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Good lord. This is insane. This shit is getting real serious real quick
.On July 27 2018 11:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 11:47 crms wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/27/cohen-claims-trump-knew-of-meeting-with-russia-before-it-happened.htmlAs anyone following along has long suspected, Trump knew about the Jr. meeting with the Russians. The timeline is absolutely insane and apparently Cohen is willing to work with Mueller to give his version of events. Also it appears the leak was from Trumps team. Lanny's statement: “I cannot comment. And I have to wonder why the Trump people would put that out. It was not from us.” It wouldn't be the first time they 'leaked' stuff to get ahead of it. They both say they didn't do it. First takes are "this is it" and "this hurts Cohen" The long and short of it is that Trump's not worried and he just fucked Cohen's deal. Well at least it's optics, I'm sure he'll still get off mostly. Maybe a year in club fed if this was his best card.
If Cohen has this, he likely has much more. This shows Cohen was along for the whole ride. I think it's possible Cohen's testimony and the evidence they gathered all point to this. You know those tapes of Cohen that haven't been leaked yet? Cohen probably recorded Trump's conversations regarding the meeting and other things.
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On July 27 2018 11:57 Mohdoo wrote:Good lord. This is insane. This shit is getting real serious real quick . Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 11:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 27 2018 11:47 crms wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/27/cohen-claims-trump-knew-of-meeting-with-russia-before-it-happened.htmlAs anyone following along has long suspected, Trump knew about the Jr. meeting with the Russians. The timeline is absolutely insane and apparently Cohen is willing to work with Mueller to give his version of events. Also it appears the leak was from Trumps team. Lanny's statement: “I cannot comment. And I have to wonder why the Trump people would put that out. It was not from us.” It wouldn't be the first time they 'leaked' stuff to get ahead of it. They both say they didn't do it. First takes are "this is it" and "this hurts Cohen" The long and short of it is that Trump's not worried and he just fucked Cohen's deal. Well at least it's optics, I'm sure he'll still get off mostly. Maybe a year in club fed if this was his best card. If Cohen has this, he likely has much more. This shows Cohen was along for the whole ride. I think it's possible Cohen's testimony and the evidence they gathered all point to this. You know those tapes of Cohen that haven't been leaked yet? Cohen probably recorded Trump's conversations regarding the meeting and other things.
Is this the thing that makes Republicans willing to give up their seat? Is that what people think? I doubt it.
They're playing a game of chicken with someone too stupid to know what danger he's in/causing.
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5930 Posts
Judging from Lanny Davis' statement ("It was not from us"), it sort of feels like Trump's side leaked this information to CNN. Perhaps as a way to prevent Cohen from getting a nice plea deal from the authorities.
Trump's team has been leaking a whole lot of stuff to CNN and New York Times for a while now, despite them being FAKE NEWS. The majority of NYT articles that have Maggie Haberman in the byline clearly use the Trump Administration as the primary source, considering the number of times their reporting ends up downplaying negative events and situations in hindsight.
On July 27 2018 12:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 11:57 Mohdoo wrote:Good lord. This is insane. This shit is getting real serious real quick . On July 27 2018 11:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 27 2018 11:47 crms wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/27/cohen-claims-trump-knew-of-meeting-with-russia-before-it-happened.htmlAs anyone following along has long suspected, Trump knew about the Jr. meeting with the Russians. The timeline is absolutely insane and apparently Cohen is willing to work with Mueller to give his version of events. Also it appears the leak was from Trumps team. Lanny's statement: “I cannot comment. And I have to wonder why the Trump people would put that out. It was not from us.” It wouldn't be the first time they 'leaked' stuff to get ahead of it. They both say they didn't do it. First takes are "this is it" and "this hurts Cohen" The long and short of it is that Trump's not worried and he just fucked Cohen's deal. Well at least it's optics, I'm sure he'll still get off mostly. Maybe a year in club fed if this was his best card. If Cohen has this, he likely has much more. This shows Cohen was along for the whole ride. I think it's possible Cohen's testimony and the evidence they gathered all point to this. You know those tapes of Cohen that haven't been leaked yet? Cohen probably recorded Trump's conversations regarding the meeting and other things. Is this the thing that makes Republicans willing to give up their seat? Is that what people think? I doubt it. They're playing a game of chicken with someone too stupid to know what danger he's in/causing.
