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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3399

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-03 01:31:42
December 03 2021 01:30 GMT
#67961
The solution to abortion, in addition to sex education and contraceptives availability, is a social safety net that allows people to have more children and care for more children. For a large period of my life, my wife and I would have chosen abortion due to the sheer financial non-viability of raising a child the way a child deserves to be raised. A kid would have basically ruined both our lives and we would have ruined their life. If we had an ethically proficient government, this would not be the case. Children should have the full protection of the state, including guaranteed access to all the things a child needs.

The quality of a child's life should not depend on who their parents are. Our society is morally failing by making children reliant on parents.
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
December 03 2021 02:01 GMT
#67962
Im curious how we'll cope with a baby bust since, as you said, having kids is basically a financial death sentence. At the same time, I doubt that we'll see wages rise to a place where that stops being the case.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45306 Posts
December 03 2021 02:09 GMT
#67963
On December 03 2021 11:01 Zambrah wrote:
Im curious how we'll cope with a baby bust since, as you said, having kids is basically a financial death sentence. At the same time, I doubt that we'll see wages rise to a place where that stops being the case.


Are you suggesting that Republicans won't be raising the minimum wage or advocating for child care? /s
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
December 03 2021 03:13 GMT
#67964
On December 03 2021 11:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2021 11:01 Zambrah wrote:
Im curious how we'll cope with a baby bust since, as you said, having kids is basically a financial death sentence. At the same time, I doubt that we'll see wages rise to a place where that stops being the case.


Are you suggesting that Republicans won't be raising the minimum wage or advocating for child care? /s


Not to mention healthcare. I cant even fathom how much its got to suck to have just given birth and have a colossal bill foisted on you.

Democrats aren't going to help with healthcare or a thriving wage either though. Maybe child care, though I imagine it'd be inadequate in the face of all the challenges facing people who would want to have kids.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43609 Posts
December 03 2021 03:23 GMT
#67965
Democrats have done a lot in the Biden administration on expanded child tax credit and subsidized daycare. The subsidized daycare is especially important given the current labour market.

I’ll always agree that the Democrats should do more but it’s important to note that they don’t do nothing.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-03 03:30:52
December 03 2021 03:29 GMT
#67966
I mean I did say they might do some stuff in child care, thats not nothing, but at the same time if people are going to feel financially safe having kids then its going to take more than just child care stuff, theres going to have to be healthcare change to make sure new mothers don't have colossal hospital bills, wages need to go up so parents aren't crapping their pants at the thought of an emergency draining any meagre savings, etc.

I'm not saying Democrats'll do nothing to encourage people to have kids, just not enough in the face of how fucked so many people are financially.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
December 03 2021 03:57 GMT
#67967
Once the population of the US allow for people who fight for more to be elected, we'll get it. Until then, here we are. I think the senate is a good measure of where we are at as a country. We basically need to be 6% more progressive as a country and we get to catch up to Europe.
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-03 04:14:10
December 03 2021 04:13 GMT
#67968
We'd need a consistent supermajority and to abolish the filibuster to get any real change out of the Senate imo. Manchin and Sinema are villains, but there are plenty of other Democrats who will come out and usurp the villain role to make sure their donors arent going to be impacted by things like universal healthcare. Not to mention you run the risk of electing Sinemas who turn out to be sellouts.

And all of this takes decades because of how long Senators have their seats. What we need is to be able to recall them and to do so aggressively.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43609 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-03 04:25:37
December 03 2021 04:23 GMT
#67969
Also a majority of state legislatures so that the issues with the constitution can be ironed out. There is clearly far too much that is governed by tradition. Tradition was for presidents to serve two terms but after FDR flouted that tradition it was codified. The Trump administration showed the need for a lot more constitutional codification but we won’t get it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-03 04:27:45
December 03 2021 04:25 GMT
#67970
And a firm majority on the Supreme Court.

And yes, the US government needs a major overhaul when it comes to rules, politics doesnt play nice in the US anymore, expecting anyone to do whats right has always been a very messy proposition but we've basically abandoned the thought entirely at this point.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Doc.Rivers
Profile Joined December 2011
United States404 Posts
December 03 2021 04:52 GMT
#67971
On December 03 2021 02:35 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2021 02:29 KwarK wrote:
The 2nd amendment isn’t really a thing in a country where possession of a legal firearm is considered justification for summary execution by an agent of the state. The conservative contradiction between their police worship and their second amendment worship can only be reconciled with racism. But there is no real right to bear arms in America. There is often permission to bear arms but it is by no means absolute.

There never was, you had to be part of a well regulated militia. The word "regulated" is within the amendment. And its use was to put down rebellion's that threatened the government not the other way around. It was about protecting America from the europeans and from uprisings within. That is before you even get to what arms meant then and now.

Show nested quote +
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


I agree that the 2A refers to militia service only, but there is plenty of evidence that such service could be against the government rather just in service of it. The revolutionary War was accomplished by means of the militia, after all.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
December 03 2021 12:40 GMT
#67972
--- Nuked ---
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-03 14:22:06
December 03 2021 14:18 GMT
#67973
From whatever side you are on the "does the second amendment require Militia service or is it just qualifying that a militia needs to exist for the state to function" grammar debate the whole argument is moot.

There is no legal or policy based function for the state to raise an organized militia and hasn't done so for decades at this point. The only "Militia" are unspecific unorganized militia or the national guard.

Militias were necessary at the time because it was connected to home ownership that you needed a gun to defend yourself from wild animals and from native Americans that you were going to go genocide with your friends.

To support this gun ownership and attitudes tword gun control are doing down year on year because we're becoming a wage slave based nation that owns nothing and are expected to still be happy.

