Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On August 17 2022 16:22 StasisField wrote: As I said earlier, I don't like Liz Cheney, her father, or what the Cheney family stands for in America. That being said, I do prefer Liz Cheney over a Trump nut. Why? Because Liz Cheney showed she at least has a limit on how far she's willing to watch the country slide into fascism. Trump-backed candidates and Trump supporters have not shown to have such a limit. If you think the 2020 election was stolen based on absolutely no evidence and you want Trump to return to power in the White House, then you are directly opposed to democracy and reason as far as I'm concerned, and that makes you an enemy to the country and an enemy to me, my family, and my loved ones. I'm not going to celebrate taking a step closer to living in a Christo-Fascist state under Trump rule.
The word fascism and its meaning has become so different from what it used to mean, people using the word fascism when it comes to Trump have never experienced fascism.
When you have an administration blatantly disregarding the constitution and openly saying they don’t care about the constitution (paraphrasing here), it’s not far fetched to call this administration’s direction a direction into totalitarianism, not to mention a flavour of dictatorial behaviour.
As I said earlier, a lot of people prefer Trump as a lesser evil.
So, what should we call people approving totalitarianism with a flavour of dictatorialism? Doesn’t sound better than voting for Trump if you ask me.
WTF are you talking about? Trump is the one who ignores the constitution. The whole January 6th thing is all about Trump trying to circumvent the constitution. Perhaps you should have paid attention to those hearings so you wouldn't be quite so ignorant.
He's also the one who, on tape, demanded that a secretary of state fabricate votes for him. If you didn't know, that's illegal. It also shows that he's trying to become a dictator who doesn't care about the vote.
OAN, Fox News, and right wing radio are lying to you. Get out of your bubble.
Except I don’t pay any attention to those channels. Why are you trying to deflect though?
Deflect what? Biden is a very normal US president. His administration is being run just like every other administration in my lifetime, Republican or Democrat, with the exception of Trump.
Find where someone in the administration says "they don't care about the constitution" or your paraphrase of it.
You claim that as some evil. So I'm going to point out that the "lesser evil" Trump is the one who actually took action to circumvent the constitution. That's not deflection, that's directly countering your point.
Get out of your bubble.
Just so you know, even trying to pass a law that is in direct opposition of the constitution can be considered (and should be) a violation of their oath of office. It’s just a small example, but it’s very telling.
There’s another video with Jim Jordan where he quotes someone who literally admitted to not caring about the constitution, trying to find the video for you so you can shut your trap about me being in a bubble when you clearly have your blinders on.
So you take a shitty youtube channel from a constitutional lawyer (lol... well at least he has a law degree) that takes a 5 second clip of a person in congress explaining the point of the bill. Even your commentator doesn't accuse them of not caring about the constitution. He merely points out that they're looking for the legal loopholes in the supreme court decisions and essentially calls them hypocrites for it.
His whole argument boils down to "but but but the supreme court said so!" Yeah, the supreme court also said that abortion was a protected right. Then the supreme court said that it wasn't. The supreme court interprets the constitution, but it is not the constitution. Members of both parties repeatedly write laws to challenge prior supreme court rulings.
On August 17 2022 17:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: Blaming the Biden admin for the war in Ukraine is kinda mind-numbing tbh.
Ask yourself this: would the war have happened with Trump? It just adds to what I said about the world’s view on Biden. Biden got into power and the world started moving in ways they didn’t before. That’s just a simple fact. Do I blame Biden for that? No, but it’s the result of voting for a career politician who never accomplished anything and is seen as an old man who can barely remember what he’s talking about during the conversation that he’s in.
It’s a flawed system when you can put someone who should’ve been forced into retirement long ago in power.
Have you paid attention to the white house page on social media? Twitter, FB,.. doesn’t matter. The overall atmosphere towards this administration is turning pretty grim.
Prices go up - Biden has no control over that Prices go down - thank Biden for his hard work
Just a small example but that’s literally what we’re dealing with today and man.. the comments you get to read from the people is just hilarious because they’re starting to wake up.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want Biden as President but I wouldn’t want Trump to regain that position either. America is on a downslope and holy shit, it’s become the laughing stock for the rest of the world.
On August 17 2022 16:22 StasisField wrote: As I said earlier, I don't like Liz Cheney, her father, or what the Cheney family stands for in America. That being said, I do prefer Liz Cheney over a Trump nut. Why? Because Liz Cheney showed she at least has a limit on how far she's willing to watch the country slide into fascism. Trump-backed candidates and Trump supporters have not shown to have such a limit. If you think the 2020 election was stolen based on absolutely no evidence and you want Trump to return to power in the White House, then you are directly opposed to democracy and reason as far as I'm concerned, and that makes you an enemy to the country and an enemy to me, my family, and my loved ones. I'm not going to celebrate taking a step closer to living in a Christo-Fascist state under Trump rule.
The word fascism and its meaning has become so different from what it used to mean, people using the word fascism when it comes to Trump have never experienced fascism.
When you have an administration blatantly disregarding the constitution and openly saying they don’t care about the constitution (paraphrasing here), it’s not far fetched to call this administration’s direction a direction into totalitarianism, not to mention a flavour of dictatorial behaviour.
As I said earlier, a lot of people prefer Trump as a lesser evil.
So, what should we call people approving totalitarianism with a flavour of dictatorialism? Doesn’t sound better than voting for Trump if you ask me.
WTF are you talking about? Trump is the one who ignores the constitution. The whole January 6th thing is all about Trump trying to circumvent the constitution. Perhaps you should have paid attention to those hearings so you wouldn't be quite so ignorant.
