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On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation.
What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama.
You are not uninformed enough to believe that it was solely Obama's fault. Congress undercut him with the vote on striking Syria. Now we can debate teh merit or flaws of the redline Obama drew(it was a bad idea), but that public undercutting of his promise for airstrikes was a huge mistake by Congress. And Democrats and Republicans. That single moment was when Putin saw that our internal divisions finally extended into our foreign policy. It is no shocker that they crashed in Ukraine shortly after.
Congress should have voted minor strike against Assad at that time and really worked with the EU to make a plan to end the fighting in Syrian. Instead they put self interest over the interest of our allies and image abroad and we have looked weak ever since.
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On July 14 2018 02:03 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. Define tougher? Like would win in a fist fight? From a military perspective? What has Trump done that is tough? I guess getting into a trade war? In my experience in life people who talk really tough, are not really tough. I'm more scared of those who talk soft and carry a big stick.
Well, he has launched two military strikes, very likely for the express purpose of demonstrating his resolve. But I think more importantly, the world is seeing his resolve on the trade issues. Trump doesn't make idle threats.
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On July 14 2018 02:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:45 On_Slaught wrote:
We also discussed how he was getting played by NK. They are literally expanding their nuclear capabilities while Trump tweets about how he made them a non-threat. Like I said, the North Korea issue isn't settled. It's going to take years to see how it's going to pan out. Trump hasn't really given up anything yet. Trump decided to stop holding military exercises with South Korea. This is a huge concession given away for absolutely nothing. Mattis was not consulted about this decision. Trump gave KJU a photo op of him standing next to a US President as an equal. In Pyongyang's eyes, this is a very valuable concession indeed, so much so that past US administrations have tried to use the opportunity of such a summit as a carrot to induce good behavior in North Korea. In return, Trump says he got "denuclearization" but North Korea is just continuing to build infrastructure for its nuclear weapons program. Trump claims Kim agreed to the return of the remains of American soldiers who died during the Korean War. Trump said that he asked for this partly because the parents of soldiers who died in the Korean War were calling the White House and asking for their children's bodies back. However, the Korean War lasted from 1950 to 1953. More recently, Trump said that 200 bodies have been returned by North Korea since the summit, but this is a blatant lie as the real number is 0. So what. It's all symbolic. I want to see how Trump responds.
The facts of who gave up what are not "symbolic." They are facts.
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On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation.
Lets be clear, stop beating around the bush because you simply cannot admit if something's wrong.
Russia would've invaded crimea. Full stop. That's where their black sea fleet is stationed. The majority there is russian. This would've happened. The only question is, would Trump have intervened militarily. Because that's the only option he'd have.
And the answer there clearly is "no". He wouldn't have gone to war for a non member state of the NATO (it's actually doubtful that he'd do it for a member state either). That's a fact. There's nothing to gain there, and as you amongst others point out constantly, he does shit to make profit.
What precipitated the invasion of the Ukraine was the eastward expansion of the NATO. Ukraine started talking to the NATO in 1994, how long exactly was Obama president? Right.
Again, every single thing you're arguing here is disgustingly disingenuous and completely disconnected from reality.
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On July 14 2018 01:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:41 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:38 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 01:31 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:28 Plansix wrote:
I think Trump really wants to be buddies with Putin for some reason that we don't entirely know at this point. Because Trump's normal stance on diplomacy is "attack attack attack, claim everything is great". This isn't really accurate. Trump goes out of his way to be nice to leaders with whom he is trying to build a relationship from scratch. He wants a productive summit, so he's not going to lead it off with a big a "fuck you" to Putin. If we accept that international diplomacy runs on playground rules, I guess I could accept that. But that doesn't excuse Trump excusing the invasion of Ukraine and other things Russia in recent interviews. Other nations watch this coverage and don't see it as 5D chess. They see the President throwing Ukraine to the wolves to be buddy buddy with Putin. So I question how productive this summit is going to be, especially with how hard Trump got played by NK and the EU nations at the last summits. I'm not sure why you're so quick to conclude that Trump got played by anyone. Let's see what happens. You mean he didn't claim that NK had returned the return the remains US vets that died during the Korean war. Yet, not only had they not done that, but they stood up the US delegation that was set to meet with them to set up how it was going to happen. NK is now ignoring the US and pretending like the meeting wasn't real. Endless experts said this was exactly what would happen with NK. Yet Trump went along with it and people cheered him on. NK got what it has wanted for 50 years and the US got nothing except a letter to Trump saying he is good. That is the text book example of getting played.