I think people have accepted that Republicans are going to ride this boat to the end, whatever the end is going to be. It does sort of torpedo the idea that there wasn't any collusion or attempt to collude with foreign actors, there's too much smoke and coincidences for it to be anything but collusion.
I agree with the second sentence entirely, the recent leaks are a result of the power struggle between Cohen and Trump.
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On July 27 2018 12:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 11:57 Mohdoo wrote:Good lord. This is insane. This shit is getting real serious real quick . On July 27 2018 11:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 27 2018 11:47 crms wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/27/cohen-claims-trump-knew-of-meeting-with-russia-before-it-happened.htmlAs anyone following along has long suspected, Trump knew about the Jr. meeting with the Russians. The timeline is absolutely insane and apparently Cohen is willing to work with Mueller to give his version of events. Also it appears the leak was from Trumps team. Lanny's statement: “I cannot comment. And I have to wonder why the Trump people would put that out. It was not from us.” It wouldn't be the first time they 'leaked' stuff to get ahead of it. They both say they didn't do it. First takes are "this is it" and "this hurts Cohen" The long and short of it is that Trump's not worried and he just fucked Cohen's deal. Well at least it's optics, I'm sure he'll still get off mostly. Maybe a year in club fed if this was his best card. If Cohen has this, he likely has much more. This shows Cohen was along for the whole ride. I think it's possible Cohen's testimony and the evidence they gathered all point to this. You know those tapes of Cohen that haven't been leaked yet? Cohen probably recorded Trump's conversations regarding the meeting and other things. Is this the thing that makes Republicans willing to give up their seat? Is that what people think? I doubt it. They're playing a game of chicken with someone too stupid to know what danger he's in/causing.
No, but I think we're about a month away from Trump being considered extremely toxic. Changes the dynamics of midterms for Republicans and reinforces the existing Democrat strategy. I think that's an appreciable advantage and could make the difference.
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I would imagine that him testifying that it happened would still have value if nothing else and cooperation would have to be an easy sell to him on anything at this point.
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I mean does no one see the comedy of leaking to CNN and everyone pretending/speculating on who leaked it like they don't know, seeing as how they talked to them?
EDIT: This is some top tier trolling by Trump. I honestly am impressed the media thinks people are really this ill informed. I guess it's not as much of a long shot as I thought though.
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Preventing Cohen from copping a nice plea deal by just throwing out the incriminating evidence he was gonna give is a next-level strategy.
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5930 Posts
On July 27 2018 12:44 ticklishmusic wrote: Preventing Cohen from copping a nice plea deal by just throwing out the incriminating evidence he was gonna give is a next-level strategy.
I wouldn't put it past them, they leaked that "only one tape" shit to NYT/Maggie.
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Here's the BBC article. Seems there is no direct evidence beyond his testimony. However it is strongly corroborated by the location of the meeting and the timing/content of Trump's tweets that day. Even Banmon said there is a 0 percent chance Don Jr. wouldnt tell his dad a out that meeting.
This is just way 178 of 39171 in which Cohen could likely sink Trump. The juicy part about this one is how it ties directly to the Mueller investigation and Russian collusion.
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On July 27 2018 16:51 On_Slaught wrote:Here's the BBC article. Seems there is no direct evidence beyond his testimony. However it is strongly corroborated by the location of the meeting and the timing/content of Trump's tweets that day. Even Banmon said there is a 0 percent chance Don Jr. wouldnt tell his dad a out that meeting. This is just way 178 of 39171 in which Cohen could likely sink Trump. The juicy part about this one is how it ties directly to the Mueller investigation and Russian collusion. https://twitter.com/BBCNorthAmerica/status/1022707620849872896
I'm not sure any publication which doesn't even mention the unethical sourcing of the story doesn't care more about clicks than integrity.