He's also the one who, on tape, demanded that a secretary of state fabricate votes for him. If you didn't know, that's illegal. It also shows that he's trying to become a dictator who doesn't care about the vote.
OAN, Fox News, and right wing radio are lying to you. Get out of your bubble.
Except I don’t pay any attention to those channels. Why are you trying to deflect though?
Deflect what? Biden is a very normal US president. His administration is being run just like every other administration in my lifetime, Republican or Democrat, with the exception of Trump.
Find where someone in the administration says "they don't care about the constitution" or your paraphrase of it.
You claim that as some evil. So I'm going to point out that the "lesser evil" Trump is the one who actually took action to circumvent the constitution. That's not deflection, that's directly countering your point.
Just so you know, even trying to pass a law that is in direct opposition of the constitution can be considered (and should be) a violation of their oath of office. It’s just a small example, but it’s very telling.
There’s another video with Jim Jordan where he quotes someone who literally admitted to not caring about the constitution, trying to find the video for you so you can shut your trap about me being in a bubble when you clearly have your blinders on.
So you take a shitty youtube channel from a constitutional lawyer (lol... well at least he has a law degree) that takes a 5 second clip of a person in congress explaining the point of the bill. Even your commentator doesn't accuse them of not caring about the constitution. He merely points out that they're looking for the legal loopholes in the supreme court decisions and essentially calls them hypocrites for it.
His whole argument boils down to "but but but the supreme court said so!" Yeah, the supreme court also said that abortion was a protected right. Then the supreme court said that it wasn't. The supreme court interprets the constitution, but it is not the constitution. Members of both parties repeatedly write laws to challenge prior supreme court rulings.
A shitty youtube channel? You’re showing your ignorance and there I can ignore the rest you said, see how easy I can play that game? Haha, ahh, so fun.
Also, should try and find the video of Jim Jordan pointing out the double standards and quoting someone who literally stated they don’t care for the constitution. Pretty sure someone else posted the video about a week ago and got banned so hey, not making that mistake so do yourself a favour and look it up. It’s where Jordan mentions the whole hunter biden stuff where he wishes the same rules were applied to everyone. It’s a compilation and the quote is somewhere in there. Again, someone posted the video here and got banned so yeah, you’ll have to look for it yourself outside of this thread (unfortunately)
That’s another thing that makes me scratch my head on TL, any video that shits on Trump or Republicans regardless of the channel where it comes from is regarded as valid, true and whatnot. What makes you think that the left winged channels have any more legitimacy than right winged? They’re all the same. So your comment about a shitty yt channel is actually really fucking dumb.
Post something from Fox and it’s deemed untrue, not valid to bring up in a discussion.
Post something from MSN and holy shit truer words have never been spoken.
Goes back to what I initially said about this website and especially this thread. Glad to see you guys so willfully showing I’m right about that.
2: the ones obama set up? yeah he used those, and biden is using them(to a greater extent) and frankly should be, what would you do?
3:Calling a spade a spade how ever sad is not untrue, We're already seeing blue cities recoil at the possibility of being fed bus loads of people being sent from the border, are you telling me the idea of stopping border immigration is a bitpartiasn issue? can you guys absorb everyone from Central and south America that just wants to come over?
4: Agree, he fucked up, having a strong American military is actually really good for the west and there is no question, but I think the money could be better spent, much like a lot of gov funding.
5:Can't tell if real or what but im pretty sure grab em by the Pussy isnt on the 14 things that would make anyone a fascist, its a bit specific. lol
6: Dunno about Murdoch, but Jones and Bannon and much different. Fun fact calling things fake news is not an issue, you would be smug and happy to call something a fake news link if you didn't agree with it. I take this very seriously on this forum where I try to back my claims up with sources where people here wont be offended. If I post an outside right leaning source ill get pilloried. welcome to the real world, That's part of the bubble that you know, but pretend only exists on one side.
7:wall+ my political enemy's are bad people is this real life welcome to every political campaign.. but the wall eh. God they really had their head on a swivel when they came up with this list.
8:I'd agree with that, but is that the real determent you see it as? I'm very indifferent on this topic I'm not religious, but I'm also not pro Religion. Feels like small Potato's considering how many people are religious in the states but if that's the fight you want you can have it.
9: Were Prison's in the sates before trump good? I doubt it, did He make them worse? hell if I know.. But I honestly doubt you do either. Isnt the postal system a god damn nightmare? isn't amazon keeping it afloat? one of the giant companies you claim to be annoyed with getting a tax break? and on that tax cut, is this the tax cut that did help some non wealthy people, vs the biden tax cut(lol there is no biden tax cut) what hasnt helped anyone? like what kinda 14 steps fo fascism is this.
10: Hard truth = not all unions are good, in fact some are as corrupt as the biggest billion dollar company. We needed unions as a culture at one point, many have been rotted from the core at this point only seek to bleed the tax payer and their own members. Tldr, Unions can be good, but not all are.
11: Maybe you think the uneducated shouldn't be allowed to vote? not sure how to take this one, seems a bit extreme. I'd maybe rethink that stance if I were you.
12:Law and order is a classic thing for many not just right wing candidates in the the states. I'm sure you've got some juicy link for the first part so Ill let you link that one and you can really let me have it.
13:Ya if its part of the 14 reasons you should probably have to explain it, I don't think you'd allow me less.
14:So the claim is the 2016 election was stolen( I don't think it was) but it was claimed by one side. And now the 2020 election is/was being claimed it was stolen( I don't think it was) so what's the issue here, that 2 different sides have claimed elections were stolen?
