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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 02 2023 01:40 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 00:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 02 2023 00:26 BlackJack wrote:On July 01 2023 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:
In contrast, only 1.8% of Gen Z identify as transgender, which is the group that faces the vast majority of conservative backlash.
I would not phrase that as an "exploding" population, and so I'm not convinced by the argument that the level of discrimination as described by plasmidghost would have to be seen at every corner and captured by many cameras. I'd consider this argument highly fallacious due to a misrepresentation of the facts.
I'm really hoping one day we can fall less easily for the conservative tactic of mostly-factual-but-usually-contextless presentation of fallacious arguments. But I'm not holding my breath.
I've explained this before, what they're doing is called "quotemining". This is a manipulation tactic that creates a distorted reflection of reality with only a superficial level of "facts and logic" and leaves people far more misinformed than before.
Many conservatives do this very deliberately, and the rest of them fall for the misinformation due to their ideological bias, and so they spread it to all the social media and message boards out there, like this one on tl.net. Quite wrong. The explosion of transgenderism is even much higher than the explosion of LGBT as a whole. For example the amount of youth diagnosed with gender dysphoria and seeking gender affirming care has doubled in just a couple years. My initial post only claimed a doubling in LGBT over an entire generation. I think you will be hard pressed to find a mathematician that considers a doubling over a generation to be a faster “explosion” than a doubling over 2 years. The idea that I’m quotemining by talking about a doubling in LGBT over a generation when I could have been talking about a tripling or quadrupling in specifically the trans population is silly. This does not address my argument at all, you're only arguing over semantics. The explosion of LGBT population only relates to my argument that it’s absurd to repeatedly invoke genocide for an exploding population. It has nothing to do with the first paragraph of my post that if Nazis were going around beating up trans people in random attacks there should be a lot of film footage of this. The argument for that is the ubiquity of cameras in our society. Not just smart phones but business security cameras, Public transit cameras, traffic cameras, etc.
I'm not going to play this game with you. I know exactly what you said, you know exactly what you said. You're trying to worm your way out of a terrible misrepresentation of reality. You're denying the very accurate experience of an LGBTQ individual by saying "your posts have no basis in reality".
What you say is wrong, and on top of it you're contributing to the pain that LGBTQ individuals are experiencing by making them feel unwelcome in regular spaces. A gaming forum. A place created by people who tend to have somewhat of a desire for escapism. Geeks, nerds and long-time gamers should not be the people to deny the experiences of LGBTQ members. Some of us have experienced similar discrimination in our lives and we should be more sympathetic to them.
The fact of the matter is that transgender individuals in particular and generally members of the LGBTQ community are being assaulted at a much higher rate than cis people, and this is in spite of them having a strong in-group preference. 47% of transgender people are estimated to have been sexually assaulted. They're over four times more likely than cis people to face violence.
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On July 02 2023 02:34 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 01:40 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 00:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 02 2023 00:26 BlackJack wrote:On July 01 2023 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:
In contrast, only 1.8% of Gen Z identify as transgender, which is the group that faces the vast majority of conservative backlash.
I would not phrase that as an "exploding" population, and so I'm not convinced by the argument that the level of discrimination as described by plasmidghost would have to be seen at every corner and captured by many cameras. I'd consider this argument highly fallacious due to a misrepresentation of the facts.
I'm really hoping one day we can fall less easily for the conservative tactic of mostly-factual-but-usually-contextless presentation of fallacious arguments. But I'm not holding my breath.
I've explained this before, what they're doing is called "quotemining". This is a manipulation tactic that creates a distorted reflection of reality with only a superficial level of "facts and logic" and leaves people far more misinformed than before.
Many conservatives do this very deliberately, and the rest of them fall for the misinformation due to their ideological bias, and so they spread it to all the social media and message boards out there, like this one on tl.net. Quite wrong. The explosion of transgenderism is even much higher than the explosion of LGBT as a whole. For example the amount of youth diagnosed with gender dysphoria and seeking gender affirming care has doubled in just a couple years. My initial post only claimed a doubling in LGBT over an entire generation. I think you will be hard pressed to find a mathematician that considers a doubling over a generation to be a faster “explosion” than a doubling over 2 years. The idea that I’m quotemining by talking about a doubling in LGBT over a generation when I could have been talking about a tripling or quadrupling in specifically the trans population is silly. This does not address my argument at all, you're only arguing over semantics. The explosion of LGBT population only relates to my argument that it’s absurd to repeatedly invoke genocide for an exploding population. It has nothing to do with the first paragraph of my post that if Nazis were going around beating up trans people in random attacks there should be a lot of film footage of this. The argument for that is the ubiquity of cameras in our society. Not just smart phones but business security cameras, Public transit cameras, traffic cameras, etc. I'm not going to play this game with you. I know exactly what you said, you know exactly what you said. You're trying to worm your way out of a terrible misrepresentation of reality. You're denying the very accurate experience of an LGBTQ individual by saying "your posts have no basis in reality". What you say is wrong, and on top of it you're contributing to the pain that LGBTQ individuals are experiencing by making them feel unwelcome in regular spaces. A gaming forum. A place created by people who tend to have somewhat of a desire for escapism. Geeks, nerds and long-time gamers should not be the people to deny the experiences of LGBTQ members. Some of us have experienced similar discrimination in our lives and we should be more sympathetic to them. The fact of the matter is that transgender individuals in particular and generally members of the LGBTQ community are being assaulted at a much higher rate than cis people, and this is in spite of them having a strong in-group preference. 47% of transgender people are estimated to have been sexually assaulted. They're over four times more likely than cis people to face violence.
