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Do you think she believes this will help her reelection or does she just not give a fuck any more?
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Sinema’s former aid already works for pharma. That’s the mechanism of that door being open for her. All she cares about is destroying the pharma price controls. Her and Manchin (his daughter is a pharma exec) will both fold once they get full removal of pharma controls.
Honestly dems are huge dummies for caring so much about the pharma stuff. Biden can use exec orders to price fix pharma while he’s in office. Good enough. Get everything else rolling.
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She doesn’t care, she’s cashing out and I’d guess she may not even run again at all.
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Odds are she’s going to be a one term Senator anyways unless they run McSally in AZ again. Might as well shoot for the best exit plan she can.
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I think Sinema can have her cake and eat it too by just cockblocking any pharma reform while still being a reliable dem vote. It is unclear to me what benefits there are from legislating pharma rather than executive orders, other than being the more responsible and long term thing to do. Don't think it is "smart" though.
My prediction: The bill ends up being 2.5T without any pharma restrictions. Keeps all the family stuff but loses all the pharma stuff.
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I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid
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On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid
I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at.
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Do people think Arizona is blue or something? She won by 2.5% in a Democrat midterm year, and Arizona has a thing for senators who are "mavericks" as they like to style themselves.
I've seen it again in the past couple pages, but it really is remarkable that Democrats are so convinced that NOT passing this trash heap of a proposal hurts her re-election chances. She won't be up again until 2024. If progs kill any bill of any size with their intransigence she goes back to AZ saying what she has been saying for months: she supports spending on x and y, but not z.
I have a grudging admiration for how she's doing this. And more humorously, I'm enjoying watching Democrat's deal with their own McCain and Collins types with the narrowest Congressional margins in recent history.
+ Show Spoiler +Which by the way should probably be a sign of CAUTION before trying to go big like they are, but hey whatever
The difference of course is that I, unlike my friends here on thr left, would rather have Susan Collins, the only person able to win a senatw race as a Republican in New England, than a Democrat. Collins can annoy me as much as she wants, better than another Angus King.
McConnell is the similar too, actually. Someone recently said that no matter how annoying McConnell is to conservatives, he's 100x more annoying to Democrats... which I guess is true.
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The difference is Republicans are okay with doing nothing, Democrats generally want Congress to do their job and pass legislation, not be gridlocked into doing nothing.
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Well we know that's not exactly true. It is true that I'd rather gridlock than bad laws in the name of "doing something" but the 1+ trillion infrastructure bill that House progs are holding up got 19 GOP senators. If the idea was for them to "do their jobs and pass legislation" it's pretty obvious who's at fault at the moment.
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On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at.
The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support.
Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds.
www.politico.com
EDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well.
He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks.
www.bostonherald.com
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On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Show nested quote +Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. Show nested quote +He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com
Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board.
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On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board.
I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example.
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On October 02 2021 13:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board. I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example.
Guess we’ll find out! I’m holding off on making judgments until they pass whatever they’re gonna pass. They’ll pass something, just a matter of what. My focus is on everything involving children. Kids lunch’s are a minimum for me. Society is failing children pretty hard right now, most notably in the US. Every person who doesn’t support universal free lunches for kids is failing morally. The other stuff is icing on the cake.
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On October 02 2021 15:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 13:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board. I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example. Guess we’ll find out! I’m holding off on making judgments until they pass whatever they’re gonna pass. They’ll pass something, just a matter of what. My focus is on everything involving children. Kids lunch’s are a minimum for me. Society is failing children pretty hard right now, most notably in the US. Every person who doesn’t support universal free lunches for kids is failing morally. The other stuff is icing on the cake.
I wouldn't call it "cake", let alone call the fundamentally necessary (albeit woefully inadequate) stuff besides feeding children "icing". I'd agree they have to pass something though I doubt if they took out the lunches for kids people would suddenly change from the "pass what you can get" to the "not good enough" camp.
In the cynical political sense It's a good arbitrary line to draw though since it takes a terribly malicious and sadistic person (it is the US so I wouldn't completely rule it out) to remove something so trivial to the cost and can be used as a bludgeon against those that identify the package as a whole contemptibly unacceptable (people that have drawn additional or other lines besides school lunch).