Cant imagine how many typo's are in that gem lets hope not too many. But hey Stasis, 14 rules or not, at least the world doesn't have Lizzie in congress, we all won tonight big cat.
NPR did a very brief sketch of who Harriet Hageman is. She sounds fairly normal, but there don't seem to be any policy positions or really anything at all she stands for. It's basically: she has a background in law, her father was a politician, and she's running because Cheney betrayed Wyoming. Trump backed her, but she doesn't appear to be a MTG or other total nutjob. Just a regular politician, and Trump may very well have endorsed her as she was the main opponent of Cheney, rather than for anything she actually does or says.
Considerably more worrying, but probably still par for the course for a congressperson from Wyoming. Wanting to hunt and drill for oil seems like a pretty stereotypical prairie state republican? Her support for Trump seems like political expedience. Not something anybody should be very happy about, but it looks more like the Ted Cruz approach to Trump than the MTG one. Despicable, but good luck finding something better in the "Grand Old Party", especially in Wyoming.
I see the conservative smurfs are mucking up the thread again.
Anyone who tries to accuse the Biden admin of flouting the constitution and claims Trump is the lesser of two evils is an obvious troll.
Trump seemingly committed violations every day in office but we dont even need to get into the bulk of his time as President. We just need to look at Jan 6th, fake electors, stealing classified info. He tried to take US democracy down with him as he lost the election.
I really hope you Trumpers find some type of peace in your life because you seem like truly heartless, miserable people. Please stay away from FBI buildings for your own sake.
On August 17 2022 15:25 Taelshin wrote: Forget her trump hating, she was a warmongering witch and so was/is her father. If your honestly claiming your worried that Hageman, The woman that is replacing her in WY and will replace her in congress is worse then A Cheney then you've lost the plot.
But hey don't let me stop you and jock from supporting a literal monster because hey, they apposed trump, so they cant be all that bad, And hey maybe the new person they elected will be worse then Cheney, after all she's said she supports trump, she gotta be the devil right? lol cmon guys this is actually a good election for the world, either way it was a republican win from Wy so why not cheer the loss of a terrible neo-con warmonger.
As I said, twice, I don’t know much of the background of who replaced her.
If it’s someone sane, fair enough. If it’s a character like Marjorie Taylor Greene, less so. As I said, I don’t know much about the replacement character.
Yes, anyone who supports Trump is either an idiot or has temporarily shelved whatever moral scruples they have.
Characters like MTG (although as I said, I’ve no idea if this new incumbent is from that cloth) are, to my mind considerably worse than a Cheney.
People who think they’re preferable think they’re joke figures with no real chance of influence. Until they have it. Seen it with Trump already.
Hey we all have our personal foibles. The state of the current GOP is that bad I’ll flip back 15 years and find neo-cons preferable to this current, abhorrent nonsense. Others are free to disagree.
I’ve seen people being warned for less. Just one of the many examples of the political bias on this website. Makes it hard to have a balanced audience when one side is free to say whatever they want whereas the other gets punished for it without any hesitation.
A lot of people who supported Trump have done so because they saw him as a lesser of two evils. To some degree I’d say they were right to do so, the state of the world is proof of that when you compare how the world itself was running when he was potus and now when you have a career politician who never really accomplished anything is seen as a weak pawn by the majority of the world. Hello Russia, hello China. You trying to personally insult people because of their political vote is a pretty low standard to set.
I know if I’d get into a discussion and set the bar as low as you did there, I’d at least have my comment removed and get slapped on the wrist. Exactly the reason why most people who don’t share your political views usually start trolling and taking the piss, because they already feel like it’s a discussion they’ll never be allowed to win.
God I wish TL staff would apply the same standard to everyone.
People already bashing someone who was supported by Trump without really knowing anything about her, take your blinders off.
The guy was the most dishonest, incompetent and morally corrupt man to ever sit in the White House by every single standard, and tried to overturn an election by force.
Also, his supporters never thought he was the lesser of two evils. He has a near fanatical, cult like fanbase, and criticizing him means ending your career in the GOP.
Wombat doesn’t get banned because what he says is common sense to a big majority of people around the world. The guy was a bloody idiot and his supporters are either themselves completely morally compromised or live in that little post factual bubble the american right has built for itself.
On August 17 2022 19:42 Sadist wrote: I see the conservative smurfs are mucking up the thread again.
Anyone who tries to accuse the Biden admin of flouting the constitution and claims Trump is the lesser of two evils is an obvious troll.
Trump seemingly committed violations every day in office but we dont even need to get into the bulk of his time as President. We just need to look at Jan 6th, fake electors, stealing classified info. He tried to take US democracy down with him as he lost the election.
I really hope you Trumpers find some type of peace in your life because you seem like truly heartless, miserable people. Please stay away from FBI buildings for your own sake.
Oh, thank you for proving my point about this website. It’s not because people don’t share your views they’re automatically heartless or whatever but nice to see you try to keep your thinking so simplified, also explains why you’re incapable of taking your blinders off towards your beloved Biden.
Pretty sure both me and the other guy you’re referring to are just capable of calling out this administration for what it is. Calling me a Trumper is quite inaccurate but I can’t blame you, you’re clearly not open enough to put people in any other box other than your own and the box for Trumpers.