Give it a rest. Everyone that posts here is expected to back up their claims. Whether it’s trans people experiencing genocide, the United States being a police state, trans kids being ripped from the arms of their loving parents etc., plasmid often makes these bold claims with little evidence other than what they’ve supposedly read from unnamed people on Twitter. If I made claims backed up by unnamed tweets there would be a line of people waiting to admonish me. Not only does nobody here challenge anything they say but now evidently someone that does challenge it needs to be shot down immediately for “contributing to the pain of LGBTQ individuals.” Ridiculous.
See the difference between you and me is that I treat plasmid like I would anyone else and you want to treat them with kid’s gloves and give them special treatment by not challenging anything they post. It’s incredibly patronizing and also super typical of the type of savior attitudes people on the left have to any marginalized group.
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On July 02 2023 02:56 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 02:34 Magic Powers wrote:On July 02 2023 01:40 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 00:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 02 2023 00:26 BlackJack wrote:On July 01 2023 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:
In contrast, only 1.8% of Gen Z identify as transgender, which is the group that faces the vast majority of conservative backlash.
I would not phrase that as an "exploding" population, and so I'm not convinced by the argument that the level of discrimination as described by plasmidghost would have to be seen at every corner and captured by many cameras. I'd consider this argument highly fallacious due to a misrepresentation of the facts.
I'm really hoping one day we can fall less easily for the conservative tactic of mostly-factual-but-usually-contextless presentation of fallacious arguments. But I'm not holding my breath.
I've explained this before, what they're doing is called "quotemining". This is a manipulation tactic that creates a distorted reflection of reality with only a superficial level of "facts and logic" and leaves people far more misinformed than before.
Many conservatives do this very deliberately, and the rest of them fall for the misinformation due to their ideological bias, and so they spread it to all the social media and message boards out there, like this one on tl.net. Quite wrong. The explosion of transgenderism is even much higher than the explosion of LGBT as a whole. For example the amount of youth diagnosed with gender dysphoria and seeking gender affirming care has doubled in just a couple years. My initial post only claimed a doubling in LGBT over an entire generation. I think you will be hard pressed to find a mathematician that considers a doubling over a generation to be a faster “explosion” than a doubling over 2 years. The idea that I’m quotemining by talking about a doubling in LGBT over a generation when I could have been talking about a tripling or quadrupling in specifically the trans population is silly. This does not address my argument at all, you're only arguing over semantics. The explosion of LGBT population only relates to my argument that it’s absurd to repeatedly invoke genocide for an exploding population. It has nothing to do with the first paragraph of my post that if Nazis were going around beating up trans people in random attacks there should be a lot of film footage of this. The argument for that is the ubiquity of cameras in our society. Not just smart phones but business security cameras, Public transit cameras, traffic cameras, etc. I'm not going to play this game with you. I know exactly what you said, you know exactly what you said. You're trying to worm your way out of a terrible misrepresentation of reality. You're denying the very accurate experience of an LGBTQ individual by saying "your posts have no basis in reality". What you say is wrong, and on top of it you're contributing to the pain that LGBTQ individuals are experiencing by making them feel unwelcome in regular spaces. A gaming forum. A place created by people who tend to have somewhat of a desire for escapism. Geeks, nerds and long-time gamers should not be the people to deny the experiences of LGBTQ members. Some of us have experienced similar discrimination in our lives and we should be more sympathetic to them. The fact of the matter is that transgender individuals in particular and generally members of the LGBTQ community are being assaulted at a much higher rate than cis people, and this is in spite of them having a strong in-group preference. 47% of transgender people are estimated to have been sexually assaulted. They're over four times more likely than cis people to face violence. Give it a rest. Everyone that posts here is expected to back up their claims. Whether it’s trans people experiencing genocide, the United States being a police state, trans kids being ripped from the arms of their loving parents etc., plasmid often makes these bold claims with little evidence other than what they’ve supposedly read from unnamed people on Twitter. If I made claims backed up by unnamed tweets there would be a line of people waiting to admonish me. Not only does nobody here challenge anything they say but now evidently someone that does challenge it needs to be shot down immediately for “contributing to the pain of LGBTQ individuals.” Ridiculous. See the difference between you and me is that I treat plasmid like I would anyone else and you want to treat them with kid’s gloves and give them special treatment by not challenging anything they post. It’s incredibly patronizing and also super typical of the type of savior attitudes people on the left have to any marginalized group.