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On October 02 2021 15:48 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 15:24 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 13:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board. I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example. Guess we’ll find out! I’m holding off on making judgments until they pass whatever they’re gonna pass. They’ll pass something, just a matter of what. My focus is on everything involving children. Kids lunch’s are a minimum for me. Society is failing children pretty hard right now, most notably in the US. Every person who doesn’t support universal free lunches for kids is failing morally. The other stuff is icing on the cake. I wouldn't call it "cake", let alone calling the fundamentally necessary (albeit woefully inadequate) stuff besides feeding children "icing". I'd agree they have to pass something though I doubt if they took out the lunches for kids people would suddenly change from the "pass what you can get" to the "not good enough" camp. In the cynical political sense It's a good arbitrary line to draw though since it takes a terribly malicious and sadistic person (it is the US so I wouldn't completely rule it out) to remove something so trivial to the cost and can be used as a bludgeon against those that identify the package as a whole contemptibly unacceptable (people that have drawn additional or other lines besides school lunch).
You’re mistaking sarcastic cynicism for standards. Of course more is needed. But when I look at who is being asked to vote on this, it’s a good result. The people voting are not good. Well some are good of course but not all of them. Fundamentally we have massive culture issues in the country and those people elect people who fit them.
Edit: here is an example of how terrible our culture is. There are a ton of people who hate the idea of free lunches for kids.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-host-martha-maccallum-rails-against-literal-free-lunch-for-hungry-kids
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On October 02 2021 15:53 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 15:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 15:24 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 13:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board. I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example. Guess we’ll find out! I’m holding off on making judgments until they pass whatever they’re gonna pass. They’ll pass something, just a matter of what. My focus is on everything involving children. Kids lunch’s are a minimum for me. Society is failing children pretty hard right now, most notably in the US. Every person who doesn’t support universal free lunches for kids is failing morally. The other stuff is icing on the cake. I wouldn't call it "cake", let alone calling the fundamentally necessary (albeit woefully inadequate) stuff besides feeding children "icing". I'd agree they have to pass something though I doubt if they took out the lunches for kids people would suddenly change from the "pass what you can get" to the "not good enough" camp. In the cynical political sense It's a good arbitrary line to draw though since it takes a terribly malicious and sadistic person (it is the US so I wouldn't completely rule it out) to remove something so trivial to the cost and can be used as a bludgeon against those that identify the package as a whole contemptibly unacceptable (people that have drawn additional or other lines besides school lunch). You’re mistaking sarcastic cynicism for standards. Of course more is needed. But when I look at who is being asked to vote on this, it’s a good result. The people voting are not good. Well some are good of course but not all of them. Fundamentally we have massive culture issues in the country and those people elect people who fit them. Edit: here is an example of how terrible our culture is. There are a ton of people who hate the idea of free lunches for kids. https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-host-martha-maccallum-rails-against-literal-free-lunch-for-hungry-kids
Republicans are nightmare fuel, but I'd imagine (hope) this exclusively Democrat legislation wouldn't bump into that issue. Though with Republicans increasingly trying to revitalize the child labor market the "moderate/centrist" position could very well be "well, the kids have jobs, so they should pay sooommmething" before we know it.
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On October 02 2021 16:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 15:53 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 15:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 15:24 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 13:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board. I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example. Guess we’ll find out! I’m holding off on making judgments until they pass whatever they’re gonna pass. They’ll pass something, just a matter of what. My focus is on everything involving children. Kids lunch’s are a minimum for me. Society is failing children pretty hard right now, most notably in the US. Every person who doesn’t support universal free lunches for kids is failing morally. The other stuff is icing on the cake. I wouldn't call it "cake", let alone calling the fundamentally necessary (albeit woefully inadequate) stuff besides feeding children "icing". I'd agree they have to pass something though I doubt if they took out the lunches for kids people would suddenly change from the "pass what you can get" to the "not good enough" camp. In the cynical political sense It's a good arbitrary line to draw though since it takes a terribly malicious and sadistic person (it is the US so I wouldn't completely rule it out) to remove something so trivial to the cost and can be used as a bludgeon against those that identify the package as a whole contemptibly unacceptable (people that have drawn additional or other lines besides school lunch). You’re mistaking sarcastic cynicism for standards. Of course more is needed. But when I look at who is being asked to vote on this, it’s a good result. The people voting are not good. Well some are good of course but not all of them. Fundamentally we have massive culture issues in the country and those people elect people who fit them. Edit: here is an example of how terrible our culture is. There are a ton of people who hate the idea of free lunches for kids. https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-host-martha-maccallum-rails-against-literal-free-lunch-for-hungry-kids Republicans are nightmare fuel, but I'd imagine (hope) this exclusively Democrat legislation wouldn't bump into that issue. Though with Republicans increasingly trying to revitalize the child labor market the "moderate/centrist" position could very well be "well, the kids have jobs, so they should pay sooommmething" before we know it.