You won’t even look up anything we mentioned because you simply don’t want to confront your own delusion about the current administration including the fact they’re actively disregarding the constitution. Which is funny because that’s probably one of the first things you’ll say about Trump, so the hypocrisy there is pretty wild. Anyhow, I’m very happy with my life, family life is going great, career wise going only upwards so hey, don’t worry, we’re good. Enjoy your day
On August 17 2022 19:42 Sadist wrote: I see the conservative smurfs are mucking up the thread again.
Anyone who tries to accuse the Biden admin of flouting the constitution and claims Trump is the lesser of two evils is an obvious troll.
Trump seemingly committed violations every day in office but we dont even need to get into the bulk of his time as President. We just need to look at Jan 6th, fake electors, stealing classified info. He tried to take US democracy down with him as he lost the election.
I really hope you Trumpers find some type of peace in your life because you seem like truly heartless, miserable people. Please stay away from FBI buildings for your own sake.
Oh, thank you for proving my point about this website. It’s not because people don’t share your views they’re automatically heartless or whatever but nice to see you try to keep your thinking so simplified, also explains why you’re incapable of taking your blinders off towards your beloved Biden.
Pretty sure both me and the other guy you’re referring to are just capable of calling out this administration for what it is. Calling me a Trumper is quite inaccurate but I can’t blame you, you’re clearly not open enough to put people in any other box other than your own and the box for Trumpers.
You won’t even look up anything we mentioned because you simply don’t want to confront your own delusion about the current administration including the fact they’re actively disregarding the constitution. Which is funny because that’s probably one of the first things you’ll say about Trump, so the hypocrisy there is pretty wild. Anyhow, I’m very happy with my life, family life is going great, career wise going only upwards so hey, don’t worry, we’re good. Enjoy your day
Biden is not "beloved". Thats the part you dont seem to get though your thick skull. Normal people dont think like you. You are projecting your love for your dear orange leader on other people.
If Biden tried to pull January 6th stuff and submit fake electors I would want him in Jail. You dont see how dangerous your lot is to the future of the United States (attacking democracy, disdain for global cooperation and treaty organizations, engaging in trade wars, etc) and for the the globe as a whole (ex:climate change, anti science agenda)
You need to get it together. If your life is going well now it wont for very long if you continue down this path you are on.
On August 17 2022 15:25 Taelshin wrote: Forget her trump hating, she was a warmongering witch and so was/is her father. If your honestly claiming your worried that Hageman, The woman that is replacing her in WY and will replace her in congress is worse then A Cheney then you've lost the plot.
But hey don't let me stop you and jock from supporting a literal monster because hey, they apposed trump, so they cant be all that bad, And hey maybe the new person they elected will be worse then Cheney, after all she's said she supports trump, she gotta be the devil right? lol cmon guys this is actually a good election for the world, either way it was a republican win from Wy so why not cheer the loss of a terrible neo-con warmonger.
As I said, twice, I don’t know much of the background of who replaced her.
If it’s someone sane, fair enough. If it’s a character like Marjorie Taylor Greene, less so. As I said, I don’t know much about the replacement character.
Yes, anyone who supports Trump is either an idiot or has temporarily shelved whatever moral scruples they have.
Characters like MTG (although as I said, I’ve no idea if this new incumbent is from that cloth) are, to my mind considerably worse than a Cheney.
People who think they’re preferable think they’re joke figures with no real chance of influence. Until they have it. Seen it with Trump already.
Hey we all have our personal foibles. The state of the current GOP is that bad I’ll flip back 15 years and find neo-cons preferable to this current, abhorrent nonsense. Others are free to disagree.
I’ve seen people being warned for less. Just one of the many examples of the political bias on this website. Makes it hard to have a balanced audience when one side is free to say whatever they want whereas the other gets punished for it without any hesitation.
A lot of people who supported Trump have done so because they saw him as a lesser of two evils. To some degree I’d say they were right to do so, the state of the world is proof of that when you compare how the world itself was running when he was potus and now when you have a career politician who never really accomplished anything is seen as a weak pawn by the majority of the world. Hello Russia, hello China. You trying to personally insult people because of their political vote is a pretty low standard to set.
I know if I’d get into a discussion and set the bar as low as you did there, I’d at least have my comment removed and get slapped on the wrist. Exactly the reason why most people who don’t share your political views usually start trolling and taking the piss, because they already feel like it’s a discussion they’ll never be allowed to win.
God I wish TL staff would apply the same standard to everyone.
People already bashing someone who was supported by Trump without really knowing anything about her, take your blinders off.
The guy was the most dishonest, incompetent and morally corrupt man to ever sit in the White House by every single standard, and tried to overturn an election by force.
Also, his supporters never thought he was the lesser of two evils. He has a near fanatical, cult like fanbase, and criticizing him means ending your career in the GOP.
Wombat doesn’t get banned because what he says is common sense to a big majority of people around the world. The guy was a bloody idiot and his supporters are either themselves completely morally compromised or live in that little post factual bubble the american right has built for itself.
That part of his fanbase is quite the minority I’d say. Even I wouldn’t want Trump in office again, but he definitely did a better job than Biden, not sure how anyone can argue against that but then the excuse is Biden’s left with the mess Trump left him with, which in turn is the same thing for Trump after Obama when people call out Trump for things Obama had put in place. Regardless of what side you’re on, the excuses can run wild but they’re still just excuses. Speaking for both sides so don’t go apeshit on me for saying that out loud.
Fact is, what wombat said would get someone from the opposite side banned. That’s just a fact as people have been getting banned for saying such things for a long time here.
So everyone who voted for Trump has a messed up moral compass.. what about those who regret voting for Biden? There are plenty of those nowadays, you suddenly gonna brush them all the same? Sounds very very stupid and that’s a very easy way to end up shooting yourself in the foot sooner or later.