I sometimes question if I should treat you with kid gloves because it's quite clear to me that you value your (often demonstrably false) opinions higher than the disproportional suffering of an entire demographic of people, and that to me is a sign of a very immature mind that needs special attention and care.
You don't seem to have read anything about the psychology of discrimination and/or abuse. If a person faces some sort of abuse/neglect on a more frequent basis than other people do, they respond disproportionately to it due to self-preservation. Milder forms of abuse/neglect and general discrimination become more noticable and more painful to them than they would to other not-so-abused people. This is a function of the human psyche that protects us from harm: if we're exponentially hurt by a threat, we have to respond more strongly to potential future threats, and that can result in responding more strongly to non-threats as well. We become anxious faster, we act exponentially more defensive, we may also act more aggressively, we have more frequent negative thought patterns, etc.
Thus if we're abused four times as much as the average person, we don't just feel four times the abuse, we carry this over into other aspects of our lives. It causes us to shelter at home instead of going out, it causes us to develop nervous thoughts and behaviors, it causes us to have more irrational fears than healthy people do, etc.
The emotional harm that LGBTQ individuals experience is not being exaggerated. It's a function of the psychology of abuse, neglect and discrimination.
I know this from first-hand experience because I myself have also been abused and neglected as a child for many years. I can attest to the fact that for many years I was afraid of men who had a similar face, or clothing, or manners or tone of voice as my dad. Any of those cues immediately triggered my anxiety. It was normal for me. And to this day I carry various types of anxiety with me without even noticing it, it's a completely normal part of my life. I failed to notice other anxieties I had because I was so used to having them.
And I'm a cis white male. I'm highly privileged in my own country. If this can happen to me, with me not having to be afraid of my fellow citizens, I can only wonder how much worse the anxieties must be for the people of a discriminated minority group.
Please don't tell me about how people exaggerate their experiences. You don't seem to know the first thing about it.
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Northern Ireland24945 Posts
On July 02 2023 01:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 00:14 Sermokala wrote:On July 01 2023 20:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2023 20:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 01 2023 20:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2023 19:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 01 2023 18:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2023 09:38 Mohdoo wrote:On July 01 2023 08:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2023 07:44 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
If anything, what we have learned is that whoever happens to be sitting in the president's chair at the time of a supreme court justice dying is the most important parameter in american politics. Voting dem, regardless of who, has only become further ingrained. Let's say some fiery socialist dem won in 2020 instead. We just learned their student loan forgiveness would have been shot down.
All that matters right now is the supreme court. Abortion, student loans, affirmative action, all of the hot button items are just settled by the court. So all you can really do is camp out the chair for the next time one needs to be replaced. Realistically speaking, you're looking at more than a decade before that has a possibility of paying off and hoping Sotomayor retires at a favorable time, unlike RBG. Losing the presidency just once in the next 3-6 cycles (or failing to fill a vacancy again) could easily extend the time horizon for a SCOTUS that isn't stripping people of bodily autonomy, voting rights, etc. into several decades away. All that assumes the fashy insurrectionist that's polling ahead of Biden and/or his proteges/supporters don't destroy US democracy in the intervening decade(s). "You'll lose even more rights even faster if you don't elect us!" isn't exactly an inspirational message to carry you through several must win elections in a row. What do you see as the way of breaking the impact the supreme court has? What can a progressive candidate do that isn't vulnerable to the supreme court deciding they disagree? As gobbledy points out there's adding Justices. Even if Republicans just do it back when they win, at least then it's a back and forth instead of one loss costing you a decade+ on top of the decade+ it seems people will already have to wait to get their rights back (and maybe stop losing them). That would also require Congressional Republicans to allow Biden / Dem presidents to add more SCJs though, right? Unless Dems completely controlled both the legislative and executive branches? I'm thinking about how Garland just simply wasn't allowed to even be considered by Republicans. Biden can't just unilaterally decide to add more SCJs *and* appoint them without Congressional approval, right? I mean I think it's a game of calvinball on the deck of the Titanic, but probably. That said, paired with a modern New Deal (ideally, less racist and such) even just a sincere fighting effort against a pretty unpopular court (and anyone else standing in the way of popular&pragmatic policies like public healthcare) could yield huge results. I agree. It's better than nothing! Unfortunately Democrats aren't going to do even that much. It's pretty much just "cross your fingers, close your eyes, pull the lever, and hope it's not your dignity/rights/life on the chopping block next (putting aside indefinitely those you've already lost and/or never had)" Which, to be honest, isn't so much new as it is naked and increasingly encompassing people that thought they were safe. You should then go back to socialisms true home in America and support Minnesota politicians. They at least remember how to fight for change and get things done even with small margins. Klobuchar is never happening and socialists will never like her if for no other reason than she's a notoriously nightmarish boss to her workers. That aside, I don't believe it is a matter of memory or knowing better how to eke out momentary crumbs anyway (assuming this wasn't just empty rhetoric). Any socialist leader worth their salt will probably just be thrown in prison by the US government like Debs or assassinated by them like Fred Hampton. Basically the only hope as I see it is Democrats under 40ish rejecting Dem leadership's plan to just have them wait 10-20+ years to maybe get their rights back (but much more likely just lose them slower) and Dem leadership to get behind (or at least out of the way) of a revolutionary movement. As we learned in 2016 though, Democrats would rather lose to someone like Trump than even a social democrat like Bernie Sanders, let alone a full blown socialist. Because when you look past some superficial appeals from them to various marginalized groups, they politically align better with Republicans than socialists.