On December 03 2021 13:52 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2021 02:35 JimmiC wrote:
On December 03 2021 02:29 KwarK wrote:
The 2nd amendment isn’t really a thing in a country where possession of a legal firearm is considered justification for summary execution by an agent of the state. The conservative contradiction between their police worship and their second amendment worship can only be reconciled with racism. But there is no real right to bear arms in America. There is often permission to bear arms but it is by no means absolute.

There never was, you had to be part of a well regulated militia. The word "regulated" is within the amendment. And its use was to put down rebellion's that threatened the government not the other way around. It was about protecting America from the europeans and from uprisings within. That is before you even get to what arms meant then and now.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


I agree that the 2A refers to militia service only, but there is plenty of evidence that such service could be against the government rather just in service of it. The revolutionary War was accomplished by means of the militia, after all.


This is wildly revisionist and wrong on a few levels. The miltia that were "regulated" were specifically suppose to be called up by local governments, the south called up the same militia units even when they rebelled in the same fashion that the north did. The Militia units were as I said before mostly only trusted to genocide native Americans and to kill wild animals until trained by more regular army units. Also Washinton had a whole regular army that he used the militia were unreliable extras in the best of cases.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
December 03 2021 18:28 GMT
#67974
I'm trying not to panic, but the Supreme Court arguments relating to LGBTQIA+ rulings are a nightmare scenario for me. I don't feel safe in this country.
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
Doc.Rivers
Profile Joined December 2011
United States404 Posts
December 03 2021 18:46 GMT
#67975
On December 03 2021 23:18 Sermokala wrote:
From whatever side you are on the "does the second amendment require Militia service or is it just qualifying that a militia needs to exist for the state to function" grammar debate the whole argument is moot.

There is no legal or policy based function for the state to raise an organized militia and hasn't done so for decades at this point. The only "Militia" are unspecific unorganized militia or the national guard.

Militias were necessary at the time because it was connected to home ownership that you needed a gun to defend yourself from wild animals and from native Americans that you were going to go genocide with your friends.

To support this gun ownership and attitudes tword gun control are doing down year on year because we're becoming a wage slave based nation that owns nothing and are expected to still be happy.

Show nested quote +
On December 03 2021 13:52 Doc.Rivers wrote:
On December 03 2021 02:35 JimmiC wrote:
On December 03 2021 02:29 KwarK wrote:
The 2nd amendment isn’t really a thing in a country where possession of a legal firearm is considered justification for summary execution by an agent of the state. The conservative contradiction between their police worship and their second amendment worship can only be reconciled with racism. But there is no real right to bear arms in America. There is often permission to bear arms but it is by no means absolute.

There never was, you had to be part of a well regulated militia. The word "regulated" is within the amendment. And its use was to put down rebellion's that threatened the government not the other way around. It was about protecting America from the europeans and from uprisings within. That is before you even get to what arms meant then and now.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


I agree that the 2A refers to militia service only, but there is plenty of evidence that such service could be against the government rather just in service of it. The revolutionary War was accomplished by means of the militia, after all.


This is wildly revisionist and wrong on a few levels. The miltia that were "regulated" were specifically suppose to be called up by local governments, the south called up the same militia units even when they rebelled in the same fashion that the north did. The Militia units were as I said before mostly only trusted to genocide native Americans and to kill wild animals until trained by more regular army units. Also Washinton had a whole regular army that he used the militia were unreliable extras in the best of cases.


I think the right of revolution is recognized as part of the 2A. If nothing else the 2A says "keep arms" which would seem to protect universal gun ownership (partly as a check against the federal government) although to be sure there existed centralized stores of guns and gun powder when the 2A was written.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11752 Posts
December 03 2021 19:06 GMT
#67976
On December 04 2021 03:28 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm trying not to panic, but the Supreme Court arguments relating to LGBTQIA+ rulings are a nightmare scenario for me. I don't feel safe in this country.


I thought you had a safe way out of that dystopia? Because yes, sadly half of the US are insane fascists who don't think you should exist. Which is a bad thing, but hard to change.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
December 03 2021 22:35 GMT
#67977
On December 04 2021 03:28 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm trying not to panic, but the Supreme Court arguments relating to LGBTQIA+ rulings are a nightmare scenario for me. I don't feel safe in this country.


I haven't been following. What is being said?
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
December 04 2021 12:55 GMT
#67978
On December 04 2021 04:06 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2021 03:28 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm trying not to panic, but the Supreme Court arguments relating to LGBTQIA+ rulings are a nightmare scenario for me. I don't feel safe in this country.


I thought you had a safe way out of that dystopia? Because yes, sadly half of the US are insane fascists who don't think you should exist. Which is a bad thing, but hard to change.

I most likely do, but I'm still working on leaving. I worry immensely for my community
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
December 04 2021 12:59 GMT
#67979
On December 04 2021 07:35 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2021 03:28 plasmidghost wrote:
I'm trying not to panic, but the Supreme Court arguments relating to LGBTQIA+ rulings are a nightmare scenario for me. I don't feel safe in this country.


I haven't been following. What is being said?

Mississippi is arguing that Roe v. Wade unjustly interferes in state's rights. In addition, they're saying the Obergefell decision (gay marriage being legal) and Lawrence v. Texas (same-sex activity being legal) are unjust. If the Court rules in favor of Mississippi, all of those rights go away



https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/live-updates/supreme-court-mississippi-abortion-case-oral-arguments-2021-12-01/
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18854 Posts
December 04 2021 13:08 GMT
#67980
You have cause for concern, no doubt, but even if SCOTUS overrules Roe, the rights at issue in Obergefell and Lawrence don’t just go away. They may be the subject of future litigation, but there’s nowhere near the interest and fervor the way there is with abortion.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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