Don't forget how on the same day the U.S. delegation got stood up, he tweeted a "great" letter he got from North Korea. I'm not quite sure how you can project a less tough image than Trump to foreign leaders. Especially after those leaked phone calls with Australia.
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On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread.
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On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread.
And then argued for multiple pages as to why it wasn't a big deal/wrong.
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On July 14 2018 02:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:03 JimmiC wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. Define tougher? Like would win in a fist fight? From a military perspective? What has Trump done that is tough? I guess getting into a trade war? In my experience in life people who talk really tough, are not really tough. I'm more scared of those who talk soft and carry a big stick. Well, he has launched two military strikes, very likely for the express purpose of demonstrating his resolve. But I think more importantly, the world is seeing his resolve on the trade issues. Trump doesn't make idle threats.
Idk how to tell you this, but if launching military strikes makes you tough, Obama tough as fuck
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/
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Lol lets ask Syria. They use chemical weapons on their own people and he drops a few cruise missiles into the desert twice, shutting down a few air bases for a couple hours and blowing up a few buildings. And he gave the Syrians time to prepare for his "attacks" because he announced them ahead of time. Not a very threatening response, nor very different from Obama.
The limited evidence available tells me he wouldn't have done jack shit to stop Crimea.
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On July 14 2018 02:09 On_Slaught wrote:
Lol lets ask Syria. They use chemical weapons on their own people and he drops a few cruise missiles into the desert twice, shutting down a few air bases for a couple hours and blowing up a few buildings. And he gave the Syrians time to prepare for his "attacks" because he announced them ahead of time. Not a very threatening response, nor very different from Obama.
The limited evidence available tells me he wouldn't have done jack shit to stop Crimea.
To be fair on that one, the warning for the air strikes were for Russian troops in Syria more than for Syrian troops. We did not want to escalate matters further by killing a bunch of Russia soldiers. That would be reckless.
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On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation.
I don't think tough is the right word. Erratic more like. Sure there are things he's followed through on (tariffs) but there are also things he's rolled over on (tariffs). There isn't a whole lot of rhyme or reason to his strategies, and people who support him have a tendency to connect the dots as the see fit.
Fewer Presidents have gotten less done in their first year or so in office than Trump. Seems like the guy is pretty impotent.
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On July 14 2018 02:07 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. And then argued for multiple pages as to why it wasn't a big deal/wrong.
And then we found out down the line that Vox-motherfucking-Day was on the Mercer/Breitbart payroll and Bannon had recruited him to propagate white nationalist ideology in a new, repackaged format about about European Heritage. And the talent-less clown just changed a couple of things and dropped the 14 words out there into the world. And of course anyone with the slightly familiarity with white nationalism was like "Do you know what you just posted?"
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On July 14 2018 02:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:09 On_Slaught wrote:
Lol lets ask Syria. They use chemical weapons on their own people and he drops a few cruise missiles into the desert twice, shutting down a few air bases for a couple hours and blowing up a few buildings. And he gave the Syrians time to prepare for his "attacks" because he announced them ahead of time. Not a very threatening response, nor very different from Obama.
The limited evidence available tells me he wouldn't have done jack shit to stop Crimea. To be fair on that one, the warning for the air strikes were for Russian troops in Syria more than for Syrian troops. We did not want to escalate matters further by killing a bunch of Russia soldiers. That would be reckless.