I don’t think that’s entirely fair
Democrats may have had their preferred candidates, given largely they’re an incredibly status quo incrementalist party.
They didn’t rather lose to Trump than pick Sanders though. There was no real expectation that Clinton could possibly lose to Trump.
A miscalculation perhaps, but a miscalculation nonetheless. I don’t think all that many were motivated by ‘well we get Trump but at least we don’t get Sanders’
Broadly I agree though with your analysis
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Northern Ireland24945 Posts
On July 02 2023 02:56 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 02:34 Magic Powers wrote:On July 02 2023 01:40 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 00:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 02 2023 00:26 BlackJack wrote:On July 01 2023 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:
In contrast, only 1.8% of Gen Z identify as transgender, which is the group that faces the vast majority of conservative backlash.
I would not phrase that as an "exploding" population, and so I'm not convinced by the argument that the level of discrimination as described by plasmidghost would have to be seen at every corner and captured by many cameras. I'd consider this argument highly fallacious due to a misrepresentation of the facts.
I'm really hoping one day we can fall less easily for the conservative tactic of mostly-factual-but-usually-contextless presentation of fallacious arguments. But I'm not holding my breath.
I've explained this before, what they're doing is called "quotemining". This is a manipulation tactic that creates a distorted reflection of reality with only a superficial level of "facts and logic" and leaves people far more misinformed than before.
Many conservatives do this very deliberately, and the rest of them fall for the misinformation due to their ideological bias, and so they spread it to all the social media and message boards out there, like this one on tl.net. Quite wrong. The explosion of transgenderism is even much higher than the explosion of LGBT as a whole. For example the amount of youth diagnosed with gender dysphoria and seeking gender affirming care has doubled in just a couple years. My initial post only claimed a doubling in LGBT over an entire generation. I think you will be hard pressed to find a mathematician that considers a doubling over a generation to be a faster “explosion” than a doubling over 2 years. The idea that I’m quotemining by talking about a doubling in LGBT over a generation when I could have been talking about a tripling or quadrupling in specifically the trans population is silly. This does not address my argument at all, you're only arguing over semantics. The explosion of LGBT population only relates to my argument that it’s absurd to repeatedly invoke genocide for an exploding population. It has nothing to do with the first paragraph of my post that if Nazis were going around beating up trans people in random attacks there should be a lot of film footage of this. The argument for that is the ubiquity of cameras in our society. Not just smart phones but business security cameras, Public transit cameras, traffic cameras, etc. I'm not going to play this game with you. I know exactly what you said, you know exactly what you said. You're trying to worm your way out of a terrible misrepresentation of reality. You're denying the very accurate experience of an LGBTQ individual by saying "your posts have no basis in reality". What you say is wrong, and on top of it you're contributing to the pain that LGBTQ individuals are experiencing by making them feel unwelcome in regular spaces. A gaming forum. A place created by people who tend to have somewhat of a desire for escapism. Geeks, nerds and long-time gamers should not be the people to deny the experiences of LGBTQ members. Some of us have experienced similar discrimination in our lives and we should be more sympathetic to them. The fact of the matter is that transgender individuals in particular and generally members of the LGBTQ community are being assaulted at a much higher rate than cis people, and this is in spite of them having a strong in-group preference. 47% of transgender people are estimated to have been sexually assaulted. They're over four times more likely than cis people to face violence. Give it a rest. Everyone that posts here is expected to back up their claims. Whether it’s trans people experiencing genocide, the United States being a police state, trans kids being ripped from the arms of their loving parents etc., plasmid often makes these bold claims with little evidence other than what they’ve supposedly read from unnamed people on Twitter. If I made claims backed up by unnamed tweets there would be a line of people waiting to admonish me. Not only does nobody here challenge anything they say but now evidently someone that does challenge it needs to be shot down immediately for “contributing to the pain of LGBTQ individuals.” Ridiculous. See the difference between you and me is that I treat plasmid like I would anyone else and you want to treat them with kid’s gloves and give them special treatment by not challenging anything they post. It’s incredibly patronizing and also super typical of the type of savior attitudes people on the left have to any marginalized group.