Also no idea what the story or tweet add?
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On July 27 2018 07:48 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 06:57 iamthedave wrote:On July 27 2018 06:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 27 2018 06:13 iamthedave wrote:On July 27 2018 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 27 2018 05:46 Plansix wrote:Here is the recent NPR story in regards to polling about the FBI and confidence in general: Source:But a whopping 72 percent of Americans said they have faith in the CIA's and FBI's conclusions about the assessment of the Russian election interference, compared with just 15 percent who believe Putin's denials. Trump has said Putin strongly denies any involvement. Eighty-six percent of Democrats say they believe the intelligence community over Putin, and 63 percent of GOP voters say the same thing. However, 21 percent of Republicans do say they believe Putin's dismissals. There was some other, more generalized polling in regards to government agencies, but I don’t believe NPR was the one that reported those. They had the general trustworthiness and other stats. But the key take away, in my opinion, is the majority of citizens don’t have a big issue with the current information coming out of the government on the Russia investigation in general. The FBI isn’t making a lot of public assertions about other topics, so its hard to poll on those. And the majority of Americans think Trump is a liar and a good chunk are not sold on his immigration policies. What's funny is it has to be mostly a different group of people than this group in 2006 A majority of Americans initially support a controversial National Security Agency program to collect information on telephone calls made in the United States in an effort to identify and investigate potential terrorist threats, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.
The new survey found that 63 percent of Americans said they found the NSA program to be an acceptable way to investigate terrorism, including 44 percent who strongly endorsed the effort. Another 35 percent said the program was unacceptable, which included 24 percent who strongly objected to it.
A slightly larger majority--66 percent--said they would not be bothered if NSA collected records of personal calls they had made, the poll found.
Underlying those views is the belief that the need to investigate terrorism outweighs privacy concerns. According to the poll, 65 percent of those interviewed said it was more important to investigate potential terrorist threats "even if it intrudes on privacy." www.washingtonpost.comThe overlap (people having faith in them in both cases) would be " reasonable centrists". It acts as an interesting case study in what I think is wrong with US politics and 2-party partisanship (combined with fptp). It betrays the very politicized nature of trust in our intelligence agencies. I don't understand quite why it's so bad in the US, on this particular point. England is almost as two party (with occasional shared governance as is currently the case), but there's little politicisation of the intelligence services, and trust in them is generally quite high. I don't know enough about British intelligence to know whether that trust is misplaced or not. I'm reasonably familiar with them being close allies with US intelligence (though reluctantly at times) and we do heinous stuff on the regular. It's been a while since Iran but I imagine that's not something anyone was held accountable for in the UK either. As far as I know our spy services are well regarded internationally, but I think that's more for efficiency than moral character. Honestly, we the pubilc know pretty much fuck all about what our intelligence services get up to. They rarely appear in the news, none of the upper echelons are public figures, it's all direct-deal government stuff. I couldn't tell you who leads MI:5 without a google search. I don't think he's been mentioned in the news this year. You generalise a lot. I personally haven't forgotten Prism, or DRIPA/IPA (also literally known as snoopers charter). I can't speak for MI:5, but the GCHQ is fucking scary, and by no means better or more trustworthy than CIA, FBI etc.
I'm not really generalising, like I said, the British public knows very little about what the British intelligence services get up to. The papers don't talk about them often, their activities don't become public news often (for good or bad), and we very rarely even have a name to put to all those James Bond fantasies.
The most recent British intelligence news I can think of is the Shkripal stuff.
As for the GCHQ thing, as far as I know - and correct me if I'm wrong because I think I know what you're talking about - that particular incident concluded that the system they have in place is flawed but has not been misused. As in, they have more access than they should, but have never used that access in ways they should not in pursuit of their investigations. If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, GCHQ actually came off looking good while the government (who drafted the regulations that gave them too much power - which they have not misused as far as anyone is aware) came off as lazy and dumb.
