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On June 10 2022 11:12 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 11:01 Sermokala wrote:On June 10 2022 10:40 Zambrah wrote:
Says a lot about how the US has been systematically hollowed out over the past decades, we're a husk of a country waiting for that one strong gust of wind to cause us to crumble. I wouldn't say the past decades. Pence represents the evangelical right and even he didn't go along with the coup. This is entirely apart of the post bush dissolution with the fears of electoral nonviability of white nationalists due to changing demographics. Sarah Palin was the attempt of the Republican party to get back on track with more naked nationalism and reactionary content to rally up a dwindling base. That base got out of control and now we have trump. I track the downfall of the US to Reagan, the pilfering of economic prosperity over the years has led to stratification of wealth as well as the death of the American dream. Life becomes harder, money becomes tighter, people become more desperate and since the people pilfering don't want to face the pitchfork the media blames immigrants, the liberals, the whoever theyre scapegoating at the time. The situation is a cacophony of deregulation and corporations gaining tons of control over government, but I generally believe our current world is the product of Reagan onwards. Im firmly of the opinion a thriving country with people who have faith in their situation and leadership aren't as susceptible to dumb conspiracy bullshit as ones who are in desperate situations, thats the lens that I view the current situation with. Without Reagan ruining the US economically and culturally for anyone sans the rich I don't think we wind up in this shitty reality.
While I'd agree Reagan (and Reagan Democrats) ushered in the neoliberal center from which we still mostly draw the line between left and right in the US today, I have a different perspective.
The US has always been an oppressive nightmare teetering on collapse but did have a brief window of peak potential post World War 2 to correct course by virtue of being the most industrialized country not to have been bombed flat basically.
Instead it went to went all-in on capitalism, went to war with communism, assassinated leaders and brutalized burgeoning liberation movements domestically and abroad. By the time Reagan got in power the course was set and the damage done. Reagan was sort of the deathknell of the electoral left in the US. Bill Clinton ushered the refined Democrat branded neoliberalism (or social liberalism if one prefers) of Third Way then Obama (Hillary in her failure) and Biden have carried it through to today.
That said, Carter treaded a lot of the same trail ahead of Reagan.
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On June 10 2022 14:11 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm not watching the January 6 hearings because at the end of the day, I foresee the odds of anything significant happening as a result of them at less than five percent. I don't see it as pessimistic, I see it as realistic
I'm with you on this. Was thinking Trump might be criminally charged, but then realized the rich and powerful are untouchable in the USA.
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On June 10 2022 14:24 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 14:11 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm not watching the January 6 hearings because at the end of the day, I foresee the odds of anything significant happening as a result of them at less than five percent. I don't see it as pessimistic, I see it as realistic I'm with you on this. Was thinking Trump might be criminally charged, but then realized the rich and powerful are untouchable in the USA.
Yeah I don't think anything *significant* is going to come from these hearings, and by *significant* I mean "anything that will change the minds of Trump supporters / the pro-insurrection individuals". If people are still on Team Trump after all these years, there's realistically nothing that the hearings would uncover that would convince them otherwise. It's all part of the broader conspiracy, blah blah blah, excuses.
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Even if some super damning things were uncovered, they will just say: "its a ploy by the deep state to get their boi".
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It’s only damning if it had consequences none of the spectacle ever meant anything if Trump and his cadre of proto fascists were going to just walk free. Which we all knew they were when they were allowed to just carry on immediately after Jan 6th.