There’s a line of people waiting to admonish you because of a history of incredibly disingenuous posting and nothing else.
Plasmid literally emigrated because of their perception of trans attitudes and the ramping up of anti-trans rhetoric in their locale, and nation-wide
You, nor me have any particular skin in that game or any experience of it. I’m happy I don’t, I don’t feel I deserve it, it’s an accident of birth who I am, but thank fuck I’m not trans.
You apply a less skeptical eye to trans panic stories than you do to the stated experiences of an actual trans person.
But hey let’s not pretend this is anything new and you don’t consistently try to demonstrate you’re the smartest, most enlightened and neutral person in the room through a full cavalcade of bullshit argumentative techniques.
Which like 60% of the thread can pick but Drone professes ignorance to for some reason
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@BJ: Idk why you’ve always been so hostile to plasmid. The only one who gets a similar level of vitriol from you is, like, JimmiC, and that was only after months of a concerted anti-BJ campaign from him.
On the issue at hand, you’re giving a total non sequitur; if I say “there’s rapidly rising anti-trans sentiment in the population that’s already causing a lot of suffering and could easily culminate in mass violence,” and you respond “more people are self-identifying as trans than ever,” you get how those are unrelated statements, right? They could both be true, or both be false, or one might be true but not the other, but in any case you haven’t refuted anything, or even offered something responsive.
Being off the mark is one thing. You’re extremely dismissive in the process, as though you’ve uttered some devastating mic drop refutation, rather than a non sequitur. This, in direct response to a person who is expressing the anguish they’ve experienced as a result of that rising anti-trans sentiment? A person who has pretty dramatically upturned their life trying to avoid the same? That’s pretty fucking rude if you ask me.
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Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid.
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On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid.
Allow me to repost something.
Also this.
On February 19 2023 08:40 plasmidghost wrote:
Fuck, it actually happened. Abbott has already shown his support for this and it will most likely pass. I will never willingly return to Texas at this rate
Allow me to also mention that plasmidghost has not made a reference to Jews, a genocide, or WW2 in this thread over the last six months. I don't know their entire posting history, but to me it doesn't seem like a good faith representation of their claims, certainly not of the ones posted more recently.
If however a claim of genocide were to be made (which it wasn't), I think this excerpt from an older post from plasmidghost could perhaps qualify:
"Every single one of my trans friends hates it in the UK and is trying to get out. I've already lost so many friends to suicide from the absolute cruelty perpetuated in [the UK], including manufactured healthcare waitlists of over seven years."
Not a direct accusation against the state of the UK, but a highly upsetting bit of information of systemic and/or cultural anti-trans issues in the country. For a personal comparison, I haven't lost a single friend or family member or colleague to suicide in my entire 37 years on this planet.
I don't know what to say about this. What is your take, BJ? Do you think plasmidghost's complaints seem valid?
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On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid.
Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up?
There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now.
If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia.
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On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia.
I can easily find examples of comparisons made between trans people and Jews as they relate to the holocaust.
https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27957192
https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27961754
https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27955395
If you make posts without sources and use yourself as an authority on the matter then its reasonable to expect people to consider your credibility on the matter. It also makes other times where you’ve made claims that were wrong e.g. trans kids being removed from homes, relevant. If you made posts about chemistry and relied on your credibility as a chemist then it’s not a non-sequitur or irrelevant if I bring up an old post of yours where you thought Oxygen was the first element on the periodic table.
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On July 02 2023 08:42 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia. I can easily find examples of comparisons made between trans people and Jews as they relate to the holocaust. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27957192https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27961754https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27955395If you make posts without sources and use yourself as an authority on the matter then its reasonable to expect people to consider your credibility on the matter. It also makes other times where you’ve made claims that were wrong e.g. trans kids being removed from homes, relevant. If you made posts about chemistry and relied on your credibility as a chemist then it’s not a non-sequitur or irrelevant if I bring up an old post of yours where you thought Oxygen was the first element on the periodic table.
Okay, fuck me, go read those three posts and tell me if you think any of them are fairly summarized as “what trans people are experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2.”
As I recall PG said trans families were having their kids taken away, and it turned out that while Abbot and DeSantis *were* instructing CPS to investigate those families, and CPS had complied – an unambiguous threat to take away their kids, which forces them to start figuring out their legal options if that were to happen – no kids had actually been taken away. I further recall PG was apologetic and conciliatory on being corrected, something I don’t think I’ve seen from you in my life. Of course, maybe they were just apologetic and conciliatory because you were calling for mod action, even though their only offense was posting in the thread about what they had heard elsewhere on the internet (in other words, what every other poster does, including you).
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On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia.