I know a lot of people voted more against Biden than for Trump, including myself and I still stand by that decision looking at how not just America has changed but also the world. It’s because people voted for a guy who has no business being in politics for so long without any achievements, someone who clearly is struggling mentally (could say that about Trump too but in a very different sense).
Russia definitely exploited the fact Trump lost, China definitely does. The tension within the borders of the US itself is so high it surprises me no one has made an attempt to assassinate him. I wouldn’t condone it but I definitely wouldn’t even lift my head to the news channel if it were to happen, that’s how bad things are right now. The world itself grabbed the opportunity created by the mistake of the elections going Biden’s way. And yes, I definitely do consider that a mistake.
Agree to disagree, I don’t care. I’m just calling things for what they are. Trump was dangerous but kept the world in check, Biden however is seen as a weakling and it shows.
Anyhow I’m done dealing with people who don’t see the hypocrisy.
On August 17 2022 19:42 Sadist wrote: I see the conservative smurfs are mucking up the thread again.
Anyone who tries to accuse the Biden admin of flouting the constitution and claims Trump is the lesser of two evils is an obvious troll.
Trump seemingly committed violations every day in office but we dont even need to get into the bulk of his time as President. We just need to look at Jan 6th, fake electors, stealing classified info. He tried to take US democracy down with him as he lost the election.
I really hope you Trumpers find some type of peace in your life because you seem like truly heartless, miserable people. Please stay away from FBI buildings for your own sake.
Oh, thank you for proving my point about this website. It’s not because people don’t share your views they’re automatically heartless or whatever but nice to see you try to keep your thinking so simplified, also explains why you’re incapable of taking your blinders off towards your beloved Biden.
Pretty sure both me and the other guy you’re referring to are just capable of calling out this administration for what it is. Calling me a Trumper is quite inaccurate but I can’t blame you, you’re clearly not open enough to put people in any other box other than your own and the box for Trumpers.
You won’t even look up anything we mentioned because you simply don’t want to confront your own delusion about the current administration including the fact they’re actively disregarding the constitution. Which is funny because that’s probably one of the first things you’ll say about Trump, so the hypocrisy there is pretty wild. Anyhow, I’m very happy with my life, family life is going great, career wise going only upwards so hey, don’t worry, we’re good. Enjoy your day
Biden is not "beloved". Thats the part you dont seem to get though your thick skull. Normal people dont think like you. You are projecting your love for your dear orange leader on other people.
If Biden tried to pull January 6th stuff and submit fake electors I would want him in Jail. You dont see how dangerous your lot is to the future of the United States (attacking democracy, disdain for global cooperation and treaty organizations, engaging in trade wars, etc) and for the the globe as a whole (ex:climate change, anti science agenda)
You need to get it together. If your life is going well now it wont for very long if you continue down this path you are on.
I’m not worried at the slightest, you seem to think you’re on some sort of moral high ground and in a position to tell me to get it together, you clearly don’t know your place and you clearly misjudge me and the position I am in. My orange leader only got my vote because I voted against Biden and I still stand by that decision. Good luck, you’ll need it more than I do.
On August 17 2022 19:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On August 17 2022 16:18 YautjaHunting wrote:
On August 17 2022 15:54 WombaT wrote:
On August 17 2022 15:25 Taelshin wrote: Forget her trump hating, she was a warmongering witch and so was/is her father. If your honestly claiming your worried that Hageman, The woman that is replacing her in WY and will replace her in congress is worse then A Cheney then you've lost the plot.
But hey don't let me stop you and jock from supporting a literal monster because hey, they apposed trump, so they cant be all that bad, And hey maybe the new person they elected will be worse then Cheney, after all she's said she supports trump, she gotta be the devil right? lol cmon guys this is actually a good election for the world, either way it was a republican win from Wy so why not cheer the loss of a terrible neo-con warmonger.
As I said, twice, I don’t know much of the background of who replaced her.
If it’s someone sane, fair enough. If it’s a character like Marjorie Taylor Greene, less so. As I said, I don’t know much about the replacement character.
Yes, anyone who supports Trump is either an idiot or has temporarily shelved whatever moral scruples they have.
Characters like MTG (although as I said, I’ve no idea if this new incumbent is from that cloth) are, to my mind considerably worse than a Cheney.
People who think they’re preferable think they’re joke figures with no real chance of influence. Until they have it. Seen it with Trump already.
Hey we all have our personal foibles. The state of the current GOP is that bad I’ll flip back 15 years and find neo-cons preferable to this current, abhorrent nonsense. Others are free to disagree.
I’ve seen people being warned for less. Just one of the many examples of the political bias on this website. Makes it hard to have a balanced audience when one side is free to say whatever they want whereas the other gets punished for it without any hesitation.
A lot of people who supported Trump have done so because they saw him as a lesser of two evils. To some degree I’d say they were right to do so, the state of the world is proof of that when you compare how the world itself was running when he was potus and now when you have a career politician who never really accomplished anything is seen as a weak pawn by the majority of the world. Hello Russia, hello China. You trying to personally insult people because of their political vote is a pretty low standard to set.
I know if I’d get into a discussion and set the bar as low as you did there, I’d at least have my comment removed and get slapped on the wrist. Exactly the reason why most people who don’t share your political views usually start trolling and taking the piss, because they already feel like it’s a discussion they’ll never be allowed to win.
God I wish TL staff would apply the same standard to everyone.