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Northern Ireland26556 Posts
On June 10 2022 11:12 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 11:01 Sermokala wrote:On June 10 2022 10:40 Zambrah wrote:
Says a lot about how the US has been systematically hollowed out over the past decades, we're a husk of a country waiting for that one strong gust of wind to cause us to crumble. I wouldn't say the past decades. Pence represents the evangelical right and even he didn't go along with the coup. This is entirely apart of the post bush dissolution with the fears of electoral nonviability of white nationalists due to changing demographics. Sarah Palin was the attempt of the Republican party to get back on track with more naked nationalism and reactionary content to rally up a dwindling base. That base got out of control and now we have trump. I track the downfall of the US to Reagan, the pilfering of economic prosperity over the years has led to stratification of wealth as well as the death of the American dream. Life becomes harder, money becomes tighter, people become more desperate and since the people pilfering don't want to face the pitchfork the media blames immigrants, the liberals, the whoever theyre scapegoating at the time. The situation is a cacophony of deregulation and corporations gaining tons of control over government, but I generally believe our current world is the product of Reagan onwards. Im firmly of the opinion a thriving country with people who have faith in their situation and leadership aren't as susceptible to dumb conspiracy bullshit as ones who are in desperate situations, thats the lens that I view the current situation with. Without Reagan ruining the US economically and culturally for anyone sans the rich I don't think we wind up in this shitty reality.
Wealth certainly plays a part but, there’s just something culturally wonky at the heart of the American psyche. I’m unsure what it is but if American exceptionalism does exist anywhere it’s in that particular domain.
I mean in ye olde Britannia for Reagan read Thatcher, similar trends albeit in areas less extreme.
I mean I may hate the Tories, and I’m not alone there, I do have a certain faith that government actually functions, even in policy directions I dislike. Or institutions broadly function. Or I don’t outright despise half of the population or what have you.
In the absence of prosperity there’s plenty of substitutes people cling to, Americans seem to go in a different direction than many comparable nations.
I mean somebody like Magic the Gathering should be a crazy person on Twitter, not a member of the national legislature.
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On June 10 2022 21:54 Zambrah wrote:
It’s only damning if it had consequences none of the spectacle ever meant anything if Trump and his cadre of proto fascists were going to just walk free. Which we all knew they were when they were allowed to just carry on immediately after Jan 6th.
I think the most ambitious they are hoping for with this is to bump Trump's(/Republicans) negatives enough so they aren't still more favorably viewed by the US electorate than Biden(/Democrats in generic congressional polling) .
I think it's less the hearing itself and more the campaign ads using the footage from the hearing they think will help them stem the bleeding they expect to see in the midterms.
Too that point, midterm polling/forecasts are not looking good for Democrats. Biden's still under Trump's bar for favorability, his job approval is at his lowest and Democrats are down 3+% in generic congressional polling. That translates to Democrats looking to lose the House with near certainty, the real question being by how many seats.
The glimmer of electoral hope for Democrats is that the Senate isn't as sure of a loss. They have to win 4 "tossups" just to hold on to the 50 though.
I doubt Biden is going to do remotely progressive Democrats any favors negotiating with a Republican controlled House and Senate so he can at least sign something between midterms and 2024.
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On June 10 2022 19:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 14:24 Nick_54 wrote:On June 10 2022 14:11 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm not watching the January 6 hearings because at the end of the day, I foresee the odds of anything significant happening as a result of them at less than five percent. I don't see it as pessimistic, I see it as realistic I'm with you on this. Was thinking Trump might be criminally charged, but then realized the rich and powerful are untouchable in the USA. Yeah I don't think anything *significant* is going to come from these hearings, and by *significant* I mean "anything that will change the minds of Trump supporters / the pro-insurrection individuals". If people are still on Team Trump after all these years, there's realistically nothing that the hearings would uncover that would convince them otherwise. It's all part of the broader conspiracy, blah blah blah, excuses.
It’s political theatre and everyone knows it.
I’d think everyone in America would have formed an opinion by now.
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I'm surprised that not even gh is freaking out over 60% of the population is losing their 4th amendment rights to not having warentless searches of their property and being assaulted by federal agents in their home.
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United States43877 Posts
On June 10 2022 11:01 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 10:40 Zambrah wrote:
Says a lot about how the US has been systematically hollowed out over the past decades, we're a husk of a country waiting for that one strong gust of wind to cause us to crumble. I wouldn't say the past decades. Pence represents the evangelical right and even he didn't go along with the coup. This is entirely apart of the post bush dissolution with the fears of electoral nonviability of white nationalists due to changing demographics. Sarah Palin was the attempt of the Republican party to get back on track with more naked nationalism and reactionary content to rally up a dwindling base. That base got out of control and now we have trump.