In a vacuum, it's fine to say that in a discussion forum people should expect some level of rigor. In practice, you end up coming across like a dick when you appoint yourself as gatekeeper of factual debate, forbid any emotions from anyone participating in the discussion, and demand research receipts for everything. Among other things, this is what got people irritated to hell and back with Danglars, now banned. He burned all the good will in any discussion because people were instantly wrong to have any strong feelings on a subject, and being wrong, they needed to be condescended to and patronized accordingly.
Here we have an actual trans woman relaying her experiences in the US, which were so bad she had to leave the country, and describing how she feels regarding LGBTQ+ developments in the US. If you're interested in understanding people with differing viewpoints to yourself, this is the part where you shut up and listen, and give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know the first thing they're talking about.
Blackjack instead jumped on it as an opportunity to question the validity of her feelings, and argue that she can't possibly be justified in feeling the way she feels because it isn't backed up by data that he likes. Way to make her point there, my dude.
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On July 02 2023 09:18 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 08:42 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia. I can easily find examples of comparisons made between trans people and Jews as they relate to the holocaust. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27957192https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27961754https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27955395If you make posts without sources and use yourself as an authority on the matter then its reasonable to expect people to consider your credibility on the matter. It also makes other times where you’ve made claims that were wrong e.g. trans kids being removed from homes, relevant. If you made posts about chemistry and relied on your credibility as a chemist then it’s not a non-sequitur or irrelevant if I bring up an old post of yours where you thought Oxygen was the first element on the periodic table. Okay, fuck me, go read those three posts and tell me if you think any of them are fairly summarized as “what trans people are experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2.” As I recall PG said trans families were having their kids taken away, and it turned out that while Abbot and DeSantis *were* instructing CPS to investigate those families, and CPS had complied – an unambiguous threat to take away their kids, which forces them to start figuring out their legal options if that were to happen – no kids had actually been taken away. I further recall PG was apologetic and conciliatory on being corrected, something I don’t think I’ve seen from you in my life. Of course, maybe they were just apologetic and conciliatory because you were calling for mod action, even though their only offense was posting in the thread about what they had heard elsewhere on the internet (in other words, what every other poster does, including you).
I actually wasn’t calling for mod action. What I said was
If an anti-vaxxer said that they were starting to round up the unvaccinated to take to Mohdoo Island and their source for that was "people on twitter that they trust" they probably would have some action taken on them by the mods.
Which is pointing out a double standard and something I do all the time here and hardly specific to plasmid. Anybody that knows my posting knows that I’d argue AGAINST this type of stuff being actioned.
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On July 02 2023 12:31 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 09:18 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 08:42 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia. I can easily find examples of comparisons made between trans people and Jews as they relate to the holocaust. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27957192https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27961754https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27955395If you make posts without sources and use yourself as an authority on the matter then its reasonable to expect people to consider your credibility on the matter. It also makes other times where you’ve made claims that were wrong e.g. trans kids being removed from homes, relevant. If you made posts about chemistry and relied on your credibility as a chemist then it’s not a non-sequitur or irrelevant if I bring up an old post of yours where you thought Oxygen was the first element on the periodic table. Okay, fuck me, go read those three posts and tell me if you think any of them are fairly summarized as “what trans people are experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2.” As I recall PG said trans families were having their kids taken away, and it turned out that while Abbot and DeSantis *were* instructing CPS to investigate those families, and CPS had complied – an unambiguous threat to take away their kids, which forces them to start figuring out their legal options if that were to happen – no kids had actually been taken away. I further recall PG was apologetic and conciliatory on being corrected, something I don’t think I’ve seen from you in my life. Of course, maybe they were just apologetic and conciliatory because you were calling for mod action, even though their only offense was posting in the thread about what they had heard elsewhere on the internet (in other words, what every other poster does, including you). I actually wasn’t calling for mod action. What I said was Show nested quote + If an anti-vaxxer said that they were starting to round up the unvaccinated to take to Mohdoo Island and their source for that was "people on twitter that they trust" they probably would have some action taken on them by the mods. Which is pointing out a double standard and something I do all the time here and hardly specific to plasmid. Anybody that knows my posting knows that I’d argue AGAINST this type of stuff being actioned.
Sure, I’ll take your word for it. Like I said, “That seems like the kind of post that might typically get mod action” is a thing I’ve only seen you say in regards to PG and JimmiC, didn’t realize “and i think that would be bad” was implied.
I mean it, by the way. Go read those three posts you linked. They’re short. Do you actually think “trans people are experiencing the same thing as European Jews in WW2” is a fair summary of any of them?
