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On July 24 2024 09:55 brian wrote: i think it is generally best practice to avoid the phrase ‘well spoken and articulate.’ it’s sort of classic dog whistle racism in the sense that it implies the opposite is more expected.
i know todays conversation is in juxtaposition to two old white men who are not, but never the less. that specific phrase is just not it. i hope i’m not over stepping here or projecting from my own little bubble 🤷🏻♂️
All good! I appreciate the feedback; I hadn't considered the race context. My mind was focused on "two old people who stumble and mess up all the time vs. a much younger, charismatic person giving a solid speech".
On July 23 2024 01:57 oBlade wrote: Kamala can barely put a working sentence together.
I don't think blatant falsehoods like this are going to stick. They can stick to Biden and Trump, for very valid reasons, but it's extremely clear that Harris can speak just fine. I'm sure that Republicans will cherry-pick the occasional gaff or awkward silence that any person could experience, but I don't think Republicans trying to make fun of Harris's speaking skills - when Trump is Trump - is a smart play.
Here is Harris's first rally. Well-spoken, articulate, friendly, good energy, proud of the accomplishments that she and Biden share, capable of laying out her vision for the future, and not afraid to call out a 78-year-old fraudulent, lying, cheating, scamming, traitorous, predatory, traitorous, fascist, convicted criminal.
Man, that was fantastic and refreshing to watch after putting up with geriatrics for the last 4+ years. She actually is growing on me.
Same here. I'm trying to temper my expectations, but I can't help but feel a little more optimistic.
On July 24 2024 10:30 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't think it's a good thing that our expectations have been driven so low that pretty much anyone with even halfway decent public speaking skills looks like a massive improvement to us.
Agreed, and it pretty much covers the biggest flaw Biden had, while still retaining the accomplishments of the Biden-Harris administration.
On July 24 2024 09:55 brian wrote: i think it is generally best practice to avoid the phrase ‘well spoken and articulate.’ it’s sort of classic dog whistle racism in the sense that it implies the opposite is more expected.
i know todays conversation is in juxtaposition to two old white men who are not, but never the less. that specific phrase is just not it. i hope i’m not over stepping here or projecting from my own little bubble 🤷🏻♂️
To be fair it was a response to someone outright saying the opposite.
The sheer prospect of republican brains melting when having a black woman as president fills my heart with joy. It was spectacular to see under Obama, it will be spectacular again and this time it could be a double whammy.
I think whether these types of phrases should/can be used is always contextual. In the context 'surprisingly articulate for a black person' it is clearly racist but in the 'a positive break from these two inarticulate old white men' context it clearly is not.
Harris is coming out strong, i'm impressed and a lot more optimistic than i was 2 days ago. Her record can't be denied, if she's not competent enough, who is? Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick? The MAGAs seem really confused and are just flailing around, whining.
JD Vance seems even blander than Mike Pence, how is this even possible? Guess the criteria is not being able to take away any attention from Trump. Harris VP pick will be strategical and give her another boost.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
What should they have done? Start an internal nomination speedrun 4 months before the election?
The way Biden pulled out was very embarrassing for the Democrats, but their only chance of winning was rallying behind another candidate ASAP. The VP was the obvious choice.
I am happy they seem to make the best of a bad situation. KH seems like a very decent human being, which should be enough to pull a lot of voters away from Trump.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
What should they have done? Start an internal nomination speedrun 4 months before the election?
The way Biden pulled out was very embarrassing for the Democrats, but their only chance of winning was rallying behind another candidate ASAP. The VP was the obvious choice.
I am happy they seem to make the best of a bad situation. KH seems like a very decent human being, which should be enough to pull a lot of voters away from Trump.
The weird thing is that the party nomination is the "real" election here. It's quite unique to the US. In the UK, which is the most similar system, there are no nation-wide FFA primaries to decide who is the leader of labor/conservative parties. There's a vote among members, but there's no drawn out campaign. It's just a few people get nominated and then the members vote. The end. There is now a new party leader. Very little fuss.
Here in Spain, most parties have a similar system (the PP just have party elite choose the leader, because of course popularity is unimportant in the Popular Party), where there's a bunch of nominees, a quick election and bang, new leader.