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On July 27 2018 17:09 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 16:51 On_Slaught wrote:Here's the BBC article. Seems there is no direct evidence beyond his testimony. However it is strongly corroborated by the location of the meeting and the timing/content of Trump's tweets that day. Even Banmon said there is a 0 percent chance Don Jr. wouldnt tell his dad a out that meeting. This is just way 178 of 39171 in which Cohen could likely sink Trump. The juicy part about this one is how it ties directly to the Mueller investigation and Russian collusion. https://twitter.com/BBCNorthAmerica/status/1022707620849872896 I'm not sure any publication which doesn't even mention the unethical sourcing of the story doesn't care more about clicks than integrity. Also no idea what the story or tweet add?
What unethical sourcing?
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Recording a client without his knowledge I'd guess
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On July 27 2018 18:01 Artisreal wrote: Recording a client without his knowledge I'd guess
There was no taping of this particular issue. If he is talking about Cohen being suspect in general, his testimony is not, nor was it ever going to be, sufficient for Mueller. It's just another piece of the puzzle. That it fits with the timeline we know just strengthens its credibility.
Also, another story which will probably get buried by the Cohen thing; Avenatti claims to have 3 more women who Trump paid off. There is also a rumor circulating about a possible pregnancy with one. IMO the easiest way to get rid of Trump would be to find evidence he paid someone to get an abortion. I think he loses Conservative suppprt overnight if such (credible) evidence was found. I'll take "illegitimate child" though as a runnerup prize.
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On July 27 2018 18:00 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 17:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 27 2018 16:51 On_Slaught wrote:Here's the BBC article. Seems there is no direct evidence beyond his testimony. However it is strongly corroborated by the location of the meeting and the timing/content of Trump's tweets that day. Even Banmon said there is a 0 percent chance Don Jr. wouldnt tell his dad a out that meeting. This is just way 178 of 39171 in which Cohen could likely sink Trump. The juicy part about this one is how it ties directly to the Mueller investigation and Russian collusion. https://twitter.com/BBCNorthAmerica/status/1022707620849872896 I'm not sure any publication which doesn't even mention the unethical sourcing of the story doesn't care more about clicks than integrity. Also no idea what the story or tweet add? What unethical sourcing?
On July 27 2018 18:01 Artisreal wrote: Recording a client without his knowledge I'd guess
Well, typically yes. There's some legal grey area with lawyers and clients committing crimes and such but I mean it's also like the worst possible thing you find out your lawyer has been doing short of actively giving it to a prosecutor unprovoked. It also kinda means you'll never be trusted in a room like that again.
But actually I was talking about running an anonymous source for no stated reason. Of course we should all know it was for ad money pure and simple. It's journalism ethics 101, So I don't think I would put much credibility in any "serious" publication that doesn't mention it.
Not to mention it's much more comical to watch on TV where they have to say that they confirmed the story with the source, then speculate on who it is they talked to. Like it's some sort of game show high school drama or something. I didn't think people really wouldn't notice, but I've seen very little about it.
On July 27 2018 18:10 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 18:01 Artisreal wrote: Recording a client without his knowledge I'd guess There was no taping of this particular issue. If he is talking about Cohen being suspect in general, his testimony is not, nor was it ever going to be, sufficient for Mueller. It's just another piece of the puzzle. That it fits with the timeline we know just strengthens its credibility. Also, another story which will probably get buried by the Cohen thing; Avenatti claims to have 3 more women who Trump paid off. There is also a rumor circulating about a possible pregnancy with one. IMO the easiest way to get rid of Trump would be to find evidence he paid someone to get an abortion. I think he loses Conservative suppprt overnight if such (credible) evidence was found. I'll take "illegitimate child" though as a runnerup prize. https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1022698938409705472
No that's not what I was referencing.
As to the other story even if it was all true, that is tabloid trash, not news.