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On July 02 2023 10:10 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia. In a vacuum, it's fine to say that in a discussion forum people should expect some level of rigor. In practice, you end up coming across like a dick when you appoint yourself as gatekeeper of factual debate, forbid any emotions from anyone participating in the discussion, and demand research receipts for everything. Among other things, this is what got people irritated to hell and back with Danglars, now banned. He burned all the good will in any discussion because people were instantly wrong to have any strong feelings on a subject, and being wrong, they needed to be condescended to and patronized accordingly. Here we have an actual trans woman relaying her experiences in the US, which were so bad she had to leave the country, and describing how she feels regarding LGBTQ+ developments in the US. If you're interested in understanding people with differing viewpoints to yourself, this is the part where you shut up and listen, and give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know the first thing they're talking about. Blackjack instead jumped on it as an opportunity to question the validity of her feelings, and argue that she can't possibly be justified in feeling the way she feels because it isn't backed up by data that he likes. Way to make her point there, my dude.
Calling the US a police state and saying the conservative base is cheering on Nazis assaulting trans people is not “relaying a personal experience.” If you want to relay a personal experience and be free of criticism it can be done in Blogs. If you want to say scurrilous things about a group of people or a country in the Politics thread people have a right to question it. It’s one or the other. To be fair plasmid isn’t even the one using their identify to deflect criticism of their claims, that’s what other people are doing for them.
This is everything that’s wrong with political discourse in this country. People in this thread thinking it’s fine and dandy to attack conservatives as Nazi-loving transphobes and then use identity politics to shut down any disagreement.
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On July 02 2023 12:39 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 12:31 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 09:18 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 08:42 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia. I can easily find examples of comparisons made between trans people and Jews as they relate to the holocaust. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27957192https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27961754https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27955395If you make posts without sources and use yourself as an authority on the matter then its reasonable to expect people to consider your credibility on the matter. It also makes other times where you’ve made claims that were wrong e.g. trans kids being removed from homes, relevant. If you made posts about chemistry and relied on your credibility as a chemist then it’s not a non-sequitur or irrelevant if I bring up an old post of yours where you thought Oxygen was the first element on the periodic table. Okay, fuck me, go read those three posts and tell me if you think any of them are fairly summarized as “what trans people are experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2.” As I recall PG said trans families were having their kids taken away, and it turned out that while Abbot and DeSantis *were* instructing CPS to investigate those families, and CPS had complied – an unambiguous threat to take away their kids, which forces them to start figuring out their legal options if that were to happen – no kids had actually been taken away. I further recall PG was apologetic and conciliatory on being corrected, something I don’t think I’ve seen from you in my life. Of course, maybe they were just apologetic and conciliatory because you were calling for mod action, even though their only offense was posting in the thread about what they had heard elsewhere on the internet (in other words, what every other poster does, including you). I actually wasn’t calling for mod action. What I said was If an anti-vaxxer said that they were starting to round up the unvaccinated to take to Mohdoo Island and their source for that was "people on twitter that they trust" they probably would have some action taken on them by the mods. Which is pointing out a double standard and something I do all the time here and hardly specific to plasmid. Anybody that knows my posting knows that I’d argue AGAINST this type of stuff being actioned. Sure, I’ll take your word for it. Like I said, “That seems like the kind of post that might typically get mod action” is a thing I’ve only seen you say in regards to PG and JimmiC, didn’t realize “and i think that would be bad” was implied. I mean it, by the way. Go read those three posts you linked. They’re short. Do you actually think “trans people are experiencing the same thing as European Jews in WW2” is a fair summary of any of them?
Obviously not the extermination part but things like having to wear a star or being banished to ghettos, yes I can easily see that as the intention of the posts. You would have to ask Plasmid what specifically about the experience of Jews during WW2 is so relatable to trans experience in modern America that causes them to repeatedly use that metaphor, don’t you think?