People already bashing someone who was supported by Trump without really knowing anything about her, take your blinders off.
The guy was the most dishonest, incompetent and morally corrupt man to ever sit in the White House by every single standard, and tried to overturn an election by force.
Also, his supporters never thought he was the lesser of two evils. He has a near fanatical, cult like fanbase, and criticizing him means ending your career in the GOP.
Wombat doesn’t get banned because what he says is common sense to a big majority of people around the world. The guy was a bloody idiot and his supporters are either themselves completely morally compromised or live in that little post factual bubble the american right has built for itself.
That part of his fanbase is quite the minority I’d say. Even I wouldn’t want Trump in office again, but he definitely did a better job than Biden, not sure how anyone can argue against that but then the excuse is Biden’s left with the mess Trump left him with, which in turn is the same thing for Trump after Obama when people call out Trump for things Obama had put in place. Regardless of what side you’re on, the excuses can run wild but they’re still just excuses. Speaking for both sides so don’t go apeshit on me for saying that out loud.
Fact is, what wombat said would get someone from the opposite side banned. That’s just a fact as people have been getting banned for saying such things for a long time here.
So everyone who voted for Trump has a messed up moral compass.. what about those who regret voting for Biden? There are plenty of those nowadays, you suddenly gonna brush them all the same? Sounds very very stupid and that’s a very easy way to end up shooting yourself in the foot sooner or later.
I know a lot of people voted more against Biden than for Trump, including myself and I still stand by that decision looking at how not just America has changed but also the world. It’s because people voted for a guy who has no business being in politics for so long without any achievements, someone who clearly is struggling mentally (could say that about Trump too but in a very different sense).
Russia definitely exploited the fact Trump lost, China definitely does. The tension within the borders of the US itself is so high it surprises me no one has made an attempt to assassinate him. I wouldn’t condone it but I definitely wouldn’t even lift my head to the news channel if it were to happen, that’s how bad things are right now. The world itself grabbed the opportunity created by the mistake of the elections going Biden’s way. And yes, I definitely do consider that a mistake.
Agree to disagree, I don’t care. I’m just calling things for what they are. Trump was dangerous but kept the world in check, Biden however is seen as a weakling and it shows.
Anyhow I’m done dealing with people who don’t see the hypocrisy.
As a non-american I don't really care too much about internal politics. Trump had the advantage of a booming economy leading up to Covid, and then Covid was clearly to blame for the absolute trainwreck of an economy he was left with. You can blame Biden all you like, but absolutely nowhere in the world is doing very well write now, because Covid severely fucked every single supply chain, and what was kinda sorta recovering then got wrecked by a huge war in Europe.
You can then claim that the US should just ignore human rights, and wars of aggression and deal with Russia for the sake of gas prices, but that just makes you a horrible horrible person. Sanctioning Russia's economy is pretty much the only lever the west has without risking nuclear war, and it's therefore the correct way to deal with it. I am extremely grateful Biden is in charge of the US, and not Trump during this bit of history. Would I rather you guys elected someone who wasn't bordering on 80 flipping years to lead your nation? Yes. But clearly that wasn't possible, as for the last few years, the options have been Hillary, Trump, Bernie and Biden. And your other political entities are led by Chuck Schumer (71), Nancy Pelosi (82), and before that Mitch McConnell (80). The only recent politician in a position of leadership, who wasn't well past retirement age was Paul Ryan. It's time to force your septa and octagenerians to retire as they've all been awful, regardless what side of the aisle they came from.
As for his relationship with the constitution, I don't see where Biden is trying to break it. But Trump absolutely undoubtedly broke multiple laws, and if he didn't break the letter of the constitution, he definitely broke its spirit when trying to cling to power with the January 6 nonsense. I don't understand how you can be so adamant about the constitution, but support someone like Trump.
On August 17 2022 19:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On August 17 2022 16:18 YautjaHunting wrote:
On August 17 2022 15:54 WombaT wrote:
On August 17 2022 15:25 Taelshin wrote: Forget her trump hating, she was a warmongering witch and so was/is her father. If your honestly claiming your worried that Hageman, The woman that is replacing her in WY and will replace her in congress is worse then A Cheney then you've lost the plot.
But hey don't let me stop you and jock from supporting a literal monster because hey, they apposed trump, so they cant be all that bad, And hey maybe the new person they elected will be worse then Cheney, after all she's said she supports trump, she gotta be the devil right? lol cmon guys this is actually a good election for the world, either way it was a republican win from Wy so why not cheer the loss of a terrible neo-con warmonger.
As I said, twice, I don’t know much of the background of who replaced her.
If it’s someone sane, fair enough. If it’s a character like Marjorie Taylor Greene, less so. As I said, I don’t know much about the replacement character.
Yes, anyone who supports Trump is either an idiot or has temporarily shelved whatever moral scruples they have.
Characters like MTG (although as I said, I’ve no idea if this new incumbent is from that cloth) are, to my mind considerably worse than a Cheney.
People who think they’re preferable think they’re joke figures with no real chance of influence. Until they have it. Seen it with Trump already.
Hey we all have our personal foibles. The state of the current GOP is that bad I’ll flip back 15 years and find neo-cons preferable to this current, abhorrent nonsense. Others are free to disagree.
I’ve seen people being warned for less. Just one of the many examples of the political bias on this website. Makes it hard to have a balanced audience when one side is free to say whatever they want whereas the other gets punished for it without any hesitation.