The election is far more about the parties and far less about the people. The people obviously matter. Pedro Sanchez is a popular guy, and that helps the PSOE get votes. But realistically people are voting for the PSOE and their campaign, not for Pedro Sanchez. In Spain it's even reflected in the way you vote: you vote for a list of people, you can't even vote specifically for Pedro Sanchez. As for countries with elected presidents, France is probably the most similar to the US, and France's multi-party system really helps them out here. If Macron were a doddery old man who couldn't string two words together, the choice wouldn't be Macron or Le Pen, because one of them (or even both) would fail to get through the first round. Or maybe doddery Macron would get through the first round, showing that doddery old men are still popular enough with the general public. But that is a multi-party system with a two-round vote. The party leader is not in question in the first round, and it is part of the general election. You don't like who your party chose as their leader, you can easily vote for someone else. The US' system is inherently set up so that doesn't work. It's all broken. And that's why the primary seems so important.
Within the system you have, it's clear that changing Biden for Harris as the candidate is a big deal, but it really shouldn't be. The system is broken, and people keep bringing that up every time you have an election. But apparently not enough Americans believe their electoral system is broken for people to want to change it. Maybe this switcheroo will open a few more eyes and convince people to push for constitutional change?
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
What should they have done? Start an internal nomination speedrun 4 months before the election?
That would have been great. Finally have some discussion and vibrancy within the Democratic party. Clean slate away all the corporate and wall street and regressive elements and military-industrial hawks. Their convention is still not for another month, almost 2 months after Biden lost the election for himself. Nobody is actually nominated until then to begin with.
Even Warren and Buttigieg polled higher than Kamala for a prospective primary at the beginning of the year.
On July 24 2024 18:24 Slydie wrote: The way Biden pulled out was very embarrassing for the Democrats, but their only chance of winning was rallying behind another candidate ASAP. The VP was the obvious choice.
Wouldn't a better candidate give them a better chance to win? What is the urgency? If they had an open convention and we didn't know who the nominee and running mate were until August, what would Republicans do in that time that would hurt the Democrats' chances at the presidency any more than Biden's unprecedented admission of defeat already did? It's not like the right would have a candidate to attack. 4 months is quite a long time if you look at how parliamentary systems can call almost snap elections. The Democrats could anyway have just focused on downballot races in the short interim before they had a presidential candidate and a national platform.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
What should they have done? Start an internal nomination speedrun 4 months before the election?
The way Biden pulled out was very embarrassing for the Democrats, but their only chance of winning was rallying behind another candidate ASAP. The VP was the obvious choice.
I am happy they seem to make the best of a bad situation. KH seems like a very decent human being, which should be enough to pull a lot of voters away from Trump.
It never should have gotten to this point in the first place. If you go back several pages ago, I even said that they needed to make Harris the nominee after the debate because that was the best thing to do after Biden shit his pants on live television.
It never should have gotten to this point. The party is scrambling and making an absolute mockery of the entire electoral process because they didn't stand up and demand that Joe not run again earlier in his term. We shouldn't even be where we are.
The fact that I think they're doing the best they feasibly can under the circumstances is only more thing for me to get angry about, because I feel totally trapped unable to do anything to punish them because like everyone else in this thread I'm much more worried about a MAGA return to the White House than I am about the disorganized buffoonery of the Democratic party running things. But that just shows what dire straits our democracy is actually in that the clown car of fuck ups of the Democratic party is preferable to whatever evil shit the Republicans have planned if they win.
This should be pissing everyone off, not just me. Sure Kamala Harris is preferable to Biden losing to Trump, but how far are we willing to drop our standards for what's acceptable and how long are we willing to keep them there?
I remember in 2008 feeling like I was choosing between great option and better option when I voted for Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton in that Democratic primary, and now I'm sitting here thinking that I'd much rather vote for John McCain than either of our current candidates, even if it meant putting up with Sarah Palin. Our standards have dropped so much in less than 2 decades and if we just sit back and let shit like THIS be the new normal then what's going to happen in the next couple of decades? Kids born in 2000 won't even get a chance to vote in a real primary until they are in their 30's!
So I'm making a big fuss about this because I don't want people excusing any of this like it's ok. This is the Democrats scrambling at the edge of what is allowed in a national election because they were disorganized, cowardly and stupid. They need to be remembered for that. Don't call any of what's happening here "shrewd." because it isn't. This entire debacle is nothing but one gigantic national embarassment that I can't wait to finally be over and done with.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
What should they have done? Start an internal nomination speedrun 4 months before the election?
The way Biden pulled out was very embarrassing for the Democrats, but their only chance of winning was rallying behind another candidate ASAP. The VP was the obvious choice.
I am happy they seem to make the best of a bad situation. KH seems like a very decent human being, which should be enough to pull a lot of voters away from Trump.
The weird thing is that the party nomination is the "real" election here. It's quite unique to the US. In the UK, which is the most similar system, there are no nation-wide FFA primaries to decide who is the leader of labor/conservative parties. There's a vote among members, but there's no drawn out campaign. It's just a few people get nominated and then the members vote. The end. There is now a new party leader. Very little fuss.