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On July 02 2023 12:51 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2023 12:39 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 12:31 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 09:18 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 08:42 BlackJack wrote:On July 02 2023 07:01 ChristianS wrote:On July 02 2023 06:31 BlackJack wrote:
Whether or not you feel like what you’re experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2 doesn’t make it objectively true. If pointing out absurdist statements as having “no basis in reality” counts as vitriol then I’m guilty as charged. If you want to vent about your lived experience of being persecuted that’s for the Blogs section. If you want to make bold statements like conservatives are celebrating Nazis that beat trans people or the US is a police state in the Politics thread you should expect people to disagree. Plasmids response to Drone is far more of a non sequitur than my post to Plasmid. Did I miss “the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2” or are you making that up? There’s plenty in plasmid’s post I’m not convinced is true, that’s not what I’m calling vitriolic. It’s shit like “the last time you posted here” and then dragging out an old argument you had – an argument in which, if I remember correctly, you demanded evidence of a claim or else you thought mod action was needed. I thought you were coming on too strong then, and said so; I definitely think you’re coming on too strong now. If you still want evidence, by the way, here, I googled it and found a study. I won’t pretend I have the skills to evaluate that study critically – crime statistics are absolutely not my area – but I will say what I’ve heard from a couple trans friends is that random hostility from strangers is not uncommon, it’s getting worse, and the way they talk is increasingly dehumanizing. And that’s in places like CA, Seattle, or Portland. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be trans in the middle of Idaho or Florida or West Virginia. I can easily find examples of comparisons made between trans people and Jews as they relate to the holocaust. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27957192https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27961754https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27955395If you make posts without sources and use yourself as an authority on the matter then its reasonable to expect people to consider your credibility on the matter. It also makes other times where you’ve made claims that were wrong e.g. trans kids being removed from homes, relevant. If you made posts about chemistry and relied on your credibility as a chemist then it’s not a non-sequitur or irrelevant if I bring up an old post of yours where you thought Oxygen was the first element on the periodic table. Okay, fuck me, go read those three posts and tell me if you think any of them are fairly summarized as “what trans people are experiencing is the same as what European Jews experienced in WW2.” As I recall PG said trans families were having their kids taken away, and it turned out that while Abbot and DeSantis *were* instructing CPS to investigate those families, and CPS had complied – an unambiguous threat to take away their kids, which forces them to start figuring out their legal options if that were to happen – no kids had actually been taken away. I further recall PG was apologetic and conciliatory on being corrected, something I don’t think I’ve seen from you in my life. Of course, maybe they were just apologetic and conciliatory because you were calling for mod action, even though their only offense was posting in the thread about what they had heard elsewhere on the internet (in other words, what every other poster does, including you). I actually wasn’t calling for mod action. What I said was If an anti-vaxxer said that they were starting to round up the unvaccinated to take to Mohdoo Island and their source for that was "people on twitter that they trust" they probably would have some action taken on them by the mods. Which is pointing out a double standard and something I do all the time here and hardly specific to plasmid. Anybody that knows my posting knows that I’d argue AGAINST this type of stuff being actioned. Sure, I’ll take your word for it. Like I said, “That seems like the kind of post that might typically get mod action” is a thing I’ve only seen you say in regards to PG and JimmiC, didn’t realize “and i think that would be bad” was implied. I mean it, by the way. Go read those three posts you linked. They’re short. Do you actually think “trans people are experiencing the same thing as European Jews in WW2” is a fair summary of any of them? Obviously not the extermination part but things like having to wear a star or being banished to ghettos, yes I can easily see that as the intention of the posts. You would have to ask Plasmid what specifically about the experience of Jews during WW2 is so relatable to trans experience in modern America that causes them to repeatedly use that metaphor, don’t you think?
I mean I always thought it was pretty clear the analogy was “right wing thought leaders are fearmongering and dehumanizing a minority group and blaming them for society’s problems, in a way that is likely to lead to bigotry at a minimum and possibly mass violence down the line.” I don’t think that’s the same as saying “what I’ve gone through is basically Auschwitz” which is what your phrasing pretty clearly implies.
Like, you often hear about a period some time in the 30s when astute political observers would have said “hey, if you’re Jewish you’d better get out of Germany ASAP, because in a couple years it might be too late.” That’s pretty clearly the kind of idea PG is expressing. That might be right or wrong (I’m certainly more optimistic than they are), but you get how saying “well we don’t have any concentration camps right now so you’re delusional” isn’t actually responsive to the claim? Same for “there’s more trans people than there used to be therefore you’re delusional.” I mean, you see someone anguished and apocalyptic about what they think a SCOTUS decision means for their community; why would you divebomb in so hyper-aggro and half-cocked like that?
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What European Jews experienced during WW2 is certainly not what plasmidghost compared their own experience to. The holocaust took place between 1941 and 1945. The comparison was to the "build-up" to that, which I find apt. "Throwing trans people to the fascists" is quite accurate when you understand that a proto-fascist was in power in the US until recently.
For someone who is so into being "factual" and "substantiating" claims, to this day I still don't get the impression that BJ is holding himself to his own standard. Not sufficiently so to explain his rather hostile attitude when other people aren't always literally pitch perfect with their factual claims.
BJ loves to be hyper-precise to the point of absurdity, disingenuousness and grammatical falsehood when it comes to others, while playing fast and loose with his own misrepresentation of other people's views. This double standard alone is bad, but couple it with the hostile attitude towards one of the most marginalized groups (not just any of these groups, but literally the one facing some of the worst discrimination in the whole world). I don't consider it surprising at all that there's backlash to his comments and horrible argumentation tactics.
Furthermore, plasmidghost provided actual evidence of pro-Nazi protests being tolerated in countries where that should not be the case. In Austria you go to jail for that.
For BJ it is somehow more important to misrepresent a transgender person's claims than to acknowledge the evidence they have presented for their claims. Because for BJ to remember someone's posting history or to sift through it and deliberately quotemine the parts that superficially support BJ's accusation while ignoring the more recent parts that substantiate plasmid's claims about fascism can at this point only be explained with malice, and not incompetence, in my humble opinion.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/P5wz2CT.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/pO2zSqb.jpg)