Pence wanted to do as Trump instructed but sought the advice of Dan Quayle who convinced him not to overthrow democracy. What a world.
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On June 11 2022 02:11 JimmiC wrote:The big question coming up is, is DeSantis more or less terrifying than Trump? He is riding the same wave, is clearly smarter but not quite have the cult following. Some of the Op-Ed's I've read are starting to lean toward him being the nominee because Trumps ego can not handle another loss, in either the primary or the general. If they do go head to head in the primary and Trump loses the vote, will that end the Republican party? Because no way he accepts the vote is not rigged. Poll: More frightening leader of the Republicans?DeSantis (11) 85% Trump (2) 15% 13 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Trump
☐ DeSantis
A president DeSantis with Republican control of the legislature + this Supreme Court is a truly terrifying thought. On the other hand, a deranged but incompetent lunatic who is willing to cross any boundary is pretty scary too especially now with war in Ukraine, impending global famine, and looming recession.
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Northern Ireland26556 Posts
Oh that is a tough one.
I get the theory that a more competent, equally awful figure should be a worse prospect.
On the flip side Trump seems to inhabit a kind of strange, reverse goldilocks zone where his particular brand of stupid seems to resonate more thoroughly and generally drag his fellow citizens down ridiculous paths.
DeSantis on the face of it seems to have both actual beliefs, plus is a more competent guy, so in terms of legislation and whatnot could do more damage, least the short thru medium term.
Trump seems to corrode the very culture of the nation in ways that don’t seem likely to snap back any time soon, 4 years more of that would be decidedly bad craic.
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Trump's whole thing was taking the unresolved racism, sexism, greed, and general assholery of less self-aware people, and telling them that those qualities are virtues instead. You're not actually bad people like basically everyone else is telling you, those qualities make you a good person. It's good to be a selfish asshole who takes advantage of systems and people and is willing to threaten violence to get what they want, even if it's as simple as someone disagreeing with you.
He validated shitty people who were tired of hearing about how shitty they are. Rather than try to self-improve or self-reflect, and maybe try to not be an asshole, it's far easier to tie your entire identity to the one person who validates what to everyone else is unacceptable. It's why they're so deeply entrenched, and even the swathes of evidence and interviews we're seeing about January 6th won't make a dent.
The people who support Trump are so deeply invested, on a self-actualisation level, in rationalizing their dear leader and everything he does, because their psyche would literally collapse if they had to start questioning it now, after 6 years. No one wants to think they're a bad person. And no one certainly wants to face the fact that they've been a shitty person for a very long time. Much easier to keep sticking to the ruleset that says they're still good people.
Anyway, I digress, this is all to say that Trump has a uniquely dangerous and galvanizing effect on Republican voters, which is why Republicans are desperate to follow his lead and capitalize on his nationalistic, fascist energy. If his influence on the party fades, it will be like a rash that is no longer being irritated and inflamed, and it will calm down. So it would balance out the potential danger of new Republican leaders being more savvy in their ways than Trump's sledgehammer approach to politics. They're more savvy, but also a lot less interesting.
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its interesting discussion but i removed my contribution,my appologies.
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On June 11 2022 02:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 11:01 Sermokala wrote:On June 10 2022 10:40 Zambrah wrote:
Says a lot about how the US has been systematically hollowed out over the past decades, we're a husk of a country waiting for that one strong gust of wind to cause us to crumble. I wouldn't say the past decades. Pence represents the evangelical right and even he didn't go along with the coup. This is entirely apart of the post bush dissolution with the fears of electoral nonviability of white nationalists due to changing demographics. Sarah Palin was the attempt of the Republican party to get back on track with more naked nationalism and reactionary content to rally up a dwindling base. That base got out of control and now we have trump. Pence wanted to do as Trump instructed but sought the advice of Dan Quayle who convinced him not to overthrow democracy. What a world.
Idk if this is sarcasm but either way it's a valid point. Even a short huddle would have everyone in the evangelical right screaming no on what trump wanted to to. They after all were only with trump for the judges, judges that they got to a 6-3 supermajority no one saw coming. Why throw more chips into the pile when you're already up so much?
Roe vs wade died for our democracy.
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EPT