Here in Spain, most parties have a similar system (the PP just have party elite choose the leader, because of course popularity is unimportant in the Popular Party), where there's a bunch of nominees, a quick election and bang, new leader.
The election is far more about the parties and far less about the people. The people obviously matter. Pedro Sanchez is a popular guy, and that helps the PSOE get votes. But realistically people are voting for the PSOE and their campaign, not for Pedro Sanchez. In Spain it's even reflected in the way you vote: you vote for a list of people, you can't even vote specifically for Pedro Sanchez. As for countries with elected presidents, France is probably the most similar to the US, and France's multi-party system really helps them out here. If Macron were a doddery old man who couldn't string two words together, the choice wouldn't be Macron or Le Pen, because one of them (or even both) would fail to get through the first round. Or maybe doddery Macron would get through the first round, showing that doddery old men are still popular enough with the general public. But that is a multi-party system with a two-round vote. The party leader is not in question in the first round, and it is part of the general election. You don't like who your party chose as their leader, you can easily vote for someone else. The US' system is inherently set up so that doesn't work. It's all broken. And that's why the primary seems so important.
Within the system you have, it's clear that changing Biden for Harris as the candidate is a big deal, but it really shouldn't be. The system is broken, and people keep bringing that up every time you have an election. But apparently not enough Americans believe their electoral system is broken for people to want to change it. Maybe this switcheroo will open a few more eyes and convince people to push for constitutional change?
I think one thing you are missing is that the new candidate is the VP, both current and nominated. Multiple VPs have stepped up in in the history of the US. The VP is a backup president, and there can be made arguments that the system works as intended if the VP is stepping during a campaign. Banners with the president candidate and VP in about equally big types is a common sight in the US which I have not seen anywhere else.
A majority of US voters wanting a constitutional change does not matter. Both of the parties benefit from the current system in different ways, and do not want to risk anything. Each state decides their own way to run elections too, so they are stuck with their terrible and unfair FPTP/EC/2-chamber/2-party system.
Why does it feel like the democrats pulled some trick?
Because they did. Changing candidates when the convention is in a couple of weeks? Having pledged delegates flip their votes within a matter of a couple of days? That literally does not happen. We're in uncharted territory here in terms of what is normal for an election.
We've had contested conventions before, but we've never had this exact thing happen.
The Republicans are spinning because they've never seen this before. They had money already wrapped up in anti-Biden ads, anti-Biden merchandise, they've been going over talking points for the last 6 months, cutting and editing film from his press conferences, all of the Hunter Biden shit they were going to bring back up during the general.
All of that is pretty much useless now. They have to start over.
I'm not saying what the Democrats did was under-handed or even deliberate this all looks like the result of Joe Biden pulling the wool over the eyes of the party until he wasn't able to be hidden anymore and the Democrats scrambling to respond to the public backlash. It's chaotic and messy because no one was prepared for it.
I'm still here fucking pissed off that it even got to this point because I thought Joe Biden shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and that the Democrats should have pressured him a lot harder not to, but they didn't and the Republicans were more than happy to let them walk into that trap.
Now they've pivoted much faster than anyone expected them to and the Republicans are scrambling to keep up.
I think the process was fair game legitimized by being the right decision considering how important the office is. Biden severely declined over the last months everyone could see it, that was foreseeable but not clear when he decided to run again.
Running for a second term is probably Bidens worst decision he ever made. Otherwise it was a pretty stellar presidency. Just saying this switcheroo will probably be more effective than choosing another candidate from the start, because of the reasons you mentionend. They are really struggling to find the right angle to attack Harris at the moment.
Maybe in terms of cut throat politics only it might be the right move, but in terms of doing right by your constituents, this entire election is doing nothing but making me a VERY frustrated voter.
This entire thing surrounding Biden dropping out of the race so late in the election has only dialed my distaste for the Democratic party up to 11.
I mean this with all sincerity, if it wasn't for how fucking abhorrent the Republicans are, I would absolutely love to cast a protest vote to punish the Democrats for what they did this year. They seemingly bypassed the entire primary process, even if it was done for the right reasons and even if it was done somewhat unintentionally the point is that they used the incumbment status of Joe Biden to push Kamala Harris in as the nominee without giving a fair chance for anyone to challenge her. That doesn't sit right with me, I feel like one of the only pieces of my vote that matters anymore just got taken away from me and not just this year but next election also.
That's just me, that is my testimony as a single non-partisan voter in California. I can't speak to how the rest of the electorate will respond to this, but people need to keep that in mind when talking about what a "shrewd" move this was.