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That the President of the United States has been secretly paying off multiple women to keep affairs quiet (including a possible pregnancy), and then lied about it to the America people, is most definitely a real news story and not just tabloid trash. That alone would likely get any other President in history impeached before even taking into consideration the possible campaign finance violations. That it only rings a 4/10 on the Trump Controversy scale is an indictment of how out of control this administration is, not the news story itself.
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On July 27 2018 18:24 On_Slaught wrote: That the President of the United States has been secretly paying off multiple women to keep affairs quiet (including a possible pregnancy), and then lied about it to the America people, is most definitely real news and not just tabloid trash. That alone would basically get any other President in history impeached before even taking into consideration the possible campaign finance violations. That it only rings a 4/10 on the Trump Controversy scale is an indictment of how out of control this administration is, not the news story itself.
In 2014 none of that would surprise anyone. I find it hard to believe anyone is actually surprised. So basically you have the rumor (pretty much anyone would have believed before he became president) becoming slightly more real and specific. No that's not news, that's tabloid trash at least imo.
If they are allegedly tied to campaign finance violations, lucky for Trump they are basically worthless in that they have to prove Trump (who everyone thinks is an idiot) fully grasped that it would be illegal and have intentionally broke the law.
Remember when this all started and I said he was going to eventually get his "extremely careless" pass? That's where all that would fall anyway. If Comey didn't think you could prove intention with Hillary's server there's no way anyone can prove Trump understood campaign finance law and intentionally broke it.
I know I'm always telling you guys to calm down and that whatever the latest thing is will not end Trump but I just have to say it's not because I don't think he should be locked under the worst prison in the country, it's because every single sign is flashing in bright neon that it's not happening.
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On one hand it is an emerging technology, on the other I wonder if the ACLU knew the arrogance of Politicians in this country being compared to common criminals. And without the details on how the test was done anything goes.
+ Show Spoiler +Representative John Lewis of Georgia and Representative Bobby L. Rush of Illinois are both Democrats, members of the Congressional Black Caucus and civil rights leaders.
But facial recognition technology made by Amazon, which is being used by some police departments and other organizations, incorrectly matched the lawmakers with people who had been charged with a crime, the American Civil Liberties Union reported on Thursday morning.
The errors emerged as part of a larger test in which the civil liberties group used Amazon’s facial software to compare the photos of all federal lawmakers against a database of 25,000 publicly available mug shots. In the test, the Amazon technology incorrectly matched 28 members of Congress with people who had been arrested, amounting to a 5 percent error rate among legislators.
The test disproportionally misidentified African-American and Latino members of Congress as the people in mug shots.
“This test confirms that facial recognition is flawed, biased and dangerous,” said Jacob Snow, a technology and civil liberties lawyer with the A.C.L.U. of Northern California.
On Thursday afternoon, three of the misidentified legislators — Senator Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts, Representative Luis V. Gutiérrez of Illinois and Representative Mark DeSaulnier of California, all Democrats — followed up with a letter to Jeff Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, saying there are “serious questions regarding whether Amazon should be selling its technology to law enforcement at this time.”
In the letter, the lawmakers asked for details on how Amazon tested its facial technology for accuracy and bias. They also requested a list of all government agencies using Amazon’s facial technology as well as all law enforcement and intelligence agencies Amazon had communicated with about the system.
Separately, two other congressmen wrongly matched with mug shots — Mr. Lewis and Representative Jimmy Gomez, a California Democrat — wrote their own letter to Mr. Bezos requesting an immediate meeting “to discuss how to address the defects of this technology.” The letter was first obtained by BuzzFeed.
Nina Lindsey, an Amazon Web Services spokeswoman, said in a statement that the company’s customers had used its facial recognition technology for various beneficial purposes, including preventing human trafficking and reuniting missing children with their families. She added that the A.C.L.U. had used the company’s face-matching technology, called Amazon Rekognition, differently during its test than the company recommended for law enforcement customers.
