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On June 14 2021 02:08 NrG.Bamboo wrote: It's certainly a weakness of being an umbrella party attempting to move away from the hard lines of the Republicans. On the other side of the aisle is a group with a few very strong stances and no willingness to budge or change, and just about everyone else in the country, no matter how they envision the correct way to make progress, have to band together in opposition. Of course this will cause in-fighting because how the hell are you going to have everyone agree on one agenda to move forward with? There are so many important issues that will inevitably be disagreed upon within the ranks. It's rather unfortunate that we don't have stronger 3rd+ parties, and I wish it were otherwise. Personally I don't identify with either of these two parties, which is one of the reasons I don't get heavily invested in politics; I just read what people think about the state of affairs and then move on. Also, the Republicans have a pretty good reputation for sticking with the narrative of the day for the good of the party. If all of your opponents are willing to jump on whatever crazy train is cruising along, there needs to be a high amount of cohesiveness on your own side if you're going to come out on top.
The US can't have stronger 3rd parties. FPTP leads to a 2 party system and any 3e party that gains steam gets absorbed by one of the big 2 or fractures the vote for 'their' side so that both lose.
On June 14 2021 02:08 NrG.Bamboo wrote: It's certainly a weakness of being an umbrella party attempting to move away from the hard lines of the Republicans. On the other side of the aisle is a group with a few very strong stances and no willingness to budge or change, and just about everyone else in the country, no matter how they envision the correct way to make progress, have to band together in opposition. Of course this will cause in-fighting because how the hell are you going to have everyone agree on one agenda to move forward with? There are so many important issues that will inevitably be disagreed upon within the ranks. It's rather unfortunate that we don't have stronger 3rd+ parties, and I wish it were otherwise. Personally I don't identify with either of these two parties, which is one of the reasons I don't get heavily invested in politics; I just read what people think about the state of affairs and then move on. Also, the Republicans have a pretty good reputation for sticking with the narrative of the day for the good of the party. If all of your opponents are willing to jump on whatever crazy train is cruising along, there needs to be a high amount of cohesiveness on your own side if you're going to come out on top.
The US can't have stronger 3rd parties. FPTP leads to a 2 party system and any 3e party that gains steam gets absorbed by one of the big 2 or fractures the vote for 'their' side so that both lose.
True, I suppose if I had to clarify: I wish our system used ranked ballots to allow other parties a legitimate chance. It's not the fault of other platforms so much as the FPTP method that compels me to "throw away" my vote every 2 years into candidates that will only net about 1% of the pie.
for a country that prides itself with aisles full of choices of various cereals, the lack of actually "good" political choices is absolutely a problem.
big crowded tents are not for everyone. and choosing the lesser of two evils while not without merit... is not a glowing endorsement for democracy in the long run.
Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
I would very much say that i have much better choices in Germany than i would have in the US.
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
I would very much say that i have much better choices in Germany than i would have in the US.
Americans are basically choosing between batshit insane/callous and the rest. I don't envy them.
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
I would very much say that i have much better choices in Germany than i would have in the US.
Americans are basically choosing between batshit insane/callous and the rest. I don't envy them.
I think there might be an inverse relationship between the good one does for the least among us and one's political success.
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
I would very much say that i have much better choices in Germany than i would have in the US.
Americans are basically choosing between batshit insane/callous and the rest. I don't envy them.
I think there might be an inverse relationship between the good one does for the least among us and one's political success.
Cops and politicians are both jobs where it is important for society that only people who don't want the job, do the job.
Is that... Is that real? Or is it like the Onion or some other satire about libertarians?
Not only is this real, one of the candidates at that same convention did in fact get some boos for saying that you shouldn't be allowed to sell heroin to a five year-old
I live libertarians. Nothing reminds me that absolute garbage exists masquerading as people more than a libertarian
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
I would very much say that i have much better choices in Germany than i would have in the US.
Americans are basically choosing between batshit insane/callous and the rest. I don't envy them.
I think there might be an inverse relationship between the good one does for the least among us and one's political success.
Because the ones who do any good expose how much the others aren't doing. It is in the best interest of a great many elected officials to obfuscate how much good we can actually do for ourselves.
On June 15 2021 04:17 Velr wrote: Well... Looking at germanny and plenty of other countries more parties do not automatically give better choices, it just tends to kick out the unfathomably bad, partisan ones.
sure. but what I would like to point out here is that having more choices in the US would be a dramatic shift and actual novelty - maybe even major improvement. in Germany and other countries the novelty factor is completely missing as this has been the norm there for a while and therefore "business as usual" is in full effect.
and politics is a dirty business everywhere... so what else is new?
Is that... Is that real? Or is it like the Onion or some other satire about libertarians?
Not only is this real, one of the candidates at that same convention did in fact get some boos for saying that you shouldn't be allowed to sell heroin to a five year-old
I live libertarians. Nothing reminds me that absolute garbage exists masquerading as people more than a libertarian
They're the best (worst). I get the argument of wanting third parties, but when the third parties have people like this guy, it makes me wary (although I would still want more than two viable options)
The good part is when they have their own party the main parties don't try to woo that voter.
That is definitely a wrong conclusion, in Germany the left is collectively fighting for the same goals, just with different priorities. And the loss of identity from the former largest one led to them adopting more of the other ones, so now the former middle left worker party headed by a millionaire from the conservative wing has announced to make green goals their top priority (because the greens passed them in votes). In part because the conservatives have more or less successfully fished for the middle left for the last two decades, which caused estrangement from the outer right and right libertarian.
That being said it's easier to draw lines when the extreme parties show how badly damaged their voters are and they fish for smaller margins, i.e. if the GOP would have to fight for their middle right more with other middle right parties they would be less tempted to try to get the batshit QAnon people as well because these groups don't think highly of each other.
To be fair the middle is the part that historically the GOP and democrats fight over and Trump was the exception likely caused by the increasing extremity caused by the fall of the classical media.
Is that... Is that real? Or is it like the Onion or some other satire about libertarians?
Not only is this real, one of the candidates at that same convention did in fact get some boos for saying that you shouldn't be allowed to sell heroin to a five year-old
I live libertarians. Nothing reminds me that absolute garbage exists masquerading as people more than a libertarian
They're the best (worst). I get the argument of wanting third parties, but when the third parties have people like this guy, it makes me wary (although I would still want more than two viable options)
The good part is when they have their own party the main parties don't try to woo that voter.
That is definitely a wrong conclusion, in Germany the left is collectively fighting for the same goals, just with different priorities. And the loss of identity from the former largest one led to them adopting more of the other ones, so now the former middle left worker party headed by a millionaire from the conservative wing has announced to make green goals their top priority (because the greens passed them in votes). In part because the conservatives have more or less successfully fished for the middle left for the last two decades, which caused estrangement from the outer right and right libertarian.
That being said it's easier to draw lines when the extreme parties show how badly damaged their voters are and they fish for smaller margins, i.e. if the GOP would have to fight for their middle right more with other middle right parties they would be less tempted to try to get the batshit QAnon people as well because these groups don't think highly of each other.
To be fair the middle is the part that historically the GOP and democrats fight over and Trump was the exception likely caused by the increasing extremity caused by the fall of the classical media.
The GOP leaving the middle ground pre-dates Trump. Don't forget about the tea party.
EPT