A lot of people who supported Trump have done so because they saw him as a lesser of two evils. To some degree I’d say they were right to do so, the state of the world is proof of that when you compare how the world itself was running when he was potus and now when you have a career politician who never really accomplished anything is seen as a weak pawn by the majority of the world. Hello Russia, hello China. You trying to personally insult people because of their political vote is a pretty low standard to set.
I know if I’d get into a discussion and set the bar as low as you did there, I’d at least have my comment removed and get slapped on the wrist. Exactly the reason why most people who don’t share your political views usually start trolling and taking the piss, because they already feel like it’s a discussion they’ll never be allowed to win.
God I wish TL staff would apply the same standard to everyone.
People already bashing someone who was supported by Trump without really knowing anything about her, take your blinders off.
The guy was the most dishonest, incompetent and morally corrupt man to ever sit in the White House by every single standard, and tried to overturn an election by force.
Also, his supporters never thought he was the lesser of two evils. He has a near fanatical, cult like fanbase, and criticizing him means ending your career in the GOP.
Wombat doesn’t get banned because what he says is common sense to a big majority of people around the world. The guy was a bloody idiot and his supporters are either themselves completely morally compromised or live in that little post factual bubble the american right has built for itself.
That part of his fanbase is quite the minority I’d say. Even I wouldn’t want Trump in office again, but he definitely did a better job than Biden, not sure how anyone can argue against that but then the excuse is Biden’s left with the mess Trump left him with, which in turn is the same thing for Trump after Obama when people call out Trump for things Obama had put in place. Regardless of what side you’re on, the excuses can run wild but they’re still just excuses. Speaking for both sides so don’t go apeshit on me for saying that out loud.
Fact is, what wombat said would get someone from the opposite side banned. That’s just a fact as people have been getting banned for saying such things for a long time here.
So everyone who voted for Trump has a messed up moral compass.. what about those who regret voting for Biden? There are plenty of those nowadays, you suddenly gonna brush them all the same? Sounds very very stupid and that’s a very easy way to end up shooting yourself in the foot sooner or later.
I know a lot of people voted more against Biden than for Trump, including myself and I still stand by that decision looking at how not just America has changed but also the world. It’s because people voted for a guy who has no business being in politics for so long without any achievements, someone who clearly is struggling mentally (could say that about Trump too but in a very different sense).
Russia definitely exploited the fact Trump lost, China definitely does. The tension within the borders of the US itself is so high it surprises me no one has made an attempt to assassinate him. I wouldn’t condone it but I definitely wouldn’t even lift my head to the news channel if it were to happen, that’s how bad things are right now. The world itself grabbed the opportunity created by the mistake of the elections going Biden’s way. And yes, I definitely do consider that a mistake.
Agree to disagree, I don’t care. I’m just calling things for what they are. Trump was dangerous but kept the world in check, Biden however is seen as a weakling and it shows.
Anyhow I’m done dealing with people who don’t see the hypocrisy.
Man. That orange bouffon tried to stage a coup. Even if against all evidence, you want to think that he was a better president than Biden, which, whatever you think of Biden, is ridiculous, the mere fact the man tried to break 240 years of uninterrupted democracy in the United States is enough to make futile any attempt to even start comparing him to any other president in recent memory.
If we can’t agree on that, there is nothing to be said.
On August 17 2022 16:52 Taelshin wrote: @StasisField "Trump's administration met all 14 characteristics of Fascism"
All 14? are you serious? Please go on we cannot allow such wisdom to go undiscussed, let us record it for all times here StasisField. God I can't wait, likely it wont live up to the end of a Cheney in political life, But man I bet its gonna be good.
The 14 characteristics are:
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
1. Make America Great Again, obsession with flags. Pretty obvious.
2. Migrant detention centers.
3. Illegal Immigrants are "others". We have to build the wall, they're not sending their best.
4. US's military budget is far too large and it grew under Trump.
5. Grab 'em by the pussy. Trump appointed SCJs overturned Roe V Wade.
6. Murdoch, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, and more are allies of Trump and run their network like Trump propaganda. Claims that other news outlets are "fake" news.
7. Liberals are evil people trying to bring about the end of the United States! We must build the wall and secure our borders. Again, obvious.
8. The Trump administration and the effects its appointees are having have help erode the separation of church and state.
9. Privatization of prisons, weakening of public resources like the Postal Service, big corporate tax cuts.
10. Trump's labor secretary, Patrick Pizzella attacked unions and unions leaders, even describing the latter as "mob bosses".
11. I love uneducated voters!
12. Trump encouraged police to injure suspects on his campaign trail. Trump also liked to describe himself as a law and order President.
13. Do I even need to explain the cronyism and corruption one? Like really?
14. 2016 election is being stolen! 2020 election was stolen!
And there are plenty more examples you can give for each characteristic. These are off the top of my head.
EDIT: I'm not going to be responding to either Taelshin or YautjaHunting after this post. It's a waste of breath. But in case anyone else had any doubts, here are the 14 characteristics and just some of the ways Trump and his administration met all 14. Have a good night.
I love how obvious it is that you don’t like it when we point out the shortcomings, hypocrisy and double standards and you call it a waste of breath, yet we’re the ones in a bubble? Holy shit, thanks for the laugh.
this is the guy who just asked someone else why he’s deflecting. this is the guy crying about hypocrisy of others. this is the guy wondering why ‘conservatives’ get banned. maybe you can follow those three short sentences with a little reflection.
hint; it’s not because you’re conservative.
actually dealing with the subject matter of the post- i would quibble with whether or not supremacy of the military was really a strong characteristic of the trump admin. every administration spends an unbelievably stupid amount of money on the military. but then he did want a literal military parade down pennsylvania avenue north korea style.
it seems to me like he stretched to meet them on purpose, because that otherwise didn’t really seem like a priority.