For one thing, she said, police departments do not typically use the software to make fully autonomous decisions about people’s identities. “It is worth noting that in real-world scenarios, Amazon Rekognition is almost exclusively used to help narrow the field and allow humans to expeditiously review and consider options using their judgment,” Ms. Lindsey said in the statement.
She also noted that the A.C.L.U had used the system’s default setting for matches, called a “confidence threshold,” of 80 percent. That means the group counted any face matches the system proposed that had a similarity score of 80 percent or more. Amazon itself uses the same percentage in one facial recognition example on its site describing matching an employee’s face with a work ID badge. But Ms. Lindsey said Amazon recommended that police departments use a much higher similarity score — 95 percent — to reduce the likelihood of erroneous matches.
Facial recognition — a technology that can be used to identify unknown people in photos or videos without their knowledge or permission — is fast becoming a top target for civil liberties groups and privacy experts.
Proponents see it as a useful tool that can help identify criminals. It was recently used to identify the man charged in the deadly shooting at The Capital Gazette’s newsroom in Annapolis, Md.
But civil liberties groups view it as a surveillance system that can inhibit people’s ability to participate in political protests or go about their lives anonymously. This month, Microsoft said the technology was too risky for tech companies to deploy without government oversight and called on Congress to regulate it.
Over the last two months, Amazon has come under increasing pressure for selling its Rekognition technology to law enforcement agencies. The company has sold the service as a way for police departments to easily identify suspects in photos or videos.
Amazon’s site describes how its system can perform “real-time face recognition across tens of millions of faces” and detect “up to 100 faces in challenging crowded photos.” (The New York Times recently used the Amazon technology to help identify guests at the royal wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.)
In May, two dozen civil liberties groups, led by the A.C.L.U., wrote a letter to Mr. Bezos, demanding that his company stop selling the facial technology to law enforcement. The groups warned that the software could be used to trail protesters, undocumented immigrants or other members of the public — not just criminal suspects.
Similar demands of Mr. Bezos from Amazon employees, Amazon investors, and several hundred academics soon followed.
Mr. Snow of the A.C.L.U. said his group’s test of Amazon’s software should push Congress to put a moratorium on law enforcement’s use of facial recognition technology.
But in a blog post last month, Matt Wood, general manager of artificial intelligence at Amazon Web Services, said that there had been no reports of law enforcement abuse of Amazon’s facial technology. He added that Amazon believed it was “the wrong approach to impose a ban on promising new technologies because they might be used by bad actors for nefarious purposes in the future.”
In a letter to Amazon, the Congressional Black Caucus noted the potential for racial bias with the technology — an issue raised by a recent M.I.T. study that found some commercial facial recognition systems correctly identified a higher proportion of white men than darker-skinned women. In their letter, the caucus members urged Mr. Bezos to hire “more lawyers, engineers and data scientists of color to assist in properly calibrating this technology to account for racial bias that can lead to inaccuracies with potentially devastating outcomes.”
In the civil liberties group’s test, the Amazon software misidentified several members of the Congressional Black Caucus, including Mr. Lewis and Mr. Rush, as other people who had been arrested.
“We think these test results really raise the concern that facial recognition has a race problem,” said Mr. Snow, the A.C.L.U. lawyer.
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I'm not sure taping Trump is unethical when the guy lies so much. Working with him must be hell, because he might blame you for not doing something he never asked, or blame you for doing something he did asked, while denying he did. You can't just rely on a prior discussion being genuine like with regular people, because you know he can do a 180 without blinking and you are the one who has to crawl out from under the bus.
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On July 27 2018 19:07 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I'm not sure taping Trump is unethical when the guy lies so much. Working with him must be hell, because he might blame you for not doing something he never asked, or blame you for doing something he did asked, while denying he did. You can't just rely on a prior discussion being genuine like with regular people, because you know he can do a 180 without blinking and you are the one who has to crawl out from under the bus.
The point is you're supposed to tell him you're taping the conversation.
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