What should they have done? Start an internal nomination speedrun 4 months before the election?
The way Biden pulled out was very embarrassing for the Democrats, but their only chance of winning was rallying behind another candidate ASAP. The VP was the obvious choice.
I am happy they seem to make the best of a bad situation. KH seems like a very decent human being, which should be enough to pull a lot of voters away from Trump.
The weird thing is that the party nomination is the "real" election here. It's quite unique to the US. In the UK, which is the most similar system, there are no nation-wide FFA primaries to decide who is the leader of labor/conservative parties. There's a vote among members, but there's no drawn out campaign. It's just a few people get nominated and then the members vote. The end. There is now a new party leader. Very little fuss.
Here in Spain, most parties have a similar system (the PP just have party elite choose the leader, because of course popularity is unimportant in the Popular Party), where there's a bunch of nominees, a quick election and bang, new leader.
The election is far more about the parties and far less about the people. The people obviously matter. Pedro Sanchez is a popular guy, and that helps the PSOE get votes. But realistically people are voting for the PSOE and their campaign, not for Pedro Sanchez. In Spain it's even reflected in the way you vote: you vote for a list of people, you can't even vote specifically for Pedro Sanchez. As for countries with elected presidents, France is probably the most similar to the US, and France's multi-party system really helps them out here. If Macron were a doddery old man who couldn't string two words together, the choice wouldn't be Macron or Le Pen, because one of them (or even both) would fail to get through the first round. Or maybe doddery Macron would get through the first round, showing that doddery old men are still popular enough with the general public. But that is a multi-party system with a two-round vote. The party leader is not in question in the first round, and it is part of the general election. You don't like who your party chose as their leader, you can easily vote for someone else. The US' system is inherently set up so that doesn't work. It's all broken. And that's why the primary seems so important.
Within the system you have, it's clear that changing Biden for Harris as the candidate is a big deal, but it really shouldn't be. The system is broken, and people keep bringing that up every time you have an election. But apparently not enough Americans believe their electoral system is broken for people to want to change it. Maybe this switcheroo will open a few more eyes and convince people to push for constitutional change?
I think one thing you are missing is that the new candidate is the VP, both current and nominated. Multiple VPs have stepped up in in the history of the US. The VP is a backup president, and there can be made arguments that the system works as intended if the VP is stepping during a campaign. Banners with the president candidate and VP in about equally big types is a common sight in the US which I have not seen anywhere else.
A majority of US voters wanting a constitutional change does not matter. Both of the parties benefit from the current system in different ways, and do not want to risk anything. Each state decides their own way to run elections too, so they are stuck with their terrible and unfair FPTP/EC/2-chamber/2-party system.
We've had Vice Presidents take over for Presidents when they've died in office or been forced to resign. We've NEVER had a Vice President take over for a President's re-election campaign 3 months from the actual election, oh btw while that President finishes out their term.
What's happening here is completely new territory for Vice Presidents. It's not comparable to anything VP's have done in the past.
As much as I'd prefer to see fair primaries being use to decide the party's nominee for president, I've gotta say, watching the MAGA folks' heads spin as they try to parse what the democrats are doing here is absolutely glorious. They are starting to realize how the democrats choose their nominee is not the republican party or MAGA group's business, but they don't like it.
At the end of the day, the election is no longer between doddering old man and racist grandpa. It is now about accomplished black woman Vs racist grandpa. Personally, this makes me feel far more hopeful about the election and even a little enthusiastic about the candidate.
I honestly don't understand why the Republicans are caught so off guard. While I'm sure a lot of them might have believed that Biden would never step down, surely they still should have prepared a contingency plan, just in case? Is it just because their singular plan of attack has been "crucify Biden for his age", and now that's not a point of vulnerability for Harris? Is it because they realize the Biden-Harris record is so much better than Trump's record? Since when do they care about political accomplishments though, because Trump's bread-and-butter are misogyny-and-racism, so why don't Republicans just play his greatest hits that resonate so well with his followers ("women are for sexual assaulting, not for leading the country!"; "maybe Kamala Harris was born in Kenya/India!"). Instead, even Trump and Fox News just seem completely befuddled. Maybe it's just hubris on their part.
They spend near a decade throwing dirt at Hillary, it took years before 'sleepy joe' started working and now they are 4 months out from the election with a new unexpected candidate and if they use the most obvious approach of 'black' and 'woman' they are going to push away a lot of more moderate voters that they need to actually win. Not to mention that all the time and energy spend on 'Biden is to old' is now redirecting into Trump.
EPT