Which would have been the same thing holding Trump back from doing anything to stop Crimea from being annexed.
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On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread.
Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about.
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On July 14 2018 02:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:01 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:45 On_Slaught wrote:
We also discussed how he was getting played by NK. They are literally expanding their nuclear capabilities while Trump tweets about how he made them a non-threat. Like I said, the North Korea issue isn't settled. It's going to take years to see how it's going to pan out. Trump hasn't really given up anything yet. Trump decided to stop holding military exercises with South Korea. This is a huge concession given away for absolutely nothing. Mattis was not consulted about this decision. Trump gave KJU a photo op of him standing next to a US President as an equal. In Pyongyang's eyes, this is a very valuable concession indeed, so much so that past US administrations have tried to use the opportunity of such a summit as a carrot to induce good behavior in North Korea. In return, Trump says he got "denuclearization" but North Korea is just continuing to build infrastructure for its nuclear weapons program. Trump claims Kim agreed to the return of the remains of American soldiers who died during the Korean War. Trump said that he asked for this partly because the parents of soldiers who died in the Korean War were calling the White House and asking for their children's bodies back. However, the Korean War lasted from 1950 to 1953. More recently, Trump said that 200 bodies have been returned by North Korea since the summit, but this is a blatant lie as the real number is 0. So what. It's all symbolic. I want to see how Trump responds. The facts of who gave up what are not "symbolic." They are facts.
This is like watching someone take the 4D chess meme seriously and assume that his screwups must have some deeper meaning behind them.
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On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about.
You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too.
Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The Mainstream
We have read the emails. You got played.
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On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I'm not sure what's so hard to believe about there being American influence in Ukrainian politics. As GH likes to point out, we have a rich history of meddling in the affairs of other countries. And as to the Ukraine specifically, there has been, dating back to the Bush years, significant pressure to push the Ukraine into the EU/NATO as a means of further containing Russia.
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On July 14 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 02:06 Plansix wrote:On July 14 2018 02:04 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 14 2018 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:55 m4ini wrote:On July 14 2018 01:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2018 01:46 m4ini wrote:Q: How can you improve relations with Russia when they have illegally occupied another country?
Trump says that happened when Obama was president. He says he does not think Putin would have done that if Trump had been president. He says, if you look at what he has done, no other president has done so much. Crimea was an Obama disaster.
He literally said that. I don't see what's wrong with Trump's statement. He's clearly stating that Russia invaded Ukraine because it knew that Obama was a weak president, and that Putin wouldn't have tried it on Trump's watch. I think it goes without saying that everyone knows that Trump has far more resolve than Obama. How twisted of a mind would you need to have to actually believe that? Russia would've invaded Ukraine either way, because there's jack shit the US can do about it. To argue otherwise is disgustingly disingenuous. Trump would've done nothing different, or do you actually think someone believes that he'd go to war with russia? I don't really know whether Russia would have done it on Trump's watch or if Trump would have responded militarily. All that I am saying is that Trump is clearly tougher than Obama. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Obama likely precipitated the Russian invasion of Ukraine with his meddling in Ukrainian politics. So Russia's invasion of the Ukraine wasn't simply about Obama perceived weakness to the extent that was part of Russia's calculation. What the fuck are you talking about?? You are literally regurgitating Russian propaganda about American meddling in Ukraine perpetrating the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dauntless like to regurgitate propaganda for all sorts of sources when it comes to his political views. Many of us still remember the day when he unknowingly posted the 14 words in this thread. Apparently you still don't understand what that conversation was about. You getting hoodwinked by a bunch of white nationalists into propagating their hateful, but cleaned up for the public, bullshit? Because that is literally what happened, Vox Day rehashed white nationalist propaganda and you reposted it thinking it was something new. He was paid to do it too. Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The MainstreamWe have read the emails. You got played.
Like I said, you don't know what that conversation was about.
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