Plenty of places with Democrat senators have a widespread bootstrap philosophy. This is not just a republican issue. A lot of Democrat voters legitimately love capitalism and like the way it functions. Until you fix the voters, can’t fix the senators
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On October 02 2021 16:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 15:53 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 15:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 15:24 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 13:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 11:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2021 07:19 Mohdoo wrote:On October 02 2021 06:22 Zambrah wrote:
I think her theatrics are going to sink her political career, shes made herself into a Manchin but a Manchin that shows contempt through performance like curtsying while thumbs downing a vote, Im in Camp Cashing Out and isnt from a state like WV that might like you for making Democrats look stupid I think she can totally win re-election if bbb passes. People will grumble about pharma but the fact is she'll probably still win. If bbb doesn't pass, sinema is the least of democrat's worries. The whole thing is toast if bbb doesn't pass. Won't even bother paying attention to midterms if bbb doesn't pass. I'll just tune out politics until 2024 and see where we're at. The pharma aspect I'm familiar with is the government being able to negotiate drug prices so I don't think cutting it helps with the pricetag. It also may be the most popular part of the package, so not very sensible to cut it to gain support. Americans support letting the government negotiate drug prices above all the other major priorities in the infrastructure and social spending packages now before Congress, according to a new POLITICO-Harvard poll that suggests health care is at the top of most respondents' minds. www.politico.comEDIT: Rumor is Biden cut the topline below $2.5T as well. He discussed a compromise topline of $1.9 trillion to $2.3 trillion, according to a person in the room, granted anonymity to discuss the talks. www.bostonherald.com Sinema and Manchin don’t give a shit about cost. Manchin tossed 9T to the military. Sinema is a soulless pile of garbage. All they care about is the pharma industry. By harping on the price tag, the clearly most important part of the bill, they are giving democrats the ability to appease them, still get a bunch of money, but eliminate the part they both hate. Neither of them give a rats ass which parts are popular. If Biden and all the others scrap the pharma stuff, Manchin and Sinema will be on board. I do get the impression that those Democrats (and the entire party in practice) being beholden to big pharma will cost people untold sums (and undoubtedly lives) for pharama profits with the ability to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over price being scrapped. However, I don't think that is enough to satisfy Manchin and his sponsors. He's still got at least the coal industry to satiate for example. Guess we’ll find out! I’m holding off on making judgments until they pass whatever they’re gonna pass. They’ll pass something, just a matter of what. My focus is on everything involving children. Kids lunch’s are a minimum for me. Society is failing children pretty hard right now, most notably in the US. Every person who doesn’t support universal free lunches for kids is failing morally. The other stuff is icing on the cake. I wouldn't call it "cake", let alone calling the fundamentally necessary (albeit woefully inadequate) stuff besides feeding children "icing". I'd agree they have to pass something though I doubt if they took out the lunches for kids people would suddenly change from the "pass what you can get" to the "not good enough" camp. In the cynical political sense It's a good arbitrary line to draw though since it takes a terribly malicious and sadistic person (it is the US so I wouldn't completely rule it out) to remove something so trivial to the cost and can be used as a bludgeon against those that identify the package as a whole contemptibly unacceptable (people that have drawn additional or other lines besides school lunch). You’re mistaking sarcastic cynicism for standards. Of course more is needed. But when I look at who is being asked to vote on this, it’s a good result. The people voting are not good. Well some are good of course but not all of them. Fundamentally we have massive culture issues in the country and those people elect people who fit them. Edit: here is an example of how terrible our culture is. There are a ton of people who hate the idea of free lunches for kids. https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-host-martha-maccallum-rails-against-literal-free-lunch-for-hungry-kids Republicans are nightmare fuel, but I'd imagine (hope) this exclusively Democrat legislation wouldn't bump into that issue. Though with Republicans increasingly trying to revitalize the child labor market the "moderate/centrist" position could very well be "well, the kids have jobs, so they should pay sooommmething" before we know it.
The train wreck of how america works is constantly astonishing and horrifying me.
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EPT