There aren't just two sides here. Which makes a lot of argument obsolete. It's not "what about xyz", it's about "what is". What is is that trump admin displays all signs of fascism and bidens doesnt (display all of them). What is is that trump violated the constitution many times. Violated Christian values many times. Broke laws many times. What is is that in Ukraine there is war since 2014.
And it's, imo, misjudgement to say under trump there wouldn't be this war because it's not a new war. It might already have been over under trump because trump would have abandoned Ukraine. That might be preferable to you but not to me.
the idea that this war wouldn’t have happened under trump is asinine. of course it would have. we just wouldn’t be in it, because we’d be on russia’s side. oh art beat me to it. that’s what i get for not seeing the next page before posting.
On August 17 2022 15:25 Taelshin wrote: Forget her trump hating, she was a warmongering witch and so was/is her father. If your honestly claiming your worried that Hageman, The woman that is replacing her in WY and will replace her in congress is worse then A Cheney then you've lost the plot.
But hey don't let me stop you and jock from supporting a literal monster because hey, they apposed trump, so they cant be all that bad, And hey maybe the new person they elected will be worse then Cheney, after all she's said she supports trump, she gotta be the devil right? lol cmon guys this is actually a good election for the world, either way it was a republican win from Wy so why not cheer the loss of a terrible neo-con warmonger.
As I said, twice, I don’t know much of the background of who replaced her.
If it’s someone sane, fair enough. If it’s a character like Marjorie Taylor Greene, less so. As I said, I don’t know much about the replacement character.
Yes, anyone who supports Trump is either an idiot or has temporarily shelved whatever moral scruples they have.
Characters like MTG (although as I said, I’ve no idea if this new incumbent is from that cloth) are, to my mind considerably worse than a Cheney.
People who think they’re preferable think they’re joke figures with no real chance of influence. Until they have it. Seen it with Trump already.
Hey we all have our personal foibles. The state of the current GOP is that bad I’ll flip back 15 years and find neo-cons preferable to this current, abhorrent nonsense. Others are free to disagree.
I’ve seen people being warned for less. Just one of the many examples of the political bias on this website. Makes it hard to have a balanced audience when one side is free to say whatever they want whereas the other gets punished for it without any hesitation.
A lot of people who supported Trump have done so because they saw him as a lesser of two evils. To some degree I’d say they were right to do so, the state of the world is proof of that when you compare how the world itself was running when he was potus and now when you have a career politician who never really accomplished anything is seen as a weak pawn by the majority of the world. Hello Russia, hello China. You trying to personally insult people because of their political vote is a pretty low standard to set.
I know if I’d get into a discussion and set the bar as low as you did there, I’d at least have my comment removed and get slapped on the wrist. Exactly the reason why most people who don’t share your political views usually start trolling and taking the piss, because they already feel like it’s a discussion they’ll never be allowed to win.
God I wish TL staff would apply the same standard to everyone.
People already bashing someone who was supported by Trump without really knowing anything about her, take your blinders off.
We are allowed opinions on here, auld Sleepy Joe gets dunked on just as badly on many occasions. Voting Trump, especially in 2016 I don’t particularly have qualms with, he was a somewhat unknown quantity.
Even today considering him the lesser of two evils is one thing, actively cheerleading and ignoring his multitude of sins and character defects is quite another.
One can also be a conservative without supporting Trump, that’s actually a thing that’s possible to do.
The man doesn’t just run roughshod over my personal values, he backs up and runs over ostensible conservative values as well.
To be clear, I don’t particularly disparage people who consider him the lesser of two evils, ok well I do a little. But by supporter I mean people who actively admire him and what he stands for, and perform mental gymnastics that Olga Korbut couldn’t emulate in defending the indefensible.
And to both you and Taelshin, I twice said I knew nothing about Cheney’s replacement. It’s right up there for everyone in the thread to read.
It’s the classic one-two punch of martyrdom and complaining that youse aren’t welcome in discussions because conservatives are illegal, while simultaneously completely going off on a tangent for something I never said.
Maybe it’s not the conservative ideology being trampled down, indeed I myself many, many times have said I’d like more conservatives in here.
Join a long-running thread, don’t read the room, read off the standard playbook and assume Biden is ‘beloved’ in a thread where he’s not much liked at all. Maybe that’s the issue? Hey we’re not all intellectual titans here, I’m certainly not but treat it differently from a Facebook post or Twitter thread and maybe we’ll get somewhere.
On August 17 2022 21:08 brian wrote: the idea that this war wouldn’t have happened under trump is asinine. of course it would have. we just wouldn’t be in it, because we’d be on russia’s side. oh art beat me to it. that’s what i get for not seeing the next page before posting.
Yes, Trump had a distain for NATO. Its laughable to think that Russia would have not engaged in Ukraine with Trump in office. What would Trump have done to discourage them? Threaten to Nuke Moscow? The US has been heavily involved with broad coalition building for sanctions. Sanctions likely would have happened inside of Europe without the US involvment but not to the extent we are seeing. By bolstering NATO it seems like if anything it discourages further Russian expansionism now. It also signals to China that if they invade Taiwan there is a global cooalition that they would have to go against economically if not militarily.
I just dont see the logic unless you feel good about Trump handling the red button to scare other countries into submission. If anyone launches nukes its very likely the world would be a very bad place to inhabit for the forseeable future.
EPT
