison, but I guess I should have left in the When confronted [about] being wrong/[oblivious], they'll just wait and try to make the thread about Hitler. And round and round we go. part. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2576 Posts
If you're talking about assassins or whatever that right-wing billionaires could potentially hire, I mean I guess that's within the realm of possibility, but I'm not really seeing any pressing reason why they'd want to off a retired Trump? He already can barely string a coherent sentence together, what's he gonna spill to the world he hasn't already by falsely promising to release the Epstein files and then accidentally galvanizing Congress into forcing a vote on it? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14124 Posts
On May 11 2026 04:37 GreenHorizons wrote: You're correct that the Democrat party isn't left-wing. People disagreeing with that observation are real time examples of the ratchet effect. Thats not what I'm saying and thats again not what the ratchet effect is. Simply saying words with complex meanings behind them isn't a strong argument for anything. There are two relevent parties, they cannot both be right wing, thats not how any of this works. They can be right wing of you, but thats just your perspective. If you claim to be left wing but all you ever do is advocate for and push for the right to win what does that make you? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23950 Posts
On May 12 2026 01:17 Jankisa wrote: Ah yes, what i'm doing is equivalent to defending fascism. Nevermind you're literally using "but the other guys" to rationalize aiding and abetting genocide. GH, we went over this so many times, I kindly request that you stop with your tired and annoying spiel, at least on me. You might have convinced yourself that you are above party politics, you see yourself as too enlightened because you are the only one with the "bird eye view of history" or whatever smug shit you mutter to yourself, but I really don't need you to mock and gawk at me with your unhealthy obsession with spamming false equivalence in order to play defense for fascism. I'm ready to talk about DPB's ideas of ""constitutional challenges" and "civil disobedience" in the streets" should the Trump administration (or a following one) sufficiently cross whatever threshold people have for it being an illegitimate government. I'm also open to continuing to brainstorm other ideas about what we should do if/when a Trump/Republican admin finally does. I figured you guys were ready for a break and a dozen or so pages of shitposts and mock and gawk. Now that you've gotten that done perhaps we should continue? | ||
KwarK
United States43987 Posts
On May 12 2026 01:34 GreenHorizons wrote: Ah yes, what i'm doing is equivalent to defending fascism. Nevermind you're literally using "but the other guys" to rationalize aiding and abetting genocide. I'm ready to talk about DPB's ideas of ""constitutional challenges" and "civil disobedience" in the streets" should the Trump administration (or a following one) sufficiently cross whatever threshold people have for it being an illegitimate government. I'm also open to continuing to brainstorm other ideas about what we should do if/when a Trump/Republican admin finally does. I figured you guys were ready for a break and a dozen or so pages of shitposts and mock and gawk. Now that you've gotten that done perhaps we should continue? No, actually you're the one involved in genocide. | ||
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oBlade
United States6124 Posts
On May 12 2026 00:45 Jankisa wrote: This is, unfortunately, wishful thinking. USA won't allow itself to take the PR hit of Trump defecting to Russia, I'm not a big believer in deep state or similar shit, but in the extremely unlikely scenario where Trump doesn't run or runs and loses elections, concedes and does a peaceful transfer of power he's either going to have to be arrested as he's leaving the inauguration or suffer from a mysterious illness before he can activate his "retirement plan". The extremely unlikely scenario where Trump doesn't run. The extremely unlikely scenario where Trump runs and loses. That is just fascinating. What are you willing to bet that Trump will "run" in 2028? | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2576 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23950 Posts
On May 12 2026 01:27 Sermokala wrote: + Show Spoiler + Thats not what I'm saying and thats again not what the ratchet effect is. Simply saying words with complex meanings behind them isn't a strong argument for anything. There are two relevent parties, they cannot both be right wing,+ Show Spoiler + thats not how any of this works. They can be right wing of you, but thats just your perspective. If you claim to be left wing but all you ever do is advocate for and push for the right to win what does that make you? They obviously can be. If Democrats imploded and Republicans split into MAGA and super-MAGA that wouldn't make MAGA a left-wing party in any meaningful way. Sorta like how the bipartisan Hamster Wheel preventing any actual left-wing party from gaining power doesn't make a right-wing party left-wing. You're also welcome to disagree with Squirrel since they also recognize the Democrat party is a right-wing party, since you likely don't have any particular personal animosity towards them, you may be more likely to have a fruitful discussion about it. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14124 Posts
On May 12 2026 02:09 GreenHorizons wrote: They obviously can be. If Democrats imploded and Republicans split into MAGA and super-MAGA that wouldn't make MAGA a left-wing party in any meaningful way. Sorta like how the bipartisan Hamster Wheel preventing any actual left-wing party from gaining power doesn't make a right-wing party left-wing. You're also welcome to disagree with Squirrel since they also recognize the Democrat party is a right-wing party, since you likely don't have any particular personal animosity towards them, you may be more likely to have a fruitful discussion about it. Have you ever seen a bird with two right wings GH? If republicans spit into MAGA and super MAGA then the MAGA party would be more left wing than the super MAGA party. You're the one thats trying to hide your bias behind concepts that are so tired and overused by you that you've compeltly lost the plot on what a bird is. I'm not replying to squirll because hes bringing actual value and his perspective to the thread, you're just spouting off inside baseball to avoid having to put thoughts into words. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14124 Posts
On May 12 2026 01:49 LightSpectra wrote: Do you ever get bored of interrupting conversations to copy/paste the "mock and gawk" slop or is this actually your only hobby? Its projection, He doesn't want other people to have actual conversations he just wants to mock and gawk at left people in the thread. He can't take other peoples issues with what he says as being legitmate so he has to assert that they must be personal attacks. Notice how he always claims that we mock and gawk right wingers when we mock and gawk at him just as much. | ||
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Falling
Canada11512 Posts
It is said the uniparty made much spectacle over expanding healthcare coverage. But they were all of them deceived, for behind the public stunts, the uniparty agreed healthcare coverage should not expand and did not pass it in the 70 days one 'side' of the uniparty had a 'supermajority'. And ever since then the uniparty has been looking to remove the expanded healthcare coverage they did not pass. Democrats may not be terribly left wing relative to some European democracies, but they do represent the left in American politics. And if, according to you, America cannot even muster a single left wing party but has instead spawned two right wing parties... that does not speak very well of an expanding social consciousness to overthrow the bourgeois and establish a socialist paradise. But do continue to mock and gawk the unwashed and unenlightened proles in this thread. | ||
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Billyboy
1719 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell | ||
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